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Zakmonster posted:Yes, I would. I don't think I'm in the habit of supporting things that a truly harmful to society. But you choose what you think "God says". It's not as if there actually is one true god who has directly instructed you on this; the version of god you believe in is something you choose. So you've chosen a god that says gays don't have the same rights as heterosexuals. You could choose otherwise, I have, but you don't want to. So when you say "oh it's not me it's god'" I simply don't believe you because I'm not a moron.
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Jan 8, 2016 04:55
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Ladies and gentlemen, just FYI, I may not be answering questions in the thread for a little while. Writing takes a lot out of me and I need to finish my book. Social media is a huge distraction heh. Anyone who wants to ask me specifically something, please PM me and I will get it.
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Jan 8, 2016 07:42
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TacticalUrbanHomo posted:But you choose what you think "God says". It's not as if there actually is one true god who has directly instructed you on this; the version of god you believe in is something you choose. That's cool.
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Jan 8, 2016 08:05
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I've seen people say that men and women are supposed to be equal in islam. Does this mean "a woman should be able to do the same things as a man at all times," or "Allah loves all men and women equally, even though women are subordinate to men".
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Jan 8, 2016 10:42
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Panniculus Rift posted:I've seen people say that men and women are supposed to be equal in islam. Does this mean "a woman should be able to do the same things as a man at all times," or "Allah loves all men and women equally, even though women are subordinate to men". Its more the latter, women are spiritually equal and will get the same rewards in the afterlife. They're also exempt or not obligated to do things that men do.
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Jan 8, 2016 11:50
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Fizzil posted:Its more the latter, women are spiritually equal and will get the same rewards in the afterlife. They're also exempt or not obligated to do things that men do. Sounds like a lovely form of equality to me, but I guess as long as they get their reward in Jannah they should be happy with living as slaves on earth
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Jan 8, 2016 14:50
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Panniculus Rift posted:Sounds like a lovely form of equality to me, but I guess as long as they get their reward in Jannah they should be happy with living as slaves on earth The slavery and female oppression stuff is Arab, it has very little to do with Islam. See also: multiple Muslim countries with female heads of state. (Westerners might be familiar with the name Benazir Bhutto) I mean, the Prophet's boss was a woman. Fuzz fucked around with this message at 19:50 on Jan 8, 2016 |
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Jan 8, 2016 19:47
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Fuzz posted:The slavery and female oppression stuff is Arab, it has very little to do with Islam. See also: multiple Muslim countries with female heads of state. (Westerners might be familiar with the name Benazir Bhutto) Though it does not seem as if Islam was particularly helpful for opposing that tendency; it is here a perfectly ordinary religion, or, more realistically, a somewhat sub-standard religion.
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Jan 8, 2016 20:13
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Cingulate posted:Let's say human, not Arab. Non-arabs were always perfectly capable of enslaving others and oppressing women. Paniculus Rift was specifically implying that it was a specific feature of Islam with regard to its view of women. It is not. It's specific to the (mostly Arab, also East and Central African) practice of Islam in a specific culture, and is not an attribute of the religion itself. Hence I clarified. You are being a pedant.
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Jan 8, 2016 20:56
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Fuzz posted:Paniculus Rift was specifically implying that it was a specific feature of Islam with regard to its view of women. It is not. It's specific to the (mostly Arab, also East and Central African) practice of Islam in a specific culture, and is not an attribute of the religion itself. Hence I clarified.
