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Aesop Poprock posted:What are the odds every single one of those dudes have shared a "terrorist muslims hiding behind their women and children" comic at some point Muslims aren't allowed to do it because they're the bad guys.
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Jan 9, 2016 16:54
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So the wheels of justice are slow, and not necessarily racist. Is that your point PTD? Why can't we speed them up here? Why is it correct to show no attempt at actually enforcing the law against these groups? Should the government continue to take 20 months or more to bring charges against these people if they start popping up in more and more federal buildings on the order of every week? These guys now know they'll be given at least a week to get set up and dig in. That "community meeting" stream last night was at least a quarter about exporting the Malheur occupation as a model to other rural communities. They are literally making plans to do this on other federal lands in order to steal them. So should the response to these groups continue to move so slow as to allow this movement to create their own established enclaves? Cause that is what they are planning right now.
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Jan 9, 2016 17:03
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Crain posted:So the wheels of justice are slow, and not necessarily racist. Is that your point PTD? I think "established enclaves" is a rather big leap from a group of a dozen or so idiot clowns who took over an empty bird sanctuary for a week so far and have accomplished jack poo poo.
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Jan 9, 2016 17:19
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It's also a pretty hilarious next step from a demo that largely believes there are dozens of guarded terrorist training camps in rural areas of the United States.
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Jan 9, 2016 17:24
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Tin Gang posted:I think "established enclaves" is a rather big leap from a group of a dozen or so idiot clowns who took over an empty bird sanctuary for a week so far and have accomplished jack poo poo. The government hasn't touched the Bundy ranch since the 2014 event. They haven't shown that Malhuer will be handled any differently. You can do a lot in 20 months. And they're planning on doing this at other federal lands. Giving these guys 20months+ to do what they want and expand will result in a much more dug in problem with much greater capabilities than sitting under a tarp. Again: these are the plans they were making last night. They're going to try and do this.
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Jan 9, 2016 17:27
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It is a hyperbolic example, but my greater point is that the government should at least try to deal with one incident before the next one starts. If they're going to take 20+ months to deal with each event it's quickly going to spiral out of control.
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Jan 9, 2016 17:31
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Crain posted:The government hasn't touched the Bundy ranch since the 2014 event. They haven't shown that Malhuer will be handled any differently. Their plans are an idiot fantasy. This is the Zybourne Clock of armed insurrections. Tin Gang fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Jan 9, 2016 |
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Jan 9, 2016 17:31
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Tin Gang posted:Their plans are an idiot fantasy. This is the Zybourne Clock of armed resurrections. And idiot fantasy with real guns.
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Jan 9, 2016 17:33
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Tin Gang posted:Their plans are an idiot fantasy. This is the Zybourne Clock of armed resurrections. Most nativist insurrections are an idiot fantasy, when you think about it
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Jan 9, 2016 17:36
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Your Dunkle Sans posted:Uh... So are the Feds/local authorities doing anything then? I'm not getting my panties in a knot over rushing in and KILL KILL KILL like some of the goons in this thread, but it's pretty weird that there hasn't been a reaction of any size besides "please go home, we don't want you here." the sheriff has said "steps were underway to break the occupation and that the measures authorities were taking would "not be visible to the public"." so it's not like they're doing nothing, they're just not doing anything that's going to give these guys the media attention they crave boner confessor fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Jan 9, 2016 |
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Jan 9, 2016 18:09
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Popular Thug Drink posted:the sheriff has said "steps were underway to break the occupation and that the measures authorities were taking would "not be visible to the public"." so it's not like they're doing nothing, they're just not doing anything that's going to give these guys the media attention they crave Nor anything that would, you know, let these guys know what they're doing.
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Jan 9, 2016 18:13
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Popular Thug Drink posted:the sheriff has said "steps were underway to break the occupation and that the measures authorities were taking would "not be visible to the public"." so it's not like they're doing nothing, they're just not doing anything that's going to give these guys the media attention they crave And doing a bang-up job, I have to say
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Jan 9, 2016 18:14
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well yeah, so far the only people actually calling for a waco-style siege are the left leaners who allegedly don't agree with this group's plans yet somehow, strangely, have the same goals ???
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Jan 9, 2016 18:21
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Ninkobei posted:"We're not leaving this place without a fight. If you think we're going down without taking some of you feds out with us, well think again." is what I picture these guys thinking. You are vastly overestimating these unprepared, fat idiots
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Jan 9, 2016 18:31
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Popular Thug Drink posted:well yeah, so far the only people actually calling for a waco-style siege are the left leaners who allegedly don't agree with this group's plans yet somehow, strangely, have the same goals ??? lol, So apparently every siege is now 'Waco-style'? You realize law enforcement of every stripe conducts sieges all the time, right? Including the Feds? Because waiting them out but preventing them from just doing whatever is the best way to end this without casualties? You've got some of the most ridiculously bad faith arguments I've seen in a long time, and that's an accomplishment, I'll give you that.
