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quote:If I had seen “Revenge of the Sith” in real time, in a theatre upon its release, in 2005, I think that, at the moment when Palpatine (Ian McDiarmid), sizzling in the blue lightning that Mace Windu (Samuel L. Jackson) reflects back at him, cries out to Anakin (Hayden Christensen), “Power! Unlimited Power!,” I would have leaped out of my seat yelling with excitement. The entire movie is filled with an absolute splendor of the pulp sublime, and that moment is its very apogee. Lucas reaches historic heights in the filming of action: the martial artistry of Anakin and Obi-Wan’s double duel versus Dooku, the gaping maw of outer space and of the airshaft into which the heroic duo drops, Obi-Wan’s light-sabre fight with the four-armed Grievous, and, above all, the apocalyptic inferno of the confrontation of Obi-Wan and Anakin (which, regrettably, cuts back to Yoda and Emperor, a much duller battle). I watched these sequences over and over—happily, with the sound off to get rid of the musical score—and was repeatedly and unflaggingly amazed by Lucas’s precise, dynamic, wildly imaginative direction. The New Yorker is ALL IN on the prequels. http://www.newyorker.com/culture/cultural-comment/what-the-seven-star-wars-films-reveal-about-george-lucas
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Jan 6, 2016 21:53
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Frackie Robinson posted:Dexter Jettser was the best frycook in the galaxy, and a cunning manager. And a good friend. Stealing this forever.
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Jan 6, 2016 21:54
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euphronius posted:I know right. Laser moon 2 was canonically complete. No, it was a completed cannon. 
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Jan 6, 2016 22:06
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Noam Chomsky posted:I wonder how much of the dissatisfaction with the prequels comes from already knowing what's going to happen. Part of my enjoyment of media, and I assume others', comes from mystery and suspense. We know who makes it out of the prequels alive and the general story beats that are going to happen and, knowing that, one can view the details through a microscope and pick them apart. I'm not a fan of dreams or flashbacks for the same reason that I can't, generally, enjoy prequels - there are no stakes since we know how it all turns out. It'd be nice to do a mindwipe in order to be able to watch them all in chronological order. The only ones you really know are going to survive is Anakin, Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Palpatine. As for story, you know that Obi-Wan tutored Anakin, Anakin eventually fell to the Dark Side, and they fight at some time. You can also infer that Palpatine was part of Anakin's downfall. All of those plot points appear solely in Episode 3, which is the most well-received of the PT. This suggests the opposite instead: people wanted to know exactly what it was going in, and were surprised (and angry) when it wasn't what they expected.
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Jan 6, 2016 22:10
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Frackie Robinson posted:Uhh hello, it's called the Sun Crusher. I legit like Sun Crusher as a name, no matter how cheesy it may be.
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Jan 6, 2016 22:10
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Man, I miss that other thread.
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Jan 6, 2016 22:12
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computer parts posted:The only ones you really know are going to survive is Anakin, Obi-Wan, Yoda, and Palpatine. As for story, you know that Obi-Wan tutored Anakin, Anakin eventually fell to the Dark Side, and they fight at some time. You can also infer that Palpatine was part of Anakin's downfall. Actually it's probably because there are no stakes, and hence no real drama or suspense, in Ep. 1 and 2 - if you walk in with a fair amount of foreknowledge - and that people actually got to see what they wanted from the prequels in Ep. 3.
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Jan 6, 2016 22:20
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Noam Chomsky posted:Actually it's probably because there are no stakes, and hence no real drama or suspense, in Ep. 1 and 2 - if you walk in with a fair amount of foreknowledge - and that people actually got to see what they wanted from the prequels in Ep. 3. There's absolutely no reason why Qui-Gon needed to die in Episode 1.
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Jan 6, 2016 22:21
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computer parts posted:There's absolutely no reason why Qui-Gon needed to die in Episode 1. I think he died for the same reason Luke needed to not be present for most of TFA: to put the focus on the main characters. It allowed Obi-Wan struggle with his own level of Jedi orthodoxy without there being even a former master to advise him.