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Jan 8, 2016 21:20
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Cingulate posted:I'd love to say Why yes of course I am, but the truth is rather that you were seemingly making a somewhat more subtle argument than I was prepared to read (assuming that your argument was indeed that regardless of if being a chauvinist is a fairly universal human, not particularly Arab trait, the cultural aspects manifesting in sexism that are often, when cultures are blamed, attributed to Islam should instead be attributed to Arabic culture). Which is also true. I mean, just today I overheard (in the Northeast US) someone remark, "would you really want a woman as President?" with regard to Hillary. It sucks, but it's slowly (very slowly) getting better. Regardless, this is a Question/Answer thread about Islam, not a social commentary or soap boxing thread. It's not meant to be a, "LET'S RECRUIT PEOPLE TO ISLAM!" thread or the, "LET'S BASH AN ENTIRE RELIGION AND INSULT THE PEOPLE THAT BELIEVE IT, BECAUSE THAT DEMONSTRATES HOW ENLIGHTENED AND PROGRESSIVE WE ARE," thread (which it turned into for a bit). It's a thread for people to ask whatever questions they have about the religion of people that either follow it or actually know things about it, rather than having to rely on the stereotyped or often inaccurate depictions that are readily available elsewhere. The thread is for cutting through all that bullshit and getting to the point. Grandstanding and saying, "A BLOO BLOO ISLAM ENSLAVES WOMEN!" is disingenuous and an unfair assessment, and falls under the above outlined, "bullshit," which only serves to confuse the matter for those coming to the thread genuinely wanting to find out the religion's stance on women. Fuzz fucked around with this message at 21:42 on Jan 8, 2016 |
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Jan 8, 2016 21:35
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Do all Muslims pray facing Mecca or whatever, or is that a practice unique to certain groups. What if you don't know where Mecca is, what is the sop given that.
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Jan 8, 2016 22:47
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Fuzz posted:Grandstanding and saying, "A BLOO BLOO ISLAM ENSLAVES WOMEN!" is disingenuous and an unfair assessment, and falls under the above outlined, "bullshit," which only serves to confuse the matter for those coming to the thread genuinely wanting to find out the religion's stance on women. A lot of this is in response to the assertion that Amun Khonsu made, claiming Islam is a social justice movement. Social justice skews toward egalitarianism. A religion which explicitly limits the rights of certain groups of people cannot possibly be considered a social justice movement unless "social justice" means "whatever my religion arbitrarily says is appropriate". nm about that other stuff Lassitude fucked around with this message at 23:06 on Jan 8, 2016 |
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Jan 8, 2016 22:53
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SHISHKABOB posted:Do all Muslims pray facing Mecca or whatever, or is that a practice unique to certain groups. What if you don't know where Mecca is, what is the sop given that. Facing Mecca is required, but if you don't know you can pray in any direction, while traveling on a boat or a plane its recommended to pray facing the bow/cockpit.
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Jan 9, 2016 00:11
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Is there a preference for saying prayers aloud or not?
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Jan 9, 2016 00:14
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Lassitude posted:A lot of this is in response to the assertion that Amun Khonsu made, claiming Islam is a social justice movement. Social justice skews toward egalitarianism. A religion which explicitly limits the rights of certain groups of people cannot possibly be considered a social justice movement unless "social justice" means "whatever my religion arbitrarily says is appropriate". This is my thing. Tell me that Islam was a social justice movement at the time of its inception? Okay. Yes. I can see that. Tell me that Islam treats women no worse than Christianity? Okay. Yes. I can see that too. I could even go along with "slightly better than Christianity", for that matter. That Islam is, here and now, a social justice movement? It is a much harder claim to make, and I've seen no evidence of it.
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Jan 9, 2016 00:14
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IXIX posted:Is there a preference for saying prayers aloud or not? Only during group prayers, its preferred to be aloud at the latter two prayers at night, and on a jum'a (the weekly friday prayer) otherwise its best to pray silently if alone.
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Jan 9, 2016 00:21
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Khizan posted:This is my thing. Not gonna mention what it's ended up as. This is interpreting social justice as primarily concerned with the material well being and the moral worth of the disenfranchised, not "who's best for non-cis people".
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Jan 9, 2016 00:50
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Fizzil posted:Only during group prayers, its preferred to be aloud at the latter two prayers at night, and on a jum'a (the weekly friday prayer) otherwise its best to pray silently if alone. The custom where I'm from, when praying alone, is to voice them just under your breath, so you can hear the prayers.
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Jan 9, 2016 04:25
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Fizzil posted:Facing Mecca is required, but if you don't know you can pray in any direction, while traveling on a boat or a plane its recommended to pray facing the bow/cockpit. Do you need to take great circle mapping into account? For example if you are in Anchorage Alaska you might think you have to face South-East but the shortest distance is actually to face almost directly North.
