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I bet I could be a single star hunter.
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Jan 6, 2016 04:08
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I'm pretty sure that just about any nen user could pass the hunter exam. Squala could use nen, so therefore he had either learned it after passing the exam or else he learned it on his own which would have let him pass anyway.
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Jan 6, 2016 04:15
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Serious Frolicking posted:I'm pretty sure that just about any nen user could pass the hunter exam. Squala could use nen, so therefore he had either learned it after passing the exam or else he learned it on his own which would have let him pass anyway. I doubt those disabled Nen users from Heaven's Arena could have passed the exam the protagonists took. Plus there's a chance of failing some arbitrary non-combat test, like that cooking exam. When you think about it, Killua was pretty lucky that the first test of the one he passed was just a straight-up brawl.
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Jan 6, 2016 04:29
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Yeah, Tocino and Squala were probably both more "standard" Nen users than what we usually see. Pokkle's another good example of someone who's skilled enough to learn Nen and become a hunter (well, sort of; Killua would have kicked his rear end if they had actually fought, and I don't know how he would have fared against later opponents, but he did learn Nen so he had some level of competence, and he managed the exam prior to that point); his arrows are the sort of thing I'd expect a lot of "normal" people to imagine when they try to think of special abilities, a rainbow-themed series of shots with each color having different properties. Simple, pretty straightforward despite the rainbow theme, not entirely synergistic (he's an Emitter but his elemental arrows probably required Transmutation, which is two steps away), and nowhere near utilizing the full potential of Nen. The personal touches, such as the color equals power bit, probably enhanced it a little, but it didn't take advantage of Nen's many unique quirks and was a pretty standard example of what Nen could do. Additionally, going for Transmutation probably wasn't his best choice; if he had instead employed Manipulation, which is adjacent to Emission, he might have made a more effective ability. Alternatively, some restrictions (such as, say, only being able to use each arrow once until the entire set is expended, or having to gather fired arrows to use that color again, perhaps, for some that come off the top of my head) would have enhanced their power and possibly made them more devastating; compare to his Red Arrow, which just made a completely standard fire on contact. Thematic, perhaps, and probably has some utility, but not particularly effective for combat. A restriction or pledge could have likely gotten him full-on explosions or infernos, despite his lack of synergy with Transmutation, and also made his Orange Arrow, which was entirely Emission and thus at 100% power for his skill level, lightning-fast and devastating on impact rather than merely "pretty fast but still a normal projectile", among other things. Basically, Pokkle's a case study in a simple and unfortunately shallow nen ability, which was a major factor in his capture and unfortunate demise. Though it is impressive he lasted as long as he did, and apparently he and his team gave the soldier ants a fair amount of trouble until Pike and Zazan got him. While his relatively meager talent (he was still struggling with Ren when Killua and Gon had just finished learning the basics, while Hanzo and Kurapika had already learned it well before them) made him overall pretty weak compared to a lot of the characters we've seen, and he was clearly the weakest of the graduates of the 287th exam, he did have legitimate skill with hunting. Unfortunately, he was in completely over his head the moment he entered NGL. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 04:32 on Jan 6, 2016 |
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Jan 6, 2016 04:30
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Serious Frolicking posted:I'm pretty sure that just about any nen user could pass the hunter exam. Squala could use nen, so therefore he had either learned it after passing the exam or else he learned it on his own which would have let him pass anyway. This kinda goes back to what I was saying earlier, thinking about "Strong" versus "Weak" in context. Nen users in general may be more powerful than people who don't know nen, but you also have to consider them within their own bracket. They may be strong compared to most people, but they can still come up short against other, more powerful nen users.
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Jan 6, 2016 04:34
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Speakin' of hunting, I really wish the series experimented with more types of hunting. It did have quite a bit, but it's easy to forget that when like half of the series was dedicated to Monster Hunting. Yorknew was hunting for an item (Greed Island) and criminals (the Troupe), Greed Island is like treasure hunting, I guess? My favorite examples of hunting were Gon stealing the badge from Hisoka and Ging's manipulation of the rest of the Zodiacs during the early stage of the Election Arc, where he pretty much predicts what they (his prey) will do and figures out how to get his rules for the election selected, even adding in an option that he willingly concedes (and was never planning on using) in order to get them to swallow the bait. Both Gon and Ging displayed an incredibly ability to anticipate their prey's behavior (Gon knew Hisoka was gonna kill someone) and used it to succeed in their mission.