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Jan 6, 2016 22:25
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homullus posted:I think he died for the same reason Luke needed to not be present for most of TFA: to put the focus on the main characters. It allowed Obi-Wan struggle with his own level of Jedi orthodoxy without there being even a former master to advise him. Yeah but my point is that going into TPM there's definitely a reasonable chance that Qui-Gon could live or die. Likewise with Darth Maul you don't know if he'll die there or if he'll escape ala Kylo Ren.
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Jan 6, 2016 22:29
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computer parts posted:There's absolutely no reason why Qui-Gon needed to die in Episode 1. Qui Gon was the Obi Wan to Obi Wan. The mentor to the younger character, who needed to die so that he can get stronger.
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Jan 6, 2016 22:30
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CelticPredator posted:Qui Gon was the Obi Wan to Obi Wan. The mentor to the younger character, who needed to die so that he can get stronger. It's almost like they handwaved away Yoda teaching Obi Wan so they could use a narrative trope, because they can't kill Yoda off twice 20 years apart.
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Jan 6, 2016 22:38
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computer parts posted:Yeah but my point is that going into TPM there's definitely a reasonable chance that Qui-Gon could live or die. Likewise with Darth Maul you don't know if he'll die there or if he'll escape ala Kylo Ren. Plus Jarjar who at the time could have been the threepio of the prequels, you didn't know what would happen to. Didn't know if Padme was gonna be Luke's mom, until the second one. I think a lot of people had problems with the prequels because they skipped over the parts that actually wanted to see. Anakins training completely off screen. Clone Wars almost completely off screen later shown in a cartoon. Anakin being an awesome pilot, maybe one scene of adult Anakin impressively flying a spaceship, Anakins corruption, though the end of it happened on screen most of it happened between movies. The prequels covered generally surprising stuff audiences weren't expecting, which they were not happy with. I think George had the feeling of "The audience already knows this happens, why bother telling that story, I'm going to tell this story instead."
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Jan 6, 2016 22:38
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computer parts posted:There's absolutely no reason why Qui-Gon needed to die in Episode 1. He's a new character who doesn't show up in the original trilogy, and essentially exists for his pupil to constantly nag about being too loose with jedi rules and tricks. And it was clear Anakin was going to get picked up and tutored, which would either create a weird centipede of teachers and tutors, or put Obi-Wan on the same level as a literal child. I was more surprised that Obi-Wan getting pissed had no effect on the stick dancing than Qui-Gon dying.
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Jan 6, 2016 22:47
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Jack's Flow posted:The New Yorker is ALL IN on the prequels. It's refreshing to encounter someone writing about the prequels with such clarity and sophistication, even if I disagree with a lot of the author's assertions.
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Jan 6, 2016 22:48
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greatn posted:Plus Jarjar who at the time could have been the threepio of the prequels, you didn't know what would happen to. Didn't know if Padme was gonna be Luke's mom, until the second one. Assuming the audience would get attached to a character that they dont have time to bond with was a stupid idea, no matter how much blame you put on the audience. It's true that you have no idea what will happen to Padme and Jar Jar. It's unfortunate then, that these two characters are either dull or obnoxious in TPM, disappear or exist for a weird love vacation and visual reference to Leia in AotC, then doing a dumb thing or existing to get pregnant and force chokes in RotJ.
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Jan 6, 2016 22:54
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greatn posted:Plus Jarjar who at the time could have been the threepio of the prequels, you didn't know what would happen to. Didn't know if Padme was gonna be Luke's mom, until the second one. Anakin impressively flies his Jedi starfighter in the opening minutes of Revenge of the Sith and then soon after single-handedly lands a Separatist command ship that's being torn apart and in danger of crashing and killing everyone aboard. Terrorist Fistbump posted:It's refreshing to encounter someone writing about the prequels with such clarity and sophistication, even if I disagree with a lot of the author's assertions. I thought you were one of the pro-prequel folk, what do you take issue with?
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Jan 6, 2016 22:57
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Honestly, in Episode One, it's kinda hard to see why Anakin could become such a monster. But within the first scene that he shows up in Attack of the Clones, you're like "Oh. That's why.
