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Luck of the draw, I guess  The people I've met and played with were super chill with me asking questions about really obscure stuff or taking time to check the rulebook multiple times.I think I'd do a pretty good job at teaching, if/when I get better, because of how much ASL is a thinking game. I should try to do another solo game again...
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Jan 6, 2016 18:20
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Do Not Resuscitate posted:What do you guys think the best solitaire wargames out there are? I like Warfighter, Thunderbolt/Apache Leader, I'd want to give Field Commander: Napoleon another go, The Hunters is fun, B-17 Queen of the Skies is fun. Granted, at least 3 of those are basically choose your own adventures where you roll to see what happens next. I don't know if they're challenging games, but they make for good narratives. The slighty-serious, slighty-jokey answer is a big WW2 strategic game like A World at War, Third Reich, World in Flames, Unconditional Surrender, etc. You can spend months learning and rules and playing out the entire war, and they generally have no hidden information so they're fine to play solitaire. To see how fun that can be, just check out Calandale's youtube channel! Especially him playing A World at War, if you want to see what misery looks like. (I'm pretty salty on AWAW myself but that's a rant for another time).
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Jan 6, 2016 18:31
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Luck of the draw, I guess I really don't want this to get lost in the shuffle - these were all good people. None of them were assholes, or snippy, or anything. They just kept trying to start slow, but got notably impatient and sped everything up much too fast. The sorts that think if they explain 1/50th of a complex subject slowly for the first 5 minutes, that you will then be able to pick up the remaining 49/50ths in the next five minutes after that. Again, it's not their fault, and they're not being bad people. But honestly, ASL is something where, if you're learning it from other people, is going to be learned over a number of games. Starting someone off in a scenario that involves the Japanese and trucks, and kind of popping through vehicle overrun rules inside of a couple of minutes really means you're more interested in trying to play a game than teaching someone. Which is fine, but you probably should not expect the person to learn much (or not get frustrated with the result, as the game becomes a meaningless jumble of quickly stated unknown terms, as opposed to an actual enjoyable learning experience). (I'm also not saying I would do much better at teaching it. But I did find, contrary to common wisdom, that I it was much easier for me to learn ASL by simply sitting down and reading the rulebook and several of the very good examples of play that are out there than trying to learn it live with other actual humans.) SlyFrog fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Jan 6, 2016 |
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Jan 6, 2016 19:12
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COOL CORN posted:I haven't read the rules for LOD, but what makes them much more complex? There is a ton of combat modifiers and exceptions http://www.gmtgames.com/libertyordeath/LODRulesFinal(nocoverart).pdf Normally that's okay in a wargame, but I feel like that all violates the spirit of how the COIN games have been so far. I'm really considering dropping the order and I would really hate to cause I love this series of games, but I get so few chances to breakout the other ones that are easier to teach people to play. Do Not Resuscitate posted:What do you guys think the best solitaire wargames out there are? I'd say the COIN series and The Hunters, which is out of print, but its sequel game is just coming out Silent Victory which is the US sub war against Japan during World War Two.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:15
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SlyFrog posted:I really don't want this to get lost in the shuffle - these were all good people. None of them were assholes, or snippy, or anything. They just kept trying to start slow, but got notably impatient and sped everything up much to fast. The sorts that think if they explain 1/50th of a complex subject slowly for the first 5 minutes, that you will then be able to pick up the remaining 49/50ths in the next five minutes after that. No doubt, bad teachers or fast players can ruin the experience for newcomers. I started on the starter kits, playing solo and using COOL CORN's LP OP as a guide. The first vs scenario I played was... RPT-11 Butchers and Bakers, 5.5 turns with less than 10 squads total. Really great suggestion from my gaming group to start me with it. Spent probably 4 or so hours playing it, asking questions, strategizing. After we finished we had some spare time, so we did a really quick game on FT-12 Sur le Toit de l'Europe at 4.5 turns and 5.5 squads (lots of half-squads in this one). I've got an ASL Journal I plan to sit down with to see how much I can glean from the huge AAR in it, without having a map or counters in front of me to work with. Anyone that starts you off with scenarios that aren't infantry-only (or with very little else) is setting up a newcomer to a bad time.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:27