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Jan 9, 2016 18:34
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I would of course prefer that the team who captures the militants not be as incompetent as the ATF. FBI's HRT could probably handle it pretty well, or heck even assembling a properly equipped team from all those agents hanging out in motels
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Jan 9, 2016 18:36
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I'm sure if you just leave them alone most of then will go home eventually but what if some decide to stay there permanently? They can go in to town and get supplies whenever they want and I'm guessing they can get enough wingnut welfare to continue doing so, what do you do in that case?
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Jan 9, 2016 18:36
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Popular Thug Drink posted:well yeah, so far the only people actually calling for a waco-style siege are the left leaners who allegedly don't agree with this group's plans yet somehow, strangely, have the same goals ??? Your PoV was decent at first and I still agree with you to a point but you're entering into the realms of self-parody at this point
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Jan 9, 2016 18:37
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Crain posted:It is a hyperbolic example, but my greater point is that the government should at least try to deal with one incident before the next one starts. If they're going to take 20+ months to deal with each event it's quickly going to spiral out of control.  There actually are no 20 month plans to deal with the last one, because they aren't planning on doing anything about it.
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Jan 9, 2016 18:39
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SedanChair posted:And doing a bang-up job, I have to say The journalists who are still there have said that the media presence is dwindling. If anybody feels like watching Ammon try to give a 15 minute speech, here it is. I don't know if he gets through a single sentence without stumbling over his words.
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Jan 9, 2016 18:43
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I'm from Oklahoma City and I say kill 'em all. But actually, you can't just assume this problem is going to go away if you ignore it long enough. If there's still no action being taken about the 2014 stand off, then I'm skeptical of plans to just pick them up later once they've dispersed.
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Jan 9, 2016 18:44
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baw posted:fortunately the US isn't a signatory of the Ottawa Treaty! (mostly because of the korean DMZ) Of course this means every citizen owns land mines because they aren't heavily regulated in the slightest. Like watching people go nuts over grenade launching adapters on rifles.
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Jan 9, 2016 18:55
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"What are we to do? Are we to just go home, and allow these things to become the normal?" This guy is a cross between Miss South Carolina and a youth pastor.
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Jan 9, 2016 18:58
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MaxxBot posted:I'm sure if you just leave them alone most of then will go home eventually but what if some decide to stay there permanently? They can go in to town and get supplies whenever they want and I'm guessing they can get enough wingnut welfare to continue doing so, what do you do in that case? Start suing them and seizing their assets.
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Jan 9, 2016 18:59
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Crain posted:So the wheels of justice are slow, and not necessarily racist. Is that your point PTD? So far the feds can get them for....squatting? A few petty misdemeanors? Well poo poo guys, some community service and a few weeks in jail will sure stop them from ever doing this again. Full on armed entry Waco style and hope they don't fire back or that it turns into a massacre? I vote leave it alone, let it fail on it's own, then round up the dickwads when they have some real charges and send fines to the rest. Give the ring leaders time to really gently caress up since there's nothing there to endanger beyond the paint on the walls so the leaders get serious prison time and not just some light duty hand slapping
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Jan 9, 2016 19:05
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As a Millennial I posted:"What are we to do? Are we to just go home, and allow these things to become the normal?" This could be grammatical, cf. Baudrillard's "the real"
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Jan 9, 2016 19:16
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Evil Fluffy posted:
Yea, PTD is stuck in his contrarian bullshit death spiral. Time to put him on ignore. It's been a drag on the thread for dozens of pages now. Doctor Butts fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Jan 9, 2016 |
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Jan 9, 2016 19:27
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MaxxBot posted:I'm sure if you just leave them alone most of then will go home eventually but what if some decide to stay there permanently? They can go in to town and get supplies whenever they want and I'm guessing they can get enough wingnut welfare to continue doing so, what do you do in that case? I suppose you let that become their prison then.
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Jan 9, 2016 19:28
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SocketWrench posted:So far the feds can get them for....squatting? A few petty misdemeanors? Well poo poo guys, some community service and a few weeks in jail will sure stop them from ever doing this again. Full on armed entry Waco style and hope they don't fire back or that it turns into a massacre? Except leaving it alone seems to be increasing the likelihood that they're going to be there longer, not decreasing it, and with more people joining the situation has become more dangerous and harder to resolve if things change and they have to do something more aggressive. You guys keep saying there's nothing there to endanger, but you seem dedicated to ignoring the fact these assholes are going into town literally every single day. Hell, apparently at least a few are staying in motels rather than at the refuge. I know if I lived in Burns I'd be pretty intimidated by heavily armed militants openly fantasizing about fighting federal agents coming and going absolutely freely, especially when I've been told some of those federal agents in town are undercover. If they had sealed off the refuge the first day or so, then waited them out (outside of firing range, or at least outside of easy firing range), this would very likely be over already, possibly bloodlessly. Now they've got more supplies, more people with guns, and possibly (? I haven't seen it confirmed) children on site. They're far more able to withstand any kind of attempt to remove them or get them to remove themselves now precisely because of this idea that 'oh no, if we just close our eyes and plug our ears they'll go away because surely crazy armed militants convinced they're in a struggle for the survival of their way of life will act rationally despite not one of their actions to this point having been rational in the slightest'.
