Not these assholes again: Bundy sons, Militia seize federal building

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Not these assholes again: Bundy sons, Militia seize federal building

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Colin Mockery: Jun 24, 2007; Rawr

Actually, eating raw meat (and organs) every day provides enough vitamin C to keep you from getting scurvy. :eng101:

# ? Jan 10, 2016 21:34

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# ? May 23, 2024 18:11

az: Dec 2, 2005

Crain posted:

It's actually extremely hard to get scurvy on accident in the modern era. We add so many extra vitamins and minerals to just random junk foods that you're probably good no matter what you do.

The only people who get scurvy anymore are people who do really dumb, extreme diets. Like meat only or only licking celery once a day.

Scurvy has actually been coming back in recent years, mostly in low income housing and the homeless population, but also college students with poor diets and those living in food deserts. And not just in the third world but in London, Michigan and California to name a few. Since it is not on anyone's radar anymore it's often misdiagnosed or goes completly undiagnosed because the afflicted lack access to medical care.

# ? Jan 10, 2016 21:36

Vienna Circlejerk: Jan 28, 2003; The great science sausage party!

Kazak_Hstan posted:

I like that some of you seem to think federal public lands offices have absolutely no ongoing work and we just, like, whittle sticks all day or something, but that is not in fact true.

making GBS threads on the usefulness of the work of government employees (except ARE TROOPS and the Boys in Blue) at all levels has been part of our national culture for forever.

Anyway, do you work for Fish & Wildlife? I've been trying to figure out how law enforcement works for their facilities (and I freely admit I know poo poo all about law enforcement), but the best I can determine is that their own law enforcement personnel don't handle anything that doesn't involved animal smuggling or loving up nature in some way (and being a Fish & Wildlife agent actually sounds like a pretty cool job for that reason). I'm trying to figure out if this is a case where the federal government is, for law enforcement purposes, acting as a proprietor and law enforcement is legally in the hands of the sheriff.

https://www.fletc.gov/audio/territorial-jurisdiction-federal-property-mp3 has a pretty good discussion of how law enforcement works for federal property (there's a transcript on the page to accompany the audio file). From the page:

quote:

Perry: The largest percentage of federal land is held in a category known as proprietary jurisdiction.

Solari: Well based on the name, sounds to me like that must mean Uncle Sam acts like a normal proprietor -- a property owner -- would act.

Perry: That's mostly correct. When the ownership of a piece of land, government land, is considered proprietary, the government is said to have taken over none of the state's obligations for law enforcement. In other words, state and local law enforcement officers still handle calls for service as if the land were privately owned. The sheriff or city police will respond and they'll handle calls without regard to the property's ownership.

Solari: But realistically, the U.S. government's not really like a private landowner. I mean private landowners don't have their own legislative branch to make laws and regulations, for example. They don't have their own court systems.

Perry: Absolutely right. The Property Clause of the United States Constitution gives Congress the authority to make and enforce all necessary rules and regulations to protect federal property, including property that is held in proprietary jurisdiction status.

...

Solari: Ok, well and of course, a private landlord can't create his own police force to enforce the special rules or regulations that he created for his private property.

Perry: Unlike a private landlord, Congress has the authority to create law enforcement organizations to patrol and to protect areas of federal property. Violations occurring within the federal land will then be handled by a federal law enforcement officer. This occurs on many of our land management areas, national parks, national refuges and forests, and BLM lands, as well as in developed areas and federal buildings protected and patrolled by many of our federal police agencies. Many of them have their own CFR regulations that are enforced within their property.

They go on to discuss concurrent and exclusive jurisdiction, so I'm guessing that this wildlife refuge falls under the case where the jurisdiction is proprietary, with US Fish & Wildlife empowered to enforce its own rules as well. I can't quite figure out how that plays out when we have people violating other (non-F&W) federal laws on F&W land, though.

Vienna Circlejerk fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Jan 10, 2016

# ? Jan 10, 2016 21:43

Crain: Jun 27, 2007; I had a beer once with Stephen Miller and now I like him.

