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Volkerball posted:they're occupying a federal building that they took over while its employees were on leave for the holidays. should we just relocate that staff since armed men took over their workplace? maybe build them another building until some other militia comes and takes that one over as well? "we have an active shooter situation in the office. all employees are expected to report to their work stations immediately"
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Jan 6, 2016 00:33
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sparatuvs posted:wtf both of those are real guns. They probably don't actually own a 249. It's probably a mag fed Semi auto. I say probably because some people actually do own these things because they're rich.
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Jan 6, 2016 00:33
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LeoMarr posted:They probably don't actually own a 249. It's probably a mag fed Semi auto. I say probably because some people actually do own these things because they're rich. Or they're cheap replicas. Because the only state the red tip is required is California (I think). http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?products_id=21045
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Jan 6, 2016 00:35
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Radbot posted:I get that you're furiously trying to mold my argument into "kill the nonbelievers". You've failed so far, but you can keep trying if you want. i'm not molding your arguments into anything. you've explicitly stated you want the police to raid these guys largely to correct some racial imbalance in police brutality. i can't even caricature that argument, all i can do is repeat it in wonder. you don't seem to understand what these guys want or why they are there so i don't blame you for not understanding why escalation or a raid is a terrible idea
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Jan 6, 2016 00:37
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ansel autisms posted:
The "resources" are irrelevant. Armed gunman cannot interfere with federal business. That is not a thing you are allowed to do. The importance of the location effects how urgent the situation is, but low importance does not mean there is no situation.
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Jan 6, 2016 00:37
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Volkerball posted:they're occupying a federal building that they took over while its employees were on leave for the holidays. should we just relocate that staff since armed men took over their workplace? maybe build them another building until some other militia comes and takes that one over as well? Let's have more false equivalency between not giving a fight right away to people who are itching for it so they can further radicalize an already dangerous movement, and letting people get off scot-free. Yes, I'm also annoyed that Cliven Bundy seems to have gotten away with his shenanigans but this isn't the same situation and I'm glad they're not going in guns blazing.
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Jan 6, 2016 00:37
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Volkerball posted:The "resources" are irrelevant. Armed gunman cannot interfere with federal business. That is not a thing you are allowed to do. The importance of the location effects how urgent the situation is, but low importance does not mean there is no situation. are you willing to lay down your life so that every american has the right to visit the malheur national wildlife refuge visitor center in the middle of winter an american soldier died for your right to read that glossy four color foldout brochure about birds, son. cherish it
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Jan 6, 2016 00:39
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LeoMarr posted:
Bhaal fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Jan 6, 2016 |
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Jan 6, 2016 00:42
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Vienna Circlejerk posted:Let's have more false equivalency between not giving a fight right away to people who are itching for it so they can further radicalize an already dangerous movement, and letting people get off scot-free. Yes, I'm also annoyed that Cliven Bundy seems to have gotten away with his shenanigans but this isn't the same situation and I'm glad they're not going in guns blazing. I know they aren't getting off scot-free, but they cannot be allowed to stay there indefinitely. They have to be evicted at some point. I don't advocate going in guns blazing. If I didn't think the situation could be resolved without bloodshed, I wouldn't support going in. After their supplies start to dwindle, and they see they don't have support of the people of Oregon or even like minded militias, and aren't going to start their nationwide revolt here, they aren't going to fire the first shot when people show up to evict them.
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Jan 6, 2016 00:44
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Volkerball posted:I know they aren't getting off scot-free, but they cannot be allowed to stay there indefinitely. They have to be evicted at some point. I don't advocate going in guns blazing. If I didn't think the situation could be resolved without bloodshed, I wouldn't support going in. After their supplies start to dwindle, and they see they don't have support of the people of Oregon or even like minded militias, and aren't going to start their nationwide revolt here, they aren't going to fire the first shot when people show up to evict them. The american revolution was started with a small bowl of cotton friend.