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Jan 9, 2016 19:32
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SocketWrench posted:So far the feds can get them for....squatting? A few petty misdemeanors? So you're joining the PTD school of "just gonna ignore what laws are and what's been done" huh? They've made threats against Law Enforcement, that's assault. They did it with the implication of using their guns to kill law enforcement if they come to arrest them, that's assault with a deadly weapon. They have stolen federal property (BLM trucks they've been using), that's a felony. They've committed breaking and entering. They have also gone so far as to state they will form a lynch mob (although using some Sov Cit term) and execute the local Sheriff should he "fail in his duties", which means if he actually tries to arrest them or otherwise fail to kiss their dicks. Plus more depending on how much time you want to spend arguing the definition of things like sedition. These guys didn't just go camping on the refuge and decide not to leave after 14 days or whatever the limit for camping is. They're not just squatting.
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Jan 9, 2016 19:32
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Popular Thug Drink posted:well yeah, so far the only people actually calling for a waco-style siege are the left leaners who allegedly don't agree with this group's plans yet somehow, strangely, have the same goals ??? Once again you think that a criminal saying "please arrest me" are magic words that mean authorities should do absolutely nothing to impede a criminal. But yes, we're the crazy one because we think the rule of law shouldn't be thrown into the garbage because the perpetrator happen to be white.
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Jan 9, 2016 19:33
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SedanChair posted:This could be grammatical, cf. Baudrillard's "the real" How close is Baudrillard's conception of the real to Lacan's?
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Jan 9, 2016 19:33
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Vulture Culture posted:It's also a pretty hilarious next step from a demo that largely believes there are dozens of guarded terrorist training camps in rural areas of the United States. The white wing militias constantly project their own actions as fears of what The Others* are doing. Though this can probably be applied to the entire religious right wing considering the War on Christians is actually Christians being mad about the US not being a Theocracy that enforces their specific, largely heretical, beliefs. * people who aren't White Christian Real Americans. Not the ice zombies from ASOIAF.
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Jan 9, 2016 19:44
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Guys you don't understand, ISIS wants to be fought. Therefore we should just ignore them and do whatever they want. If you think we should be doing something to stop them then you're just giving them what they want. Stupid idiot leftists have the same goal as ISIS.
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Jan 9, 2016 19:46
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Uhh, that's kind of a retarded argument to make. ISIS wants western militaries to put boots on the ground in Syria so they can drum up more support, convince other syrian rebels to join up with them, and because of a misguided apocalyptic belief that they're destined to lose to Rome which some of them profess. So instead of doing that we just funnel arms to Syrians fighting them, and drop bombs on them from 10,000 feet up where they can't do poo poo about it. It's a poor metaphor, and you're loving it up, but since it doesn't really apply anyway you're not really doing any harm to the argument? Whatever, dude.
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Jan 9, 2016 19:51
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Who What Now posted:Guys you don't understand, ISIS wants to be fought. Therefore we should just ignore them and do whatever they want. If you think we should be doing something to stop them then you're just giving them what they want. Stupid idiot leftists have the same goal as ISIS. That's quite a strawman argument you've made there. Take your argument down the yellowbrick road and get it a brain. TIA
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Jan 9, 2016 20:06
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kartikeya posted:Except leaving it alone seems to be increasing the likelihood that they're going to be there longer, not decreasing it, and with more people joining the situation has become more dangerous and harder to resolve if things change and they have to do something more aggressive. You guys keep saying there's nothing there to endanger, but you seem dedicated to ignoring the fact these assholes are going into town literally every single day. Hell, apparently at least a few are staying in motels rather than at the refuge. I know if I lived in Burns I'd be pretty intimidated by heavily armed militants openly fantasizing about fighting federal agents coming and going absolutely freely, especially when I've been told some of those federal agents in town are undercover. You've made some interesting points but I'm not sure I quite follow. would you care to cite some sources? 
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Jan 9, 2016 20:26
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Who What Now posted:Guys you don't understand, ISIS wants to be fought. Therefore we should just ignore them and do whatever they want. If you think we should be doing something to stop them then you're just giving them what they want. Stupid idiot leftists have the same goal as ISIS. To be fair, they want an unsustainable commitment of US ground forces to pick away at. I doubt they want to have Kurds pushing their poo poo in while Americans untouchably drop bombs on their heads. Unless you're saying we should drop a JDAM on the Bundy crew in which case 
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Jan 9, 2016 20:33
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Tin Gang posted:You've made some interesting points but I'm not sure I quite follow. would you care to cite some sources? I'm not entirely sure what you're looking for sources on. I mean, sources being pretty much every single article posted in this thread? The one thing I haven't seen confirmed by any of those is children on site.
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Jan 9, 2016 20:38
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Thump! posted:To be fair, they want an unsustainable commitment of US ground forces to pick away at. I doubt they want to have Kurds pushing their poo poo in while Americans untouchably drop bombs on their heads. Daesh basically wanted Obama to be an inept poo poo like Bush jr was, but instead Obama's been smart about involvement and as a result Daesh is getting bombed and crying about it while losing territory.
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Jan 9, 2016 20:53
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