|
blarzgh posted:Do you have any hobbies? Any type of career you might be interested in? Board games, biking, and marital arts if I could find a gym. I'm maybe not so hot on things like biglaw $$$, local DA/defense lawyer stuff. One family friend is a defense attorney for federal capital cases, which seems interesting and he seems to really like it. So something fed. governmentish, or Circuit/clerky type jobs might be fun. I'd be okay (loan repayments notwithstanding) taking a lower-paid but more interesting/less cutthroat/smaller scale. International work also appeals, but I really don't know what that market looks like.
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2016 23:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 20:39 |
|
|
Do you know someone that can guarantee you a job? Are you going into debt for the degree?
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2016 23:22
|
|
|
Mr. Nice! posted:Do you know someone that can guarantee you a job? Are you going into debt for the degree? Haven't put in the apps yet. Still mildly in debt from undergrad, but that's coming down pretty fast. No job guarantees. I already asked, the company my only rich uncle works for has anti-nepotism rules. e: If it helps, % of graduates placed is a thing I'm going to consider before I apply.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2016 23:29
|
|
|
the JJ posted:e: If it helps, % of graduates placed is a thing I'm going to consider before I apply. The numbers US News has for the rankings are inflated bullshit.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2016 23:32
|
|
|
Marital arts? Work on proofreading before you venture into law.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2016 23:34
|
|
|
the JJ posted:Haven't put in the apps yet. Still mildly in debt from undergrad, but that's coming down pretty fast. If you don't have a guaranteed job and will be going into debt it's not really a good idea to go.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2016 23:35
|
|
|
So you don't know what you want to do with your life and you decided that paying 10% of your income to the feds for the next two decades is the best way to find yourself
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2016 23:35
|
|
|
JesustheDarkLord posted:Marital arts? Work on proofreading before you venture into law. Nah man he's just into the same thing toona is
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2016 23:36
|
|
|
mastershakeman posted:Nah man he's just into the same thing toona is Far as I can tell, toona is hard at work at getting out of marital arts and into outsider art.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2016 23:37
|
|
|
mastershakeman posted:So you don't know what you want to do with your life and you decided that paying 10% of your income to the feds for the next two decades is the best way to find yourself Well, if I had it all figured out I sure as hell wouldn't be posting here. If it's 10% of a halfway descent wage then... maybe? I would say that I've talked to a few lawyers, some who hate it some who love it, and although I haven't done their jobs yet at least some of them seemed like they were doing interesting things with their lives. Are you saying I should narrow my goals down to something like "wow, I'd really love to do in-house copyright law" or "I want to do energy regulation in the Southwest" before I consider applying? My concern with that is I might go to the Southwest School of Energy Regulation and then realize I want to work in the Northwest or something. I guess that's why I'm looking at these T14 schools. If (big if, I know) I did get in it seems (again, from the outside) that there would be the flexibility to find an interesting position that you wouldn't get from, say, a local law school that mostly feeds the state DA office and state govt. Is this incorrect? Mr. Nice! posted:If you don't have a guaranteed job and will be going into debt it's not really a good idea to go. OP is if T14 or no debt or no job -> no go. Has the situation deteriorated since then? The idea I've gotten from asking a few other people was that it's worth at least tossing apps at some of the better schools to see how that situation shook out. JesustheDarkLord posted:Marital arts? Work on proofreading before you venture into law. To fair, it's the most fun typo. And a near meaningless distinction on grapple days. I apologize for my phone. Look Sir Droids posted:The numbers US News has for the rankings are inflated bullshit. Are there any not bullshit sources?
