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Guy A. Person posted:
I actually do. Luke doesn't affect the outcome of the situation at all, gets wrecked physically and psychologically, has flirtations with the dark side, and almost dies. From the standpoint of having a movie, it's the right one of course because it's far more entertaining.
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Jan 7, 2016 05:48
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But if Luke never had that confrontation with Vader and learned the truth at that precise point, he may never have been able to save Anakin later on. The truth coming out at some other point may have led to even worse consequences. OT Yoda has great insight into the mechanical, technical specifications of the Force, but he's still as bad at applying it in practical, complex, realistic situations as he was in the prequels. Total detachment, hardcore asceticism, does not help anyone. True enlightenment is being able to face the world's problems without breaking, not ignoring personal issues and thinking "Hey that poo poo doesn't affect me because I'm hiding in a swamp, boy am I doing a good job at this Jedi thing."
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Jan 7, 2016 06:09
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Soggy Cereal posted:I actually do. Luke doesn't affect the outcome of the situation at all, gets wrecked physically and psychologically, has flirtations with the dark side, and almost dies. It's the right thing in narrative terms because his attachment to people and his love for others pays off in him redeeming Darth Vader in the third movie. It's the right thing in moral terms because asceticism is always wrong in America/to Americans--Yoda's right, but nobody making or watching the movie would approve of Luke listening to him. Now start talking about that new Star War drat it!
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Jan 7, 2016 06:12
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Jack Gladney posted:It's the right thing in narrative terms because his attachment to people and his love for others pays off in him redeeming Darth Vader in the third movie. It's the right thing in moral terms because asceticism is always wrong in America/to Americans--Yoda's right, but nobody making or watching the movie would approve of Luke listening to him. Eh, it's okay.
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Jan 7, 2016 06:13
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Guy A. Person posted:One of my favorite RLM moments is when he is exasperated because Yoda in ESB says "weapons not make one great" while Obi Wan says "this lightsaber is your life" in AotC.  Between this and the Obi-Wan thing, the more I read about the RLM videos, the more the decision not to watch them seems like a good idea.
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Jan 7, 2016 06:16
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Frackie Robinson posted:Eh, it's okay. Why is Greg Gruenberg so fat? Why?
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Jan 7, 2016 06:16
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The following spoiler is about Han Solo and Kylo Ren and is from TFA. Did "Ben" live with Han for very long? Do we know? He probably was fairly close to Chewbacca too, I imagine? That would be sad for Kylo if his once upon a time Uncle Teddybear shot a hole in his liver.
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Jan 7, 2016 06:17
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Lonely Chewbacca is the saddest thing. Also the main character super-looks like Hugo Weaving when her hair's not in the frame.
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Jan 7, 2016 06:20
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Lord Hydronium posted:
They're not terrible, they make some good observations and make a solid effort at being entertaining, but they are overly long and nit-picky as all hell. If anything its good to see where a lot of the more esoteric complaints about the prequels came from. There was definitely a time when I enjoyed them immensely but they definitely side entirely with the idea that anything that seems inconsistent or dumb to them is a mistake by the filmmakers.
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Jan 7, 2016 06:23
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMXOg-APbGc
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Jan 7, 2016 06:28
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RLM videos are even better if you hate the prequels. Because you will laugh more. And laughing is amazing. Also, George Lucas is weird and Im glad he has poo poo all to do with Star Wars any more.
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Jan 7, 2016 06:29
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BrianWilly posted:But if Luke never had that confrontation with Vader and learned the truth at that precise point, he may never have been able to save Anakin later on. The truth coming out at some other point may have led to even worse consequences. I wouldn't say as bad, but I agree that Luke ends up being the hope of the Jedi because he rejects a lot of the orthodoxy his teachers represent.
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Jan 7, 2016 06:30
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Luke's Force Theme and Rey's Theme together.Beeez posted:I wouldn't say as bad, but I agree that Luke ends up being the hope of the Jedi because he rejects a lot of the orthodoxy his teachers represent.  Ya sure are super right about that.
