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Irony Be My Shield posted:I don't think you could realistically make either of those mistakes on MTGO.
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Jan 11, 2016 03:07
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You'd have to pick the discard mode and then target yourself. For the naming you'd see Borborygmos and Borborygmos Enraged on the list, so you wouldn't be punished for not knowing about an obscure bad card from Guildpact.
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Jan 11, 2016 03:08
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My esper charm hits all the players in the room 
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Jan 11, 2016 03:09
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Irony Be My Shield posted:You'd have to pick the discard mode and then target yourself. For the naming you'd see Borborygmos and Borborygmos Enraged on the list, so you wouldn't be punished for not knowing about an obscure bad card from Guildpact. yes, and people do that all the time. like its pretty common cause people go to fast and dont slow down to read the cards modes, or what they're naming. like for real why is this so hard for you to understand?
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Jan 11, 2016 03:12
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OK people can just outright make moves that are always going to be bad for themselves if they're dumb, but I think there is a difference here. 99% of the time if you truncate the card you are trying to name with Pithing Needle you will not be punished. The only reason he was punished here was because there happens to be a card named exactly "Borborygmos". I don't think they handled it wrongly at the tournament but it's unfortunate that a player punted not due to making an incorrect decision about gameplay but instead because they didn't know about some weird old card.
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Jan 11, 2016 03:18
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Fatespinner was not designed with limited in mind.
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Jan 11, 2016 03:18
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The guy could have literally said "That one big green red guy from the first Ravnica block" and that would have been completely acceptable, lmao at him for saying the one single word which didn't make it uniquely identifiable. You guys are one step away from  a guy didn't let me take back some bad blocks what a scumbag try hard
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Jan 11, 2016 03:21
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Count Bleck posted:Fatespinner was not designed with limited in mind. I suppose this is an improvement to the bug where Fatespinner was the best card in all formats because its trigger would cause the choosing player to time out, but not by a lot.
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Jan 11, 2016 03:21
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Ciprian Maricon posted:The guy could have literally said "That one big green red guy from the first Ravnica block" and that would have been completely acceptable, lmao at him for saying the one single word which didn't make it uniquely identifiable. A player who started playing in the year 2008 or later would have a very real chance of not knowing there was a card named Borborygmos in the first place to name accidentally. A player should not be punished for not knowing every card in the history of the card game Magic: The Gathering.
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Jan 11, 2016 03:29
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Count Bleck posted:Fatespinner was not designed with limited in mind. Are you kidding? Fatespinner used to bug the game out, causing your opponent to time out or concede. This is NOTHING
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Jan 11, 2016 03:29
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rabidsquid posted:Are you kidding? Fatespinner used to bug the game out, causing your opponent to time out or concede. This is NOTHING Myriad Truths posted:I suppose this is an improvement to the bug where Fatespinner was the best card in all formats because its trigger would cause the choosing player to time out, but not by a lot. So what you're saying is that even when it didn't work correctly, it was backbreaking.
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Jan 11, 2016 03:32
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Ciprian Maricon posted:The guy could have literally said "That one big green red guy from the first Ravnica block" and that would have been completely acceptable, lmao at him for saying the one single word which didn't make it uniquely identifiable. Well the problem was he named the big green red guy from the first Ravnica block instead of the big green red guy from the second Ravnica block. He probably didn't even know the card existed, and it was really obvious that's not what he was trying to name. How many other cards in the game would actually have this issue? The only other one I can think of is like, Urborg, which funnily enough actually does have an activated ability that you can Needle, vs. Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth.
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Jan 11, 2016 03:32
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Say it with me. Borb-ori-guh-mos. E: Enraged, of course. Count Bleck fucked around with this message at 03:37 on Jan 11, 2016 |
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Jan 11, 2016 03:35
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Count Bleck posted:Say it with me. Bor-bor-ig-mos
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Jan 11, 2016 03:37
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Angry Grimace posted:Bor-bor-ig-mos This is correct
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Jan 11, 2016 03:38
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GonSmithe posted:This is correct gently caress!  Edit: Actually that does sound better. I concede.
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Jan 11, 2016 03:39
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My friends and I say Borb-O-Guy-Mos.