I also tried to ban someone from a Discord for pointing out what an unrelenting shithead I am! I'm even dumb enough to think it worked!

az posted:

Scurvy has actually been coming back in recent years, mostly in low income housing and the homeless population, but also college students with poor diets and those living in food deserts. And not just in the third world but in London, Michigan and California to name a few. Since it is not on anyone's radar anymore it's often misdiagnosed or goes completly undiagnosed because the afflicted lack access to medical care.

Well poo poo.

# ? Jan 10, 2016 21:50

CommanderApaul: Aug 30, 2003; It's amazing their hands can support such awesome.

Kazak_Hstan posted:

Every computer network that building is connects to has to be treated as compromised. It's going to cost money to figure out what they've accessed and repair damage.

I'll go into briefly why this is probably not the case.

NIST has a standard workstation configuration that is required to be used by all government agencies and moderately hardens the workstation from outside access. Smart card certificate authentication is required for access, so even if someone left their domain credentials laying around, they're useless. There's a local admin account but you can't access it because GPO's force you to use a card. If you can actually get ahold of the local admin account credentials, you can disable the GPO by booting into safe mode, but that would require generating a recovery key to temporarily disable bitlocker. You could pull the hard drive, but again, Bitlocker. So the local workstations themselves, as long as they're following the NIST standard, are more than likely secure. Servers are required to have similar access restrictions.

Network wise, they should have port security turned on on the switches, so as soon as they plug anything into the LAN it's going to lock out the port at the switch level for using an unregistered MAC address. If they have wifi in the building, it's required to be password protected and authentication is certificate based again, so they aren't going to find a wifi password laying around that they can throw into their iPad or whatever. There may be a guest wifi, but it'll be VLANed off from the secured network.

On top of all of that, I highly doubt that the local building isn't wired into some national Dept of the Interior or Dept of Fish and Wildlife network, and the agency-level LAN admins will have full authority to firewall off every subnet assigned to that site from the rest of the network, and that's something that would have gotten done within hours of the takeover of the site. "Cut the hardlines" if you will. There should be both onsite and offsite backups of anything server-side, so the only thing that has a chance of becoming permanently unrecoverable would be documents stored on local workstations. If their system admins are worth their salary (ours aren't but whatever), they'll have roaming profiles or an offline files sync setup so that may even be recoverable as well. Someone's music collection or pictures of grandma's retirement party may end up missing, but probably little else.

Lastly, I think a bunch of rednecks who can't figure out how to dress properly for cold weather aren't going to be the most tech savvy people in the world. IT will come back in after this is over and find all the O, B, M and A keys missing from all the keyboards and that's probably it.

CommanderApaul fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Jan 10, 2016

# ? Jan 10, 2016 21:53

Discendo Vox: Mar 21, 2013; We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Vienna Circlejerk posted:

jurisdiction chat

State law enforcement (i.e. the sheriff) and the FBI both have jurisdiction. The militants are violating non-BLM federal laws on federal property. Even if the only violations were of BLM regs on BLM land, there are agreements and laws that would permit BLM or other groups to let the FBI get involved.

# ? Jan 10, 2016 22:24

Kazak_Hstan: Apr 28, 2014; Grimey Drawer

Vienna Circlejerk posted:

making GBS threads on the usefulness of the work of government employees (except ARE TROOPS and the Boys in Blue) at all levels has been part of our national culture for forever.

Anyway, do you work for Fish & Wildlife? I've been trying to figure out how law enforcement works for their facilities (and I freely admit I know poo poo all about law enforcement), but the best I can determine is that their own law enforcement personnel don't handle anything that doesn't involved animal smuggling or loving up nature in some way (and being a Fish & Wildlife agent actually sounds like a pretty cool job for that reason). I'm trying to figure out if this is a case where the federal government is, for law enforcement purposes, acting as a proprietor and law enforcement is legally in the hands of the sheriff.

https://www.fletc.gov/audio/territorial-jurisdiction-federal-property-mp3 has a pretty good discussion of how law enforcement works for federal property (there's a transcript on the page to accompany the audio file). From the page:

They go on to discuss concurrent and exclusive jurisdiction, so I'm guessing that this wildlife refuge falls under the case where the jurisdiction is proprietary, with US Fish & Wildlife empowered to enforce its own rules as well. I can't quite figure out how that plays out when we have people violating other (non-F&W) federal laws on F&W land, though.

