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I'm running a quick game for friends while one of them gets his campaign ready, so I thought I'd run the premade out of the back of the F&D core book. Has anyone here played through that? Any suggestions for improvements or things to look out for/keep in mind?
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Jan 7, 2016 22:41
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I question a force user with the Spec tree of "Executioner". Maybe I'm just bringing in too much common-usage-definitional baggage...but that just seems a little dark as a name. On the other hand, I'm gonna theorycraft at least 3 Hermit characters.
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Jan 7, 2016 23:01
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jivjov posted:I question a force user with the Spec tree of "Executioner". Maybe I'm just bringing in too much common-usage-definitional baggage...but that just seems a little dark as a name. The game's not been shy so far about potential dark-sider-y specializations, really.
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Jan 7, 2016 23:12
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unseenlibrarian posted:The game's not been shy so far about potential dark-sider-y specializations, really. True...but "executioner" just seems pretty explicit. About the only thing 'worse' would be an Assassin tree.
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Jan 7, 2016 23:15
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jivjov posted:True...but "executioner" just seems pretty explicit. About the only thing 'worse' would be a
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Jan 7, 2016 23:17
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jivjov posted:True...but "executioner" just seems pretty explicit. About the only thing 'worse' would be an Assassin tree. Doesn't seem too out of place, considering the Aggressor tree, which has a talent that adds conflict for using.
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Jan 7, 2016 23:19
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alg posted:Seeker book for F&D: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/1/7/savage-spirits/ So this is to help people play as Not-Rey then, basically.
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Jan 7, 2016 23:33
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Also any F&D character could pick up the Assassin specialization from EOTE if they wanted.
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Jan 7, 2016 23:34
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So I asked on the FFG Facebook page for a hint on one of the new species options. I was told "Think tall and with 6 limbs". Possibly Codru-Ji? unseenlibrarian posted:Also any F&D character could pick up the Assassin specialization from EOTE if they wanted. True enough. And I'm totally down with throwing the dark siders or otherwise morally ambiguous a bone.
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Jan 7, 2016 23:37
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From what I've seen the system seems to discourage going to the Dark Side if you're a Force user. I could be wrong (and probably am since I've only read the Edge of the Empire source material) but it seems like running a Force and Destiny campaign with a bunch of antagonistic jerks as players would be a very short game. Is there any word on any sort of Dark Side campaign, or are groups with jerks as players better suited for EotE and AoR campaigns?
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Jan 7, 2016 23:50
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It doesn't really discourage you, it's just easier if you pick one side. Using the wrong side (light if dark, dark if light) requires flipping a destiny point, and take strain(/conflict if Light) equal to the points used. Conflict determines how you go up/down the Morality scale. Darksiders also have less strain threshold but higher wound. Light just get higher strain threshold.
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Jan 7, 2016 23:57
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FuriousAngle posted:From what I've seen the system seems to discourage going to the Dark Side if you're a Force user. I could be wrong (and probably am since I've only read the Edge of the Empire source material) but it seems like running a Force and Destiny campaign with a bunch of antagonistic jerks as players would be a very short game. Oh its certainly possible to run as a full-time darksider. You'll be riding your strain threshold really hard...but that's pretty thematically appropriate (and much nicer than 'You can no longer play your character, hand your sheet to the GM to be used as an antagonist NPC' from older RPG lines.)
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Jan 7, 2016 23:58
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DemonMage posted:It doesn't really discourage you, it's just easier if you jivjov posted:Oh its certainly possible to run Thanks! Yeah, I was worried it was one of those things where your character just straight up defects to the NPC camp, takes on a new name, and starts wearing all-black. It's good to know a Force-sensitive campaign is a possibility... I guess everyone just has to be on the same page about it. You can't really have a group with both Light Side and Dark Side users, can you?
