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Killua's ability has a huge downside in that charging your body with electricity is immensely painful. He isn't really bothered by electricity but that just means he is accustomed to the pain. Killua still feels all of it. The other limitation is of course that he needs to be around civilization to recharge quickly. Out in the wilderness, he only gets what, one shot a day? Killua was just incredibly clever in his choice of ability, I guess. gimme the GOD DAMN candy fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Jan 8, 2016 |
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Jan 8, 2016 05:38
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Gyges posted:Probably when he realized that he wanted a really powerful ability. Kurapika talked about it with Gon and Killua that the more restrictions you place on an ability, the more powerful it becomes. It's like how Gon gave up his life and abilities in exchange for being fast forwarded to the point in his life where he would be powerful enough to stomp Pitou into the ground. Yeah Killuas ability in particular requires extremely specific and extensive experience with electricity to the point where you won;t feel the pain while using it, which I imagine is close to impossible for most people in the series to learn. Even Bisuke was shocked that anyone, let alone someone at his age would be able to use electricity as their hatsu. Manipulators,Specialists and Conjurers would probably have the roughest time coming up with suitable abilities because you have to devise all these rules to make your ability any decent at all and even then you will always have to branch out into other nen types to make them work effectively.
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Jan 8, 2016 05:40
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Serious Frolicking posted:That was because of using nen? I thought it was due to guilt over killing Pakunoda. I guess you could interpret it as him being delirious and then seeing the people he killed instead of becoming delirious after killing people. That would be in character for 1999 anime Kurapica, but I didn't get the impression 2011/manga Kurapica felt any regret about killing Phantom Troupe members.
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Jan 8, 2016 05:56
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On Killua, it's also that he was familiar with electricity; not only could he endure it, he knew it to the point that he could change his aura into it. Which adds to the whole "wow that's actually pretty hosed up" thing. As for Manipulators/Specialists/Conjurers, remember that Kurapika's learning to make his chains involved his always having chains on him, feeling them, carrying them, even tasting them, to the point that he eventually started imagining them in his dreams, and when he finally made them it wasn't a conscious effort but literally waking up with them there. Wing, of course, stated that this is not a good way to do things, but, it as definitely effective. Also kind of similar to Killua and electricity, now that I think about it. As for branching out, well, it depends. Emission is probably necessary to an extent with many types of Manipulation, but they're adjacent so that's not too bad. A lot of Manipulators we've seen used pure Manipulation, beyond possibly the necessary Emission to have the things separate from themselves. As for Conjurers, well, that's really variable. Like, Kurapika's Dowsing Chain is pure Conjuration, for example, but is still extremely effective. Blinky, Shizuku's vacuum, is probably nothing but Conjuration as well. They definitely likely have the hardest time with making abilities though, because good Conjuration abilities are not straightforward or simple usually. As Kurapika's teacher said, just making a really good sword is pointless, because you could go out and buy a sword. You want to make something useful and unique, and thus need to be creative with what you do. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Jan 8, 2016 |
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Jan 8, 2016 05:59
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Yeah, Killua would still have terrifying potential and amazing application ability in any context, but because he was raised by a family of immensely hosed up assassins his experiences put him in a place that elevates his powers even further. Kurapika similarly wouldn't be near as good as he is if he wasn't obsessively driven by the massacre of his clan and his burning hatred of the Phantom Troupe. Wanting to catch them while also being bound to the fate of his clan and desire for justice probably had a lot to do with his choice of chain obsession. Interestingly Gon's background both hurts and helps him as an enhancer. Yes, he's already got an incredible physical base, but he's got no real academic intelligence to go with it. Without the help of his friends to explain things to him he wouldn't be able to tap into more than a small fraction of his potential.
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Jan 8, 2016 06:11
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Butt Ghost posted:Wow that's a really inconvenient series of requirements. I'm surprised he can get any skills at all, let alone decent ones. Considering the first thing he does upon fighting the worlds two greatest assassins is try and murder them with a knife he's probably a decent enhancer too. Also considering that most nen-users don't start off as a specialist he probably has some other technique he developed beforehand.
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Jan 8, 2016 06:40
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I want to see Chrollo's other technique. Too bad HunterXHunter will never continue.
