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Large chunks of Wales don't (didn't? Oh, who am I kidding. Like we'd spend money on basic heating infrastructure) have mains gas, and had big tanks of Calor Gas instead.
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Jan 7, 2016 23:54
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Over in Belgium not all houses are hooked up for gas either, and a decent amount of people still use heating oil, along with electric boilers for hot water. Apparently it's slightly cheaper on a yearly basis, but you do have the hassle of keeping track of your fuel level and you can only order in reasonably large quantities as opposed to just a monthly utilities bill. Maintenance is also a bit more complicated than your average gas boiler. It's starting to vanish though, but still very common in older houses, mainly due to the lack of gas lines when they were built and the utilities companies charging a decent fee for a connection, along with the hassle and cost of removing an existing oil installation, since most oil tanks tend to be installed in the basement with a pipe to the street for filling.
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Jan 8, 2016 00:59
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Laugh all you want but I bet you get really good at hitting the tennis ball.
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Jan 8, 2016 12:56
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Pham Nuwen posted:Don't you guys have a lot of oil? Natural gas is basically a byproduct of drilling for oil IIRC We do, but it's all offshore - and on the wrong side of the country for where most of us live. I guess you could run a gas pipeline over the mountains or around the coast, and digging up the streets to lay pipes is also entirely possible. Still, you would be betting an awful lot of money on a dubious business proposition - especially since nobody here is used to gas as an alternative in the house. I guess you could do LPG tankers to Oslo and distribute from storage tanks, but again I seriously doubt you'd recoup the investment anytime soon. Computer viking has a new favorite as of 16:13 on Jan 8, 2016 |
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Jan 8, 2016 16:10
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Natural gas is one of those things you don't realize how awesome it is until you have used it. Gas heat, hot water. clothes driers, and cooktops are all as good as or better than their electric/oil equivalent and are much, much cheaper to operate. Here gas is $3.50/MBTU. The same amount of energy would be $15.50 worth of heating oil or $23.40 worth of electricity. As for why it isn't used much in some areas - it was a lot easier to switch houses over from wood/coal to oil one by one or electricity (which was being run anyway) than run gas lines. And natural gas wasn't a thing until the 50-60s int he US and the 80s in Europe so in the past those gas lines were filled with coal gas which firmly belongs in this thread. All of people's fears about gas originate from coal gas (or the close equivalent wood gas) and which was odorless and 10% or more carbon monoxide. Combined with now unused dumb pilot lights in ovens or heaters it was entirely too easy for leak or to go undetected until the concentration in the air got high enough to be deadly or explosive. Modern systems either use piezoelectric ignition on demand or if they do have pilot lights they have flame sensors which will cut gas supply if the pilot goes out. Newer cooktops have automatic reignition which uses the electrical conductivity of the flame passing by the piezoelectric ignitor to detect the flame and relight it if it goes out.
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Jan 8, 2016 17:05
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Shifty Pony posted:Natural gas is one of those things you don't realize how awesome it is until you have used it. Hell, a few years back we had a hell of an ice storm where I live. Power was out for days and days. We (my housemates and I) had a LOT of electronics, so I didn't feel comfortable leaving the house and camping out at a friend's like the housemates did. I couldn't use any of the electronics and was living by candlelight, but at least I could cook and take a hot shower...
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Jan 8, 2016 17:45
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This chat reminds of a technology I've never been exposed to myself but have read about : AGA stoves: It's one of those things that's horribly divisive, but having never been around one I can't offer a personal opinion. However, when you read this line: quote:This would indicate that the smallest traditional two-oven gas AGA providing simple cooking functions (i.e. no water heating or central heating) consumes almost as much gas in a week as a standard gas oven/hob does in nine months. I mean, if you were actively trying to make something horribly inefficient, you'd probably have a tough time meeting the standard set by this thing.
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Jan 8, 2016 19:24
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quote:works on the principle that a heavy frame made from cast iron components can absorb heat from a relatively low-intensity but continuously-burning source, and the accumulated heat can then be used when needed for cooking I don’t get it. What’s so hard about having a large burner?
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Jan 8, 2016 19:29
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Am I reading it right in that it's turned on 24/7? I could see that being really good for the time and place it was developed, since if you were living in Sweden in the 1920s you'd probably have a coal burning furnace running all the time anyway. But using one in 2016? gently caress. e: quote:It began when the gas bill landed on the mat. “This is outrageous,” my husband James yelled. “There’s no way we can afford this.” The bill in question covered seven weeks between January and February this year. It came to £682.30. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/7488832/My-aga-love-affair-is-cooling.html 
Wanamingo has a new favorite as of 19:38 on Jan 8, 2016 |
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Jan 8, 2016 19:32
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feedmegin posted:I seriously doubt Deus Ex was written with multithreading support, so I'm not sure why that helped! It's a timing issue iirc. The game sees multiple cores running at different frequencies and it throws the game logic out of sync.