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Jan 11, 2016 03:42
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It's pretty easy once you realize the g is pronounced the same way as in gif
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Jan 11, 2016 03:44
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lottery of babylongos enraged
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Jan 11, 2016 03:45
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bobo-guy the mad landslammer
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Jan 11, 2016 03:50
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suicidesteve posted:He probably didn't even know the card existed, and it was really obvious that's not what he was trying to name. This, for real. Did the rules judge really think he was trying to name a card knowing his choice would negate his card's effect?
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Jan 11, 2016 03:50
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Mr. Jive posted:This, for real. Did the rules judge really think he was trying to name a card knowing his choice would negate his card's effect? If a judge sees you're about to make a misplay, do they stop you?
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Jan 11, 2016 03:52
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Actually you have a good point there, but I feel like something just broke inside my brain
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Jan 11, 2016 03:55
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He also asked the judge specifically before trying that so its not like they weren't aware this was going to happen.
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Jan 11, 2016 03:56
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suicidesteve posted:Well the problem was he named the big green red guy from the first Ravnica block instead of the big green red guy from the second Ravnica block. He probably didn't even know the card existed, and it was really obvious that's not what he was trying to name. How many other cards in the game would actually have this issue? The only other one I can think of is like, Urborg, which funnily enough actually does have an activated ability that you can Needle, vs. Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. Let's be honest the rule is ridiculously flexible. All you have to do is make it so the card you named can't be confused with another one and in this case it can be. "Oh well I mean you could tell what he meant" isn't a sound basis on which to make a rule. The rule is so permissive that if you can just describe the art on it well enough, then that's acceptable. TheKingofSprings posted:A player should not be punished for not knowing every card in the history of the card game Magic: The Gathering. lmao, you could get away with as little as "that guy in your list who lets you chucks lands for damage or whatever" What an unreasonable burden, having to muster some way to identify the card, like literally anyway at all that you can think of will probably work, so long as it can't be confused with another card, how unfair. Ciprian Maricon fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Jan 11, 2016 |
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Jan 11, 2016 03:56
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Ciprian Maricon posted:Let's be honest the rule is ridiculously flexible. All you have to do is make it so the card you named can't be confused with another one and in this case it can be. "Oh well I mean you could tell what he meant" isn't a sound basis on which to make a rule. The rule is so permissive that if you can just describe the art on it well enough, then that's acceptable. It's sort of like when students get mad at having points taken off for printing an assignment in Arial instead of Times New Roman or whatever the style guide specified. Yes, it's a tiny thing, but by virtue of being a tiny thing, it's effectively zero additional effort to make sure you do it correctly.
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Jan 11, 2016 04:01
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Need a clarification from impartial people/judges for something that happened to a friend at the standard challenge in Charlotte today: Standard challenge is a timed event. A friend of mine is 2-0 and his third match has been going on for a while, I started watching after my draft was over, near the end of their game 2. 10-15 minutes into their game 3, the judge who had been giving out pairings for that event walked over and asked what turn people were on since time had already passed. Quite a few people spectating, and my friend playing, said they didn't realize time had been called. The judge's response was that he had walked by about 8 minutes prior and said it would be time for the round in 5 minutes. There were no visible timers, he didn't ask anyone to set a timer, and only a handful of people apparently heard him say it. Long story short, my friend ended up losing that match when he could've tied because his opponent basically got an extra 3-5 minutes to play. He ended up going 3-1 with that loss, but the difference between 3-1 and 3-0-1 is about 12 packs so he was pretty irritated by it. Question is: is maintaining the clock and calling time the judge's responsibility or the players? I tried asking an L2 about it, and he just shrugged and said that there's no way to tell what really happened and that it was the players job to keep up with time, which doesn't seem fair since there was no visible clock set aside for that event.
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Jan 11, 2016 04:02
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Ciprian Maricon posted:Let's be honest the rule is ridiculously flexible. All you have to do is make it so the card you named can't be confused with another one and in this case it can be. "Oh well I mean you could tell what he meant" isn't a sound basis on which to make a rule. The rule is so permissive that if you can just describe the art on it well enough, then that's acceptable.