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Jan 6, 2016 04:35
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Roland Jones posted:
I dunno, Gon's abilities are pretty simple and seem to work out well for him. The downside to having all those restrictions and poo poo is that you're setting yourself up to be completely owned if someone else understands your abilities. With something simple like Gon's, you don't have to worry about that.
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Jan 6, 2016 04:38
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Gon's also an enhancer though.
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Jan 6, 2016 04:42
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Roland Jones posted:Anyway, the clear worst nen ability was Cheetu's crossbow. The projectile was slower than he is, and the claw, while possibly having extra qualities, probably wasn't much more dangerous than his own nen-enhanced claws. It, at least for the person who had it, is possibly the most useless thing we've seen from nen.
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Jan 6, 2016 04:49
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Ytlaya posted:I dunno, Gon's abilities are pretty simple and seems to work out well for him. Well, that's part of Enhancement. Enhancement is useful because it doesn't need that much fancy stuff to be scarily effective (and even then, Gon has put in some limits, like "first comes rock"; he has to do that, even if he doesn't consciously consider it a limit, and if he stopped doing that he'd probably lose a lot of power, which we saw Knuckle exploiting the moment he figured it out). Emission, and really most of the categories, are less straightforward generally. Though, a better "simple" Emission ability, I suppose, would be Franklin's machine gun fingers. He's a Troupe member though, and several steps beyond most people. Also, he cut off his own fingertips for that. Momomo posted:I'm still not sure what "the projectile is slower than he is" part really means. I mean sure, that's a con, but it's still a projectile you can use to your advantage. It means that, anything he could hit with a projectile, he could just run up to and kill rather than shoot with a piddly dart (as we saw, it just kind of bounced off of Morel's pipe, so it wasn't that powerful). Conversely, anything that can avoid him he doesn't have a chance in hell of hitting with the crossbow either. The range of things where the projectile is a threat and he can't/shouldn't just get in and tear it apart is really, really tiny, so the ability brought next to nothing to his repertoire. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Jan 6, 2016 |
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Jan 6, 2016 04:49
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Serious Frolicking posted:I'm pretty sure that just about any nen user could pass the hunter exam. Squala could use nen, so therefore he had either learned it after passing the exam or else he learned it on his own which would have let him pass anyway. As Hisoka commented during the Election Arc, most hunters ain't that special. I mean, something like 1/5th lose their license within a year of getting it, even.
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Jan 6, 2016 05:02
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Genocyber posted:As Hisoka commented during the Election Arc, most hunters ain't that special. I mean, something like 1/5th lose their license within a year of getting it, even. Well, part of that is that not every person who passes the exam learns Nen; it's considered an unofficial "real" end to one's exam, according to Wing (or someone, but I think it was Wing), after all. Others probably do things like sell their license to be rich for the rest of their lives, etc. But, yeah, despite how hard the exam is, just passing it doesn't make you exceptional by the standards of what hunters or Nen users have to deal with, it compared to an average human being. And as Pokkle, Tocino, and so on have shown, that just doesn't cut it sometimes.
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Jan 6, 2016 05:04
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I don't think Pokkle's ability involved transmutation, at least not significantly. They were color-coded, sure, but that's not a huge investment compared to something like Castro's clones. He basically just shot bullets (arrows) out of his fingers, and wasn't all that great at it. It's a reflection of his mediocrity in general, not of his lack of creativity.
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Jan 6, 2016 05:51
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Genocyber posted:As Hisoka commented during the Election Arc, most hunters ain't that special. I mean, something like 1/5th lose their license within a year of getting it, even. Passing the Hunter's exam just shows that you're bare minimum physically/mentally capable to have a chance in the world of hunting. Being able to use nen just means that you're bare minimum "magically" capable to have a chance in the world of hunting. As a result, you don't actually pass the real exam until you can do both and that is similarly just an indication that you are truly base level. Poggle probably would have eventually worked out the flaws in his technique, he just never got the chance. Gon's rock paper scissors is similar, except he has crazy potential and power so his first attempt at Nen has kick. Killua in contrast thought out his first attempt at creating a technique, drew on his past without just jumping at something he liked, and came up with a way more versatile and useful technique. Hopefully when Gon gets his Nen back he has to come up with a new way of using Nen. I liked him using his fishing pole as an improvised weapon way more than simply punching things.