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Jan 7, 2016 06:39
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The question of whether the Jedi are evil isn't that important compared to their differing interpretations of how God works. For example: all the Jedi believe in the 'chosen one' prophecy; Jedi-ism is a messianic religion. However, Quigon is the only one who endeavors to make the prophecy come true. Yoda and the others are concerned with maintaining the status quo: Yoda: The Chosen One, the boy may be. Nevertheless, grave danger, I fear in his training. This is Yoda literally admitting that this kid might be Jesus Christ but nonetheless rejecting him - because Jedi indoctrination techniques tend to cause older kids to bug out. Yoda knows that all too well, because he's been in charge of that department for decades. And he's not wrong: Anakin is old enough to have vivid memories of of his mother/Padme, which are ultimately the source of his authoritarian streak. Quigon, of course, doesn't care about any of that. He's a full-on fundamentalist who believes the existence of God can be scientifically proven. He believes he's directly enacting God's will - and, therefore, he deliberately manipulates the dice in order to take Anakin from his mother and make him into a warrior. Consequences be damned. And Quigon is also not wrong either, in a sense - because tearing Anakin from his mother is precisely what caused him to eventually become Vader. The 'Chosen One' prophecy was self-fulfilling. Obiwan's inconsistent/hypocritical behaviour stems from the fact that he was taught by both Yoda and Quigon. Now he's trying to reconcile their contradictory lessons.
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Jan 7, 2016 06:45
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BrianWilly posted:Luke's Force Theme and Rey's Theme together. That's "The Force Theme" which is not necessarily Luke's Theme but does play when he's watching the binary sunset in IV.
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Jan 7, 2016 06:48
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Guy A. Person posted:The Jedi of the prequels are definitely supposed to be good guys but increasingly misguided. In episode 1 they stand by while slavery happens because it's out of their jurisdiction (while Qui-Gon pulls a bunch of shady poo poo to get his way with Watto) they train Anakin despite weird feelings because of their Hubris. In the next episode they've slipped further down the moral slope by using a clone army. Episode I has: - Qui-gon Jinn call "these Trade Federation types" (Neimodians) cowards - Jinn and Obi-wan denigrate Jar Jar multiple times - Obi-wan worries about bringing "another pathetic life form" on board - Both refer to Darth Maul as an "it." - Harangue Anakin for worrying about his mother because fear of loss is bad, yet do nothing to ensure her safety and ease his mind. - Dismiss the notion that the Sith could possibly be back because they would know. Episode II has: - Windu and Yoda talk about how they have to conceal from the Senate their diminished ability to see with the Force - "We're keepers of the peace, not soldiers" *cue Jedi charging into battle* - Launch an aggressive war using cloned slaves - Fail to figure out why a star system is missing or worry very much at all about the clones Episode III has: - The Jedi launching a coup against a democratically elected leader in order to protect the Jedi Order - Mace Windu attempts to extrajudicially execute Sheev because he's "too dangerous to be left alive" - Enlist Anakin to spy on Sheev, while also denying him a place on the Council for political reasons There are other things I've probably left out, but they're not unambiguously the good guys at all. They mean well but they definitely come off as out of touch.
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Jan 7, 2016 06:52
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"From my point of view the Jedi are evil!"
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Jan 7, 2016 06:59
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KaptainKrunk posted:There are other things I've probably left out, but they're not unambiguously the good guys at all. They mean well but they definitely come off as out of touch. Yeah, very good points. I guess just because they are Obi Wan and Yoda and the Jedi and they are ultimately the ones trying to protect princesses and "pathetic life forms" (even if they show disdain for them) I put them in the "good guy" bin. But they do start out elitist and out of touch.
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Jan 7, 2016 07:01
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Guy A. Person posted:Yeah, very good points. I guess just because they are Obi Wan and Yoda and the Jedi and they are ultimately the ones trying to protect princesses and "pathetic life forms" (even if they show disdain for them) I put them in the "good guy" bin. But they do start out elitist and out of touch.
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Jan 7, 2016 07:04
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NecroMonster posted:I like how Qui-gon, who is a bit of an idiot and less than great person, is the first guy to "discover" force ghosts. This is just yet another of the stupid loving additions that George never really quite thought out the consequences of. Before this revelation, we all got to enjoy the idea that anyone who is a good person at heart and force sensitive well get to live on in a kind of afterlife, as a part of the force. But no, turns out that for tens of thousands of years all of the Jedi who ever died went to oblivion forever and it was just Qui Gonn who happened to figure out this SUPER IMPORTANT key thing, just in time for Obi Wan to be able to learn it so he can help out Luke 30 years later!
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Jan 7, 2016 07:08
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berserker posted:This is just yet another of the stupid loving additions that George never really quite thought out the consequences of. Before this revelation, we all got to enjoy the idea that anyone who is a good person at heart and force sensitive well get to live on in a kind of afterlife, as a part of the force. But no, turns out that for tens of thousands of years all of the Jedi who ever died went to oblivion forever and it was just Qui Gonn who happened to figure out this SUPER IMPORTANT key thing, just in time for Obi Wan to be able to learn it so he can help out Luke 30 years later! I take it you're not an atheist.