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Jobbo_Fett posted:No doubt, bad teachers or fast players can ruin the experience for newcomers. Spot on. I actually just decided to play with my (then) wife, who said she was willing and interested. As mentioned, I learned the rules by reading the rulebook, and closely following through some detailed examples of play available on the internet. We then started with things like Guards Counterattack and Fighting Withdrawal, and I had a grand time. From there, we did a few scenarios just involving a tank or two, a gun, etc. Of course, I'm now divorced, and no longer have the dream of a built-in ASL playing partner. Such is life. (I do not believe ASL caused the divorce, but who the hell knows these things.) I now have a shitload of ASL stuff, because I'm retarded, and overbuy for nearly anything I'm interested in. I have pretty much all of the "official" things (other than Hakke Palle), including all the Annuals, Journals, and Campaign games, as well as a bunch of third party stuff. I'm tempted to get Hakke Palle just to keep everything "complete." But of course, I now have no idea what to do with all of the stuff, and it will probably in reality end up being a few thousand dollars worth of cardboard mouldering in my basement crawlspace. Yay. SlyFrog fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Jan 6, 2016 |
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Jan 6, 2016 19:42
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AARP LARPer fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Jan 23, 2016 |
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Jan 6, 2016 19:43
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This LoD talk is a bummer. I'm new to the hobby and backed it because COIN style games (or card driven) sound much more appealing than a lot of the other war games I see. The theme is also something that my wife and I are both interested in, but if people are this down on it maybe I should wait for a reprint of a better COIN, even if the setting isn't as appealing.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:46
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To be honest, none of us have actually tried it, but it does seem to be the black sheep of COINs so far. I am going to try it when it comes out and in interested to see how it works but there aren't many things that appeal to me and I fundamentally doubt that the COIN system can accurately reflect the American war of independence. I still think that the game is going to be pretty good otherwise, but for my part I am going to wait until Falling Sky comes out, since I want another lighter COIN in my collection rather than another monster.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:51
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SlyFrog posted:Spot on. I actually just decided to play with my (then) wife, who said she was willing and interested. As mentioned, I learned the rules by reading the rulebook, and closely following through some detailed examples of play available on the internet. We then started with things like Guards Counterattack and Fighting Withdrawal, and I had a grand time. From there, we did a few scenarios just involving a tank or two, a gun, etc. Bummer, sorry to hear about your divorce  I had to search quite a bit to find my ASL group, but living in a major city helps with that. You could always try VASL on VASSAL? I have the same buying tendency too, for better or for worse, haha.
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Jan 6, 2016 19:58
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Bummer, sorry to hear about your divorce I've played VASL before - you run into the problem of most of the players on there being sharks (so far as I can tell). I'm a very casual player, and I do not tend to analyze games or learn much from playing to playing (I mean, I can generally avoid doing pants on head stupid things like not moving in stacks). So VASL can lead to a fair bit of stress. I have thought about getting back into it, however. (Separately, I just started my first ever online game of Through the Ages (the new version in this case), so I'm taking baby steps.) The truly sad thing is that I live ina major metropolitan area. I just want to be goony, and not ever have to play with other people, but instead just have this ability to play at home with someone where we have a nice collection of games and grow with them over time. Though I'm seeing someone new who at least outwardly says she likes games, and has played some Agricola: All Creatures Great and Small and Carcassonne with me and stated she enjoyed them, I'm suspicious. Both of whether the interest is really there long term, and where it will stop (I do not want to play only things like Carcassonne). Yes, I know the answer is to stop being goony and go play at a local gamestore or something. But whenever I go, I see the people sitting around the table, and it creeps me out. Maybe I'll just sit alone, in a barely lit room, with a small glass of scotch in one hand and a T-34 counter in the other, slowly rubbing it between my fingers, wistfully staring off into the darkness at a future that never will be. Or I could just buy Hakkaa Paalle and numb myself for 30 minutes with retail therapy, before the counterbalancing shame kicks in. 
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Jan 6, 2016 20:07
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I've been having luck with inviting random strangers from the internet but i think it can be a risky strategy. Some of those strangers were people I met before in public board gaming group.
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Jan 6, 2016 20:13
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SlyFrog posted:Yes, I know the answer is to stop being goony and go play at a local gamestore or something. But whenever I go, I see the people sitting around the table, and it creeps me out. Know that when you do, I'll be there, in another dark room, staring back. My glass will have bourbon, and the counter will be a finnish BT-42. Edit: if we ever were to play an actual game, I would incessantly make puns about 'crossing the finnish line'.