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Jan 6, 2016 05:53
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Clarste posted:I don't think Pokkle's ability involved transmutation, at least not significantly. They were color-coded, sure, but that's not a huge investment compared to something like Castro's clones. He basically just shot bullets (arrows) out of his fingers, and wasn't all that great at it. It's a reflection of his mediocrity in general, not of his lack of creativity. Making his arrow fire was definitely Transmutation; changing your aura to other substances or things, like electricity or fire, is Transmutation. Which, again, is why it was pretty mediocre and just a normal fire rather than anything particularly useful; he either needed something to boost it, or a category that wasn't so far from his personal type, to really be effective there. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 06:38 on Jan 6, 2016 |
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Jan 6, 2016 06:23
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That dodgeball game was radical
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Jan 6, 2016 08:15
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Clarste posted:I don't think Pokkle's ability involved transmutation, at least not significantly. They were color-coded, sure, but that's not a huge investment compared to something like Castro's clones. He basically just shot bullets (arrows) out of his fingers, and wasn't all that great at it. It's a reflection of his mediocrity in general, not of his lack of creativity. Don't go calling Pokkle mediocre, I bet he'd gently caress you AND your dad and even all your dad's friends up in a fight.
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Jan 6, 2016 08:23
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Probably true. Hunters are professional badasses after all.
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Jan 6, 2016 08:48
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Ytlaya posted:Don't go calling Pokkle mediocre, I bet he'd gently caress you AND your dad and even all your dad's friends up in a fight. He only became a Hunter because Killua freaked out and killed someone.
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Jan 6, 2016 09:19
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Kild posted:He only became a Hunter because Killua freaked out and killed someone. Still mad that Bodero was denied his Hunter license and I will never forgive Killua.
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Jan 6, 2016 09:21
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:Still mad that Bodero was denied his Hunter license and I will never forgive Killua. Also, you know, he was murdered in cold blood for no reason. I mean, not getting his license is sort of a posthumous insult, unless the Chairman decided to be respectful I guess (I don't remember that detail though so I kind of doubt it), but, I think his being dead probably matters to him more. Or would, were he not, you know, dead. And yeah, were it not for Killua's killing Bodoro then the most likely failures were Pokkle and Leorio. As I mentioned, he's skilled, but he's not on the exceptional level of so many others we've seen. Tangent, I really want to see Hanzo again sometime. He was the other person who learned Nen before the main two, he was just generally super-skilled and strong (if occasionally really dumb) during the test, and he was pretty dang funny while also occasionally rather cool. I wonder what he's been up to since we last saw him. Not counting his brief election appearances, I mean. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 10:23 on Jan 6, 2016 |
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Jan 6, 2016 10:20
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Roland Jones posted:Also, you know, he was murdered in cold blood for no reason. I mean, not getting his license is sort of a posthumous insult, unless the Chairman decided to be respectful I guess (I don't remember that detail though so I kind of doubt it), but, I think his being dead probably matters to him more. Or would, were he not, you know, dead. Bodero was just a cool old dude who refused to give up against Hisoka until Hisoka presumably threatened to cut off a limb or something. I liked him. Makes me wonder what Hisoka whispered to Kurapika. Probably something about the Phantom Troups I guess. Yeah, even Killua acknowledged that Hanzo was stronger than him. I fuckin' loved the guy and it sucks that we don't get to see him again.
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Jan 6, 2016 10:27
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I like the theory that Hisoka told Bodero if he didn't surrender he'd hurt the kids (meaning Gon and Killua). Bodero mentioned during his interview with Netero that he didn't want to fight either of them due to them being children, so that's my guess.