I'm NPS, but we work substantially the same as FWS, at least as concerns things within a FWS unit. They have some national jurisdiction that relates to endangered / migratory / treaty-implicated species.

The primary limitation imposed on federal law enforcement in proprietary jurisdiction is that the normal run of the mill crimes (theft, assault, rape, murder, assuming they are just between private people and not involving a govt employee or property) are a stage / local matter. That is, if my park is proprietary jurisdiction and someone steals your iPhone out of your car, I will likely tell you it is a matter for the troopers. That said, we do have some tools in the CFR for basic law enforcement, however they are limited to misdemeanor (6 months / $5,000 max) punishments. So if the state simply won't do anything on federal land (which happens in some places due to resources) we have options, they are just underwhelming in the case of more serious crimes.

Proprietary jurisdiction does nothing to limit the federal government's jurisdiction to respond to offenses against the government. We retain criminal tools with real teeth to deal with that. If I ask for your fishing license and you punch me in the face I do not have to say gosh that's an assault so it's a state matter. That is a violation of federal law and I'm fully equipped to deal with that.

More specifically, the federal laws we can't enforce on proprietary jurisdiction lands are the ones that depend on "special maritime and territorial jurisdiction," which are largely found in title 18 of the USC. However, lots of federal laws (such as those falling under the commerce clause, like drug and firearm offenses) don't require SMTJ, and thus are fair game for a FLEO operating in proprietary jurisdiction. Proprietary jurisdiction changes the game somewhat, but it doesn't put us out of the law enforcement business.

To put it in terms of this standoff, the sheriff could plausibly respond to quite a bit of it. Burglary is still a violation of state law, even if it's a federal building. Vehicle theft is still a crime under state law, even if it's a federal vehicle. But they do not have power to enforce the laws that specifically apply to interfering with federal officials, nor do they likely have the budget or resources we do. If, on the other hand, you decide to walk out there and shoot one of the militiamen while he's peeing in the bushes, the county/state is the entity with the power to prosecute you for murder. A lot of the parceling out of responsibility comes down to who ought to pay, and less down to who has sufficient authority, because all relevant law enforcement authorities have some kind of power to do something in most realistic scenarios.

As a matter of national policy, the Dept of Interior prefers concurrent jurisdiction because it is the most flexible. We have full authority to enforce all laws, but state and local resources are available where it makes sense and the local partner is willing. Some western states don't want us to have anything more than proprietary jurisdiction because they don't want the federal government to have power.

Edit: forgot to add in some areas, the county/state will deputize rangers to enforce state laws because it saves them the cost of responding to our areas. Jurisdiction and federal lands in the west is relatively complicated.

Kazak_Hstan fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Jan 10, 2016

# ? Jan 10, 2016 22:25

Bates: Jun 15, 2006

Horking Delight posted:

I'm pretty sure eating the slice of tomato from a burger you buy at the local restaurant is enough to keep you from getting scurvy.

I'm gonna be pissed if they stay the several months necessary to develop scurvy.

Why would they get scurvy when they can just go shopping? They might not be the brightest but I'm sure they know how to buy groceries.

# ? Jan 10, 2016 22:26

Kazak_Hstan: Apr 28, 2014; Grimey Drawer

CommanderApaul posted:

I'll go into briefly why this is probably not the case.

NIST has a standard workstation configuration that is required to be used by all government agencies and moderately hardens the workstation from outside access. Smart card certificate authentication is required for access, so even if someone left their domain credentials laying around, they're useless. There's a local admin account but you can't access it because GPO's force you to use a card. If you can actually get ahold of the local admin account credentials, you can disable the GPO by booting into safe mode, but that would require generating a recovery key to temporarily disable bitlocker. You could pull the hard drive, but again, Bitlocker. So the local workstations themselves, as long as they're following the NIST standard, are more than likely secure. Servers are required to have similar access restrictions.