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Jan 11, 2016 04:05
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It sucks, and I feel for the guy, but the alternative is making dumb rules where you can put down "Jace" and then hold a trial by combat to see if you meant the one your opponent played or the one he sided out of or whatever. Thems the breaks.Fingers McLongDong posted:Question is: is maintaining the clock and calling time the judge's responsibility or the players? I tried asking an L2 about it, and he just shrugged and said that there's no way to tell what really happened and that it was the players job to keep up with time, which doesn't seem fair since there was no visible clock set aside for that event. Sounds like the Judge made a solid common sense call, the players didn't hear time called, so as soon as he or she noticed they put the players on turns. I'd back up that call if I was HJ. Your friend sounds unnecessarily salty. Like what did he expect the Judge to do? Immediately end the match in direct violation of the MTR regarding match structure? That's not really reasonable, if timing was so important to your friend he could have asked at anytime what the time left in the round was.
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Jan 11, 2016 04:16
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The reason people are pissed off is because literally 100% of the people who understand what happened know he was attempting to name Borborygmos Enraged because there isn't even a shred of ambiguity.
Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Jan 11, 2016 |
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Jan 11, 2016 04:22
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^^^literally this I like how many people here are saying you have to give just information for your opponent to know which card they are saying when literally all of us would know exactly what card in our deck they were saying if they just said borborygmos.
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Jan 11, 2016 04:23
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The whole argument "well you gotta do anything to win" is one of those eye-rolling arguments where it doesn't actually extend to everything despite everyone acting like it does, e.g. monitoring what cards opposing teams are ordering (which isn't actually illegal) and doesn't actually apply to lots of things despite people saying it does. The George Brett incident is notable because its an outlier, the same way you don't see people arguing that guys don't run up the first base line in the runners box even though technically you are out if you run outside of it and there's a loving lot more money on the line. Golfers literally call penalties on themselves. I mean, if you really want to win by grinding out those type of advantages then at least have the decency to not also claim the moral high ground and just admit you don't give a gently caress as long as you win. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Jan 11, 2016 |
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Jan 11, 2016 04:28
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Ciprian Maricon posted:It sucks, and I feel for the guy, but the alternative is making dumb rules where you can put down "Jace" and then hold a trial by combat to see if you meant the one your opponent played or the one he sided out of or whatever. Thems the breaks. No, it was more that the judge said he came by in X minutes before and said "it'll be time in 5 minutes," which the majority of people, including myself standing there spectating, didn't hear. Giving a generic amount of time and then not asking anyone to set a timer or actually announce when time is actually up seems really loose and not exactly professional for a rules-enforced event. Were people supposed to whip out phones and set a countdown timer? Ask a spectator to keep up with time? "Time for the round" was never actually called and I've never known it to be a player's responsibility to set up a clock for their match. I would've normally just told him "well maybe you just didn't hear it" except I was standing there and had there was a conversation going amongst other spectators and players who had finished about how no one knew time was up and time had never been called. Obviously it can't be taken back, but something beyond a shrug would've been a little more professional, even just "we'll try to keep up with it better next round." Edit: just to clarify I didn't get to ask the HJ about it, he was pretty busy so I asked the nearest L2.