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2016 23:58
|
|
|
As always I'll post what I tell people irl: one of my good friends had the following: went to #7 school, had good grades, is very tall (the most important thing in life), good looking, both his parents were lawyers in the area, and he had a biglaw job out of school. Got laid off in crash and unable to find a legal job worth doing where he'd be well compensated without having to put in absurd hours . Doesn't think IBR is going to exist long term so is actually paying on his loans, 4 digits a month, has a miserable social life because he can't afford anything due to said loans. Has given up and is going to go back to grad school shortly because once you're a lawyer you're unemployable for all other jobs Why are you going to succeed where he couldn't? Then I look at my friends: 1 in biglaw, on partner track, never see him and his money all goes to a house he never sees. Miserable but holding out hope for partner to make it all worthwhile. 2 that were appellate defenders with easy but very boring jobs, got sick of not accomplishing anything and went to trial level public defender, where they are also not accomplishing anything and are getting more frustrated daily. All 3 of them talk about how to exit out of law. We were sworn in 8 years ago, it's not even time for our mid life crises. Honestly the only people who should even consider law school are people who can sit for the patent bar and get one of those kickass work from home govt jobs, and even that's super debatable mastershakeman fucked around with this message at 00:05 on Jan 8, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2016 00:02
|
|
|
Above the Law is better for non-bullshit statistics, at least to the extent that their criteria relies on them and they are out in the open. That said, they still depend on the schools' reporting of the numbers, they do their best to break them down to the numbers that actually matter but it's still imperfect. In my opinion they are still the best at weeding out reporting bias. With your LSAT you will assuredly get into at least a few T-14 schools. The problem you have is that your numbers aren't good enough to compete for the full-rides from the T-14s so you really will want to toss some applications toward high ranked T-1s. The name of the game should be lowest possible debt load at a good school. Ignore reputation and supposed specialities.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2016 00:06
|
|
|
mastershakeman posted:As always I'll post what I tell people irl: While not encouraging this dude to go to law school, your anecdote hinges a lot on getting laid off after the 2008 debacle. The legal industry has largely corrected itself away from that and it's unlikely to happen again. At least not very soon. What's more important is did you friend even like that job before getting laid off? The other thing to consider is you're just relying on being in the top 5-10% of your law school class. A lot of your law school grades aren't up to you or as much in your control as you'd expect. Check out Toona's incoming Bs. Plenty of very smart people lose this coin flip. Pook Good Mook posted:With your LSAT you will assuredly get into at least a few T-14 schools. The problem you have is that your numbers aren't good enough to compete for the full-rides from the T-14s so you really will want to toss some applications toward high ranked T-1s. The name of the game should be lowest possible debt load at a good school. Ignore reputation and supposed specialities. Yeah. Your GPA is going to knock you out of free money in a lot of cases. Admissions doesn't pay that much attention to upward trajectory. You started undergrad poorly, why wouldn't you also start law school poorly? My advice would be get a good idea of what type of lawyer you want to be. Also figure out where you'd like to live. Apply to T14 and apply to Tier 1 schools in the state you'd like to live in. If there are no Tier 1 schools in that state, choose to live somewhere else or don't go. Look Sir Droids fucked around with this message at 00:15 on Jan 8, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2016 00:11
|
|
|
I still don't get people who just want to "be a lawyer". I like my job - and I'm in the minority. But I'll still tell you that being a lawyer sucks. Edit: I guess what I'm saying is. Yes, try to have an idea of what it means to be a certain kind of lawyer and know that you would be happier doing that for 10 years than something else. errad fucked around with this message at 00:16 on Jan 8, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2016 00:14
|
|
|
the JJ posted:Board games, biking, and marital arts if I could find a gym. the JJ posted:I'm maybe not so hot on things like biglaw $$$, local DA/defense lawyer stuff. the JJ posted:One family friend is a defense attorney for federal capital cases, which seems interesting and he seems to really like it. the JJ posted:So something fed. governmentish, or Circuit/clerky type jobs might be fun. I'd be okay (loan repayments notwithstanding) taking a lower-paid but more interesting/less cutthroat/smaller scale.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2016 00:15
|
|
|
the JJ posted:Board games, biking, and marital arts if I could find a gym. This sounds kind of generic and boring so maybe you need to go to law school to find some meaning in life. Your scores are good enough to get into a school with likeminded nerds, and you'll probably get some enjoyment out of learning in the most crappy and boring way imaginable. Don't bother trying to find the right "program" just go with a t14 in a place you want to live if you really want to do this. You won't get an international law job and if you do it'll suck. I'm premising my answer on you not having much else going on in life, but I guess I should ask what you do now and why you want to not do that anymore.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2016 00:16