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Jan 8, 2016 20:26
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Shifty Pony posted:Gas heat, hot water. clothes driers, and cooktops are all as good as or better than their electric/oil equivalent and are much, much cheaper to operate. Here gas is $3.50/MBTU. The same amount of energy would be $15.50 worth of heating oil or $23.40 worth of electricity. Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Finland are prolific users of Combined Heat and Power. Most of us simply get piping hot water delivered to a heat exchanger instead of having a burner of some kind in a closet. Hence there isn't much of a consumer market for gas.
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Jan 8, 2016 20:46
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Wanamingo posted:Am I reading it right in that it's turned on 24/7? I could see that being really good for the time and place it was developed, since if you were living in Sweden in the 1920s you'd probably have a coal burning furnace running all the time anyway. But using one in 2016? gently caress. quote:... my obsessive recycling of the insides of loo rolls...
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Jan 8, 2016 20:55
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Trabant posted:This chat reminds of a technology I've never been exposed to myself but have read about : AGA stoves: I'd never heard of these things. It seems like the idea is that it runs all the time no matter what and you can occasionally heat other stuff up with it? Seems bonkers to me.
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Jan 8, 2016 20:59
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Jasper Tin Neck posted:Norway, Denmark, Sweden and Finland are prolific users of Combined Heat and Power. Most of us simply get piping hot water delivered to a heat exchanger instead of having a burner of some kind in a closet. Hence there isn't much of a consumer market for gas. Gas is still piped to most of Copenhagen, but these days it's only used for gas ranges. So while my heating is supplied centrally, I use gas to cook. The oven is electric, though. And I wouldn't have it any other way, gas is so much better than electric hotplates. The only alternative that comes close is induction, but that has its own drawbacks.
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Jan 8, 2016 21:07
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flosofl posted:Wait.. what? I hope this isn't what it sounds like, Typhoid Mary. I assume she means doing poo poo like this. 
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Jan 8, 2016 21:07
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KozmoNaut posted:Gas is still piped to most of Copenhagen, but these days it's only used for gas ranges. So while my heating is supplied centrally, I use gas to cook. The oven is electric, though. The main drawback of induction beyond being powered by magic and the devil is that you have to buy all new cookware. Unless all your pans are cast iron, in which case you're fine.
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Jan 8, 2016 21:11
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If I ever had to switch to induction, I would insist on a 3-4+KW range like they use in restaurant kitchens. Holy poo poo those things are crazy.
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Jan 8, 2016 21:16
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I'm not sure that's wise. "just a sec hun I'll just steam some milk *milk flash boils and cooks KozmoNaut face*".
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Jan 8, 2016 21:19
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SwissCM posted:It's a timing issue iirc. The game sees multiple cores running at different frequencies and it throws the game logic out of sync. Yeah the same thing happens to a bunch of old games from before multi-core, like Everquest. The game's timing gets all kind of hosed up in inconsistent ways. Luckily there's a 3rd party client somebody wrote that fixes it. Its funny because the game mostly works but then you try to climb a ladder or swim or something and everything behaves really odd.
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Jan 8, 2016 21:36
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Boiled Water posted:The main drawback of induction beyond being powered by magic and the devil is that you have to buy all new cookware. Unless all your pans are cast iron... Or carbon steel, or 400 stainless, or have an internal or external layer of one of those.
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Jan 8, 2016 21:50
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Phanatic posted:Or carbon steel, or 400 stainless, or have an internal or external layer of one of those. There are even induction plates that kind of work with aluminium, but those probably cost more than just buying the few pans and pots a household needs.
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Jan 8, 2016 21:59
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Here's a technology that belongs in this thread: Automatic seatbelts. For those who don't know or weren't in the US in the late 80's/early 90's, the NHSTA mandated that all cars have some kind of "Passive Restraint" system, such as airbags. But since airbags at the time were too expensive to include in every car, the wording of the law allowed car manufacturers to use an alternative system. In this case, on the front seats was a motorized seat belt that went across the shoulders. Though you till had to fasten the lap belt yourself. My first car had them, and my current car has them. Car manufacturers stopped including them when they realized that automatic seat belts were godawful and nobody wanted them.
