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As someone mentioned above star killer literally becomes a star. So it is truly a Death Star. Previous incarnations will now be referred to as " laser moons"
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Jan 6, 2016 18:29
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corn in the fridge posted:At least since they blew up a death star in this movie we shouldn't have to deal with another one in the next two movies, right?? Episode 8's superweapon will be privatized prisons.
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Jan 6, 2016 18:30
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We'll probably get Death Starkiller II in Ep. IX, but like ironically or something since Trevorow directing it.
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Jan 6, 2016 18:30
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mlmp08 posted:True. Which is why Han never got back in a freighter and eyeballed light-speed suborbital entry to a super weapon. Or why Vader near his fifties or so didn't personally fly a specia TIE fighter. I think Vader's only in his mid 40s (TPM is like 34 BBY?) but it would be funny to see Luke become the next Darth Vader.
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Jan 6, 2016 18:30
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mlmp08 posted:True. Which is why Han never got back in a freighter and eyeballed light-speed suborbital entry to a super weapon. Or why Vader near his fifties or so didn't personally fly a specia TIE fighter. Luke's value isn't as a solider who can blow up superweapons (as we see, the Resistance already has people who are up to that task). Luke's value is as the moral center of this universe, someone who can reestablish the Jedi (because someone apparently still thinks that's a good idea lol), and maybe fix things between Leia and her son. These are the blanks that I'm filling in anyway.
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Jan 6, 2016 18:34
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Raxivace posted:We'll probably get Death Starkiller II in Ep. IX, but like ironically or something since Trevorow directing it. *In Seinfeld voice* "Why don't they make the whole death star out of the black box material?"
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Jan 6, 2016 18:35
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jivjov posted:It's a superweapon. At no point is it definitively called "a Death Star" except by one person who is immediately corrected. Actually: It's a base that houses a superweapon. 
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Jan 6, 2016 18:38
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Why didn't all the fighters just hyperspace through the shields? I mean, they have astromechs.
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Jan 6, 2016 18:40
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greatn posted:Why didn't all the fighters just hyperspace through the shields? I mean, they have astromechs. They may not have had concrete intelligence/data on the surface of the planet, so they probably weren't willing to risk the last of the Resistance fighters on a few meters. Let the best pilot in the history of the galaxy eyeball it.
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Jan 6, 2016 18:42
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greatn posted:Why didn't all the fighters just hyperspace through the shields? I mean, they have astromechs. The Falcon has an advanced enough navcomputer that it can do it, not all ships can do it for the same reason that they can't all make the Kessell run in under 12 parsecs. 
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Jan 6, 2016 18:43
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My argument against Dexter's Diner cannot be undone by something like "Dusting Crops" or a vulture, because as I have said I have no issue with the idea of diners in star wars. It is the presentation of them that is at question. Had Luke got in a literal crop duster, and flown off back to home, like a blatant reference to Independence Day, I would probably be annoyed by it. That so far this is the only thing from the OT which anyone seems to think compares to Dexter's Diner makes me feel like my argument against space johnny rockets is pretty strong. Edit: Dexter is not even an ex-con. His diner is in the sahdow of the jedi temple, its on the surface, the property values must be enormous. Its made of the same chrome as Amidala's ship. He is no more an ex-con than Obi-wan is a penniless monk. They are both pretending. greatn posted:Why didn't all the fighters just hyperspace through the shields? I mean, they have astromechs. I would think because they didnt want to risk all of their pilots/ships by having them crash into the mountain
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Jan 6, 2016 18:44
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Someone sure cares a lot about being right.
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Jan 6, 2016 18:45
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greatn posted:Why didn't all the fighters just hyperspace through the shields? I mean, they have astromechs. I don't think X-Wings handle slamming against the ground and through trees as well as the Falcon.
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Jan 6, 2016 18:45
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How do you even fit a hyperdrive on to an X-Wing?? It makes no sense!
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Jan 6, 2016 18:45
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Frackie Robinson posted:Palpatine constantly dunking on the Jedi, the Senate, and everyone he encounters is one element of the prequels that everyone should be able to appreciate regardless of their feelings about them overall. Even RLM gives Palpatine his due. I love how he's this master manipulator living a whole double life for decades but when it comes to ruining the Jedi he mostly does with the truth, or by turning their own beliefs against them.