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Jan 8, 2016 06:48
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Stairmaster posted:Considering the first thing he does upon fighting the worlds two greatest assassins is try and murder them with a knife he's probably a decent enhancer too. Also considering that most nen-users don't start off as a specialist he probably has some other technique he developed beforehand. That fight was actually really odd to me; Chrollo seemed a lot more playful and happy than he normally does, and also, of all the abilities he has, took out the Owl's trick there, as if, rather than picking something effective for the battle, he wanted to play with his new toy. It's a neat fight, to be sure, but Chrollo seems so different from everything we see before or after that I don't quite know what to make of it. The Zoldycks coming in, nearly killing the main villain of the arc, then leaving is also pretty bizarre from a narrative standpoint, but, that's less odd to me than Chrollo flopping down on the ground afterwards and reflecting on his loss like a child who lost a game. This is pretty tangential, it's just that's something about the moment you mentioned that always bothered me. Did anyone else notice that when reading/watching that part of the series?
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Jan 8, 2016 06:48
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Butt Ghost posted:Too bad HunterXHunter will never continue. At this point Togashi really needs to just give written general plot outlines to the creators of the anime and let them run with it. I'd make him a bunch of money and not be that burdensome an undertaking. Not having watched HxH 2011, it's really strange to see that reinforcement, materialization etc have been replaced with enhacer, conjurer etc. Plus I don't recognise the spelling of many names. Were these translation changes due to something official? Or just the decision of whoever happened to sub the show this time? Also, super disappointed they changed the awesome sound affect of nen from HxH 1999.
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Jan 8, 2016 06:53
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Butt Ghost posted:Wow that's a really inconvenient series of requirements. I'm surprised he can get any skills at all, let alone decent ones.
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Jan 8, 2016 07:10
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Bad Seafood posted:That's what I thought at first, until you realize he's living in a shounen universe where people love to show off their techniques and talk about them during battle. Really, the only tricky bits are getting his opponents to touch the book and leaving them alive afterwards. Maybe he can just toss his book at them and hope that they catch it. Or cut off a hand and then smack the palm of the hand with the book. Doesn't say the hand needs to be attached to the rest of the body!!!!
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Jan 8, 2016 07:16
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Gyges posted:
Well, he did sort of place restrictions on himself, probably without thinking about it too hard, by basically putting all his power into 3 attacks in the form of Rock, Paper, Scissors, and needing to declare them out loud. Basically it fit Gon well till he sacrificed all of it.
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Jan 8, 2016 07:26
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On Chrollo stealing powers. He can also just subdue his enemies. If they get captured like Owl did then stealing would be quite simple. Stealing a power in the middle of a fight is pretty much not going to happen. I kind of find it funny that despite Feitan winning the bet to become acting leader of the Troupe, Phinks is still the one more or less in charge with Chrollo's absence.
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Jan 8, 2016 07:42
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Bad Seafood posted:That's what I thought at first, until you realize he's living in a shounen universe where people love to show off their techniques and talk about them during battle. Really, the only tricky bits are getting his opponents to touch the book and leaving them alive afterwards. Doesn't really apply in Hunter x Hunter though. For example Knuckle only ever tells Gon what his ability does because he's trying to teach him how to properly use Nen, but on everyone else he never says a word and the opponent is left guessing as to what exactly it does. Hisoka's another exception because he likes messing with his opponents and really even if you know what Bungee Gum does, that doesn't help you too much because of how versatile the ability is. Everyone else pretty much keeps it under wraps because as the characters themselves discuss, knowing what your opponent can do gives such an incredible advantage over one another in Nen fights, like when Gon fought Genthuru. It's what I like about Hunter x Hunter fights the most actually, it's a game of deception where you try to make your opponent think you do this specific thing, when really you do something else entirely. I mean Gon pretty much shouts his ability and even it has an element of deception to it because even though you see him charging his fist, you don't know if he's firing something or your just trying to punch you really hard.
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Jan 8, 2016 08:16
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Shakugan posted:At this point Togashi really needs to just give written general plot outlines to the creators of the anime and let them run with it. I'd make him a bunch of money and not be that burdensome an undertaking. All the names I'm using, at least, are from the Viz translation, which is pretty old. I think the subs for the 2011 anime were consistent with that, so that might be part of it, though.
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Jan 8, 2016 08:24
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Roland Jones posted:All the names I'm using, at least, are from the Viz translation, which is pretty old. I think the subs for the 2011 anime were consistent with that, so that might be part of it, though. I think the Lobster Chimera Ant changed between the two. Bloster in VIz, Brovada in Subs. (Which makes sense as what they are saying sounds nothing like Bloster.)
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Jan 8, 2016 08:36
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Speaking of Genthru, I've always found it kind of hilarious that one of the conditions for his time bomb ability is to explain his powers to the target, under the assumption that no one would ever interrupt him when he's giving out useful information.