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Jan 7, 2016 07:09
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Jack Gladney posted:Lonely Chewbacca is the saddest thing. How about hot manga Chewbacca?  berserker posted:This is just yet another of the stupid loving additions that George never really quite thought out the consequences of. Before this revelation, we all got to enjoy the idea that anyone who is a good person at heart and force sensitive well get to live on in a kind of afterlife, as a part of the force. But no, turns out that for tens of thousands of years all of the Jedi who ever died went to oblivion forever and it was just Qui Gonn who happened to figure out this SUPER IMPORTANT key thing, just in time for Obi Wan to be able to learn it so he can help out Luke 30 years later! I took it as other Jedis before this had no way to communicate with the living after death, not that they are gone forever.
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Jan 7, 2016 07:11
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But hey, at least now we know that you don't need to be an all around great person or even "redeemed" as one in order to become a force ghost, meaning there is room for force ghosts to be used for story purposes other than... whispering to people and appearing as partially see through old men
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Jan 7, 2016 07:14
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NecroMonster posted:But hey, at least now we know that you don't need to be an all around great person or even "redeemed" as one in order to become a force ghost, meaning there is room for force ghosts to be used for story purposes other than... whispering to people and appearing as partially see through old men Well, we knew that when Yoda became a force ghost.
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Jan 7, 2016 07:23
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Look, just because he's a weird alien doesn't mean he isn't a Person.
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Jan 7, 2016 07:29
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RBA Starblade posted:Red hat alien and peg leg alien were pretty cool, I can't wait for the two dozen books of backstory they somehow get. Jokes on you, they already had a book. They're just making a cameo on TFA.  I wanna read this one based just on the title. I just hope its as cheesily pulpy as the title suggests. 
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Jan 7, 2016 07:39
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Jokes on you, they already had a book. They're just making a cameo on TFA. It sure as hell is! http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sidon_Ithano
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Jan 7, 2016 07:45
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 This screenplay is a masterpiece. Not kidding.
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Jan 7, 2016 07:55
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computer parts posted:I take it you're not an atheist. God is totally dead dude
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Jan 7, 2016 08:01
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The MSJ posted:How about hot manga Chewbacca? 
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Jan 7, 2016 08:05
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BrianWilly posted:
Where can I read it?
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Jan 7, 2016 08:41
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I'll admit that I don't read many movie scripts but "(you son-of-a-bitch)" is a great parenthetical. Also "Ren heads off. Hux hates him."
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Jan 7, 2016 08:46
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Sorry, don't actually know where you can get the whole thing. I've been reading snippets on Tumblr, my seat of power.
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Jan 7, 2016 08:51
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CelticPredator posted:Where can I read it?
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Jan 7, 2016 08:55
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It lines up so drat well with the Emo Kylo Ren twitter.
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Jan 7, 2016 09:03
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The jedi are definitely the good guys. Their sole purpose being fighting the Sith. When there are no more Sith to fight they get shoehorned into some sort of government agency/peacekeeping role, to which they are ill-suited. Having no Sith to fight and their ambiguity of their role in the universe weakens and dulls their powers leaving them woefully unprepared when Palpatine rises to power. They place all their hope in anakin because they literally have no other choice. That is the tragic story of the jedi
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Jan 7, 2016 09:40
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I want to get back to diner-chat. Diners were in fact adapted from dining-car technology - the cars that would feed people on long haul trains could be parked and used to cook just as well from a stable position. They were easy to make and pre-fabricated. But modern day diners exist and are widespread, both in the form of garbage chains like IHOP and Denny's, and a robust culture of Greek immigrants slinging you a wide range of hash with table service, free coffee refills, and moderate prices throughout the Northeastern US. A diner is the exact kind of place where a cop would go, and Obi-Wan is clearly, in Ep II, presented as Jedi Cop. Get out of here with your anti-diner agenda in the Star Wars thread!
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Jan 7, 2016 10:00
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The real question is why wouldn't there be a diner in Star Wars?
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Jan 7, 2016 10:21
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People (and aliens) gotta eat. They also have to pee and poop. Perhaps we'll finally see a bathroom in Episode VIII or IX.
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Jan 7, 2016 10:52
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In Episode II, when Obi-Wan and Anakin go into that Coruscant nightclub/sports bar, there's a monitor in the background depicting a football being hiked to a robot quarterback. I want to know more about Galactic Football in the Star Wars universe.
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Jan 7, 2016 10:55
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