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Waffles Inc. posted:I promise you I am not trolling. Liking the prequels isn't. Producing overwrought analysis founded, mostly, on thin air, and then claiming that that's why you like the prequels, because you're just smarter than everyone else and can see all these things invisible to the plebs, definitely is trolling. It's a gimmick, a bit. Like Fishmech's bit is to be pedantic while Computer Parts' bit is to be a contrarian poo poo in every thread. So, you may not be trolling but others clearly are, at least to the initiated. I do agree with some of what SMG and Cnut say but a lot of it is just bait.
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Jan 11, 2016 14:48
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Maybe talk about the movies and worry less about who's trolling and Internet honor .
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Jan 11, 2016 14:50
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Noam Chomsky posted:Liking the prequels isn't. Producing overwrought analysis founded, mostly, on thin air, and then claiming that that's why you like the prequels, because you're just smarter than everyone else and can see all these things invisible to the plebs, definitely is trolling. It's a gimmick, a bit. Like Fishmech's bit is to be pedantic while Computer Parts' bit is to be a contrarian poo poo in every thread. If only every1 was as smart as u are and could see thru the bullshit
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Jan 11, 2016 14:50
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Noam Chomsky posted:Liking the prequels isn't. Producing overwrought analysis founded, mostly, on thin air, and then claiming that that's why you like the prequels, because you're just smarter than everyone else and can see all these things invisible to the plebs, definitely is trolling. It's a gimmick, a bit. Like Fishmech's bit is to be pedantic while Computer Parts' bit is to be a contrarian poo poo in every thread. Who said anyone else is plebs? I don't give a gently caress if you don't think the analysis is worth a drat. I think it makes the films interesting and good. Analysis of films isn't trolling
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Jan 11, 2016 14:59
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euphronius posted:Maybe talk about the movies and worry less about who's trolling and Internet honor . Right back at you. 
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Jan 11, 2016 15:01
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Waffles Inc. posted:Who said anyone else is plebs? I don't give a gently caress if you don't think the analysis is worth a drat. I think it makes the films interesting and good. If you need the deep thoughts of SA's very own Zizek to make films interesting and good then it stands to reason they just aren't. They are enjoyable at least half the time, though.
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Jan 11, 2016 15:03
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Noam Chomsky posted:Right back at you. That doesn't make any sense.
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Jan 11, 2016 15:14
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Shut up, all of you, and discuss if this is a hint, or a red herring: General Hux: "Perhaps the Supreme Leader should consider a clone army."
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Jan 11, 2016 15:16
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Red posted:Shut up, all of you, and disucss if this is a hint, or a red herring: Sounds like a callback to the prequels, nothing more. Also maybe a clue for people who saw the PT and thought the stormtroopers of the OT were still clones?
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Jan 11, 2016 15:18
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Red posted:Shut up, all of you, and discuss if this is a hint, or a red herring: I thought Ren said that. Also the storm troopers basically are clones and the clones in the pt committed "treason" as well.
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Jan 11, 2016 15:19
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Yeah, the context of the rest of the conversation is "your 'selected from birth and well trained' trooper FN-2187 just hosed up royally...how competent are you again?"
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Jan 11, 2016 15:20
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Noam Chomsky posted:If you need the deep thoughts of SA's very own Zizek to make films interesting and good then it stands to reason they just aren't. In your opinion. Also, why shouldn't deeper analysis make a film interesting? Who is being harmed if someone's perspective on a movie is changed by learning about a particular reading? Is there some sort of harm done to the greater good or some reason you're all riled up about it?
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Jan 11, 2016 15:27
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Serf posted:Sounds like a callback to the prequels, nothing more. Also maybe a clue for people who saw the PT and thought the stormtroopers of the OT were still clones? We might see cloning in the new trilogy if enough of the troopers were wiped out at the destruction of Starkiller.
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Jan 11, 2016 15:28
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Waffles Inc. posted:In your opinion. Yes, of course it's my opinion. "In your opinion" and "Well, that's your opinion" are not magic words that can be used to dispel any argument. I don't really care either way. I guess I just believe film should be enjoyable and entertaining on their own and not need analysis to make them so. Analysis should add to an already entertaining and engaging film and not be required to make it so. As I said, I enjoy the PT, probably about 75% of the total runtime but even the parts I enjoy would've been better with better casting, better writing, and better acting. However, I don't believe any analysis can make them better films. Also, to be fair, the OT has a lot of problems as well, but their sins are more forgivable given the time in which they were produced and our nostalgia papers over their flaws.
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Jan 11, 2016 15:32
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You make it seem like analysis is some kind of terrible, onerous task. In reality it's just making explicit the inferences and connections you make anyway when viewing a film.