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Jan 6, 2016 00:46
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SquadronROE posted:Or they're cheap replicas. Because the only state the red tip is required is California (I think). http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?products_id=21045 You're actually required to have an additional fluorescent band on the trigger guard or grip or whatever now in Cali. Everywhere else though, they're only required for the sale. Afterwards, people generally remove them and a lot of them come with a replacement, black metal one to go on instead.
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Jan 6, 2016 00:46
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LeoMarr posted:They probably don't actually own a 249. It's probably a mag fed Semi auto. I say probably because some people actually do own these things because they're rich. How do they fetishize the military enough to spend time effort and money on a get up like that and somehow miss the crucial fitness part of soldiering ass struggle fucked around with this message at 00:54 on Jan 6, 2016 |
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Jan 6, 2016 00:47
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Popular Thug Drink posted:are you willing to lay down your life so that every american has the right to visit the malheur national wildlife refuge visitor center in the middle of winter If you're in position to be in that raid, you aren't allowed to act on thoughts like this or you are bad at your job and will be relieved of your duties hth. And I wouldn't think like that anyways, because the precedent that armed gangs aren't allowed to interrupt federal business, period, is an important one.
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Jan 6, 2016 00:48
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sparatuvs posted:How do they fetishize the military enough to spend time effort and money on a get up like that and some how miss the crucial fitness part of soldiering HAhahahahahah, physical fitness, that poo poo is HAAAARRRRDD!!!! Fat airsofters are a beautiful sight.
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Jan 6, 2016 00:49
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Volkerball posted:I know they aren't getting off scot-free, but they cannot be allowed to stay there indefinitely. They have to be evicted at some point. I don't advocate going in guns blazing. If I didn't think the situation could be resolved without bloodshed, I wouldn't support going in. After their supplies start to dwindle, and they see they don't have support of the people of Oregon or even like minded militias, and aren't going to start their nationwide revolt here, they aren't going to fire the first shot when people show up to evict them. I agree they have to be evicted eventually if they don't, uh, self-evict, but I really think this is a golden opportunity to let them embarrass not only themselves but the militia movement as a whole with no real help from the feds. The climb in militia movement membership is, in my opinion, something to worry about, and I'm really, really hoping that potential recruits will start associating militias with those dumbasses in Oregon who dwindled down from frostbite and despair before the remaining three or four were run off by some bureaucrats.
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Jan 6, 2016 00:50
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sparatuvs posted:How do they fetishize the military enough to spend time effort and money on a get up like that and some how miss the crucial fitness part of soldiering LARPing.
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Jan 6, 2016 00:51
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I miss GameQuoter. Seriously though this is probably really close to what they did. They're there for the "long haul" with two dozen cans of chicken noodle soup, a bunch of boxes of Mac and cheese, some ramen, a sack of potatoes, flour, and some fruit. That will last less than a week set on "meager."
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Jan 6, 2016 00:53
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SquadronROE posted:Lawl or maybe this I have seen this picture so many times over the years on the internet. He looks so out of shape but the rest looks real. Is this military, airsoft, militia?  Popular Thug Drink posted:i'm not molding your arguments into anything. you've explicitly stated you want the police to raid these guys largely to correct some racial imbalance in police brutality. i can't even caricature that argument, all i can do is repeat it in wonder. you don't seem to understand what these guys want or why they are there so i don't blame you for not understanding why escalation or a raid is a terrible idea this country sheriff isn't SWATing these guys because he's racist. And we know he is because city cops are racist to #BLM and no way are we worse than some loving rednecks" *cries into latte* NO WAY MAN
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Jan 6, 2016 00:53
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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Almost a full page without someone linking the Waco wiki, I feel like that's progress.
