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Dubplate Fire posted:I meant to play the song out of key so it is in fact good, even though your ears hurt, because I meant to play the wrong notes. "The prequels hurt me to watch... I can't stand it... I'm in agony at the prequels...." I do not experience this frailty.
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Jan 9, 2016 19:38
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:"The prequels hurt me to watch... I can't stand it... I'm in agony at the prequels...." You are gifted with the power of autism.
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Jan 9, 2016 19:49
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bruvs be4 luvs
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Dubplate Fire posted:You are gifted with the power of autism. This is you unintentionally revealing your whole bizarre ideology. Dubplate Fire posted:I meant to play the song out of key so it is in fact good, even though your ears hurt, because I meant to play the wrong notes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dp3BlFZWJNA
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Jan 9, 2016 19:52
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turtlecrunch posted:Him being in the distance and blurred out doesn't make for good gif material but here you go buddy (I think this is the part you're talking about): Nice! Thank you.  quote:Almost forgot this one too. Now, see, to be fair, that's what the actors had to work with, but for a production that costs hundreds of millions, you'd think they'd make it easier on the actors.
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Jan 9, 2016 19:54
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Chucat posted:This reminds me of something, right after Anakin turns and Palpatine tells him to go to the Jedi Temple to kill everyone, there's the shots of Anakin walking into the Temple with Clone Troopers that look really cool. What I'm wondering is was the birds eye view shot where they walk through shadow cribbed from Triumph of the Will or something? You know, I was about to say I just didn't really get into the scene of Anakin marching up the stairs with the clone troops, but I do really like that bird's eye shot. I don't know if that angle has been used anywhere else in any Star Wars films.
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Jan 9, 2016 19:57
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You can play out of key if you know what you are doing. George Lucas don't go the skills to play out of key.
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Jan 9, 2016 19:57
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Dubplate Fire posted:You can play out of key if you know what you are doing. George Lucas don't go the skills to play out of key. How do you, specifically, judge the difference? (not a rhetorical question)
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Jan 9, 2016 19:59
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Dubplate Fire posted:You are gifted with the power of autism. Autism would involve extreme sensitivity to sound, not the opposite. It's not a synonym for 'bad' - like, "these carrots are so autistic, mom!"
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Jan 9, 2016 20:05
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Lord Krangdar posted:How do you, specifically, judge the difference? That's the risk you take when you make intentional bad art. People might not like it. By your definition Sharknado is like the best movie ever because it was so intentionally bad.
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Jan 9, 2016 20:06
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Lord Krangdar posted:How do you, specifically, judge the difference? (not a rhetorical question) Classically, you look at the rest of the piece and find the harmonic chords the composer uses to resolve the dissonance. Padme/Anakin romantic dialog is always lovely and there are no other romantic relationships in the PT to compare them to.
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Jan 9, 2016 20:12
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The prequels are not 'bad on purpose'. They are very well-made films that make fun of you.
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Jan 9, 2016 20:20
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The prequels are not 'bad on purpose'. They are very well-made films that make fun of you. George Lucas is a fine artist but a poor craftsman.
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Jan 9, 2016 20:24
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Squinty posted:George Lucas is a fine artist but a poor craftsman. You do understand that that's behind-the-scenes footage, right?
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Jan 9, 2016 20:27
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Jack Gladney posted:Does anyone defend the special editions over the originals? For all but a handful of the most egregious changes, yes. The cleaned up effects in things like the Battle of Yavin and the Battle of Hoth are worth having blinking ewoks and a Jabba in docking bay 94.
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Jan 9, 2016 20:28
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Dubplate Fire posted:You are obviously not an artist. You don't even understand the process at all. Go for it, artist. It's a discussion thread. Tell us why you would take somebody's suggestion without believing the suggested change would improve the work.
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Jan 9, 2016 20:29
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:You do understand that that's behind-the-scenes footage, right? The finished scene looks much worse, because the extras are holding glowing sticks that draw attention to the fact that they have no idea what's going on.
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Jan 9, 2016 20:36
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Squinty posted:The finished scene looks much worse, because the extras are holding glowing sticks that draw attention to the fact that they have no idea what's going on. Just like the Jedi.