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Jan 8, 2016 08:42
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Clarste posted:Speaking of Genthru, I've always found it kind of hilarious that one of the conditions for his time bomb ability is to explain his powers to the target, under the assumption that no one would ever interrupt him when he's giving out useful information. It's a pretty interesting one; his power is a challenge for the enemy to overcome, but he can't activate it without telling them exactly how to do so. Which is probably how he gets away with that power. MonsterEnvy posted:I think the Lobster Chimera Ant changed between the two. Bloster in VIz, Brovada in Subs. (Which makes sense as what they are saying sounds nothing like Bloster.) Ah, there was that one change, yeah. I forgot about that, but, yeah. That's pretty minor.
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Jan 8, 2016 09:26
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Clarste posted:Speaking of Genthru, I've always found it kind of hilarious that one of the conditions for his time bomb ability is to explain his powers to the target, under the assumption that no one would ever interrupt him when he's giving out useful information. This is something that makes me really like Knuckle. It's got nothing to do with the conditions of the ability, but rather explaining his ability takes a long time because it's so complicated, and by the time he's through it's already ticked up a number of times. He took a terrible shonen trope and made it a legitimate strategy.
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Jan 8, 2016 09:55
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TriffTshngo posted:This is something that makes me really like Knuckle. It's got nothing to do with the conditions of the ability, but rather explaining his ability takes so long because it's so complicated that by the time he's through it's already ticked up a number of times. It's cool how Knuckles is so good with math.
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Jan 8, 2016 09:56
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Knuckle having a number-based ability is like the opposite of what his character would normally have in this sorta thing, so he is a real cool dude. Also, he's like if Josuke and Okuyasu from Jojo raised a kid together.
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Jan 8, 2016 10:14
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Asuron posted:Doesn't really apply in Hunter x Hunter though. For example Knuckle only ever tells Gon what his ability does because he's trying to teach him how to properly use Nen, but on everyone else he never says a word and the opponent is left guessing as to what exactly it does. Hisoka's another exception because he likes messing with his opponents and really even if you know what Bungee Gum does, that doesn't help you too much because of how versatile the ability is. Everyone else pretty much keeps it under wraps because as the characters themselves discuss, knowing what your opponent can do gives such an incredible advantage over one another in Nen fights, like when Gon fought Genthuru. Knuckle's ability is another one, as Triff pointed out. You're so used to characters explaining their powers that at first you don't question it, only it turns out it's actually part of Knuckle's strategy.
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Jan 8, 2016 10:16
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Muscled yankees who can do taxes are sexy.
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Jan 8, 2016 10:17
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One thing I don't understand about nen is how people form their abilities. Like, can you calibrate your nen ability? For example "I can emit a nen blast, but can only do it every 10 seconds to make it stronger!" "Hm, that wasn't strong enough, let's try 20 seconds." Because how in the world is someone supposed to know exactly what effect the limitations they put in place will have? It seems like a total crapshoot. But at the same time, it seems like you can't do that, because if you could then nen users would simply alter their abilities depending upon the fight. I guess we're supposed to just assume that nen users are suddenly struck with an inspiration to create a certain ability. Except some are struck with an inspiration that doesn't end up working that well, like Kastro or Pokkle. ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:Yeah, but having the Ryodan around helps a lot I guess. Yeah, it's basically super easy for him to steal an ability from anyone who the Ryodan can capture/overpower. If he sees a cool ability, he just has to have his buddies capture the person (or do it himself). It's just pretty much impossible for him to get an ability from someone who is at/near his level like Zeno (or someone who knows how his ability works and has the guts to not give into Feitan's torture). Blaze Dragon posted:So while there's no strict time limit, he can't stay in Emperor Time forever.
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Jan 8, 2016 11:17
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I figure the idea is how committed each nen user is to their limitation. If you kept switching what it was every fight, your ability would never be as strong as it could be, because you always have in the back of your mind that you'll just change your mind anyway.
