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Cat Mattress posted:I haven't called it the Light Side either, just the "Jedi-approved use" of the Force. Calling it the "Dark Side" automatically implies a "Light Side", which is why it's a bad name if the Dark Side isn't something that was supposed to exist. That's all my point is. I just posted this in another thread but the Force is a religion. This is stated in-film. Jedi are effectively Paladins following or attempting to follow rules from their gods. The only difference is that for Jedi them falling means they get to keep their powers but almost universally at some personal emotional or physical cost. (And while I don't know D&D that well I know there's plenty of Paladin bullshit that attempts to do the same thing.) That's pretty relevant to this thread where analyzing the Paladin thing is a big part of the comic.
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Jan 6, 2016 20:03
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imo it's less a religion and more a philosophy/code. Jedi are more like monks than paladins in D&D.
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Jan 6, 2016 20:10
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Colonel Cool posted:imo it's less a religion and more a philosophy/code. It is literally called a religion in the films. Multiple times in fact.
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Jan 6, 2016 20:14
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ImpAtom posted:It is literally called a religion in the films. Multiple times in fact. Monks follow religions. Anyway, are we taking bets as to whether the vampires try to eat everyone in the room or just Roy?
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Jan 6, 2016 20:19
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ImpAtom posted:It is literally called a religion in the films. Multiple times in fact. I think he's drawing a line between theistic and nontheistic religions. Jedi follow a nontheistic religion.
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Jan 6, 2016 20:20
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Sorry, yes, that's what I meant. The Force might be something like Buddhism.
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Jan 6, 2016 20:22
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Sefer posted:I think he's drawing a line between theistic and nontheistic religions. Jedi follow a nontheistic religion. Eh, not really. The Force has a will of its own. "Using" the Force for a Jedi is more akin to listening to it and letting it act through you. It's pretty theistic. The Force is like some mixture of Abrahamic God and Brahman and it's adherents aspire to be Bodhisattva Space Paladins.
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Jan 6, 2016 20:39
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Cat Mattress posted:And they're not afraid to play literal genie. Honestly I'm really glad the oracle's prophecies avoid this. His prophecy to Haley was a straightforward piece of advice in a common idiom ("don't look the gift horse in the mouth"), which she took to heart and ended up getting her voice and happiness as a result. There was no horse involved. This is also why trying to weasel around "Belkar will draw his last breath ever before the end of the year" is not going to work; the oracle is just not that kind of prophet.
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Jan 6, 2016 20:48
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Captain Oblivious posted:Eh, not really. The Force has a will of its own. "Using" the Force for a Jedi is more akin to listening to it and letting it act through you. The only interesting application of that idea is the one Lucas hates from KOTOR 2 where there's a character who compares the Force to a parasitic entity using people like pawns. More relevantly, the Force leads itself to bad use of prophecy because being a magic power that exists through everyone, it can happily twist poo poo into whatever convoluted series of events needs to happen to make the prophecy come true. So important characters get plot armour and magical competence at whatever they need to be good at, while villains magically fail to notice obvious things and miss every shot.
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Jan 6, 2016 20:58
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The older I get the more tedious I I find Kreia's ramblings.
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Jan 6, 2016 21:31
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Rygar201 posted:The older I get the more tedious I I find Kreia's ramblings. 
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Jan 6, 2016 21:45
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I was referring to the above KOTOR 2 post.
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Jan 6, 2016 21:55
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Also I call real bullshit on the idea the dark side is some big magic cancer when the Sith order was spawned originally by people going "Hey let's not have to follow the old ways, lets have our own personal exploration of the force!" and getting exiled so they started their own cool guy club that eventually was run by a bunch of assholes. Sith are just Jedi, Jedi are just sith. There's literally no difference between good things and bad things.
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Jan 7, 2016 00:05
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Also I call real bullshit on the idea the dark side is some big magic cancer when the Sith order was spawned originally by people going "Hey let's not have to follow the old ways, lets have our own personal exploration of the force!" and getting exiled so they started their own cool guy club that eventually was run by a bunch of assholes. Diametrically opposed things are the same, if you think about it! 
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Jan 7, 2016 00:08
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From a certain point of view.
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Jan 7, 2016 00:37
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Does Goblins still exist? I don't know if I can handle reading this many Star Wars threads at once.
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Jan 7, 2016 00:42
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VodeAndreas posted:Does Goblins still exist? No. Hasn't updated since last year. Thunt is dead, again.
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Jan 7, 2016 01:06
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Cat Mattress posted:No. Hasn't updated since last year. Thunt is dead, again. What was the drama with Goblins again?
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Jan 7, 2016 01:10
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He basically had a nervous breakdown stemming (at least in part) from people criticizing the skeevier parts of his comic, and more or less completely dropped off the web for the better part of a year.