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Jan 8, 2016 22:22
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Instant Sunrise posted:Here's a technology that belongs in this thread: Automatic seatbelts. My car from like 2 years ago was one of those old 80s/90s Hondas with the box design and the automatic seatbelts. They're so weird when you're riding in somebody else's car and you're not used to them, same with other people riding in your car if you have them. Its always like "oh", but not in like an impressive way, just kinda... there. Problem is the stupid motor on the belt died and then my seatbelt wouldn't loving work anymore! So much for that  I'd rather have non-motorized seatbelts that "just work" thanks. (In theory there was some backup factory safety feature where you could unpin the seatbelt from the track and manually move it, but I couldn't figure out how for the life of me and ended up junking the car. It had a poo poo ton of other issues too though, windows that wouldn't move anymore, leaking oil, cracked radiator, clutch didn't have much life left, poo poo. But that car went through hell for me.)The fact that you still had to fasten the lower belt and it only did the upper belt for you automatically made the whole thing pointless. Maybe if you could do both automatically that'd be kinda nice? But even then seatbelts don't take but half a second to put on. Just one of those false "futuristic" features of cars. I remember in the early 90s my dad had a car with a voice unit, that would actually talk to you. "Driver door ajar...driver door ajar..." It was this weird robotic female voice. Very 80s. Also the doors had keypads on them where you could like enter a password to unlock them if you didn't have the key?
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Jan 8, 2016 22:43
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Instant Sunrise posted:Here's a technology that belongs in this thread: Automatic seatbelts. Oh god I had blocked out the memory of those pieces of poo poo. I had a Mazda that didn't work for poo poo, and god help you if you forgot about it trying to get out of the car in a hurry as it tried to decapitate you (weakly but still "Oh goddamit" inducing). Naturally it soon broke and the result was having to clip and unclip the shoulder belt from it for it to function.
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Jan 8, 2016 22:46
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It's a bit counter to the thread, but what happened to municipal heating? I recently bought a house in a new development that gets hot water and heating from a plant and we pay 0.05p KWh vs 4p for gas and 13p for electricity. Why did it stop being a thing? And why don't I have the heating on?
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Jan 9, 2016 00:33
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Zaphod42 posted:My car from like 2 years ago was one of those old 80s/90s Hondas with the box design and the automatic seatbelts. They're so weird when you're riding in somebody else's car and you're not used to them, same with other people riding in your car if you have them. Its always like "oh", but not in like an impressive way, just kinda... there. My first two cars when I was a teenager had these sons of a bitches (a 87 Camry, then a 94 Subaru). They irritated the poo poo out of me and any passenger, whoever it was. I got pulled over once for "looking like I wasn't wearing my seatbelt" because I wore a black shirt, I think. I told the officer I wish I could take this loving seatbelt off sir, but it's automatic and I can't.
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Jan 9, 2016 00:43
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Zaphod42 posted:I remember in the early 90s my dad had a car with a voice unit, that would actually talk to you. "Driver door ajar...driver door ajar..." It was this weird robotic female voice. Very 80s. I recall seeing a video a while back showing how some of them worked off of a sort of clockwork music box instead of a voice synthesizer, but I can't seem to find it right now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onsJ9i2p3yE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VY8J6kCv2tE
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Jan 9, 2016 00:44
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This is the best thing, I want a pleasant japanese robot to talk to me when I leave my lights on 
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Jan 9, 2016 01:01
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Instant Sunrise posted:Here's a technology that belongs in this thread: Automatic seatbelts. You might want to add those seatbelts mounted to the door. The idea was that you left the belt buckled and whenever you wanted to get in or out of the car, you could just open the door and slide underneath the belt. I think all of the early (pre-96) W-body GM cars had that setup.
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Jan 9, 2016 01:18
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Samizdata posted:Hell, a few years back we had a hell of an ice storm where I live. Power was out for days and days. We (my housemates and I) had a LOT of electronics, so I didn't feel comfortable leaving the house and camping out at a friend's like the housemates did. I couldn't use any of the electronics and was living by candlelight, but at least I could cook and take a hot shower... Both my and my gran's houses had gas furnaces, but the controls and fans are electric, so that wouldn't help when the power was out. Grandparents also had a gas fireplace, fake logs and all. That was kinda weird in retrospect, having had a couple of places with actual fireplaces since I moved out on my own. I suppose it made sense at the time, rather than having a blank wall and one of those gas heaters in the corner of the living room in those pre-TV days. The house my parents built for themselves has all electric appliances, but they ran a gas pipe to the living room in case they did want to later install a fake fireplace. xlevus posted:It's a bit counter to the thread, but what happened to municipal heating? Tubesock Holocaust posted:You might want to add those seatbelts mounted to the door. The idea was that you left the belt buckled and whenever you wanted to get in or out of the car, you could just open the door and slide underneath the belt. I think all of the early (pre-96) W-body GM cars had that setup. Chillbro Baggins has a new favorite as of 02:43 on Jan 9, 2016 |
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Jan 9, 2016 01:53
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Bad Angus! Bad!