Network wise, they should have port security turned on on the switches, so as soon as they plug anything into the LAN it's going to lock out the port at the switch level for using an unregistered MAC address. If they have wifi in the building, it's required to be password protected and authentication is certificate based again, so they aren't going to find a wifi password laying around that they can throw into their iPad or whatever. There may be a guest wifi, but it'll be VLANed off from the secured network.

On top of all of that, I highly doubt that the local building isn't wired into some national Dept of the Interior or Dept of Fish and Wildlife network, and the agency-level LAN admins will have full authority to firewall off every subnet assigned to that site from the rest of the network, and that's something that would have gotten done within hours of the takeover of the site. "Cut the hardlines" if you will. There should be both onsite and offsite backups of anything server-side, so the only thing that has a chance of becoming permanently unrecoverable would be documents stored on local workstations. If their system admins are worth their salary (ours aren't but whatever), they'll have roaming profiles or an offline files sync setup so that may even be recoverable as well. Someone's music collection or pictures of grandma's retirement party may end up missing, but probably little else.

Lastly, I think a bunch of rednecks who can't figure out how to dress properly for cold weather aren't going to be the most tech savvy people in the world. IT will come back in after this is over and find all the O, B, M and A keys missing from all the keyboards and that's probably it.

I'm not an IT guy so I'll defer to you here. The one thing I would offer as a counterpoint though is that if someone leaves their smart card at their desk (which is common) and writes down their login password (because you have to change it every 60 days and your network admin gets frustrated the third or fourth time you call for a password reset because you forgot your new password), everything their workstation has access to is vulnerable until someone turns off their account and/or does something to control that building's access.

# ? Jan 10, 2016 22:28

Joementum: May 23, 2004; jesus christ

John Dolan aka Gary Brecher aka the War Nerd and Mark Ames interviewed the first journalist on the scene in Burns, who's talked to a lot of the militia guys, and talk about the tactical situation and why the Feds probably haven't stormed the compound.

# ? Jan 10, 2016 22:48

Vienna Circlejerk: Jan 28, 2003; The great science sausage party!

Kazak_Hstan posted:

[in addition to lots of other useful and interesting information]

To put it in terms of this standoff, the sheriff could plausibly respond to quite a bit of it. Burglary is still a violation of state law, even if it's a federal building. Vehicle theft is still a crime under state law, even if it's a federal vehicle. But they do not have power to enforce the laws that specifically apply to interfering with federal officials, nor do they likely have the budget or resources we do. If, on the other hand, you decide to walk out there and shoot one of the militiamen while he's peeing in the bushes, the county/state is the entity with the power to prosecute you for murder. A lot of the parceling out of responsibility comes down to who ought to pay, and less down to who has sufficient authority, because all relevant law enforcement authorities have some kind of power to do something in most realistic scenarios.

Thanks for explaining all that. Are Fish & Wildlife agents likely to be stuck with this at first? The Bundy ranch standoff didn't involve federal agencies besides the BLM until after the fact when the FBI supposedly opened an investigation, and the Branch Davidians were just ATF's problem until federal agents were actually killed and then the FBI took over. It seems logical that it would immediately expand to include the FBI, since this already involves the violation of federal laws beyond the ones that F&W is charged with enforcing, but sometimes logic and bureaucracy are not exactly congruent. I guess I'm just worried about the F&W agents whose normal jobs involve monkey smugglers suddenly having to deal with a bunch of armed shitheads who can't even figure out which agency they have a beef with.

# ? Jan 10, 2016 23:04

Captain Bravo: Feb 16, 2011; An Emergency Shitpost
has been deployed...

...but experts warn it is
just a drop in the ocean.

So, I'm betting this is how it will all play out in the end.

# ? Jan 10, 2016 23:37

ShadowHawk: Jun 25, 2000; CERTIFIED PRE OWNED TESLA OWNER

Crain posted:

The only people who get scurvy anymore are people who do really dumb, extreme diets. Like meat only or only licking celery once a day.

Actually, meat is a significant source of vitamin C. Most non-human animals can synthesize it.

# ? Jan 10, 2016 23:42

Mc Do Well: Aug 2, 2008; by FactsAreUseless

ShadowHawk posted:

Actually, meat is a significant source of vitamin C. Most non-human animals can synthesize it.