|
|
|
errad posted:I still don't get people who just want to "be a lawyer". I like my job - and I'm in the minority. But I'll still tell you that being a lawyer sucks. That's what most of this thread would tell you. "My job's pretty neat. I get to do fun things. I kind of like it. Sometimes I make money. But god drat does it suck." For reals, if you want to look interesting, use your marital arts, take an amateur fight, lose spectacularly and call yourself an amateur fighter on your application. I did one fight in my life and put amateur fighter on my application and that's all anyone talked about. But I didn't get hired because my grades were just ok and the economy was poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2016 00:17
|
|
|
And that's the other thing bigshot high LSAT score man. You're smart. Do something great with your life that will also make you happy. It can be found as a lawyer. It's easier to find outside of law. Unless you're a very special type - and you're probably not. Edit: I mean, for some people it really works to be a lawyer. For a lot more, it doesn't. but it's possible... if it were me I'd think long and hard. And that edit was caused by my lawyer paranoia about giving bad information. errad fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Jan 8, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2016 00:20
|
|
|
Look Sir Droids posted:While not encouraging this dude to go to law school, your anecdote hinges a lot on getting laid off after the 2008 debacle. The legal industry has largely corrected itself away from that and it's unlikely to happen again. At least not very soon. What's more important is did you friend even like that job before getting laid off? Of course not. I don't think anyone likes biglaw, there's just some people that the money really motivates.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2016 00:24
|
|
|
mastershakeman posted:Of course not. I don't think anyone likes biglaw, there's just some people that the money really motivates. I do, but it's mostly because I'm somewhere where I like the people and I only have to work on high end patent litigations (with a bit of prosecution.) If I was somewhere where I spent half my time doing doc review I'd have quit despite liking the people, and if the people I work with weren't genuinely likable I'd have quit despite liking the work. E: let me summarize. Law is a profession where if everything goes perfectly and you have the right personality, it can be great! Or, if any one little condition isn't right, you'll be miserable and probably wind up as an alcoholic. Kalman fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Jan 8, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2016 00:28
|
|
|
CaptainScraps posted:For reals, if you want to look interesting, use your marital arts, take an amateur fight, lose spectacularly and call yourself an amateur fighter on your application. I did one fight in my life and put amateur fighter on my application and that's all anyone talked about. This is the best advice. Last year all people cared about was the fact that I did fencing. Something that makes you stand out really matters.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2016 00:38
|
|
|
mastershakeman posted:
I made $175k last year in my underwear
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2016 01:04
|
|
|
mastershakeman posted:Honestly the only people who should even consider law school are people who can sit for the patent bar and get one of those kickass work from home govt jobs, and even that's super debatable Debatable for sure. If you can sit for the parent bar and think you might want to work in IP, you can just get a job as a patent agent right away instead of going through law school before finding out whether you even like patents. (I love patents, but i suspect most people wouldn't)
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2016 01:31
|
|
|
WhiskeyJuvenile posted:I made $175k last year in my underwear But how much did you earn from your law job?
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2016 01:32
|
|
|
Phil Moscowitz posted:I've said it before but that judge sounds like a kind but firm mom dealing with a lying child, she totally outmaneuvers him in the nicest way. That judge is the absolute epitome of professionalism. I can't imagine being so polite and calm if someone wandered into a courtroom drunk on a case where a guy was looking at life. the JJ posted:International work also appeals Do you have even the vaguest idea what "international work" is? The answer is no, no you don't. Why would you waste that much time and money pursuing a career you know nothing about? I can practically guarantee what you're imagining it is doesn't exist. You've already talked yourself out of every realistic job you could get, you're lukewarm on jobs you probably won't get, and the only job you find appealing is fictional. Even with a full ride, which you won't get with your GPA, you've wasted three years of your life. Bail now before you start talking yourself into doubling down on this horrible idea. errad posted:And that's the other thing bigshot high LSAT score man. You're smart. Do something great with your life that will also make you happy. What this guy said.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2016 01:33
|
|
|
Some quality Canadian content right here... http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/federal-court-judge-robin-camp-inquiry-1.3393539"Justice Camp" posted:The other is the notorious sexual assault trial where Camp repeatedly called the 19-year-old complainant "the accused" and asked her why she didn't just keep her knees together or move in such a way that her alleged attacker couldn't penetrate her. He said that "sex and pain sometimes go together, that — that's not necessarily a bad thing."