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Jan 6, 2016 20:39
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I always move in stacks  I am a good player, I promise.
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Jan 6, 2016 20:43
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Tekopo posted:I've been having luck with inviting random strangers from the internet but i think it can be a risky strategy. Some of those strangers were people I met before in public board gaming group. The crystal I wear around my neck contains an essence that gets recharged when I play ASL with a bro who also has a crystal. It gives me confidence at work, home, social situations, etc. Nobody knows it's an ASL crystal but me and my bros. I have seen it glow white while skulking with a bud thats how I know this is real. You can come over for as long as you want but I need a picture of you preferably wearing a crystal before I waste my time.
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Jan 6, 2016 21:04
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Tekopo posted:Navajo Wars. That's some hosed up dark humour, man. PS. Vietnam. When?
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Jan 6, 2016 21:09
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I'm a terrible ASL player but know the rules decently enough. I'd be up for playing over VASL sometime.
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Jan 6, 2016 21:11
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Lichtenstein posted:That's some hosed up dark humour, man. Apparently Marco Arnaudo's "Christmas break project" was learning and reviewing FOF, and we should expect his review "in early 2016". Every time I go to Youtube I frantically check his profile to see if it's there. I can't wait to see how he manages to
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Jan 6, 2016 21:13
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Oldstench posted:The crystal I wear around my neck contains an essence that gets recharged when I play ASL with a bro who also has a crystal. It gives me confidence at work, home, social situations, etc. Nobody knows it's an ASL crystal but me and my bros. I have seen it glow white while skulking with a bud thats how I know this is real. You can come over for as long as you want but I need a picture of you preferably wearing a crystal before I waste my time. Lichtenstein posted:That's some hosed up dark humour, man.
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Jan 6, 2016 21:28
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I'd like to try Vassal but I'm scared. I'm easily frustrated and it seems that ASL is full of stuff I could forget and the idea of it would drive me insane. Any of you qualify for patience of a saint?
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Jan 7, 2016 07:08
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Id have to learn/brush up on my VASSAL but I wouldnt mind once ive got some free time
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Jan 7, 2016 07:13
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VASSAL is an excellent platform For playing by yourself
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Jan 7, 2016 10:42
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Jobbo_Fett posted:Id have to learn/brush up on my VASSAL but I wouldnt mind once ive got some free time Well, you got me on Steam, we'll just need to iron our time zone difference... and VASSAL
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Jan 7, 2016 10:55
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JcDent posted:Well, you got me on Steam, we'll just need to iron our time zone difference... and VASSAL http://steamcommunity.com/id/qpzil/ Feel free to add me too. I'm patient, have lots of VASSAL experience, and am happy to help.
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Jan 7, 2016 14:22
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Why has nobody told me Warfighter has 7.62 bullet-shaped dice? 
Lichtenstein fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Jan 7, 2016 |
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Jan 7, 2016 14:51
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Lichtenstein posted:has nobody told me Warfighter has 7.62 bullet-shaped dice? I enjoy Warfighter, but the dice are terrible Every expansion comes with a baggie of bullet dice, so I have like 8 bags of them, and I hate using them.
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Jan 7, 2016 14:56
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I thought that the gooncensus was that Warfighter was a boring one-dimensional luckfest? Or am I thinking of another similarly named game? Also, last night I recreated the 'US Navy fighter pilot in Vietnam' experience in Birds of Prey, by pulling in just behind an enemy MiG-21 and lining up a shot; then remembering that the F-4 I was flying has no gun and I was too close for missiles  Cue ~6 turns of verrrrrrrry slllllllowly flying a circle while slowing down enough to open up the range and popping a missile off. Birds of Prey is going back in the box for a while after that one. MikeCrotch fucked around with this message at 15:22 on Jan 7, 2016 |
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Jan 7, 2016 15:19
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MikeCrotch posted:I thought that the gooncensus was that Warfighter was a boring one-dimensional luckfest? Or am I thinking of another similarly named game? It's certainly not a brain burner with a ton of choices. But, I personally find it fun to set up a mission, pick my soldiers, kit them out, and then see how my choices play out. Honestly I think it has more substance than something like B-17 or The Hunters. It's very much akin to the Leader series from DVG. I recommend it.
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Jan 7, 2016 15:24
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COOL CORN posted:http://steamcommunity.com/id/qpzil/ Kazan, eh? I like your timezone already! Friend invite sent.