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Jan 8, 2016 11:40
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It's not always conscious; Gon's limitations on his ability were just him doing what felt right, always saying the words and going through the motions every time he used the ability. They're developed over time, too, so gradual changes to limitations, or at least some of the limitations (I doubt Kurapika would be able to take back his "I die if I use it on anyone but a Spider" restriction to his Chain Jail), can probably happen. It's not instantaneous, but the result of hard work and practice. Tangent, I just realized that Gon almost never used the Emission and Transmutation aspects of his ability. He killed that one ant with the blade, and I think he fired a thing once in a real fight as well as once when he fought Knuckle, but otherwise they were almost entirely unused, and never got close to the amount of action his punch did. They kind of seemed like things he would eventually develop into effective weapons... And then he gave up everything to kill Pitou. Momomo posted:I figure the idea is how committed each nen user is to their limitation. If you kept switching what it was every fight, your ability would never be as strong as it could be, because you always have in the back of your mind that you'll just change your mind anyway. That said, I could imagine someone making that into part of their ability, that they won't do this or that or will do this particular thing in the battle or whatever, and get increased power from it. Give it a betting/gambling aesthetic and/or something like Kite's slot machine clown thing, and that'd actually make for a pretty cool power. Edit: And now I'm imagining more things for this and I think it's really cool. But yeah, generally, trying to change up your restrictions on the fly, at least in terms of loosening them or trying to get past them, will just make you weaker. You might be able to further restrict yourself for more power though; Gon's sacrifice was a sort of extreme, spontaneous form of that, though that's definitely a rare occurrence. Anyway, long story short, no, you can't really calibrate Nen or predict some aspects of it beyond the general probably. Like, this is the system where personal feelings and experiences can make your powers stronger, and where Franklin cut off all his fingertips because he thought making his fingers more gunlike would improve his ability. While in those terms it did nothing, that he was so dedicated to it and his feelings and such did power up his Hatsu. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 12:07 on Jan 8, 2016 |
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Jan 8, 2016 11:43
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Allarion posted:Well, he did sort of place restrictions on himself, probably without thinking about it too hard, by basically putting all his power into 3 attacks in the form of Rock, Paper, Scissors, and needing to declare them out loud. Basically it fit Gon well till he sacrificed all of it. And he only got to that point by talking to Killua and Wing. Without them he'd still have no clue as to what to do.
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Jan 8, 2016 14:50
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Ytlaya posted:One thing I don't understand about nen is how people form their abilities. Like, can you calibrate your nen ability? For example "I can emit a nen blast, but can only do it every 10 seconds to make it stronger!" "Hm, that wasn't strong enough, let's try 20 seconds." Because how in the world is someone supposed to know exactly what effect the limitations they put in place will have? It seems like a total crapshoot. But at the same time, it seems like you can't do that, because if you could then nen users would simply alter their abilities depending upon the fight. It is a total crapshoot. Remember that Kurapika had no idea how strong his abilities would be despite using an incredibly narrow restriction on their use so he tested it out against the physically strongest member of the Troupe first. I do find it neat that Nen isn't even the end all when it comes to shounen fighting though. Many of the most powerful characters in the series don't have combat specialized abilities which makes most encounters go beyond arbitrary "well my shounen power is more powerful/counters yours so I win unless you do some mid-fight power up".
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Jan 8, 2016 17:17
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Eej posted:It is a total crapshoot. Remember that Kurapika had no idea how strong his abilities would be despite using an incredibly narrow restriction on their use so he tested it out against the physically strongest member of the Troupe first. Well all he needed was the jail chain to win as it puts his opponent in Zetsu. If I remember correctly he went after Uvo first because he was unsure if the chains themselves would be strong enough to restrain the Troupe. (I think despite the abilities on them they are just normal chains.) So if the physically strongest member in Zetsu was unable to break out of the chains then none of them would be.
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Jan 8, 2016 17:42
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Eej posted:It is a total crapshoot. Remember that Kurapika had no idea how strong his abilities would be despite using an incredibly narrow restriction on their use so he tested it out against the physically strongest member of the Troupe first. It seems like 60% of people would end up realizing that they hosed up their nen ability and are consequently screwed for life, though (I would say more like ~95%, but enhancers and some transmuter/emitter abilities, like Killua's, are more difficult to screw up). The idea of someone realizing 6 months after creating their Hatsu that it sucks and no amount of training will ever bring them up to par is pretty hilarious. MonsterEnvy posted:Well all he needed was the jail chain to win as it puts his opponent in Zetsu. If I remember correctly he went after Uvo first because he was unsure if the chains themselves would be strong enough to restrain the Troupe. (I think despite the abilities on them they are just normal chains.) So if the physically strongest member in Zetsu was unable to break out of the chains then none of them would be. What do you mean by "normal chains"? They're definitely made of Nen and stronger than normal chains (or else they wouldn't be able to restrain even a Zetsu'd Uvogin).
