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NecroMonster posted:well poo poo i guess the only constant in "becomes a bad crazy person" is contact with other bad crazy people They're government special forces. That is literally their freely assumed role in the world: trained killers (for freedom!)
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Jan 7, 2016 01:34
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A Steampunk Gent posted:That's a character I still don't get, he effortlessly defeats Anakin and Obi-Wan in a lightsaber battle, which should imply he has some level of clarity and conviction in his actions, yet he's portrayed by Lee as this stogy, impotent b-tier politician and never realsies he's being played by Palpatine until he loses his head. Never figured what's up with that dude or what he's actually meant to be representing by defeating the protagonists the badguy defeats the good guy in the second movie. i doubt lucas thought anymore deeply about it than this. and that would have been fine if lucas hadn't been so dead set on having a new "badguy" for every movie.
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Jan 7, 2016 01:35
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Can someone address midi-chlorians who thinks they are good? SMG? Personally I love the phantom Menace but that one part I just don't understand what the movie is going for.
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Jan 7, 2016 01:39
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When we were watching the Auralnauts parody of The Phantom Menace last night and it got to the part where Anakin asks "Mister Qui-Gon, sir, I was just wondering... I heard Yoda talking about midichlorians. What, exactly, are midichlorians?" I had to assure my wife that, no, that wasn't dubbed in. That's the actual line from the movie.
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Jan 7, 2016 01:43
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I dunno, I still think it would have been better had Anakin jumped out that window and grabbed that little assassin droid. Obi-Wan is somewhat impatient (usually through things he says) but Anakin does dumb poo poo like charging headlong at Dooku after Obi-Wan warned him to stop and jumping out that space convertible while a million feet in the air.
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Jan 7, 2016 01:45
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greatn posted:Can someone address midi-chlorians who thinks they are good? SMG? Personally I love the phantom Menace but that one part I just don't understand what the movie is going for. You know how they keep going on about power levels in that one bit of DBZ and the baddies keep getting owned because they're making their decisions based on unreliable stat readouts from a computer? Well it's exactly that
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Jan 7, 2016 01:48
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A Steampunk Gent posted:They're government special forces. That is literally their freely assumed role in the world: trained killers (for freedom!) but that's not even a service the jedi alone could render
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Jan 7, 2016 01:48
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NecroMonster posted:but that's not even a service the jedi alone could render In wartime, no, that's why they take command of a slave army to bulk out their ranks in AotC. Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan turning up to perform some aggressive negotiations at the start of TPM seems to be business as usual for peacetime though
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Jan 7, 2016 01:54
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A Steampunk Gent posted:You know how they keep going on about power levels in that one bit of DBZ and the baddies keep getting owned because they're making their decisions based on unreliable stat readouts from a computer? Well it's exactly that Like the end of ANH?
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Jan 7, 2016 01:54
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NecroMonster posted:well poo poo i guess the only constant in "becomes a bad crazy person" is contact with other bad crazy people The Jedi are antiquated and fighting people with laser swords is "uncivilized".
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Jan 7, 2016 01:56
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greatn posted:Like the end of ANH? That's a pretty apt comparison. Mace Windu would have been all over that targeting computer
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Jan 7, 2016 01:58
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A Steampunk Gent posted:In wartime, no, that's why they take command of a slave army to bulk out their ranks in AotC. Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan turning up to perform some aggressive negotiations at the start of TPM seems to be business as usual for peacetime though Even then, if we assumed Jedi or the Force simple didn't exist, what would actually change other than a lack of Jedi performing these duties? The only duty the Jedi can perform that no one else is capable of is opposing/killing Sith, and they don't even accept that Sith actually exist for a broad chunk of the prequels.
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Jan 7, 2016 02:00
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Yaws posted:I dunno, I still think it would have been better had Anakin jumped out that window and grabbed that little assassin droid. Obi-Wan is somewhat impatient (usually through things he says) but Anakin does dumb poo poo like charging headlong at Dooku after Obi-Wan warned him to stop and jumping out that space convertible while a million feet in the air. Especially because just a few minutes before Obi-Wan was lecturing Anakin about how they were instructed to protect Amidala, "not to start an investigation." Also, it would've made Obi's "I hate it when he does that" line when Anakin jumps from the car later land better imo
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Jan 7, 2016 02:02
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greatn posted:Can someone address midi-chlorians who thinks they are good? SMG? Personally I love the phantom Menace but that one part I just don't understand what the movie is going for. The midichlorians are about symbiosis which is the not-really-unstated-at-all theme of the movie. There's all sorts of duality in the movie- two Jedi, two Sith, two races on Naboo who don't get along but have to cooperate to defeat the invaders, the Trade Federation guys are a double-act, Podracing is all about two giant engines dragging you along and they have to be in harmony to go, it's all over the place. Things have to be in harmony- or balance if you will.