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Jan 8, 2016 00:01
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jivjov posted:Oh its certainly possible to run as a full-time darksider. You'll be riding your strain threshold really hard...but that's pretty thematically appropriate (and much nicer than 'You can no longer play your character, hand your sheet to the GM to be used as an antagonist NPC' from older RPG lines.) Why do you say you'd be riding your strain threshold really hard? You only lose 2 strain threshold and you're a little more likely to get a dark side result, so you're less tempted to use light points (though they more often come up doubles). FuriousAngle posted:Thanks! Yeah, I was worried it was one of those things where your character just straight up defects to the NPC camp, takes on a new name, and starts wearing all-black. It's good to know a Force-sensitive campaign is a possibility... I guess everyone just has to be on the same page about it. You can't really have a group with both Light Side and Dark Side users, can you? Mechanically you'd be fine. Having a dark/light person only affects the destiny points at the start of a game (I mean you flip to use the wrong side, but that's as valid a use as any other), Morality is a personal mechanic. Story wise that's up to you, but would definitely present issues potentially (which could be fun of course). DemonMage fucked around with this message at 00:06 on Jan 8, 2016 |
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Jan 8, 2016 00:02
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DemonMage posted:Why do you say you'd be riding your strain threshold really hard? You only lose 2 strain threshold and you're a little more likely to get a dark side result, so you're less tempted to use light points (though they more often come up doubles). Well, on top of the loss of 1-2 off the top of your strain threshold, I would think thematically and story-telling wise, you're more likely to suffer some strain from "doing evil stuff", but of course that will be at the discretion of the GM. That plus I would think being Dark Side would lead you to direct combat a bit more often, which tends to generate strain (either from bad rolls or combat talents that require strain to activate)
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Jan 8, 2016 00:11
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Don't need to do evil to be dark, but if evil is the normal state for a character they shouldn't be suffering strain for it. Though if the rest of the party is otherwise do-gooders, you could have a real problem on your hands as you fight your instincts to be a murdering rear end in a top hat or whatever, generating strain from otherwise safe activities. But that's all up to the campaign and the GM, and as long as everybody's on board for struggle, or moral ambiguity, or just straight up evil, you should be good to go!
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Jan 8, 2016 00:19
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OTOH, being a stressed out mess that close to snapping is pretty much how Dark Jedi are supposed to be?
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Jan 8, 2016 00:21
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Keeping to canonical material, that doesn't really seem to be how they're portrayed generally. None of the Inquisitors are like that on Rebels, Vader and Palpatine weren't really like that in the movies. If you go beyond that, you're firmly in the area of GM Fiat and they can be however the gently caress you want them to be.
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Jan 8, 2016 00:33
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Dark side dose not have be be the black robe evil. You can be the "bad things for good reasons" type who thinks nothing of bleeding the Empire and it's people, the calculating "a group of friends is a powerful weapon" type who uses the other PC's as a bodyguard etc etc.
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Jan 8, 2016 00:59
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Iceclaw posted:OTOH, being a stressed out mess that close to snapping is pretty much how Dark Jedi are supposed to be? Kinda describes Anakin at times during the clone wars series.
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Jan 8, 2016 02:26
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Kinda describes Anakin at times during the clone wars series. Or Kylo Ren.
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Jan 8, 2016 03:08
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Vader constantly loses his cool and kills subordinates for failures, he just comes across better because of his voice. Hell he choked a guy just for needling him a bit in New Hope and had to be restrained by Tarkin. Vader is a voice actor away from being Homer Simpson as to how he handles stress.
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Jan 8, 2016 03:12
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remusclaw posted:Vader constantly loses his cool and kills subordinates for failures, he just comes across better because of his voice. Hell he choked a guy just for needling him a bit in New Hope and had to be restrained by Tarkin. It wasn't just his voice. His body language was very cool and collected, as well.
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Jan 8, 2016 03:27
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Vader thinks he's cool, but he loses it whenever things go wrong. He poses, dramatically flourishes his cape, makes witty one liners, and turns to violence or walks off in a huff as soon as things don't go his way. Edit: Which is fine because he's a republic serial villain.
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Jan 8, 2016 03:38
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remusclaw posted:walks off in a huff as soon as things don't go his way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L3uPvslAMw He sounds so done with this poo poo.  And who can blame him given his son chose death over him?
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Jan 8, 2016 03:48
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My favorite Vader moment was where Luke chooses to fall from the overhang in Bespin rather than join him. He just slumps his shoulders and looks like he's thinking "Well... poo poo." It's so uncharacteristic for him and it REALLY looks like he's done with that poo poo.
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Jan 8, 2016 04:07
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FuriousAngle posted:From what I've seen the system seems to discourage going to the Dark Side if you're a Force user. I could be wrong (and probably am since I've only read the Edge of the Empire source material) but it seems like running a Force and Destiny campaign with a bunch of antagonistic jerks as players would be a very short game. It is, in fact, the opposite; Dark Side users are explicitly more powerful and better then Light Side users due to how the force die is set up. Funny enough, before F&D's weird and not entirely thought out morality system, it wasn't as bad, as non-dark side Force characters could pony up some strain to change the dice chits. With the weird morality system though, each time you do so, it ALSO pulls you closre to the dark side. The end result is that Sith very literally are better at using the force then Jedi are. Sorry good guys - the Force DOES lean one way.