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Jan 6, 2016 00:55
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Volkerball posted:If you're in position to be in that raid, you aren't allowed to act on thoughts like this or you are bad at your job and will be relieved of your duties hth. And I wouldn't think like that anyways, because the precedent that armed gangs aren't allowed to interrupt federal business, period, is an important one. yeah but the longer you let this go on the more the protesters discredit themselves, like the year and a half occupation of alcatraz in the sixties
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Jan 6, 2016 00:55
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Grem posted:Almost a full page without someone linking the Waco wiki, I feel like that's progress. http://www.amazon.com/This-Not-Assault-Penetrating-Regarding/dp/0738863424
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Jan 6, 2016 00:56
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Vienna Circlejerk posted:I agree they have to be evicted eventually if they don't, uh, self-evict, but I really think this is a golden opportunity to let them embarrass not only themselves but the militia movement as a whole with no real help from the feds. The climb in militia movement membership is, in my opinion, something to worry about, and I'm really, really hoping that potential recruits will start associating militias with those dumbasses in Oregon who dwindled down from frostbite and despair before the remaining three or four were run off by some bureaucrats. I don't think it's something to worry about as it is, but it's also not something that needs to be escalated. So I agree with the overall thought process of others that we don't want another Ruby Ridge or Waco that empowers groups like that. But for instance, in Ruby Ridge, when the feds went in, their rules of engagement were shoot on sight due to the Weaver family firing first during the last attempt to approach them. That's not acceptable except under rare circumstances, and it's not acceptable here, and is very unlikely to ever be. There's middle ground between Ruby Ridge, and completely ignoring them and sweeping up the mess after they're done. With the FBI presence, it looks like that's what the US is doing.
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Jan 6, 2016 00:56
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Popular Thug Drink posted:yeah but the longer you let this go on the more the protesters discredit themselves, like the year and a half occupation of alcatraz in the sixties yeah but at the same time, the longer you let this go on, the more you discredit the government. so there's a balance there.
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Jan 6, 2016 00:58
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Volkerball posted:yeah but at the same time, the longer you let this go on, the more you discredit the government. so there's a balance there. oh no people who are sympathetic to organized militias upset about BLM range practices might lose faith in the government  as far as i can tell the only people who are really troubled by government inactivity are liberals calling for blood now that the tables have turned. even the pro-rancher militia sympathizer they had on NPR said that the occuption is stupid and these dudes are making the movement look bad
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Jan 6, 2016 01:03
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LeoMarr posted:How militiamen train:  SquadronROE posted:Lawl or maybe this
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Jan 6, 2016 01:03
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I'll also admit that there's a less than virtuous part of me that is enjoying this trainwreck and I want to see just how bad at insurrection these guys are when left to their own devices.
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Jan 6, 2016 01:05
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DeusExMachinima posted:I have seen this picture so many times over the years on the internet. He looks so out of shape but the rest looks real. Is this military, airsoft, militia? Airsoft Probs. Its not like the vest and Pouches are that expensive. Also you can get poo poo like this. http://www.airsoftgi.com/product_info.php?products_id=2617
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Jan 6, 2016 01:06
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Vienna Circlejerk posted:I'll also admit that there's a less than virtuous part of me that is enjoying this trainwreck and I want to see just how bad at insurrection these guys are when left to their own devices. I Really want to see what happens when the "government" just up and leaves. Are they going to raise a gadsden and proclaim independence for oregon?
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Jan 6, 2016 01:09
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Popular Thug Drink posted:oh no people who are sympathetic to organized militias upset about BLM range practices might lose faith in the government It's not about "losing faith." There should be a very clear precedent that walking up in federal buildings with weapons saying we own this now and if anyone says otherwise we are prepared to kill them, is not a totally chill thing to do that nobody is gonna hassle you about.
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Jan 6, 2016 01:10
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I was one of the people who wanted to see the hammer drop on the Bundy ranch militia but in this case it seems like waiting them out is the smart move. These people have not pointed their guns at anyone yet and have spent their time making themselves look like complete fools to everyone. Turning off the lights and letting them exhaust their meager supply of mac and cheese in ice cold conditions is probably the best option here. I can't imagine these chucklefucks are going to last more than a couple weeks at the most before trying to save face and claiming they are leaving at the request of the community. They can always be removed later if necessary, the Feds don't really have a time limit.