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Jan 9, 2016 20:39
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Squinty posted:The finished scene looks much worse, because the extras are holding glowing sticks that draw attention to the fact that they have no idea what's going on. The finished scene looks like this: 
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Jan 9, 2016 20:40
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Red posted:Since we're all complaining about the PT, I thought I'd list the things I do like: Yeah working through the PT with the family now and agree with all this. BUt also the costumes are fantastic in every movie. I think poeople in this thread should give the PT another go on blu ray on a proper large TV. They are pretty great. euphronius fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Jan 9, 2016 |
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Jan 9, 2016 20:49
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It can be helpful to get constructive advice and criticism and so on when putting together a film, but I feel like this has been exaggerated into a fantasy where if Just Someone Had Told Lucas No we'd have had way better movies with no Jar-Jar and better dialogue and less CGI and so on. But WOULD these hypothetical good influences have said the right things, as we consider them? Would they have had the foresight to put the films together better? Constraints are good, sometimes. They were good on the set of Jaws, they were not so good on the set of Alien 3. David Lynch's Dune was not helped by his not having final cut. In the dispute over Brazil, Terry Gilliam actually adopted a few studio suggestions which even made it into his preferred Director's Cut (the opening with the clouds and the song so people know "this is why the movie is called Brazil" for example), but was entirely right to hold fast on the ending. Sometimes it's good to have a second opinion, sometimes you need to tell them to go gently caress themselves. (It is worth pointing out that Lucas had a co-writer on Clones and Tom Stoppard did uncredited rewrites to Revenge of the Sith- and apparently George even handed the camera off to Ewan MacGregor for one scene and had Spielberg working on another.) What worries me is that this is starting to expand beyond Star Wars to movies and indeed other media, this idea that artistic indulgence must be distrusted- it comes up a lot in discussions of movies from people like Nolan, Tarantino, Snyder, Ridley Scott, etc. TV threads too like to get into this notion that showrunners "disappear up their own rear end", i.e. do weird things instead of sticking to what people expect. While constraints certainly help, I feel like on balance, there's already too much on filmmakers as is- I can name way more examples of movies being hurt by studio meddling and too many "fresh eyes" on the project than ones that were helped. So I'm glad Lucas got to indulge himself, same as I'm glad movies like Cloud Atlas, Gremlins 2, Brazil, etc. keep slipping through the system.
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Jan 9, 2016 20:49
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Got that in gif form?
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Jan 9, 2016 20:50
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Jack Gladney posted:Does anyone defend the special editions over the originals? Yeah, I prefer them. They were my first experience seeing Star Wars in a theater and it was pretty incredible. I haven't actually watched the unaltered movies since probably around the time you could get the special editions on DVD, but we still have the VHS tapes around here somewhere.
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Jan 9, 2016 20:51
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jivjov posted:For all but a handful of the most egregious changes, yes. The cleaned up effects in things like the Battle of Yavin and the Battle of Hoth are worth having blinking ewoks and a Jabba in docking bay 94. I really like the extra Cloud City stuff. In the original cut the interiors are just a tad too claustrophobic when it should be this splendiferous thing (it's literally the Hawkmen's floating palace from Flash Gordon) so digitally adding a few more windows and flybys makes it look better in general. Kinda like the expanded Mos Eisley too. Like, the original cut maybe conveys more of the "rear end-end of space" element of the place, but the SE version looks more like a busy spaceport with lots of stuff going on.
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Jan 9, 2016 20:52
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Maxwell Lord posted:Kinda like the expanded Mos Eisley too. Like, the original cut maybe conveys more of the "rear end-end of space" element of the place, but the SE version looks more like a busy spaceport with lots of stuff going on. Agreed; although I wish the mos eisley stuff didn't look as much like mid 90s CGI than it does.
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Jan 9, 2016 20:55
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Jack Gladney posted:Does anyone defend the special editions over the originals? Yeah they looks 100x better.