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Jan 8, 2016 04:08
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ProfessorCirno posted:It is, in fact, the opposite; Dark Side users are explicitly more powerful and better then Light Side users due to how the force die is set up. I seem to remember that the Dark Side was more of a short term power, while the Light Side had a longer shelf life. Something from the EU where Palpatine's body kept burning out from constantly drawing on Dark Side energy. And before Lucas screwed with the canon it was suggested that Vader might have needed all the life support apparatus due to him using the Dark Side as well. Yoda lived for over 900 years probably because of his race, but also because he was a friggin' Light Side master. It wasn't until he stopped using the Light Side in exile that he started going downhill.
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Jan 8, 2016 04:15
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I could almost read it as a way of of defining the results of living one way or the other. The violence and power grabbing inherent to dark side philosophy often leads to short term power but also tends to result in the adherents of that philosophy eating their own. While the philosophy of the Jedi is more peaceful and likely to result in longer lives and more stable situations. See for example the Republic which stood for a thousand generations versus the Empire which comparatively is a flash in the pan.
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Jan 8, 2016 04:20
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jivjov posted:So I asked on the FFG Facebook page for a hint on one of the new species options. I was told "Think tall and with 6 limbs". What About Besalisk?
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Jan 8, 2016 04:32
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I was thinking Besalisk too.
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Jan 8, 2016 04:38
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FuriousAngle posted:I seem to remember that the Dark Side was more of a short term power, while the Light Side had a longer shelf life. Something from the EU where Palpatine's body kept burning out from constantly drawing on Dark Side energy. And before Lucas screwed with the canon it was suggested that Vader might have needed all the life support apparatus due to him using the Dark Side as well. Yoda lived for over 900 years probably because of his race, but also because he was a friggin' Light Side master. It wasn't until he stopped using the Light Side in exile that he started going downhill. remusclaw posted:I could almost read it as a way of of defining the results of living one way or the other. The violence and power grabbing inherent to dark side philosophy often leads to short term power but also tends to result in the adherents of that philosophy eating their own. While the philosophy of the Jedi is more peaceful and likely to result in longer lives and more stable situations. Sure sure, the fluff is whatever. Mechanically speaking, because of the way the dice are set up, it is in fact the opposite. The Dark Side is more consistent and usually more powerful, the Light Side has occasional sudden bursts of power amidst a lot of loving up. The more force dice you have the more pronounced this gets.
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Jan 8, 2016 04:45
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Servetus posted:What About Besalisk? They're showing up in the Technician book. Of course, its possible they're in both...but I can dream.
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Jan 8, 2016 04:48
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ProfessorCirno posted:Sure sure, the fluff is whatever. Mechanically speaking, because of the way the dice are set up, it is in fact the opposite. The Dark Side is more consistent and usually more powerful, the Light Side has occasional sudden bursts of power amidst a lot of loving up. The more force dice you have the more pronounced this gets. Yeah, it makes sense. Like Yoda said, it's "quicker" and "easier." I guess it's the GM's duty to make sure they're suitably challenged for making the decision to go with the more seductive route. But mechanics-wise, wouldn't a Dark Side Force user swing the Force Points back towards the Light Side, taking away from the pool the GM would be able to use? I haven't finished reading the mechanics on Force use (since I'm only running a EotE campaign at first) so I'm not entirely sure how it works exactly.