That God - what a Joker.

# ? Jan 10, 2016 23:43

Jewel Repetition: Dec 24, 2012; Ask me about Briar Rose and Chicken Chaser.

Any new developments with this? Are they still camping in the building with no interference and a lukewarm population around them?

# ? Jan 10, 2016 23:44

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

Joementum posted:

John Dolan aka Gary Brecher aka the War Nerd and Mark Ames interviewed the first journalist on the scene in Burns, who's talked to a lot of the militia guys, and talk about the tactical situation and why the Feds probably haven't stormed the compound.

You guys should listen to this.

# ? Jan 10, 2016 23:48

Astrofig: Oct 26, 2009

Jewel Repetition posted:

Any new developments with this? Are they still camping in the building with no interference and a lukewarm population around them?

http://news.yahoo.com/call-supplies-oregon-standoff-enters-second-week-195819638.html

They're begging for supplies now. This would be a good time to mail them some nasty canned crap. Worm snax, silkworm pupae, russian herring, smoked scorpion, etc.

# ? Jan 10, 2016 23:50

skaboomizzy: Nov 12, 2003; There is nothing I want to be. There is nothing I want to do.
I don't even have an image of what I want to be. I have nothing. All that exists is zero.

Others have suggested it, but I really hope someone sends them a few 5-pound bags of those sugar-free gummy bears that cause explosive diarrhea.

# ? Jan 10, 2016 23:54

Bates: Jun 15, 2006

Jewel Repetition posted:

Any new developments with this? Are they still camping in the building with no interference and a lukewarm population around them?

Of course. They have access to the media and a stage to get their message out nationally. They would be crazy to just leave that - it's invaluable.

# ? Jan 10, 2016 23:55

Bar Ran Dun: Jan 22, 2006

Ammon Bundy's bodyguard "Sunshine Unicorns"

# ? Jan 10, 2016 23:57

Astrofig: Oct 26, 2009

skaboomizzy posted:

Others have suggested it, but I really hope someone sends them a few 5-pound bags of those sugar-free gummy bears that cause explosive diarrhea.

I sent them some sugarfree gummie dicks that supposedly have the same effect.

# ? Jan 10, 2016 23:57

Crain: Jun 27, 2007; I had a beer once with Stephen Miller and now I like him.

I also tried to ban someone from a Discord for pointing out what an unrelenting shithead I am! I'm even dumb enough to think it worked!

Jewel Repetition posted:

Any new developments with this? Are they still camping in the building with no interference and a lukewarm population around them?

Depending on who you ask the answer is either "Not much different, still begging for stuff they should have brought with them" or "Nothing was ever wrong and these guys should be given the land and a few sloppy blowjobs."

# ? Jan 11, 2016 00:02

SocketWrench: Jul 8, 2012; by Fritz the Horse

Crain posted:

Completely untrue. Not even on a semantic level. They have done far more than just sticking around after closing time. You're being deliberately dishonest with how you're trying to describe the situation.

Multiple people, including me, have gone over the kinds of charges they are facing and it goes well beyond simply squatting.

I meant as far as accomplishing anything other than be annoying twats

# ? Jan 11, 2016 00:08

I would blow Dane Cook: Dec 26, 2008

Why are they asking for tampons?

# ? Jan 11, 2016 00:12

wedgie deliverer: Oct 2, 2010

Jumpingmanjim posted:

Why are they asking for tampons?

Can we empty quote this forever?

So as these shitclowns move out of the news cycle, how long do people think they're gonna hold out for?

# ? Jan 11, 2016 00:21

Xand_Man: Mar 2, 2004; If what you say is true
Wutang might be dangerous

There are women in the compound. They brought wives and girlfriends.

I wonder how much of the FBI's response has been dictated by the political climate? Since "Let's investigate the records of groups that are explicitly against paying taxes" became a justification for cutting funding to the IRS, it's understandable that the FBI might be feeling a little gunshy if they perceive that these guys have political allies.

# ? Jan 11, 2016 00:23

Crain: Jun 27, 2007; I had a beer once with Stephen Miller and now I like him.

I also tried to ban someone from a Discord for pointing out what an unrelenting shithead I am! I'm even dumb enough to think it worked!