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Jan 6, 2016 10:31
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Hanzo was pretty much the star of the exam really. He was stronger than both Gon and Killua, and really most people there besides Hisoka, he placed well in pretty much every test, and just generally was always at or near the top. Heck, he even knew what sushi was. Sadly outside of his brief appearances during the election, he hasn't been seen at all post-exam but for the mention that he learned Nen faster than the heroes. And yeah, given Bodoro's code Hisoka probably threatened to do something heinous to get him to give in easily. To Kurapika, meanwhile, it was about the Troupe; he brought that up during Yorknew, if I recall correctly.
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Jan 6, 2016 10:32
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I was rereading a part of Greed Island earlier today and Hisoka covering up the fact that he met the Troupe by applying his powers on the book was so loving genius. It's so simple but so devious.Bad Seafood posted:I like the theory that Hisoka told Bodero if he didn't surrender he'd hurt the kids (meaning Gon and Killua). That's another valid guess.
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Jan 6, 2016 10:36
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Roland Jones posted:Hanzo was pretty much the star of the exam really. He was stronger than both Gon and Killua, and really most people there besides Hisoka, he placed well in pretty much every test, and just generally was always at or near the top. Heck, he even knew what sushi was. Sadly outside of his brief appearances during the election, he hasn't been seen at all post-exam but for the mention that he learned Nen faster than the heroes. I don't think he was stronger than Killua. Killua was basically saying Gon was bad for not being able to take him the whole time.
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Jan 6, 2016 12:15
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Kild posted:I don't think he was stronger than Killua. Killua was basically saying Gon was bad for not being able to take him the whole time. Post-exam when Killua and Gon have met up again, Killua puts Hanzo's strength above his own. He thinks he's being modest, but still.
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Jan 6, 2016 12:27
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Roland Jones posted:Making his arrow fire was definitely Transmutation; changing your aura to other substances or things, like electricity or fire, is Transmutation. Which, again, is why it was pretty mediocre and just a normal fire rather than anything particularly useful; he either needed something to boost it, or a category that wasn't so far from his personal type, to really be effective there. Not really, all Hatsus draw from different categories. The main point of a fire arrow is still that you can shoot it, so it suits the Emitter type just fine.
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Jan 6, 2016 12:28
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e X posted:Not really, all Hatsus draw from different categories. The main point of a fire arrow is still that you can shoot it, so it suits the Emitter type just fine. Yes, really. It's why Kurapika needs to be in Emperor Time to use his healing chain; while it's still a conjured chain, his power in Enhancement is not enough to heal himself when he's a Conjurer; he needs his Enhancement boost (and, you know, all the other boosts) from Emperor Time to use the healing chain, and his pinky chain as well since it has Manipulation and it's also separated from him permanently post-use so it's emitted technically I think as well. That's not the only example, but I think it's one of the better ones. Kastro's double is another, since it's explicitly stated to be both Conjuration and Manipulation, two non-adjacent categories. Neither of which were his primary, as well, which resulted in compound problems and overwhelmed him. Just because your ability fits your primary category in one aspect doesn't mean its other aspects using other categories doesn't matter. The Transmutation aspect of Pokkle's arrows, the fire, is weak, because he's not a Transmuter. An Emitter can't just say "I want to shoot elemental projectiles" and be excellent at it because he's good at Emission, because he needs ways to shore up his weaknesses in Transmutation, just as a Conjurer can't just create an item to make themselves stronger; that would require Enhancement as well, which they're not great at, and would require extra effort or conditions on their part. Edit: Tangent from Kurapika, I wonder when we're going to see his index finger chain in action. We've seen the other four, but the fifth has yet to be seen, and I wonder what utility or ability it could provide. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 12:42 on Jan 6, 2016 |
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Jan 6, 2016 12:39
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Y'know, despite being super dorky, I think I prefer Nen chat to Nasu/Type-Moon power levels minutiae.
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Jan 6, 2016 13:03
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I don't know much about the Nasuverse or Type-Moon or whatever. I think there's a guy who can kill anything by cutting it because he has Eyes of Death Perception or something? I might be thinking of something else.