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Jan 9, 2016 20:57
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Gorelab posted:I think he shows up in the flashbacks she has too. So there's that. I do still kinda hope Finn gets some force ability himself just because I think it'd make a nice contrast, the prodigy versus the more normal guy. The PT having more jedi that you could even handle, the OT only having Obi-Wan and Luke, and the ST having a small group trying to rebuild the Order. Yeah, for many reasons I really don't want Luke and Rey to just play out the parts of Obi-Wan and Luke in the OT. Whether it's specifically Finn or someone(s) else, I hope the overall story does end up being "a small group trying to rebuild the Order", not least of which because it would feel like a better payoff to Luke's story and it wouldn't feel like the whole Jedi story is derivative of the originals.
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Jan 9, 2016 20:57
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The finished scene looks like this: That's a very pretty screenshot from KOTOR but I thought we were talking about movies. You don't think that the actors would have given a better performance if they knew where things are supposed to be in the scene? Do you think "do whatever, we'll make it look good in post" is solid film craft?
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Jan 9, 2016 20:59
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homullus posted:I agree with everything you said about this, except as it relates to the PT's shortcomings being the result of artistic excess. Are you referring to the Great Satan, CG? I didn't go back through your posts, but my impression is that your criticisms lie elsewhere. My opinion is that those around Lucas did not push their opinions and skill in their craft when Lucas made a decision others disagreed with (see the RLM montage of uneasy sidelong stares), perhaps for fear of ending up not working on a new Star Wars. A lot of the issues people have with the films could be either resolved or significantly resolved with revisions and more collaboration. Some examples I've picked up through time that, I personally feel, are evident of this: - Following the first test-screening of TPM, His co-producer (editor?) tries to explain that the final sequence is too busy, that there are too many conflicting emotional rises and fails to keep the viewer involved. After a moment of silence with Lucas he walks this back, suggesting that this could be "cleaned up in editing". - In numerous clips you see Lucas coaching the actors on what to say before a retake; this is normal, but what isn't is for the actor to quietly look down at the floor and nod. Typically the response will be an explanation of what their intent was on that take, what they are going for. This kind of defense was how Ford got his way in a number of scenes of the OT, and resulted (IMO) in a superior work. - when Lucas visits his sculptors to examine the alien designs, everyone waits with baited breath; you don't see the creator of the sculpture explaining and defending his intent, you don't see anyone working during this, everyone is waiting to see if Lucas will give Dexter Jettster Sculpt 001 a thumbs-up or thumbs-down. - Adam Savage shared an anecdote in a video where he displayed his old work-models; he was assigned to and spent a significant number of hours creating a prototype/precursor to a ship from the original trilogy. Upon presenting this to Lucas the chat went along the lines of "This looks like a [SW ship]" "yeah, that's the idea; it's a precursor to the original" "but...the reason the original looked like that was because it was made out of plywood and styrofoam!". Obviously the films ultimately went with a Golden Age aesthetic, but it still seemed from the anecdote that he was unwilling to push for or defend making the precursor worse-looking. - "it's going to be good" "it's going to be great." "It's going to be great" Obviously this is entirely a theory (just like everything else ITT", but it feels that there was a general aura of fear and concern with upsetting Lucas (that doesn't necessarily require Lucas himself acting to enforce this) that kept craftsmen from asserting their knowledge of their craft to ensure the Director's rough intentions are honed and refined. Everyone seems to go with their first instruction, and wait for Lucas to correct them. As for specific problems with the PT: the dialogue is rough to an absurd extent, the camera shots are often dull and uninspired (typically a 3/4ths facial shot, or flat landscape view of the set), the effects age poorly in a number of shots (typically when the actors walk througb a CG environment that isn't angled head-on), there's noone you can really relate to (which is rather important if you really are going for a "charismatic leader exploits regular folk to establish an empire at constant war"), and any sort of political commentary flies entirely over the audience's heads (in a "they aren't immersed into the movie enough to look for it" sense, not a "proving the point" sense) which I (personally) consider a failure. This doesn't mean that they are without merit (and even in RLM's critiques you see them point out positive aspects). But it is possible for a film to hold merit but still be ultimately disappointing; hence "interesting failure".
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Jan 9, 2016 21:00
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Since Geonosis and alien coliseums full of bug people do not currently exist compromises have to be made in order to make sci fi fantasy movies.
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Jan 9, 2016 21:01
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Are you sure they weren't told where anything was gonna be? Every making-of bit I've seen on Ep. II they still had people doing stuff to set sightlines and such.