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Jan 8, 2016 04:50
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FuriousAngle posted:Yeah, it makes sense. Like Yoda said, it's "quicker" and "easier." I guess it's the GM's duty to make sure they're suitably challenged for making the decision to go with the more seductive route. Not really? The way using the force works is simple; you roll force die equal to your force rating, count the pips. If you're DARK SIDED, you count those; if you're light sided, etc. The problem is the way the dice is set up; there are substantially more dark side faces on the die then there are light side, with the light side faces more often having two pips instead of one. This means dark side force users will be vastly more consistent - there are far higher odds for them to succeed at using the force then the light side. On the other side, when the light side DOES win it's roll, it tends to have more pips then the dark side. The problem is threefold. For starters, not having pips means you just loving fail, the end. Unlike the other die there's no "fail at bonus" or "succeed at cost." If you look at the other die, they're likewise somewhat weighted in their faces - given entirely even odds, you are most likely going to succeed at cost (which, you know, FITS EotE perfectly, of a bunch of Han Solo-rear end motherfuckers who win by the skin of their teeth but just made all their debts even worse in doing so. You escape the Imperial blockade, and watch your cargo vanish as you hit hyperspace). But when using the force, it's just...nope. Sorry. You're a good guy, so you fail. You don't do it. No, nothing interesting happens, gently caress off, you just failed. Secondly, multiple pips doesn't always actually MATTER. Most force powers are simple: roll the die. Do you get at least one pip? You succeed! The end. Light side jedi are far more likely to have all those awesome extra pips do absolutely nothing. Their sudden blasts of power...don't exist. Now, once you start pumping more and more experience into powers you get more things to spend those pips on, but this just adds to the frustration of lower level play where you find yourself consistently doing jack poo poo. Third...frankly, it DOESN'T match the fluff. The fluff these mechanics create state that the sith are frankly just plain better at using the Force. It's not so much quicker and easier as it is more consistent - the Force literally favors them. It's...well, it's REVERSED. The light side force is sudden, big, and short - flash in the pan. Sith power is everlasting and stable. The whole thing reeks of crowbaring the system into dice it wasn't meant to really support. The force die are really weird compared to the rest of the game, and while they work just fine for setting up destiny points and the like, they're absolutely terrible for class abilities. Everything else in FFG is set around "when you roll the dice, SOMETHING interesting is going to happen." But that's not true for force powers. It's entirely binary in a way nothing else is - you succeed or fail. And it's weighed towards failure. And even when you DO succeed by a giant magnitude, it...doesn't actually mean anything.
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Jan 8, 2016 05:06
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I can argue the "sometimes you roll and nothing happens", and there is something to be said for the buildup over time of things to spend pips on. For a fresh, early Force user, there is definitely a 'temptation' to use Dark Side pips. You're only rolling one or two dice, some rolls are only going to have the dark pips and sometimes you just have to spend them in order to make the Force work. There will never be a situation where you flat out cannot use a Force power. There's always the option of taking conflict and using the Dark Pips. But then, as you grow and spend XP, you'll potentially have more dice to sling around and a greater chance of having enough white pips to not need to tap into the dark side, and the more light pips you have the bigger and more powerful things you can pull off.
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Jan 8, 2016 05:12
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jivjov posted:I can argue the "sometimes you roll and nothing happens", and there is something to be said for the buildup over time of things to spend pips on. For a fresh, early Force user, there is definitely a 'temptation' to use Dark Side pips. You're only rolling one or two dice, some rolls are only going to have the dark pips and sometimes you just have to spend them in order to make the Force work. There will never be a situation where you flat out cannot use a Force power. There's always the option of taking conflict and using the Dark Pips. But then, as you grow and spend XP, you'll potentially have more dice to sling around and a greater chance of having enough white pips to not need to tap into the dark side, and the more light pips you have the bigger and more powerful things you can pull off. I'm guessing that's where the drama aspect of the roleplaying can come in. If you just run the game based on the system, then yeah, the Dark Side is way better. But thematically, the GM can say "Okay fine, you're giving in and slowly using the Dark Side more and more for your own ends. No problem. Here are the complications that come from it." Again, this is all thematic. There are situational aspects of the Dark Side that make it dangerous and not a great long-term investment. Take the Sith, for instance. There can only be two of them. That means you're constantly fighting for your place at the table or else you get cut in half, decapitated, or murdered by your apprentice. Not only that, but it gets more and more difficult for you to control your emotions. Choosing the quick and easy path might seem like a good idea at the time, but in the long run those decisions NEVER pay off in any sort of story.
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Jan 8, 2016 05:26
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Even when there are only two of them they seem ready to throw the other one to the wolves at a moments notice. One of the key strengths of the force's better half is the ability to rely on ones friends. Can anyone think of a better way to say it than "Light Side of the Force"? Dark side works fine but Light Side just sounds off. remusclaw fucked around with this message at 05:46 on Jan 8, 2016 |
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Jan 8, 2016 05:43
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remusclaw posted:Even when there are only two of them they seem ready to throw the other one to the wolves at a moments notice. One of the key strengths of the force's better half is the ability to rely on ones friends. I've never understood the resistance to the term "light side" Its the obvious inverse of 'dark side', and Episode VII keeps harping on about light as the antithesis to darkness. At least for me, reducing it to "The Force, oh and the Dark Side" just seemed off.
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Jan 8, 2016 05:47
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There is more to the Dark Side than just the Sith. EG: The Imperial Inquisition and the Nightsisters of Dathomir (TCW ver.)
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Jan 8, 2016 05:50
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