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Jan 7, 2016 02:04
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NecroMonster posted:Even then, if we assumed Jedi or the Force simple didn't exist, what would actually change other than a lack of Jedi performing these duties? Well yeah, the main thrust of the PT is the Jedi stink and are literally incapable of doing the one thing they should be there to do whilst getting involved in other unrelated things and making them far worse. It's a black comedy and why Palpatine can't stop laughing once he takes the mask off, he's successfully made them own themselves on a cosmic scale
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Jan 7, 2016 02:04
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Maxwell Lord posted:The midichlorians are about symbiosis which is the not-really-unstated-at-all theme of the movie. There's all sorts of duality in the movie- two Jedi, two Sith, two races on Naboo who don't get along but have to cooperate to defeat the invaders, the Trade Federation guys are a double-act, Podracing is all about two giant engines dragging you along and they have to be in harmony to go, it's all over the place. Things have to be in harmony- or balance if you will. I don't understand how the midi-chlorians are part of this duality theme.
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Jan 7, 2016 02:06
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A Steampunk Gent posted:That's a character I still don't get, he effortlessly defeats Anakin and Obi-Wan in a lightsaber battle, which should imply he has some level of clarity and conviction in his actions, yet he's portrayed by Lee as this stogy, impotent b-tier politician and never realsies he's being played by Palpatine until he loses his head. Never figured what's up with that dude or what he's actually meant to be representing by defeating the protagonists Watching the Clone Wars were Dooku is the main villain gives you a fair amount of respect for the guy. As for him being as good as he was. He was a Jedi for 70 years before leaving the order. Then spent the last 11 years of his life being a political activist and joining up with Palpatine. (Who he was older then) The guy is also pointed out as being one of the best duelists the Jedi Order ever produced with recording of his teachings still be used to train people after he left the order. (He is a better saber duelist then Palpatine for example.) Dude is also super rich. Anyway I quite liked him in Clone Wars. Plus his duels there are awesome. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pI8IkWa3LQ
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Jan 7, 2016 02:10
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A Steampunk Gent posted:Well yeah, the main thrust of the PT is the Jedi stink and are literally incapable of doing the one thing they should be there to do whilst getting involved in other unrelated things and making them far worse. It's a black comedy and why Palpatine can't stop laughing once he takes the mask off, he's successfully made them own themselves on a cosmic scale I guess I'm just struggling to reconcile the fairly clear message of the PT with the person Lucas is known to be. I also wish they weren't so uneven and boring.
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Jan 7, 2016 02:12
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greatn posted:I don't understand how the midi-chlorians are part of this duality theme. They're symbiotic life forms- "without them life could not exist", and the idea is, if you "listen" to them you can channel the Force.
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Jan 7, 2016 02:12
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turtlecrunch posted:"Church of the Force" is not something I want. You're in luck, then. Things don't seem to be working out that well for them.
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Jan 7, 2016 02:15
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NecroMonster posted:I guess I'm just struggling to reconcile the fairly clear message of the PT with the person Lucas is known to be. Sorry, but what?
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Jan 7, 2016 02:19
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Are you literally unaware of the years of interviews and second hand stories about the guy and his behavior and general way of thinking or just pretending to be unaware?
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Jan 7, 2016 02:21
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Darth Vader is Gerald Ford, Grand Moff Tarkin is Haldemann
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Jan 7, 2016 02:23
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NecroMonster posted:Are you literally unaware of the years of interviews and second hand stories about the guy and his behavior and general way of thinking or just pretending to be unaware? I don't really know any of that except the "they died" story.
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Jan 7, 2016 02:23
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Er, I am aware of various of interviews, stories, and - of course - rumors and speculation, but I want to know what you are specifically referring to. I.e. how does " the person Lucas is known to be" conflict with "the fairly clear message of the PT". EDIT: like I am not even trying to make a condescending point or whatever, I just don't know what that sentence means
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Jan 7, 2016 02:27
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greatn posted:Can someone address midi-chlorians who thinks they are good? SMG? Personally I love the phantom Menace but that one part I just don't understand what the movie is going for. Why are they bad, is my question? To me, I find midichlorians interesting because they seem like a clear signal to us that the Jedi are going about this all wrong. Just look everywhere in this thread where people whine about them, and it tends to be because when we're introduced to the Force in ANH it seems so mystical, and then Yoda goes on about it in mystical ways (never mentioning midichlorians to Luke, mind)...and then we jump back a few decades and see that even the rogue in the Jedi Order is yammering on about some sort of science-y explanation. It just *feels* wrong, and everyone keys in on it as if what's wrong is the whole concept, as opposed to perhaps the Jedi Order being a bunch of morons who are barely in touch with what the Force really is anymore. I think there's a very supported reading of the films where we as the audience are *supposed* to think midichlorians are dumb Also, say what you will about SATAN HIMSELF Lucas, but he's pretty clearly a brilliant storyteller and idea-man and super self-aware of Star Wars and its fandom
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Jan 7, 2016 02:28
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Whoever said midichlorians were just like Power Levels in DBZ was spot-on. Only the bad guys ever relied on those numbers.