SocketWrench posted:

I meant as far as accomplishing anything other than be annoying twats

Hold up, let me hook this generator up to your bike.

You're putting out some mad kilowatts with all that backpedaling.

# ? Jan 11, 2016 00:30

Slow News Day: Jul 4, 2007

Xand_Man posted:

There are women in the compound. They brought wives and girlfriends.

I wonder how much of the FBI's response has been dictated by the political climate? Since "Let's investigate the records of groups that are explicitly against paying taxes" became a justification for cutting funding to the IRS, it's understandable that the FBI might be feeling a little gunshy if they perceive that these guys have political allies.

Hasn't every single presidential candidate and even many conservative radio hosts (including Hannity, of all people) denounced them?

# ? Jan 11, 2016 00:31

Grey Fox: Jan 5, 2004

Since they're asking for money, I'm going to see if I can send them a stack of these: http://www.dailyfinance.com/2011/11/23/waiters-phony-10-tip-includes-religious-lesson/

# ? Jan 11, 2016 00:36

Thump!: Nov 25, 2007; Look, fat, here's the fact, Kulak!

Jumpingmanjim posted:

Why are they asking for tampons?

They've read the critically(comically) acclaimed(despised) Ghost by John Ringo?

# ? Jan 11, 2016 00:36

BaurusJA: Nov 13, 2015; It's cruel...it's playful... I like it

Grey Fox posted:

Since they're asking for money, I'm going to see if I can send them a stack of these: http://www.dailyfinance.com/2011/11/23/waiters-phony-10-tip-includes-religious-lesson/

Oh God that's brilliant. I was thinking of sending them monopoly money, hell it's almost as meaningful as real money at this point.
(Cough Financial Services Market)

# ? Jan 11, 2016 00:40

Setset: Apr 14, 2012; Grimey Drawer

we know that trash is getting picked up, sure..but is any of this mail actually getting through? I really don't picture a mailman driving up to drop half a ton of mail each day

# ? Jan 11, 2016 00:40

Crain: Jun 27, 2007; I had a beer once with Stephen Miller and now I like him.

I also tried to ban someone from a Discord for pointing out what an unrelenting shithead I am! I'm even dumb enough to think it worked!

Ninkobei posted:

we know that trash is getting picked up, sure..but is any of this mail actually getting through? I really don't picture a mailman driving up to drop half a ton of mail each day

Most likely since the place was closed when this all started they had a stop on mail deliveries and its collecting at the post office. What has been sent was delivered by supporters (and PETA since they decided to hand deliver vegan jerky. For publicity reasons).

# ? Jan 11, 2016 01:02

Vienna Circlejerk: Jan 28, 2003; The great science sausage party!

Crain posted:

Most likely since the place was closed when this all started they had a stop on mail deliveries and its collecting at the post office.

Another constitutional right denied! :freep:

# ? Jan 11, 2016 01:14

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN: Jun 26, 2009

Xand_Man posted:

There are women in the compound. They brought wives and girlfriends.

I wonder how much of the FBI's response has been dictated by the political climate? Since "Let's investigate the records of groups that are explicitly against paying taxes" became a justification for cutting funding to the IRS, it's understandable that the FBI might be feeling a little gunshy if they perceive that these guys have political allies.

A large part, I'm sure. There's an election coming up and the last thing Obama wants is to give republicans easy ammo. At the moment these guys are a joke and everybody has distanced themselves but, if given the chance to portray them as victims of Obama's stormtroopers, they'll become the good guys.

SMILLENNIALSMILLEN fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Jan 11, 2016

# ? Jan 11, 2016 01:31

General_Disturbed: Apr 7, 2005; Ride the 8=====D

The news media has mostly become lukewarm about the whole thing as the news cycle rolls on. You'll see them putting up an article about how the militia is begging for supplies, days late. That picture of stuff they are asking for was being passed around a couple of days ago and places like CNN are only just now writing on it. This seems like a good thing since in the national attention they are essentially being treated like jokes.