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C.M. Kruger posted:I recall seeing a video a while back showing how some of them worked off of a sort of clockwork music box instead of a voice synthesizer, but I can't seem to find it right now. Ah yeah now that I think about it I think my dad's car was a Mitsubishi at the time. Could be wrong but I think so. That Japanese woman's voice is adorable Reminds me of the subway in Tokyo.The male voice on top sounds like some serious WarGames voice, "shall we play a game"
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Jan 9, 2016 01:54
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C.M. Kruger posted:I recall seeing a video a while back showing how some of them worked off of a sort of clockwork music box instead of a voice synthesizer, but I can't seem to find it right now. I think this may have been posted in this thread before https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6hJBko3-oV4
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Jan 9, 2016 07:23
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If you can stick a fridge magnet to your cookware, induction tops will work with your current stuff.
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Jan 9, 2016 08:22
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If it conducts electricity, induction cooktops will work with it.
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Jan 9, 2016 08:59
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Humphreys posted:If you can stick a fridge magnet to your cookware, induction tops will work with your current stuff. ArcMage posted:If it conducts electricity, induction cooktops will work with it. And this is why we talk about a nifty little thing called electromagnetism.
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Jan 9, 2016 09:47
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-Z8X2se_Fg The Kaypro Robie: evidently, it didn't sell very well due to its floppy drives being monstrous, disk-destroying horrorshows, but drat if it doesn't look cool. So cool, in fact, that despite its poor sales, it still ended up making a few cameo appearances in quintessential '80s shows such as Miami Vice and Moonlighting. 
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Jan 9, 2016 10:02
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Uncle Enzo posted:I'd never heard of these things. It seems like the idea is that it runs all the time no matter what and you can occasionally heat other stuff up with it? Seems bonkers to me. The house I spent most of my childhood in had an AGA exactly like the one in the picture (cream colour, four ovens, two hotplates and a warming plate). It was oil-fired, which must be the only way to make them remotely financially practical to run given what gas/electricity costs (I think you can still get solid-fuel ones which you have to top up every day). The whole idea is that you have a very small, central heating unit which slowly heats up the cast iron structure, which is designed to channel/conduct the heat in varying amounts to different parts. It takes about 48 hours for everything to reach the proper temperature if you fire it up from cold (and a similar amount of time to cool down if you switch it off) and then it's on all the time. The environmental footprint must be horrendous and I'm sure they must cost much more than just having a normal oven. Like that Telegraph article implied, they're very much a British rural upper-middle-class status symbol but these days they must surely be considered obsolete. But they are fantastically convenient and I haven't come across a better, easier device for cooking. You have three ovens all at different temperatures, plus a warming oven, so you can do multiple stages of cooking at once, plus two hotplates - one for boiling, one for simmering. There's no waiting for the thing to warm up (it's just 'there') and all the ovens have a very even, steady heat. You don't really have to clean it, either, as any spills or spatters just get burnt up and you sweep out the ovens/plates every now and then. The one we had was also hooked up to the hot water but the tank was too big for it to raise the temperature much above luke-warm by itself, but it must have helped reduce the load on the oil-fired boiler at bit (probably not by anything like enough to offset the AGA's running costs, though). Same went for the central heating - there were no radiators in the kitchen/dining room (one big room) and even with the heating off the AGA kept the ground floor of the house comfortable unless it was really cold weather. If it was a really hot summer the AGA would go off for a couple of months and we'd use an electric hob and a microwave. Basically, I'm they're great if you're Swedish (and/or blind - the guy who invented it was blinded in an industrial accident and wanted a cooker that was easy to use) or if you live in the British countryside where the weather can be poo poo at any time of the year and you can afford the running costs. And you don't give a gently caress about the carbon footprint or fuel consumption.
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Jan 9, 2016 10:49
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I really love looking up old versions of software I see all the time. Check out Ableton :  Steam:  Winamp !  [sandstorm begins playing mentally] Firefox:  I looked up one for VLC, but it's not really changed at all.
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Jan 9, 2016 10:51
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well why not posted:Winamp ! Whoever took that screenshot needs to learn how to use an equalizer  E: Oh, it isn't even turned on. Outrage over, I guess. KozmoNaut has a new favorite as of 11:05 on Jan 9, 2016 |
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Jan 9, 2016 11:02
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BalloonFish posted:The house I spent most of my childhood in had an AGA exactly like the one in the picture (cream colour, four ovens, two hotplates and a warming plate). It was oil-fired, which must be the only way to make them remotely financially practical to run given what gas/electricity costs (I think you can still get solid-fuel ones which you have to top up every day). Oil is no cheaper per kWh than natural gas right now when the price is at its lowest in 6 years. Until a year or so ago even kerosene wasn't cheaper. It's mostly the increase in fuel duties over the last 20 years that has made AGAs truly uneconomical, though. The introduction of electricity is what turned them into a nostalgic status symbol. In a properly built non-electric home your AGA would be the only source of heating and hot water that you needed, and you'd use a bit of the fuel for it in lamps.
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