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Jan 7, 2016 01:17
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Hey, nerds, you're trying to find some deep meaning in a profecy that George "yeah, that sounds cool" Lucas wrote.
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Jan 7, 2016 01:23
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trucutru posted:Hey, nerds, you're trying to find some deep meaning in a profecy that George "yeah, that sounds cool" Lucas wrote. Death of the Author, hth.
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Jan 7, 2016 01:26
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Cat Mattress posted:No. Hasn't updated since last year. Thunt is dead, again. Thunt never truly dies. He lays in waiting. He is the darkness in the hearts of men. But there is a prophecy saying that one person will bring balance.
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Jan 7, 2016 01:34
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I gotta say the plot's starting to drag a little for me. It feels less like the action is moving forward and more like it's stalling into an endless series of "Roy tries this"/"Durkula has a contingency plan!" reversals.
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Jan 7, 2016 01:47
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Maxwell Lord posted:I gotta say the plot's starting to drag a little for me. It feels less like the action is moving forward and more like it's stalling into an endless series of "Roy tries this"/"Durkula has a contingency plan!" reversals. It won't feel this way when you read it all at once in a year.
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Jan 7, 2016 01:48
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Rygar201 posted:Diametrically opposed things are the same, if you think about it! Words of a sage
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Jan 7, 2016 02:17
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Rygar201 posted:Diametrically opposed things are the same, if you think about it! "Only a Sith deals in absolutes" "Isn't that itself an absolute, saying that no-one who's not a Sith ever deals in absolutes?" "Shut up."
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Jan 7, 2016 02:41
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team overhead smash posted:"Only a Sith deals in absolutes" Unless the Jedi saying it are actually Sith.
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Jan 7, 2016 03:08
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I love that line, because it really underlines everything wrong with the prequels. ...or everything right with the prequels if you watch it in a "fall of Rome" sort of way, where all the crazy bullshit that happens to the Jedi Order is just the final comeuppance for a ridiculously top-heavy and backwards bureaucracy.
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Jan 7, 2016 03:18
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Yeah, I always thought it was funny that in the OT the light side being balanced and the Sith being an imbalance in and of themselves made sense because all the Jedi are pretty cool and easygoing guys and the Sith are weird sadistic ghouls. It's the PT that turns the Jedi Order into a bunch of joyless bureaucratic assholes who take you from your family at age five and then tell you you can literally never have sex or you're out of the good guy club forever. Sheev was right, basically
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Jan 7, 2016 04:45
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The Jedi were the bad guys in the prequels. What thread am I in?
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Jan 7, 2016 04:47
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From my point of view the paladins are evil
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Jan 7, 2016 04:50
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Wolfsheim posted:Yeah, I always thought it was funny that in the OT the light side being balanced and the Sith being an imbalance in and of themselves made sense because all the Jedi are pretty cool and easygoing guys and the Sith are weird sadistic ghouls. It's the PT that turns the Jedi Order into a bunch of joyless bureaucratic assholes who take you from your family at age five and then tell you you can literally never have sex or you're out of the good guy club forever. Indeed, the organization presented as a corrupt and stagnant institution is precisely that. The Jedi in the prequels are not very good Jedi. Where people go off the rails is when they extrapolate this to somehow mean the Sith are actually not evil.
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Jan 7, 2016 04:54
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Captain Oblivious posted:Indeed, the organization presented as a corrupt and stagnant institution is precisely that. The Jedi in the prequels are not very good Jedi. Paladins=Bad, ergo Blackguards=Good (to the mind of a moron.)
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Jan 7, 2016 04:57
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When I saw forty-four new posts in this thread, I thought there was an update and was happy. Then I came in and discovered it was actually a bunch of people disingenuously talking past each other about Star Wars. This is very disappointing.
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Jan 7, 2016 05:11
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Star Wars is stupid.
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Jan 7, 2016 05:27
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Malpais Legate posted:Star Wars is stupid. No, I'm stupid.
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Jan 7, 2016 05:28
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I hope Rich is okay.
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Jan 7, 2016 05:31
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Wolfsheim posted:It's the PT that turns the Jedi Order into a bunch of joyless bureaucratic assholes who take you from your family at age five and then tell you you can literally never have sex or you're out of the good guy club forever. Reminder that Yoda literally tells Luke to let his friends die so he can stay there and complete his training instead.
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Jan 7, 2016 05:43
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Colonel Cool posted:Reminder that Yoda literally tells Luke to let his friends die so he can stay there and complete his training instead.
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Jan 7, 2016 05:51
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ultrafilter posted:I hope Rich is okay. Rich can't help you now. Welcome to the Mos Eisley Cantina, bitch. (I brought up Star Wars, I'm very sorry)
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Jan 7, 2016 06:34
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