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Jan 6, 2016 13:06
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Serious Frolicking posted:Repentance? Nah. Gon wasn't thinking of anything but how much he wanted to kill Pitou by then. He threw away his future, friends and responsibilities, but not because he thought it would make up for not being able to save Kite. Gon got so incredibly angry that all he cared about was venting that anger, meaning it was pure self-gratification. 
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Jan 6, 2016 13:44
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Ytlaya posted:On a side note, I was thinking about Shizuku's nen ability and it is actually more powerful for single combat that it might seem at a glance. If she manages to break your skin even once without you instantly covering it/bandaging it up, she can just suck out all your blood like in her fight with Pike. Also, for a comedy option couldn't she suck off all your clothes? My favourite thing so far is that HxH has avoided the trap where you have these essentially instant-kill abilities that can be avoided by just being Nennier than your opponent.
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Jan 6, 2016 14:13
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Arkeus posted:The reason he wanted to kill him is pretty clearly 'It was my fault': Yeah, but the conclusion he came to was to kill Pitou instead of himself. So, he obviously didn't blame himself that much! As for nen users being able to pass the exam, even the most basic level of reinforcement would be a huge advantage. There are tests of perception, but almost all of those are backed up by physical strength requirements. Then there are the competitive parts, where having a mysterious power that others wouldn't be able to perceive at all would almost guarantee victory. Just firing some piddly little emission ball would be very effective against a regular person. gimme the GOD DAMN candy fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Jan 6, 2016 |
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Jan 6, 2016 15:07
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Oh yeah, the Nen "baptisms" on the 200th floor of Heaven's Tower are basically just smacking a person with a Nen attack. That's what maimed the three non-Hisoka antagonists there, just being hit by basic Nen. Another example is how hosed up Gon got getting hit by a Nen-infused top when he took his aura down to better sense and dodge them. Or, for a later arc, Franklin shooting up the auction-goers; while I'm sure he'd still hurt a Nen user, given his presumed strength, they probably wouldn't get obliterated the way that crowd was. A Nen user who wants to hurt a person who doesn't have their own Nen defenses would annihilate them.
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Jan 6, 2016 15:45
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See, the hunter's exam isn't really designed to keep nen users out. It is a method for finding exceptional individuals who can then learn nen and go on to achieve great things. If a person who got there without being a hunter wants a license why should the hunter organization mind?
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Jan 6, 2016 15:55
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Roland Jones posted:Oh yeah, the Nen "baptisms" on the 200th floor of Heaven's Tower are basically just smacking a person with a Nen attack. That's what maimed the three non-Hisoka antagonists there, just being hit by basic Nen. Another example is how hosed up Gon got getting hit by a Nen-infused top when he took his aura down to better sense and dodge them. Or, for a later arc, Franklin shooting up the auction-goers; while I'm sure he'd still hurt a Nen user, given his presumed strength, they probably wouldn't get obliterated the way that crowd was. A Nen user who wants to hurt a person who doesn't have their own Nen defenses would annihilate them. He ripped through a nen user who was using nen to defend himself.
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Jan 6, 2016 16:06
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Wark Say posted:Y'know, despite being super dorky, I think I prefer Nen chat to Nasu/Type-Moon power levels minutiae. Type Moon poo poo is based on pen & paper RPG logic. Everything has ranks and a ratings, and get bonuses/penalties against other stuff. That's why you get into weird rear end arguments that X should destroy Y because it is a higher rank but actually doesn't because X is really just a bad copy and Y has a bonus against X-type attack. Fate, in particular, is all based around; "Here are the rules. And here is why none of them loving matter because there are a billion exceptions to all of them."
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Jan 6, 2016 17:47
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Serious Frolicking posted:Yeah, but the conclusion he came to was to kill Pitou instead of himself. So, he obviously didn't blame himself that much! He did choose to kill himself though, that's why he made that vow and got Adult!Gon. He even flat out says so to Killua, how it feels good to die with Pitou for Kaito.
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Jan 6, 2016 18:26
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Thanks to this thread I started watching Hunter x Hunter 2011. (I've already read the manga.) I'm on ep 14 right now, and I'd forgot that during the Hunter Exam Gon was super pumped that he would get to fight Hisoka during the steal-the-numbertags part. That's... That's not really a good thing, Gon... 
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