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Jan 6, 2016 18:46
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Raxivace posted:We'll probably get Death Starkiller II in Ep. IX, but like ironically or something since Trevorow directing it. Super Death Galaxy
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Jan 6, 2016 18:46
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Jerkface posted:My argument against Dexter's Diner cannot be undone by something like "Dusting Crops" or a vulture, because as I have said I have no issue with the idea of diners in star wars. It is the presentation of them that is at question. Had Luke got in a literal crop duster, and flown off back to home, like a blatant reference to Independence Day, I would probably be annoyed by it. That so far this is the only thing from the OT which anyone seems to think compares to Dexter's Diner makes me feel like my argument against space johnny rockets is pretty strong. The OT is a patch-work of references and homages, we're just all used to associating them with Star Wars rather than their original sources or inspirations. I do see what you mean, to some extent. The Diner is probably the most blatant real-world reference to something from real life rather than from other fictional settings or tropes. Besides the basics like English speaking humans, etc.
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Jan 6, 2016 18:48
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Lord Krangdar posted:I love how he's this master manipulator living a whole double life for decades but when it comes to ruining the Jedi he mostly does with the truth, or by turning their own beliefs against them. It's what he gets off on. Everyone, good or evil, loves to see a hypocrite exposed and brought low.
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Jan 6, 2016 18:54
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Lord Krangdar posted:The Diner is probably the most blatant real-world reference to something from real life rather than from other fictional settings or tropes. Hey buddy... wanna smoke some Deathsticks?!
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Jan 6, 2016 18:55
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Frackie Robinson posted:It's what he gets off on. Everyone, good or evil, loves to see a hypocrite exposed and brought low. Wait - important question: When Mace Windu deflected the force lightning from Palpatine back at him, he turned into a wrinkly old demon man. Was Palpatine's true form revealed by this action, or was he simply disfigured by it?
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Jan 6, 2016 18:56
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FutonForensic posted:Hey buddy... wanna smoke some Deathsticks?! Yeah, but that's like how a lightsaber is akin to a sword. What he's talking about would be more like "wanna smoke some Kools?" Red posted:Was Palpatine's true form revealed by this action, or was he simply disfigured by it? Both.
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Jan 6, 2016 18:59
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Red posted:Wait - important question: When Mace Windu deflected the force lightning from Palpatine back at him, he turned into a wrinkly old demon man. I always assumed the former, because we never saw the lightning have that effect on Luke or anyone else.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:00
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jivjov posted:It's a superweapon. At no point is it definitively called "a Death Star" except by one person who is immediately corrected.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:08
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Frackie Robinson posted:Luke's value isn't as a solider who can blow up superweapons (as we see, the Resistance already has people who are up to that task). Luke's value is as the moral center of this universe, someone who can reestablish the Jedi (because someone apparently still thinks that's a good idea lol), and maybe fix things between Leia and her son. These are the blanks that I'm filling in anyway. This. The Starkiller is a sideshow, and is mainly characterization for the First Order and the Resistance. The Empire cosplayers are building a Death Star and the Rebellion cosplayers are blowing it up. It's what they do. It's almost like a cargo cult kind of thing. It's definitely not as tense as the Death Star battle in ANH even though it employs some of the same tricks ("The weapon will fire in 30 seconds!") Mainly because the focus is on the lightsaber duel (which for me, was as tense as all other lightsaber duels, which is good.) In this way it's more of a remake of Return of the Jedi's battle, with Poe filling in for Lando and Wedge. (or The Phantom Menace with Poe filling in for Anakin hurrrr) The Starkiller was created to give a sense of urgency to the third act, because otherwise they'd actually find Luke. That would be a weird climax. Would you have old Luke dodging orbital bombardment or fighting all the Knights of Ren at once? While that would be really cool, it leaves nothing to do for Han, Finn, Rey, or Poe. It would be the movie equivalent of a video game escort mission, where the person you're protecting is either frustratingly incompetent or so invincible that you don't need to do anything. That battle would end the three movie trilogy right there. Death Stars are comfortable and meaty, and definitely safe as everyone has said. But that makes them ideal for bolting on volatile concepts like major character deaths and experimental lightsaber duels. And this Death Star is different enough to be interesting, as well. It's like they skipped the orbital component and just hollowed out Endor itself. "It's more machine now than planet, twisted and evil." It's also different in its destruction; it's not a colossal explosion, it's an implosion that restores what was corrupted or stolen - the sun. It's an outward manifestation of what Han was trying to do with Kylo Ren, except it succeeded. There is also no emphasis on the destruction of the troops on the planet, or on Tarkin blowing up. We know that Tarkin escapes with his pal Vader - these are young villains that can be redeemed, not old fogeys who deserve divine justice.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:10
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I just hope there are some credible bad guys (read: old white dudes) who are the real power behind these Neo Nazi shitheads we meet in TFA.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:12
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There's an old white dude behind it but his eyes are slightly far apart and he has a cat nose.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:13
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There are live snakes and lizards in ESB. Like straight from the zoo. But no a diner is too far Lucas.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:16