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Jan 7, 2016 02:30
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So I'm looking to get the blu rays, and episodes 1-3 on Amazon are $35, Episodes 4-6 on Amazon are $35, but the complete saga episode 1-6 is $90. Is there any particular difference why I'd want to pay the extra 20? I just realized the best I've ever seen Star Wars is a laserdisc lower quality than DVD, and the best I've ever seen the prequels apart from the theatre is SD cable.
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Jan 7, 2016 02:33
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Well Lucas himself disallowed any portrayal of Jedi as evil or even morally gray within all EU materials for, last I checked, the whole time he was in possession of the Star Wars IP. He was also vocally critical of EU stories that attempted to introduce moral subtly or nuance into Star Wars. Hell he even re-edited his own film to, famously, remove a bit of nuance from the portrayal of a character that I'm sure I don't need to even say the name of for people to get this reference.
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Jan 7, 2016 02:35
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NecroMonster posted:Well Lucas himself disallowed any portrayal of Jedi as evil or even morally gray within all EU materials for, last I checked, the whole time he was in possession of the Star Wars IP. He was also vocally critical of EU stories that attempted to introduce moral subtly or nuance into Star Wars. Hell he even re-edited his own film to, famously, remove a bit of nuance from the portrayal of a character that I'm sure I don't need to even say the name of for people to get this reference. Star Wars is pro-Jedi propaganda, it's told from their point of view. It will never allow us to view them objectively, but that doesn't mean that the characters themselves aren't nuanced. Star Wars is a story told by an unreliable narrator. We get a preamble before every movie just to make sure we know who the good guys are, lest there ever be any doubt. General Dog fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Jan 7, 2016 |
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Jan 7, 2016 02:47
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NecroMonster posted:Well Lucas himself disallowed any portrayal of Jedi as evil or even morally gray within all EU materials for, last I checked, the whole time he was in possession of the Star Wars IP. He was also vocally critical of EU stories that attempted to introduce moral subtly or nuance into Star Wars. Hell he even re-edited his own film to, famously, remove a bit of nuance from the portrayal of a character that I'm sure I don't need to even say the name of for people to get this reference. Death of the author.
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Jan 7, 2016 02:49
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computer parts posted:I don't really know any of that except the "they died" story. quote:During a Q&A with George Lucas: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3462468&pagenumber=727&perpage=40#post408124622 ?
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Jan 7, 2016 02:50
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I can safely say I have never read about Lucas's stance on the EU, so thank you for clarifying.
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Jan 7, 2016 02:51
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greatn posted:So I'm looking to get the blu rays, and episodes 1-3 on Amazon are $35, Episodes 4-6 on Amazon are $35, but the complete saga episode 1-6 is $90. Is there any particular difference why I'd want to pay the extra 20? It sounds like there are bonus features in the complete set, so if you really like that sort of stuff it might be worth  .
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Jan 7, 2016 02:52
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Given that most of the EU was hot garbage, I can't disagree with Lucas' efforts to troll them.
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Jan 7, 2016 02:53
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Red posted:http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3462468&pagenumber=727&perpage=40#post408124622 ? That's loving awesome
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Jan 7, 2016 02:54
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I can even see him wanting the moral ambiguity of the Jedi to play out in his films rather than some novels where people are going to then go "oh he just ripped that off the Trials of Khandaq series".
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Jan 7, 2016 02:56
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greatn posted:That's loving awesome Is there a :disagreed: emoticon?
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Jan 7, 2016 02:58
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Guy A. Person posted:I can even see him wanting the moral ambiguity of the Jedi to play out in his films rather than some novels where people are going to then go "oh he just ripped that off the Trials of Khandaq series". eeh. Lucas is willing to change his own mind based on his own ideas, it's only when others attempt to guide or shape his ideas that he has problems. But he also isn't ever willing to admit he did change his mind either.
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Jan 7, 2016 03:01
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The Jedi are never particularly immoral, sometimes they are a bit unethical and stupid. I guess the whole slave army is pretty drat immoral... But I'm not sure exactly what the power structure is there? Are they genetically engineered to be loyal, are they actually paid a salary and free to do whatever if they want?
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Jan 7, 2016 03:03
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