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Jan 9, 2016 14:20
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NihilismNow posted:Do you need to take great circle mapping into account? For example if you are in Anchorage Alaska you might think you have to face South-East but the shortest distance is actually to face almost directly North.
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Jan 9, 2016 15:59
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NihilismNow posted:Do you need to take great circle mapping into account? For example if you are in Anchorage Alaska you might think you have to face South-East but the shortest distance is actually to face almost directly North. No, not the shortest just the direction, distance doesn't matter.
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Jan 9, 2016 18:09
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There is no developed Islamic country yet, right? So how do you imagine such a country would look like? Would it be just as liberal and unreligious as a Christian country? I mean, all Muslims in this thread are far more religiously conservative than the average Christian in the west. Would a modern Islamic country be full of people like you or more of liberal types, like in the west?
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Jan 9, 2016 23:49
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waitwhatno posted:Would it be just as liberal and unreligious as a Christian country? Check out Albania, which is literally European, if you're not just trolling.
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Jan 10, 2016 00:12
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P-Mack posted:Check out Albania, which is literally European, if you're not just trolling. Albania is Muslim-majority, but it's not an Islamic country. That said, I'm not sure what the distinction would be, in practice. The US is secular by constitution, but it's quite religious relative to other nations which elevate Christianity in their foundational documents. Either way, I think if you replaced Christianity with Islam in the US, you'd see very little change.
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Jan 10, 2016 00:33
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waitwhatno posted:I mean, all Muslims in this thread are far more religiously conservative than the average Christian in the west. Would a modern Islamic country be full of people like you or more of liberal types, like in the west?  I'm not sure where you're getting that from, at all. Like, multiple Muslims in this thread (like me) have remarked about how we're pretty liberal and chill, meanwhile according to surveys (http://www.pewforum.org/religious-landscape-study/) The average Christian (all denominations inclusive) cares more about religious matters. All is a pretty extreme word.
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Jan 10, 2016 00:43
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Tendai posted:Generally speaking, I think it's more or less up to the person. As long as you're facing the right way in some direction or another, you're good, but I think most of the specific fancy poo poo that they have to point the direction for you (I always just sort of guess based on the sun) will probably choose the shortest way? I'm not sure. When the requirement to face Mecca was put in, was it known that the world was round, and not flat with a firmament yet? I feel like that's pretty important.
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Jan 10, 2016 00:48
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P-Mack posted:Check out Albania, which is literally European, if you're not just trolling. Albania is an impoverished shithole and very far away from being a developed country. Not sure what you are getting at. Fuzz posted:
Developed nations are getting increasingly less religious and more and more people turn to atheism and agnosticism. I guess I'm just wondering what conservative Muslims, who want Islam to grow and become stronger, think about this fate? Church membership in Europe is in free fall and the same thing will happen to Islam some day, but can a truly conservative Muslim wish for that?
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Jan 10, 2016 01:16
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waitwhatno posted:Albania is an impoverished shithole and very far away from being a developed country. Not sure what you are getting at. wikipedia posted:Albania is a parliamentary republic. The country's capital, Tirana, represents its financial and industrial heartland, with a metropolitan population of almost 800,000 people out of around 2.9 million Albanians.[1][9] Free-market reforms have opened the country to foreign investment, especially in the development of energy and transportation infrastructure.[10][11][12] Albania has a high HDI and provides a universal health care system and free primary and secondary education.[5] Albania is an upper-middle income economy with the service sector dominating the country's economy, followed by the industrial sector and agriculture.[13] Its murder rate is actually the same as for the US. Brunei has an HDI of .85, more than Poland and almost the same as Italy.
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Jan 10, 2016 01:25
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waitwhatno posted:Albania is an impoverished shithole and very far away from being a developed country. Not sure what you are getting at. Mostly that the role of religion there isn't all that different from its Christian neighbors, and that there's nothing inherent to Islam that should make us assume otherwise. Similarly, Christians in the least developed parts of Africa probably have more in common with their Muslim neighbors than they do with the Church of Sweden. Religion never exists in a vacuum isolated from geography and culture. This theoretical fully developed first world Muslim nation will look one way if it were in Europe, another if it were in East Asia, another in the Middle East, just like actual Muslim countries do right now.