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Jan 11, 2016 15:42
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euphronius posted:I thought Ren said that. You're right, it was Ren. The more I think about it, the more I think it was just a dig at Hux, and a kick to the PT's balls. I also noticed that at Maz Kanata's place, one of the flags is the Mandalorian insignia.
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Jan 11, 2016 15:42
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Red posted:You're right, it was Ren. How is it a kick to the PT's balls? The clone side won, destroying the Separatists and the Jedi.
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Jan 11, 2016 15:46
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Noam Chomsky posted:Liking the prequels isn't. Producing overwrought analysis founded, mostly, on thin air, and then claiming that that's why you like the prequels, because you're just smarter than everyone else and can see all these things invisible to the plebs, definitely is trolling. It's a gimmick, a bit. Like Fishmech's bit is to be pedantic while Computer Parts' bit is to be a contrarian poo poo in every thread. Most of what Cnut says is based on what's there on screen or official behind-the-scenes stuff like scripts and interviews. SMG frames everything in terms that many critical theorists/cultural critics do, which I often disagree with as well, but it is a school of thought. Simply dismissing their posts as "bait" because you think the movies are shallow is totally pointless, because one of them bases their arguments on the facts about the movie for the most part, while the other is looking at Star Wars through a lens with which those of his ilk look at everything. Why would the prequels be exempt from either of these things? Again, I say that as someone who thinks a lot of cultural criticism is a stretch. But it SMG is following a methodology that many do. Red posted:You're right, it was Ren. How is "A clone army would be more effective than your group of villains" a dig at the prequels? People in this thread have commented on how JJ Abrams seems terrified of being perceived as bashing George Lucas in any way. Beeez fucked around with this message at 15:50 on Jan 11, 2016 |
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Jan 11, 2016 15:48
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homullus posted:How is it a kick to the PT's balls? The clone side won, destroying the Separatists and the Jedi. It's a comment with a derisive tone, with Ren implying that clones, with a shorter shelf life and high cost, would be better than the current FO troops.
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Jan 11, 2016 15:49
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I could sort of see what people are talking about with SMG's posts, even if they themselves post nothing of worth. But to act like Cnut is trying to rile people up when he is simply talking about the films using the visual language of the films is insane.
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Jan 11, 2016 15:53
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I could sort of see what people are talking about with SMG's posts, even if they themselves post nothing of worth. But to act like Cnut is trying to rile people up when he is simply talking about the films using the visual language of the films is insane. Yeah, you said it more simply. I'm not a huge fan of a lot of SMG's interpretations either, but my point was that even he is talking about the films in a way that many talk about nearly everything.
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Jan 11, 2016 15:57
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Noam Chomsky posted:Yes, of course it's my opinion. "In your opinion" and "Well, that's your opinion" are not magic words that can be used to dispel any argument. This seems like a contradictory statement to me. You say that, overall, you enjoy the PT. You also say that "analysis" should "add to an already entertaining and engaging film". So what is the problem with analyzing the PT? These are films you enjoy after all, why not see if you can add to the enjoyment by delving a little bit deeper? It seems like the answer is that you just happen to not like the style of certain posters in this thread, and their particular form of analysis.
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Jan 11, 2016 15:58
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Noam Chomsky posted:I guess I just believe film should be enjoyable and entertaining on their own and not need analysis to make them so. Analysis should add to an already entertaining and engaging film and not be required to make it so. Maybe I'm not understanding you but, to make my position clear: I like the prequels and find them "enjoyable and entertaining on their own". Ergo, the sort of analysis that happens in this thread does add to "an already entertaining and engaging film" Your mistake is thinking that a lot of us like the prequels only because of some of the stuff in this thread, whereas I think the prequels are cool and good as a baseline opinion So what's your issue again?
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Jan 11, 2016 16:14
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Serf posted:Sounds like a callback to the prequels, nothing more. Also maybe a clue for people who saw the PT and thought the stormtroopers of the OT were still clones? That's how I saw it. I kinda thought the prequels implied the stormtroopers might all be clones (since there's not really anything in the OT to disprove it) so that line was a nice, quick way to explain why these ones aren't clones. Re: Anakin & Obi-wan being friends. IMO the clearest way to interpret their relationship is that Obi-wan felt sympathy for him based on events in The Phantom Menace, and became his mentor, and wanted to also be his friend, but had difficulty with being both at the same time. Like most children, Anakin had no issues with this at first because grownups are whatever. Eventually he becomes a teenager and resents the fact that Obi-wan still treats him as a kid, like every other teenager ever. We see hints of this relationship, but it is ultimately underdeveloped, because sometimes movies are just flawed that way. This is a problem not even remotely unique to the PT; I've seen it in tons of other movies. Pointing this out is in no way an attempt to say George Lucas is a talentless hack who has no business making movies. He just made a common mistake, relying too much on telling instead of showing. It's hard to pull this stuff off. That's why people get paid so much to do it.