In actual reality land, they continue to get more supporters showing up every day. A lot of the militias that were condemning them early on are showing up now, heavily armed. They've been going around to the FBI staging area and the sheriff's staging area with their assault rifles doing shows of force, and making any law enforcement they see take their stupid pamplets that have their list of grievances on them.

There is a video up earlier from today where they showed up at the FBI area. The FBI deployed defensively but all they did was talk and then the militia left. The FBI seems to have a really good handle on absolutely doing nothing to provoke these people. I think at this point they've seriously dropped the ball. In the national attention these guys are looking like lunatics, but as far as militias are concerned, this is an -utter- absolute victory. They're already talking about doing it in other places. The government has clearly shown them it has no handle on this situation whatsoever and the militias know it. Every single thing that is happening out there, I've seen the militia types and supporters become more and more energized over it. In their minds they've absolutely won, and this is a winning system to get what they want.

# ? Jan 11, 2016 02:37

kartikeya: Mar 17, 2009

General_Disturbed posted:

The news media has mostly become lukewarm about the whole thing as the news cycle rolls on. You'll see them putting up an article about how the militia is begging for supplies, days late. That picture of stuff they are asking for was being passed around a couple of days ago and places like CNN are only just now writing on it. This seems like a good thing since in the national attention they are essentially being treated like jokes.

In actual reality land, they continue to get more supporters showing up every day. A lot of the militias that were condemning them early on are showing up now, heavily armed. They've been going around to the FBI staging area and the sheriff's staging area with their assault rifles doing shows of force, and making any law enforcement they see take their stupid pamplets that have their list of grievances on them.

There is a video up earlier from today where they showed up at the FBI area. The FBI deployed defensively but all they did was talk and then the militia left. The FBI seems to have a really good handle on absolutely doing nothing to provoke these people. I think at this point they've seriously dropped the ball. In the national attention these guys are looking like lunatics, but as far as militias are concerned, this is an -utter- absolute victory. They're already talking about doing it in other places. The government has clearly shown them it has no handle on this situation whatsoever and the militias know it. Every single thing that is happening out there, I've seen the militia types and supporters become more and more energized over it. In their minds they've absolutely won, and this is a winning system to get what they want.

But it's totally a peaceful protest, really!

# ? Jan 11, 2016 03:03

Slow News Day: Jul 4, 2007

General_Disturbed posted:

In actual reality land, they continue to get more supporters showing up every day. A lot of the militias that were condemning them early on are showing up now, heavily armed. They've been going around to the FBI staging area and the sheriff's staging area with their assault rifles doing shows of force, and making any law enforcement they see take their stupid pamplets that have their list of grievances on them.

There is a video up earlier from today where they showed up at the FBI area. The FBI deployed defensively but all they did was talk and then the militia left. The FBI seems to have a really good handle on absolutely doing nothing to provoke these people. I think at this point they've seriously dropped the ball. In the national attention these guys are looking like lunatics, but as far as militias are concerned, this is an -utter- absolute victory. They're already talking about doing it in other places. The government has clearly shown them it has no handle on this situation whatsoever and the militias know it. Every single thing that is happening out there, I've seen the militia types and supporters become more and more energized over it. In their minds they've absolutely won, and this is a winning system to get what they want.

Awesome! Hopefully it becomes a much bigger thing than it currently is and we have something other than the presidential race to watch and laugh at. :munch:

# ? Jan 11, 2016 03:06

highme: May 25, 2001; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Ninkobei posted:

we know that trash is getting picked up, sure..but is any of this mail actually getting through? I really don't picture a mailman driving up to drop half a ton of mail each day

The address I saw was "General Delivery Burns Post Office", so it sits there waiting for whoever it was addressed to to pick it up.

# ? Jan 11, 2016 03:09

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# ? May 23, 2024 18:11

BaurusJA: Nov 13, 2015; It's cruel...it's playful... I like it

enraged_camel posted:

Awesome! Hopefully it becomes a much bigger thing than it currently is and we have something other than the presidential race to watch and laugh at.

I am starting to think that the FBI should let them all congregate at that location and then just build walls around it like someone here suggested. Turn it into a prison, serves these assholes right.

# ? Jan 11, 2016 03:11

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Not these assholes again: Bundy sons, Militia seize federal building

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