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Jan 6, 2016 22:57
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I mean, Anakin goes from dweebish kid to sand tribe cleanser off-screen. I don't think you can really chalk this up reactions to this to "audiences hate intellectual ubermensches and their gorgeous decisions"
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Jan 6, 2016 23:12
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They killed off two potentially good characters in Qui Gon Jinn and Darth Maul. Instead of leaving them alive and to see what happens next - most things are all tied up and then FLASH FORWARD - remember that time Obi Wan? gently caress??CelticPredator posted:Honestly, in Episode One, it's kinda hard to see why Anakin could become such a monster. I dont see this - he's in a elevator chuckling with Obi Wan about some adventure.
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Jan 6, 2016 23:15
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Neurolimal posted:I mean, Anakin goes from dweebish kid to sand tribe cleanser off-screen. I don't think you can really chalk this up reactions to this to "audiences hate intellectual ubermensches and their gorgeous decisions" So does Kylo Ren, except you don't even get to see him as a dweebish kid.
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Jan 6, 2016 23:15
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computer parts posted:So does Kylo Ren, except you don't even get to see him as a dweebish kid. He's also not a main protagonist, he starts out characterized as Bad Man and works backwards from that, and you're not supposed to think he's a good guy who becomea corrupted (or vice versa). You go into TFA knowing there is a bad guy with a cool mask, you go into AOTC knowing Annie is a grown up jedi now. In the former this is established and progressed from there. In the latter Anakin murders an entire family including women and chiyounglings in between romantic Space Venice moments.
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Jan 6, 2016 23:20
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Beeez posted:I thought you were one of the pro-prequel folk, what do you take issue with? I don't have a well-founded opinion on the prequels because I haven't seen them in 10 years. What I am is pro-liking movies, pro-good posts about movies, and anti-missionary zeal about hating movies. However, I am also pro-having well-founded opinions on things when you dislike them but anti-nerd screed. Basically, I want the standard of discourse to be higher. As for the article, the main thing I disagree with is that Empire and Jedi are boring and that the prequels are the opposite.
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Jan 6, 2016 23:34
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Vintersorg posted:They killed off two potentially good characters in Qui Gon Jinn and Darth Maul. Instead of leaving them alive and to see what happens next - most things are all tied up and then FLASH FORWARD - remember that time Obi Wan? gently caress?? Okay, second scene then. When he gets all lusty about Padme and then snaps at his master because he wants some action.
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Jan 6, 2016 23:41
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I was bored this morning so I tried to watch the prequels. In case anyone was wondering they loving suck and couldn't get through attack of the clones.
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Jan 6, 2016 23:41
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bruvs be4 luvs
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CelticPredator posted:Okay, second scene then. When he gets all lusty about Padme and then snaps at his master because he wants some action. It's partly that, but another part of the reason he snaps is because Obi-Wan's bitching at him like he's an idiot even though he's obviously right: Discovering the identity of Padme's assassin is implied in their mandate, whether Obi-Wan or the Council would like to admit it or not. Obi-Wan proves it himself when his own first instinct is to impulsively leap out a window and grab onto the assassin droid in order to follow it back to its source. I don't understand how people can watch the prequels and say, "Wow, the Jedi sure do act like a bunch of stupid jerks a lot of the time!" and then turn around and call Anakin a sulky whiner whenever he calls them out on their bullshit.
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Jan 6, 2016 23:49
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That window jump was some hilariously dumb poo poo when you consider that the entirety of Obi's characterization has been grumpily criticizing his crazy gung-ho teacher, then watching crazy gung-ho teacher die, then critique psychotic loose cannon Anakin. I think this was also a RLM complaint.
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Jan 6, 2016 23:53
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Dubplate Fire posted:I was bored this morning so I tried to watch the prequels. In case anyone was wondering they loving suck and couldn't get through attack of the clones. neat what didn't you like about phantom menace and maybe a third of attack of the clones?
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Jan 6, 2016 23:53
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Waffles Inc. posted:neat No darth Vader
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Jan 6, 2016 23:58
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Cnut the Great posted:It's partly that, but another part of the reason he snaps is because Obi-Wan's bitching at him like he's an idiot even though he's obviously right: Discovering the identity of Padme's assassin is implied in their mandate, whether Obi-Wan or the Council would like to admit it or not. Obi-Wan proves it himself when his own first instinct is to impulsively leap out a window and grab onto the assassin droid in order to follow it back to its source. No one likes a whiner, is what it boils down too. Say your poo poo with some conviction! "OBI WAN, you're ideas are terrible, and your entire religion is poo poo. gently caress you!" Go for it Anni! You take the system down!