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Jan 9, 2016 21:02
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Jack Gladney posted:Does anyone defend the special editions over the originals?  ) the moment when he pulled the trigger, so that it at least looked believable? Maybe do from Han's POV with a body double for Ford, I don't know.If they could have made that one change look good, then I'd not have any complaints about the special editions I saw on the big screen. Picklepuss fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Jan 9, 2016 |
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Jan 9, 2016 21:02
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I have never ever understood the Han Shoots first "controversy" and I've seen the film like 100+ times in both versions.
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Jan 9, 2016 21:04
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There's no one set way that people on a set respond to being told to read differently or art directors respond to critiques. A LOT of the quarterbacking of the making-of videos involves creative interpretation of human behavior without actually knowing these specific people or how they normally interact. The idea that they all Know This Is Going To Suck and are too scared to say anything is a little dubious.
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Jan 9, 2016 21:05
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When people say they want the original editions in good quality they really are saying they want the special editions minus the three or four things they don't like
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Jan 9, 2016 21:07
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Maxwell Lord posted:The idea that they all Know This Is Going To Suck and are too scared to say anything is a little dubious. I don't think everyone thought it would suck, but I feel that a number of hills were formed that nobody was willing to die on, resulting in a "Death by a Thousand Cuts" effect. The special edition shenanigans ultimately exist because they aren't "allowed" an unedited edition, resulting in natural rebellion and a display of just how strong Nostalgia can be. The Hayden Ghost and Noooooo are really stupid edits, though. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 21:14 on Jan 9, 2016 |
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Jan 9, 2016 21:12
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homullus posted:Go for it, artist. It's a discussion thread. Tell us why you would take somebody's suggestion without believing the suggested change would improve the work. Geoge Lucas didn't take any suggestion, he will never think anyone's suggestions will improve the work.
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Jan 9, 2016 21:12
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euphronius posted:I have never ever understood the Han Shoots first "controversy" and I've seen the film like 100+ times in both versions. It is actually quite a simple thing to understand and I'm sure in the past two decades or so you've had someone explain it to you. greatn posted:When people say they want the original editions in good quality they really are saying they want the special editions minus the three or four things they don't like When I was watching the despecialized edition recently I was quite glad about the lack of terrible Mos Eisley monsters crossing in front of the poo poo but disappointed about Cloud City being so lackluster from what I remembered of the Special Editions. What would be nice is if Disney ever goes back and does a final special edition where the downright weird poo poo like Han and Greedo shooting at the same time, the Obi-Wan 'yargh', and Darth Vader screaming 'Noooo' when killing the Emperor all gets excised and the non-offensive changes get updated a tad. Proposition Joe fucked around with this message at 21:16 on Jan 9, 2016 |
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Jan 9, 2016 21:13
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euphronius posted:Yeah they looks 100x better. What are you talking about? You are clearly trolling. The 90s CGI looks so out of place in those movies.
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Jan 9, 2016 21:15
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Dubplate Fire posted:Geoge Lucas didn't take any suggestion, he will never think anyone's suggestions will improve the work. So why did he let MacGregor direct a scene?
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Jan 9, 2016 21:17
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greatn posted:Got that in gif form? Gifs are often used misleadingly - like in the infamous 'twirling lightsabers' meme, that cuts out the context from before and after that fraction of a second, where it is very obvious that the characters are preparing to strike. The gif turtlecrunch posted is also being used to deceive. By removing the context, it makes it look like bad sword-fighting, when the characters are not in a sword-fight at all. They're blocking random projectiles coming in from all directions. The gif also obscures the basic geometric relationship between the jedi and the droids: the jedi are in a circle, creating a wall. So though each character is moving 'randomly' (because the attacks from outside are random), there's a clear, unified plan. Squinty posted:You don't think that the actors would have given a better performance if they knew where things are supposed to be in the scene? Do you think "do whatever, we'll make it look good in post" is solid film craft? So this is pure fantasy. Squinty is imagining things that obviously never happened. The actors were obviously told that they have to act as though they're surrounded and being peppered with random projectiles. And they are. Also, this is what the videogame Knights Of The Old Republic 2 actually looks like:  See if you can spot the differences.
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Jan 9, 2016 21:17
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