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Jan 6, 2016 01:10
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> SNACKS
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Jan 6, 2016 01:12
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Anchor Wanker posted:Airsoft Probs. Its not like the vest and Pouches are that expensive. Also you can get poo poo like this. That would be my guess. It's certainly not military. I doubt there's any military equipped like that in the world that doesn't have a regulation defining the helmet and how to wear it. And any regulation like that is going to preclude people wearing helmet covers and some not, different style helmets, etc. Not to mention dudes boots look cheap as poo poo and no one would let him go to war in those when they look like they'd fall apart in 2 weeks. And of course, fat rear end is not on any sort of PT regimen.
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Jan 6, 2016 01:15
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Apparently a local restaraunt called "The Dog House" is supplying the militiamen with long dogs and short buns.
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Jan 6, 2016 01:15
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Volkerball posted:It's not about "losing faith." There should be a very clear precedent that walking up in federal buildings with weapons saying we own this now and if anyone says otherwise we are prepared to kill them, is not a totally chill thing to do that nobody is gonna hassle you about. yeah it's a shame the statute of limitations on occupuying a federal building is 72 hours. maybe next time
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Jan 6, 2016 01:16
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we're losing sight of the real victors here : the men and women, employed at whatever building this thing is happening at , getting an extra long winter vacation. god bless
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Jan 6, 2016 01:21
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FTFY 
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Jan 6, 2016 01:23
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Ninkobei posted:we're losing sight of the real victors here : the men and women, employed at whatever building this thing is happening at , getting an extra long winter vacation. god bless false flag
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Jan 6, 2016 01:25
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Thump! posted:HAhahahahahah, physical fitness, that poo poo is HAAAARRRRDD!!!! a real reservist 
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Jan 6, 2016 01:26
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Volkerball posted:If you're in position to be in that raid, you aren't allowed to act on thoughts like this or you are bad at your job and will be relieved of your duties hth. And I wouldn't think like that anyways, because the precedent that armed gangs aren't allowed to interrupt federal business, period, is an important one. Just adding on here, I worked a detail last August with one of the tactical teams that staffed the Bundy standoff. They were pissed. Not at the prospect of their lives being jeopardized over some cows, but because they were denied the opportunity to respond to an overt armed challenge to the rule of law in their jurisdiction. They were more than willing to take action - not mag dumping every dumb hick in sight, but confronting and arresting people who were actively obstructing federal business. We have superior resources and tactics. We are willing to use them, even though that does involve personal risk. Public lands law enforcement in the west usually involves some level of risk - I've lost four coworkers in the line of duty, in a plane crash and a landslide. We're willing to accept a relatively high risk profile. The issue here is not the sanctity of an office. That's important, but the real headline issue is the rule of law. The more reasons people have to believe that having a gun means the law doesn't apply to you, the more they will push limits. I am very worried that when I get off winter furlough and go back to my park I am going to check some guys fishing license alone and four hours (on a good day) from backup, and he's going to decide his shotgun means I have no authority. That puts me a very dangerous situation. It also means I view the threat environment in my workplace very differently. I really prefer to be ranger friendly when I contact people (most of whom are armed), chat, gain voluntary compliance with the law, and leave them feeling like my presence enhanced their visit and not entirely sure if they just talked to a cop. Events like this force me to put officer safety at the front of the list, and that makes my contacts with the public a lot less productive, because when someone thinks they're talking to an armed officer who views them as a threat, they tend to get defensive and resentful. What scares me is not the prospect that I might have to confront people who pull this poo poo at my office. I'm pretty willing to stand in front of our door and tell them to go elsewhere, and enforce that if need be. That's what I signed up to do. It's the prospect of there being an increasingly energized population of armed antigovernment types, and a whole lot of question marks coming from my agency's senior leadership.
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Jan 6, 2016 01:30
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Ninkobei posted:we're losing sight of the real victors here : the men and women, employed at whatever building this thing is happening at , getting an extra long winter vacation. god bless But think of all the excrement they'll be scraping and shovelling to get the place back in order.
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Jan 6, 2016 01:30
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