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Jan 10, 2016 01:36
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Jastiger posted:When the requirement to face Mecca was put in, was it known that the world was round, and not flat with a firmament yet? I feel like that's pretty important.
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Jan 10, 2016 02:32
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Jastiger posted:When the requirement to face Mecca was put in, was it known that the world was round, and not flat with a firmament yet? I feel like that's pretty important.
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Jan 10, 2016 02:43
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Flagrant Abuse posted:The Greeks calculated the roundness of the world, and even did a pretty good job of estimating its size, before even the birth of Jesus. So I'm going to go with yes.
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Jan 10, 2016 02:54
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Cingulate posted:Some Greeks knew, and eventually many educated people everywhere did, but I see little reason to assume most people did. For example, illiterate, uneducated people living far away from major centers of civilization and the sea probably didn't know any such things. I'd bet good money Jesus assumed a flat earth, and I wouldn't be surprised if Muhammad assumed it to be flat, too. There's a lot of evidence to indicate that at least shortly after Muhammad's death the Caliphate knew the world was round and, in fact, that the Earth was probably not the center of our universe/solar system. They made huge progress in Astronomy and navigation. We get it, all religious figures were poo poo eating cultists in your mind. You don't have to post spurious nonsense with no basis in fact to drive it home. Especially considering your (or maybe it was one of the other angry atheists, I haven't been paying close attention) previous arguments about scientific thought and evidence based logic. Fuzz fucked around with this message at 03:20 on Jan 10, 2016 |
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Jan 10, 2016 03:18
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Fuzz posted:There's a lot of evidence to indicate that at least shortly after Muhammad's death the Caliphate knew the world was round and, in fact, that the Earth was probably not the center of our universe/solar system. They made huge progress in Astronomy and navigation. Fuzz posted:We get it, all religious figures were poo poo eating cultists in your mind Fuzz posted:I haven't been paying close attention
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Jan 10, 2016 03:27
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Cingulate posted:Yes; rich educated people living in large cities, often close to the ocean and involved in maritime trade, most likely knew a good bit of astronomy. Islamic scientists (such as astronomers) most likely knew everything the Greeks knew and more. The Jesus portrayed in the Gospels was most definitely not illiterate. Luke states that he read directly from the scroll of Isaiah at the synagogue in Nazareth. He often taught in synagogues, and teaching meant reading scripture aloud and giving a sermon or lesson around it. I cannot vouch for Mohammad, but the Arabs were renowned for their scholarship before and after Islam.
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Jan 10, 2016 03:48
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I'd actually be interested in learning more about what caused Islam to go from a religion which, for a time, represented the peak of scholarship in the world, to what it is now.
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Jan 10, 2016 04:10
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Deteriorata posted:I cannot vouch for Mohammad, but the Arabs were renowned for their scholarship before and after Islam. Muhammad was illiterate until the day he died, according to most historians. That said, the Quran is purportedly the word of God, and Muhammad relayed it via recitation. Whether or not he knew the world was round, from the Muslim perspective, has very little bearing on the meaning of the book, as it's not his words in the eyes of a Muslim.
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Jan 10, 2016 04:56
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Deteriorata posted:The Jesus portrayed in the Gospels was most definitely not illiterate. Luke states that he read directly from the scroll of Isaiah at the synagogue in Nazareth. He often taught in synagogues, and teaching meant reading scripture aloud and giving a sermon or lesson around it. I wouldn't take the bible as a reliable source here - for example, it's pretty questionable why a carpenter, and the son of a carpenter, would have learnt how to read - but that's certainly not for discussion here ... Deteriorata posted:I cannot vouch for Mohammad, but the Arabs were renowned for their scholarship before and after Islam.
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Jan 10, 2016 04:59
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Cingulate posted:Okay I didn't know that. Exactly about Jesus. It sounds pretty made up to me. Why would Jesus be literate? Also it's not some angry atheist thing about the flat earth. The literal translation of the old testament describes the sky aa a dome with the stars either impressed on or cut out of it with the sun filtering through for light. So yeah why would a flat earth culture know about pointing Mecca out on a global scale?
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Jan 10, 2016 08:05
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