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Jan 6, 2016 23:59
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOwpcbx8jg4
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Jan 7, 2016 00:13
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The main part of the article I find issue with is his objection to the music. It seems weird to me that you'd love the over-the-top visual craziness and melodrama of the prequels but Williams' music is a step too far. Nor do I think he's right about Empire and Jedi being too solemn- there's still a lot of irreverence in both, and the wonderfully put together space battle in Jedi is a clear precursor to the digital craziness near the opening acts of Clones and RotS. Still his main thesis, such as it is, is a strong one- he's defending II and III based on sheer visual power and grace, and the complexity of that action.
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Jan 7, 2016 00:13
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Neurolimal posted:That window jump was some hilariously dumb poo poo when you consider that the entirety of Obi's characterization has been grumpily criticizing his crazy gung-ho teacher, then watching crazy gung-ho teacher die, then critique psychotic loose cannon Anakin. It's a really dumb complaint, because the thrust of Obi-Wan's character is that he's often quite unfair and hypocritical in his criticisms of Anakin. He's also more similar to Anakin (and Qui-Gon) than he'd like to admit. Remember this scene at the end of Episode I?  OBI-WAN : Master Yoda, I gave Qui-Gon my word. I will train Anakin. Without the approval of the Council if I must. YODA : Qui-Gon's defiance I sense in you. Need that, you do not. Lucas retroactively references this scene in Episode V, when Obi-Wan reminds Yoda about how impulsive and driven by emotion he was when Yoda was still his mentor:  BEN'S VOICE: He will learn patience. YODA: Hmmm. Much anger in him, like his father. BEN'S VOICE: Was I any different when you taught me? Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Jan 7, 2016 |
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Jan 7, 2016 00:15
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Neurolimal posted:That window jump was some hilariously dumb poo poo when you consider that the entirety of Obi's characterization has been grumpily criticizing his crazy gung-ho teacher, then watching crazy gung-ho teacher die, then critique psychotic loose cannon Anakin.  Obi Wan is trying to counsel patience and wisdom and serenity but he's really not one to talk. He's not a very good teacher. A cool guy but a horrible teacher.
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Jan 7, 2016 00:16
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to be extremely fair to the Jedi in this case, it doesn't appear to be easy, or maybe even possible, to educate someone in the proper way to behave/have a relationship with the force past a certain, very young, age.
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Jan 7, 2016 00:21
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NecroMonster posted:to be extremely fair to the Jedi in this case, it doesn't appear to be easy, or maybe even possible, to educate someone in the proper way to behave/have a relationship with the force past a certain, very young, age. It doesn't appear to be easy to educate someone in the Republic Jedi way to behave/have a relationship to the Force.
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Jan 7, 2016 00:31
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Maxwell Lord posted:
This is like, the first time he's brash or unreserved, though? That scene at the end was him honoring a promise to a friend who literally just died, not him going "gently caress the council ima train Anakin. 'Cause my gut says to" And that doesn't explain why Ana "Even the women, and the younglings!" kin is the rational actor who doesn't immediately chasing the killbot that attacked the person he has a space boner for.
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Jan 7, 2016 00:32
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homullus posted:It doesn't appear to be easy to educate someone in the Republic Jedi way to behave/have a relationship to the Force. Rather, jedi mind tricks can't make psychopath monsters sane and normal. Perhaps this is the true message after all: Liam Neeson shouldn't pick jedi recruits
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Jan 7, 2016 00:33
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Does CineD ever arrange simulwatch things because I bet this thread would be a good crew to watch the prequels with... 
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Jan 7, 2016 00:37
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Was the fact that the Galactic Republic was doing its best to ignore the rise of the First Order, thus necessitating the forming of the Resistance, made at all clear in the film and I missed it, or are key plot details like that relegated to novelizations and comics and stuff? I mean I liked the movie overall, and it's still way better than anything involving the Trade Federation in the prequels, but it was pretty confusing when it was clearly trying to be evocative of A New Hope while also having the new bad guys be an emerging threat instead of the status quo. SpiderHyphenMan fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Jan 7, 2016 |
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Jan 7, 2016 00:39
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