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Soggy Cereal posted:The Starkiller was created to give a sense of urgency to the third act, because otherwise they'd actually find Luke. That would be a weird climax. Would you have old Luke dodging orbital bombardment or fighting all the Knights of Ren at once? While that would be really cool, it leaves nothing to do for Han, Finn, Rey, or Poe. It would be the movie equivalent of a video game escort mission, where the person you're protecting is either frustratingly incompetent or so invincible that you don't need to do anything. That battle would end the three movie trilogy right there. I agree with most of what you're saying about the reasoning for Starkiller, but when Han and Finn go to the Imperial base it's mostly about rescuing Rey anyway. The third act could unfold pretty much the same, just without cutting back to Poe and the other starfighters. Between Han's death and the lightsaber fight there would still be plenty of climax to go around. If anything it would be nice if those moments had a little more time to breathe. Would it be kind of an intimate, small stakes ending for a Star Wars movie? Yeah, but so was Empire Strikes Back. I don't think Luke needed to come in earlier than he did, I just think it should have mattered more when we finally go to him.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:21
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Red posted:Actually: It's a base that houses a superweapon. One thing I wondered during this scene is of that little hologram is supposed to be the death star 1 or the death star 2, because the second one was much bigger.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:21
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El Burbo posted:One thing I wondered during this scene is of that little hologram is supposed to be the death star 1 or the death star 2, because the second one was much bigger. Its gotta be the first one; its a complete sphere and the Death Star II was destroyed before its completion.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:25
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Why do the Death Star plans in RoTJ show the death star half-complete? Don't "plans" by definition usually show the finished product? It would be like going to the trouble of making a scale model of a three-quarters complete Freedom Tower.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:27
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jivjov posted:Its gotta be the first one; its a complete sphere and the Death Star II was destroyed before its completion. Well then, Starkiller is less impressive.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:29
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I'm sorry laser moon 2 was complete. This is canonical. The emperor said it and was not contradicted by Vader.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:31
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Lord Krangdar posted:The OT is a patch-work of references and homages, we're just all used to associating them with Star Wars rather than their original sources or inspirations. When TFA comes out in China, it'll be Chinese speaking humans. Dex's is jarring because a 1950's style diner does not exist in a vacuum. There were economic and social factors that made those specific style restaurants possible, chiefly among them trains and highways. Diners look like diners because they were manufactured in a factory and delivered to their happy four-armed frog proprietors via highways. They were also made to look like train cars. Neither trains nor highways appear to exist in the Star Wars universe. I mean, at least make it float or something. The architecture has absolutely nothing to do with the Star Wars universe. It's like sticking a bunch of Sand People in a Best Buy and saying it's not weird.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:34
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euphronius posted:There are live snakes and lizards in ESB. Like straight from the zoo. But no a diner is too far Lucas. How can jerkface gore argue against diners when he is in fact made of snakes?
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Jan 6, 2016 19:41
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Frackie Robinson posted:Why do the Death Star plans in RoTJ show the death star half-complete? Don't "plans" by definition usually show the finished product? It would be like going to the trouble of making a scale model of a three-quarters complete Freedom Tower. Did we ever see the plans for the Death Star II? There was a hologram of the current state of the Endor system (including the partially complete Death Star II), but unless I'm not remembering something, we only ever saw "the plans" for the original.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:48
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Krispy Kareem posted:Dex's is jarring because a 1950's style diner does not exist in a vacuum. There were economic and social factors that made those specific style restaurants possible, chiefly among them trains and highways. Diners look like diners because they were manufactured in a factory and delivered to their happy four-armed frog proprietors via highways. They were also made to look like train cars. Neither trains nor highways appear to exist in the Star Wars universe. I get that, but you can apply that same line of thinking to many elements of the setting, starting with the very basics. Humans didn't evolve in a vacuum either, yet there they are in a galaxy far far away. Swords and sword fighting arose in certain cultural/historical contexts on Earth, so did Jazz music, so did monks.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:48
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R2 uploads the first laser moon plans right in the middle of ANH. You can't miss it.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:50
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euphronius posted:R2 uploads the first laser moon plans right in the middle of ANH. You can't miss it. As you can see, my young apprentice, your friends have failed. Now witness the firepower of this fully ARMED and OPERATIONAL laser moon!
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Jan 6, 2016 19:51
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jivjov posted:Did we ever see the plans for the Death Star II? There was a hologram of the current state of the Endor system (including the partially complete Death Star II), but unless I'm not remembering something, we only ever saw "the plans" for the original. A lot of Bothans died to bring them what information they had, Jesus Christ, have some respect for the dead.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:52
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