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Jan 11, 2016 04:33
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Ok so I went 10-5 at the Charlotte open and finished in 36th place running fish. Just thought I would write up a bit of a tournament report and post it for posterity. I took some notes to help with this. Anyhow, I'll start by posting the list that I ended up running and giving a breakdown of the matches. My memory isn't perfect so if mess anything up, or if I am fuzzy on the details, please forgive me. Anyhow, without further ado, my decklist and reportFish Decklist posted:creatures A fairly stock list, with the original idea coming from youtuber Nikachu and a few tweaks of my own. Mostly, I switched out the Techtonic Edges for Ghost Quarters in anticipation of the Amulet Bloom Matchup and Tron Match up. The big innovation in this list though is the complete abandonment of the affinity match up. It is horrible and wasting sideboard slots on a nigh-unwinable match up instead of shoring up other marginal matchups seems like a poor idea to me. Match 1-Elves Anyhow, I started the day with one of Merfolk's worst matchups Elves. Luckily, my opponent, who was on the play, kept a poor hand without any 1 drop accelerants and died to me going vial into cursecatcher + lord, into Reejerey + Master of the Pearl Trident. Second game my opponent elf comboed out and attacked me for 54 on turn 4. Game three I was able to kill his accelerants with dismembers and cut him off green mana entirely before Master of Waves sealed the game. So far 1-0 Match 2-U/R Twin I was fairly happy to see my opponent was on twin. Aether Vial + Lords and Disruption made quick work of the opponent. Not much of a game. Record 2-0 Match 3-Naya Zoo/Burn This is a matchup that is in our favor, but far from a free win. It runs Kird Apes + Nacatls + Eidiolon of the Great Revel, Atarka's Command, Boros Charm, and MOnastery Swift Spear. It is a fast viscious deck, but judicious use of Aether Vial and Harbinger of Tides and Tidebinder Mages + Dispel out of the board allowed me to take the deck without a loss. Record 3-0 Match 4 Shaheen Soorani on U/R Delver Shaheen and I were in the backup feature match area. He was a pretty nice and conversational guy the entire game. As his deck had multiple maindeck blood moons, it was poorly positioned for the matchup, and so I took it 2-0 on the back of Aether Vial and Lord Shenanigans. Record 4-0 Match 5 Cedric Phillips on U/R Twin Much like Shaheen Soorani he was nice and conversational, and I quite enjoyed my game against him. I feel obligated to point out at one point I miscalculated the damage from my attack, which was lethal, and rather than playing it off, as some scummy players might, Cedric was very stand up about the whole thing and scooped to the damage. Again, this is modern, and matchups are often more important than anything else, and Merfolk tends to be a poor match up for twin so I took it 2-0. Record 5-0 Round 6 Brian Huffman (eventual SCG Charlotte open Grand Prize winner) on Jund I can't remember if it was 2-1 or 2-0 but Brian got me. I remember our games were tight, and that he was a very friendly and tight player. I enjoyed our match, though the first taste of defeat of the day was quite bitter, however, as all I needed to do was go 7-2 to make day 2 I felt comfortable and confident. That was about to change. Record 5-1 Round 7 Scapeshift I cannot remember the players name, but I was entirely routed. My opponent won both games on the back of multiple sweepers with counter backup. Not much I could do and when it came down to the inevitable counter war over scapeshift in the second game, my opponent was more than able to mount a defense with his counter magic. Record 5-2 Round 8 Dredgevine My opponent was obviously tired, so I think he may have misplayed or misboarded, but it was a rout. His creatures do not match up well, or are fast enough to handle the Merfolk assault. THough in game 2 he had brought in sideboarded murderous cuts, it was not enough to handle the onslaught of lords and bounce effects. Fish took the game 2-0 and kept my day 2 dreams alive. Record 6-2 Round 9 G/W Hatebears This is a horrible matchup for my opponent, who seemed to be a very stiff unfriendly sort, however, I could have just been the pressure of win or die we were both under that made him that way. Game 1, his pressure cannot keep up with what merfolk can assemble and my opponent died to Aether Vial cheating in Lords over the course of a few turns. Game 2, Spreading seas was able to cut him off of his only source of colored mana, forcing my opponent to double ghost quarter himself in order to attempt to cast Dromoka's Command, so he could survive my attack. However a timely cursecatcher sacrifice rendered his effort useless and I took the game from my noticably salty opponent. Record 7-2 AND I MADE DAY 2, HUZZAH Honestly, I was so friggin happy I could barely contain myself. Me and the guys from my shop went out to a delicious Ramen place name Futabuta (sic) and covered the bill for dinner for me and Serano, the other player from our shop who made day 2. It was a glorious night, and after eating my fill of delicious pork-belly ramen, I went back to my friend Conner's house to slepp in preparation for day 2. Round 10 Junk Junk is an interesting matchup. It can be difficult to win, but I think it is more favorable than JUnd since Jund has maindeck Kolaghan's command. Anyway my opponent didn't seem to know how to handle the fish game 1. Game 2 we both mulliganed down to 5 and he was able to win by attacking with to 3/4 Tarmogoyfs before I was able to cast a spell. Game three I was in command the entire time, using Spreading Seas to deny my oppoent the mana he needed and attacking with scaly beaters. Though he eventually succumbed, he fought to the end, and that certainly counts for something. Record 8-2 Round 11 U/R Twin A few bad draws and mulliganing to 5 both games and my opponent running a maindeck Keranos, God of Storms did quick work against me, and was able to take the match uncontested. Record 8-3 Round 12 Naya Blitz Very Similar to my Round 3 opponent, Naya creatures backed up by Boros Charm and Atarka's command, I died on turn 3 2 games in a row.  