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Jan 11, 2016 16:28
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OT stormtroopers are in fact all clones. They were redubbed by the guy who played Jango for the post AoTC special edition.
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Jan 11, 2016 16:31
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How cocky was jj where the first line of his new Star Wars movie was, "this will set things right."
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Jan 11, 2016 16:35
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greatn posted:OT stormtroopers are in fact all clones. They were redubbed by the guy who played Jango for the post AoTC special edition. I don't know if there's a joke I'm missing, but only Boba was redubbed. Which was kind of silly anyway, considering Boba doesn't even have his dad's accent when Jango dies.
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Jan 11, 2016 16:36
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That's not true. Pt clones Ot open enlist Nt brainwashed kids
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Jan 11, 2016 16:36
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Jan 11, 2016 16:45
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He's too much of a bitch in the show to carry such an arch It's plaugeis and it's awesome
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Jan 11, 2016 16:46
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:In that case, you are losing track of the discussion. Let's go back to the beginning: Your assertion is that the only truly ethical choice is to remain dedicated to a path of action, regardless of whether it benefits the actor or not? That the promise of reward automatically invalidates any ethical stand that actor might have had? Luke actively calls out to his father for help at the end of Return of the Jedi. If he wasn't hoping his father would save him, that Luke's faith in his father would be rewarded, then what was the point of that?
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Jan 11, 2016 16:46
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Noam Chomsky posted:As I said, I enjoy the PT, probably about 75% of the total runtime but even the parts I enjoy would've been better with better casting, better writing, and better acting. However, I don't believe any analysis can make them better films. Also, to be fair, the OT has a lot of problems as well, but their sins are more forgivable given the time in which they were produced and our nostalgia papers over their flaws. Whose casting would you change, exactly? And which actors would you replace them with? I thought the casting of the prequels was solid, even if the acting could certainly stand to be improved in places.
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Jan 11, 2016 16:50
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Instead of Natalie Portman get someone attractive
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Jan 11, 2016 16:51
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rear end Catchcum posted:Instead of Natalie Portman and Hayden Christensen get someone who can act and have chemistry with co-stars
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Jan 11, 2016 16:59
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Waffles Inc. posted:Maybe I'm not understanding you but, to make my position clear: I like the prequels and find them "enjoyable and entertaining on their own". Ergo, the sort of analysis that happens in this thread does add to "an already entertaining and engaging film" If you like the prequels on their own, for their own sake, and are not having some sort of relevatory experience thanks to a poster on a comedy forum, then why do you think I'm talking to you or about you? Huzanko fucked around with this message at 17:10 on Jan 11, 2016 |
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Jan 11, 2016 17:02
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Noam Chomsky posted:If you like the prequels on their own, for their own sake, and not having some sort of relevatory experience thanks to a poster on a comedy forum, then why do you think I'm talking to you or about you? uh you quoted me?
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Jan 11, 2016 17:03
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The way Natalie grasps her throat when Anakin force chokes her bothers me to no end. It's like getting double choked! 
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Jan 11, 2016 17:04
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Kajeesus posted:Whose casting would you change, exactly? And which actors would you replace them with? I thought the casting of the prequels was solid, even if the acting could certainly stand to be improved in places. I would recast adult Anakin with a more competent and experienced actor. I think Hayden was pretty OK in Jumper but his schtick seems to be wanna-be James Dean all the time and it doesn't work for me. He seems to just be a somewhat poor actor given that his career went nowhere. Maybe I'd recast kid Anakin but I think he did sufficiently well as a precious kid with a special destiny. I'd recast Padme since Portman just seemed like she didn't want to be there. She's great in just about every other role. But, it could've all just been the directing. Who knows? I kind of doubt it since other performances, given by better actors who actually wanted to be there, are kind of great.
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Jan 11, 2016 17:08
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Hayden Christiansen apparently chose to take a break from acting, I saw an article about it recently because I guess he's trying to make a comeback now. I thought he was pretty good, myself, he really captured that sense of Anakin being someone who wants to be this carefree rebel but is actually really concerned with trying to be subdued and reserved like Jedi are supposed to be, and failing.
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Jan 11, 2016 17:13
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He also imitated the mannerisms of James Earl Jones fairly well, you don't really notice unless you look for it. He's good in Life as a House which predated his appearing in Star Wars, and some other movie where he's a clone to be harvested for organs in a romantic relationship with another clone, can't remember the name of that one.
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Jan 11, 2016 17:18
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