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Jan 7, 2016 16:11
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JcDent posted:Kazan, eh? I like your timezone already! Friend invite sent.  I'm not actually in Kazan (anymore), I live in the US east coast.
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Jan 7, 2016 16:17
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COOL CORN posted:
RATS! Well, not gonna take it back, we'll sort something out somehow!
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Jan 7, 2016 16:29
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Just looked over the LoD rulebook and WELP, gently caress ever teaching that game to normal humans. It looks like a cluster gently caress of detail which, like someone else said, kind of takes away from the cleanliness of the COIN design for the most part. I guess it's a COIN for a grognard's grognard, but a definite skip for me. I would only try it with someone who already knew the game really well. Looks like too much of a chore to learn it by myself, with to many tiny, but incredibly important rules that would be overlooked and would gently caress entire games. Scalping traitors in my home state sounded cool at least
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Jan 7, 2016 20:32
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Got to teach Napoleon's Triumph to someone who wants to get into wargames, he's a heavy euro gamer already though. Went pretty well! He skimmed the rules beforehand, rules took maybe 45 minutes, game took maybe 3 hours, he lost spectacularly on morale at 2 pm, but enjoyed it and wants to play again soon so he can remember what he's doing. I think I'm switching allegiances, I think the French are probably easier for newbies now. Not because of the "all your corps get to move", not the extra independent move, and definitely not the big reinforcement decision. No, I think that's the case solely because attacking entrenched enemies is fuckin hard, and new players simply can't figure out how to do it while protecting flanks. Too bad I learned this during this game, but good to know for the future. fyi, sending heavy cav behind the allied lines is the most hilarious thing.
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Jan 8, 2016 17:09
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silvergoose posted:Got to teach Napoleon's Triumph to someone who wants to get into wargames, he's a heavy euro gamer already though. What's the best way to learn/teach NT rules? Been working through the rules myself, but I'm going to have to teach it at some point as well.
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Jan 8, 2016 17:30
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taser rates posted:What's the best way to learn/teach NT rules? Been working through the rules myself, but I'm going to have to teach it at some point as well. Hm. First step is to have the learner skim the rules, it's really hard if they have zero familiarity with how anything works. I usually explain what units are (blocks, corps), where they can be (reserve, approach), how they move (roads, not roads), commands (corp move, attach, detach, unit move), then onto the attack procedure which I just go in order (explaining a little bit as to *why* you want to do certain things and implications of certain rules like "blocks can only be named defenders for one approach so be really loving careful in big locales when you're surrounded", and how to use feints). After that, how to win, elite units, and artillery (since really, while artillery is covered by the attack procedure, it's far easier to explain "just deal a point of damage per artillery, unless the defense has the artillery penalty and is blocking the approach). Finally, the few exceptions that are hard to explain earlier (corps road moves, cavalry road feints, the santon, artillery on defense, stuff like that) and setup! Be sure to explain that the roads *never* go where you want them to go, french win on the final tiebreaker so holy poo poo be careful letting french cavalry get behind you or surround you, and reiterate how bad it is to have corps get surrounded in big locales. Oh, and single strength units not being able to lead defense from the reserve, and attacks at all unless they're artillery in the approach.
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Jan 8, 2016 17:37
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Drinking beer, eating steak, watching Seinfeld, and punching World in Flames counter. What a Friday night!
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Jan 9, 2016 00:24
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You lost me at Seinfeld.
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Jan 9, 2016 01:06
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Punching or clipping or both? Do you already have your storage solution? I can only imagine how many Plano boxes you'd need for WiF
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Jan 9, 2016 01:11
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The General posted:Punching or clipping or both? Do you already have your storage solution? I can only imagine how many Plano boxes you'd need for WiF Both. For the "base" game ("Classic" WIF), it's not so bad. I've got US/Commonealth/France in one box, Russia/China in one box, Germany/Italy/Japan in one box, markers in one, and minor countries in one. Not perfect, but I don't want to dedicate 10 planos to this game!
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Jan 9, 2016 02:23
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COOL CORN posted:Both. For the "base" game ("Classic" WIF), it's not so bad. I've got US/Commonealth/France in one box, Russia/China in one box, Germany/Italy/Japan in one box, markers in one, and minor countries in one. So, uh, what's you time zone? I'll start reading the start kit with some hope Accept the drat Steam invite
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Jan 9, 2016 07:32
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