Record 8-4 Round 13 Merfolk (MIRROR MATCH FRENZY) Somewhat dejected by getting kicked out of top 8 contention, I decided to redouble my efforts and try and play good, solid, interactive magic and do as well as I could. Game 1, though he was on the play, my 2 main deck dismember's allowed me to disrupt my oppoent's merfolk synergies well enough to take game 1. Game 2 I drew 2 lands and every reejerey and kira in the deck. Not much of a game. Game 3 I succeeded in the most skill intensive part of the merfolk mirror, not drawing island, but still being able to tap for blue. Wanderwine Hubs and company proved there worth in this game, as my fishy force was able to block my opponent, but I was able to attack unmolested. I took the match 2-1 Record 9-4 Round 14 Naya Company Naya Company is a much better matchup than Naya Blitz. They are trying to run undercosted large creatures, and use COCO to get them in and gain card advantage. Game 1, I proved that blue has the biggest creatures, and my fish took the game. Game 2 a sideboard Elspeth made my opponent's Nacatl a flying Nacatl, which is a problem for me and took the game. Game 3, Spreading Seas + Dispel denied my opponent both mana and COCO allowing my fish to take the day unblocked. I won the match 2-1 Record 10-4 Round 15 R/G Tron R/G Tron is not a good matchup; even though you have maindeck spreading seas, tron can just go completely over everything you are attempting to do. I was able to take game 1 by dropping 4 lords before my opponent could assemble Tron and Spell Piercing an Oblivion Stone so that my opponent would not be to sweep them that turn, allowing me to crack in for lethal. Games 2 and 3 followed a predictable pattern of Tron piece into Rending Volley off Chromatic Star/Sphere into Pyroclasm off Chromatic Star/Sphere into Wurmcoil Engines. And so I ended the day with a loss to R/G Tron. Final Record 10-5, 36th place Honestly I had a ball, and though I wish I did better, this just reinvigorates me to try harder and do better at my next open. I think it fitting to say I could not have done as well as I did without a lot of help. I'm gonna plug my FLGS here as they were immensely helpful, and ever since it changed management, I really like the store, Lucky's Card Shop is a great place for Magic in Greensboro. I am working on a few tweaks to the board and cannot wait to get back in the game. See y'all at SCG Regional Championships. Madmarker fucked around with this message at 04:43 on Jan 11, 2016 |
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Jan 11, 2016 04:41
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Grinding out every possible advantage is one way to play, or you could be like that awesome Japanese pro who kept reminding his opponents to pay their pacts because he didn't want to win a game on a rules mistake
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Jan 11, 2016 04:42
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Jan 11, 2016 04:42
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rabidsquid posted:Grinding out every possible advantage is one way to play, or you could be like that awesome Japanese pro who kept reminding his opponents to pay their pacts because he didn't want to win a game on a rules mistake This is how I play because I legitimately feel worse after winning a match b/c of stuff like that than I do after losing (so i just don't play at competitive rel very often)
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Jan 11, 2016 04:45
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rabidsquid posted:Grinding out every possible advantage is one way to play, or you could be like that awesome Japanese pro who kept reminding his opponents to pay their pacts because he didn't want to win a game on a rules mistake Or you could do both. Though the latter of obviously very admirable.
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Jan 11, 2016 04:49
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Holy gently caress
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Jan 11, 2016 04:54
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rabidsquid posted:Grinding out every possible advantage is one way to play, or you could be like that awesome Japanese pro who kept reminding his opponents to pay their pacts because he didn't want to win a game on a rules mistake I just think there's a tangible difference between missing a Pact trigger and naming Borborygmos Enraged specifically because one of them is a trigger on the card and one of them requires you to know that a card named Borborygmos was printed in Guildpact despite the fact that it is 100% irrelevant and everyone knew he meant Borborygmos Enraged.
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Jan 11, 2016 04:56
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