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2016 01:39
|
|
|
I can offer some perspective. 171, 3.1 GPA. I went for the best regional school I could get into with the best scholarship I could get. Got into a low T14, but didn't go because the debt load was horrible. You're looking for a few things. One, a chance at a job. That requires that you get better grades than everyone else in your school, or you are good at networking (i.e. Hanging out drinking with insufferable people) and don't mind being poor for three or five years after school. The grades thing is mostly out of your control, but perversely your low GPA helps because, if you can work like you did in late undergrad, you'll do better than others in your class. Maybe. If you get lucky and law clicks. Two, you want to be at a school that has a chance at getting you a job. That means T14 or the biggest fish in the smallest pond around that has enough water to swim in. Since I've killed that analogy, let me explain. George Washington is a terrible choice because it's like the third ranked DC area school and also all of HYS want to work in DC. And a GW degree is quasi useless outside of DC. In contrast, a degree from the leading school in Denver or where ever puts you at the only school in a relatively decent market. You're still competing against T14 grads who want to come home (middle/low end UVA grads are notorious in Colorado and Utah, for instance), but at least if you're in thee top 5-10% you have a shot. And if not, you're the only school in the area so networking with alums and classmates is easier in five years. BUT those regional T1's ARE NOT MOBILE. So be loving sure you want to live in Montana before going there. This is also easier in the west because states and people are farther apart. Three, you want a school that can find jobs for people. Check those jobs rankings people were talking about. It's hard to think you'll be in the top 10%, do see if you can get a bimodal income graph for the graduates and plan on being in the middle of the lower hump. That's the income chance. Fourth, you have to try to minimize debt. This will counterbalance making less money. It will also make it easier to leave law when you realize it is terrible. It also makes it easier to try to be a solo practitioner who has a net income of zero for eighteen months after graduating. In any event, that means looking at state schools, getting scholarships that are not contingent on grades, getting in state citizenship status,and not blowing your loans on bullshit all through school. Together, this is part of why going for low end of T14 without a scholarship is tough. The jobs pictures are likely a bit better than the upper regional schools, and way better if you want to be able to love anywhere in the country (nobody in Vermont gives a gently caress about New Mexicos schools) but you pay through the nose and will get worse grades. But regional schools are risky too, because if you gently caress up and don't get a job or good grades you have lost the ability to get use out of a degree only useful in your lovely corner o the world.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2016 01:56
|
|
|
3.2 / 173, went to Michigan, learned how to play cards and met my wife (not in law school that would be terrible), practiced for a year before realizing how boring/terrible law was and moonwalking away, A+++++ would attend in order to never practice law again (I say just before making yet another student loan payment for what objectively turned out to be a complete waste of time) Don't go, etc
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2016 02:01
|
|
|
I really like my job, but it's because I'm A Big Old Commie like joat mon and enjoy beating my head against a massive state bureaucracy on the small chance that it will help someone, which it probably won't.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2016 02:34
|
|
|
Kalman posted:Far as I can tell, toona is hard at work at getting out of marital arts and into outsider art. bravo
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2016 02:39
|
|
|
You had better intern at a really intensive law firm before even filling out your first application. Quietly learn through osmosis what the average number of divorces per attorney are. At mine, its 1.75.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2016 02:45
|
|
|
the JJ posted:Board games, biking, and marital arts if I could find a gym. BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2016 02:47
|
|
|
I went to law school because I had a useless MA and a lawyer once helped my family when we were poor. "I'll do that" I said. "I'll help the poor." I moved to rural Texas and helped the poor for two years before bouncing to state government work. I now collect debts owed to one state agency by poor people and also evict them from state...acquired...housing. I also work on million dollar cases (which is the only part of my job where I get to feel like I'm a good person because I can save the state millions). My job is awesome but I'm literally being given cases now because "hot dog day has no heart, he'll do anything!" My standard advice is you should only go to law school if you're okay with only making $30,000 a year for the rest of your life doing child support cases.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2016 02:53
|
|
|
Oh hey Dallas lawyers, I was listening to BOOM 94.5 today while rushing to make my love field flight and I heard an advertisement for a child support lawyer that kind of rapped "if you got a case if you got a case." Scraps, when will we hear your rap appealing to the populace?
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2016 02:55
|
|
|
I saw a big billboard back home in Amarillo that had a pot leaf and said "got weed? Busted for possession call 800-something"
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2016 03:06
|
|
|
I just want to say I still lurk this thread and that the general terribleness of it (and each of you, individually) reminds me every day that I made the right decision to not go to law school back in 2009. otoh, I just sent in a PhD application, so I will still probably die alone and jobless
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2016 03:35
|
|
|
Hot Dog Day #91 posted:Oh hey Dallas lawyers, I was listening to BOOM 94.5 today while rushing to make my love field flight and I heard an advertisement for a child support lawyer that kind of rapped "if you got a case if you got a case." Scraps, when will we hear your rap appealing to the populace? I know the lewisville ones who do the Hot Legal Opinions on the ticket
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2016 03:40
|
|
|
Petey posted:I just want to say I still lurk this thread and that the general terribleness of it (and each of you, individually) reminds me every day that I made the right decision to not go to law school back in 2009. Humanities PhD? If so, then yes.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2016 03:54
|
|
|
The Dagda posted:Humanities PhD? If so, then yes. Social science, but it still probably doesn't matter, because Everything Is Terrible
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2016 03:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 6, 2024 20:39 |
|
|
Petey posted:Social science, but it still probably doesn't matter, because Everything Is Terrible My wife is an ABD and that was possibly a worse decision than law school.
|
|
#
?
Jan 8, 2016 04:38
|
|