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Jan 8, 2016 18:00
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It's not like they can't develop another though, it's just that actually mastering your Hatsu takes time, both with it's actual development and for your own state of mind, since your feelings about it very much inform its strength. So, knowing that you could just change it if you don't like it would actually weaken your resolve, thus making your technique weaker. It is like someone else said earlier, Nen is a really great system because it makes the standard shonen "fighting spirit" part of the actual system. Conviction is not really something you can fake to yourself, hence why it is generally a bad idea to just copy someone's technique, as your emotional connection to that technique wouldn't be as strong as the original owners or even a technique you come up with on your own, so it wouldn't be as potent. However, if that emotional connection actual is there, e.g. a family or legacy technique past down over generations, you could totally use that and it would probably be even stronger thanks to it's long tradition and all the history and pathos that comes with that. e X fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Jan 8, 2016 |
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Jan 8, 2016 18:23
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Any nen concept can be developed to become powerful. Even for the expressly non-combat abilities, mastering those comes with increasing their basic nen proficiency. On top of their main ability, every spider we saw fight was also a very strong enhancer.
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Jan 8, 2016 18:39
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Serious Frolicking posted:Any nen concept can be developed to become powerful. Even for the expressly non-combat abilities, mastering those comes with increasing their basic nen proficiency. On top of their main ability, every spider we saw fight was also a very strong enhancer. Yeah, but the series used Kastro as an example that, even if you can become strong with any nen concept, you're still handicapped and probably screwed against anyone who more effectively/efficiently chose their ability. Either way, it's a pretty easy thing to ignore, since it seems that unless you do something super obviously wrong (like Kastro focusing strongly on nen abilities far outside his affinity) your ability will generally end up okay. The fact that it doesn't always make sense for someone to magically know whether their ability will be effective is easy to overlook. I assume it's the sort of thing where, if you're "true to yourself" and don't try to force yourself into some mold you're not suited for (like Kastro), you will end up doing the right thing. Like, a zen or Star Wars Force thing where, on some level, you're drawn towards the right Hatsu.
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Jan 8, 2016 18:54
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You can totally make up new abilities on the fly. That's what Cheetu did, and Gon.
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Jan 8, 2016 19:06
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Roland Jones posted:On Killua, it's also that he was familiar with electricity; not only could he endure it, he knew it to the point that he could change his aura into it. Which adds to the whole "wow that's actually pretty hosed up" thing.  I just want to give Killua a hug.
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Jan 8, 2016 19:11
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MonsterEnvy posted:(I think despite the abilities on them they are just normal chains.)
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Jan 8, 2016 19:29
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Shakugan posted:At this point Togashi really needs to just give written general plot outlines to the creators of the anime and let them run with it. I'd make him a bunch of money and not be that burdensome an undertaking. That would probably turn out horribly given how bad the two movies are (one of which is even based off an abandoned plot point of Togashi's).
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Jan 8, 2016 21:35
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Genocyber posted:That would probably turn out horribly given how bad the two movies are (one of which is even based off an abandoned plot point of Togashi's). Agreed. When left to it's own devices, the 2011 version fell into some really bad shonen troupes and general dumbness. Like for example when Kite is around, there's this filler bit where they're being chased by flying chimera ants and Killua is just chucking out lightning bolts left and right, even though up until this point in the manga they've been trying to keep their abilities under wraps and know it's a bad idea to show it like that. He even does it right in front of the fly chimera ant that's used to scout out things for the king later on, so I was just shaking my head when the character is saying he'll be watching closely to see what Killua's ability is, because he already saw the drat thing. Or other dumb moments where instead of debuting scissors on the centipede immediately as he's jumped on, the show literally stops has them stand there for 5 minutes and has the Centipede imagine the scenario of whatever the ability will be and then he goes back to jumping on Gon anyway.
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Jan 8, 2016 21:47
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Bad Seafood posted:Kurapika uses both real chains and nen-conjured chains. The purpose of the former is to distract from the fact that he's using the latter. I'm pretty sure I remember him specifically mentioning that the chains on his fingers are conjured, but he keeps them visible constantly in order to fool people into thinking that they're real and just being manipulated (and as a result not considering that they could be hidden with that one nen skill I forget the name of, In maybe?). Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Jan 8, 2016 |
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Jan 8, 2016 21:47
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Clarste posted:You can totally make up new abilities on the fly. That's what Cheetu did, and Gon. Meh. Gon was just using the raw baseline of his enhancer power in new ways. He didn't really just pop new special attacks in battle. Even his Janken was developed during training with Wing and Biskey. It was heavily implied (if not outright stated) that Cheetu was just getting new powers unlocked from the nen ability of one of the other ants. He wasn't developing them on his own which is why he was poo poo at using them. (And then died the most ignominious death in the series.)
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Jan 8, 2016 22:50
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