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open24hours
Jan 7, 2001

Yeah that's pretty much my take on it. If the AFL want a drug testing regime they should organise their own. That drug testing in sport is treated as a public service like environmental monitoring or the regulation of the labour market seems strange to me.

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Anidav
Feb 25, 2010

ahhh fuck its the rats again

Slow News Day.

hooman
Oct 11, 2007

This guy seems legit.
Fun Shoe

Anidav posted:


Slow News Day.


What's the 13% Liberals? "Throw Bill Snorin into the sea"?

Anidav
Feb 25, 2010

ahhh fuck its the rats again
I have no idea, I just assume They all cross the streams on some issues that it'd be impossible to get 0% Liberal.

birdstrike
Oct 30, 2008

i;m gay

Anidav posted:


Bowie News Day.

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.

Laserface posted:

Who cares? its entertainment.

Yeah, the private sector can easily monitor itself without government red tape to get in the way.

Nibbles!
Jun 26, 2008

TRUMP TRUMP TRUMP

make australia great again as well please

open24hours posted:

Yeah that's pretty much my take on it. If the AFL want a drug testing regime they should organise their own. That drug testing in sport is treated as a public service like environmental monitoring or the regulation of the labour market seems strange to me.

Athletes generally have a small window for success and will happily destroy themselves for short-term gain whilst sporting bodies turn a blind eye.

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.
I know that sports and, well, people who post on the internet in discussions of politics are usually anathema and sport can be bundled off to one side as not a concern but drug use in sport is rampant from the top down with the fatalities, shortened lives, and everything in between adding up. There is little to no motivation amongst established sports to fight this, because they've spent years protecting them and they all have skeletons in their closets. It's akin to the Catholic Church - they've spent years covering it up, and the rabbit hole is too deep, they will do everything to protect themselves and their reputation - and to do that nothing bad must ever be reported.

open24hours
Jan 7, 2001

If it were reframed as an OH&S issue I might be more sympathetic to it, but as far as I can tell the main objective is to promote 'fairness'.

It also seems like a lot of the things professional athletes put themselves through would be banned if sport were treated like other jobs though.

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.

open24hours posted:

If it were reframed as an OH&S issue I might be more sympathetic to it, but as far as I can tell the main objective is to promote 'fairness'.

It also seems like a lot of the things professional athletes put themselves through would be banned if sport were treated like other jobs though.

You can argue that it being framed as a fairness problem makes no logical sense, but that's what sports and sports people are - they're meant to be icons. To stay on top you push yourself harder than everyone is going to go, and yes in individual sports its their own actions but it's in an environment where they have forever hosed their bodies (or been pressured to, or know that the system is rigged).

This goes far beyond simply sports, steroid use amongst high schoolers (and now, late primary schoolers) has risen gigantically in the past decade. This is new to Australia but been established in America for some time where the only way to get out of being poor was to be the strongest sportsman and maybe get lucky. It's an epidemic and treating it like private enterprise alone is missing the forest for the trees.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2004/05/06/1083635254464.html

http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/steroid-use-putting-body-conscious-teens-at-risk-20090919-fw48.html

http://www.abc.net.au/radionational/programs/lifematters/men-body-image-steroids/5306494

open24hours
Jan 7, 2001

I don't really see how that's an argument for government involvement in anti-doping. Could you realistically expect the problem of steroid use among teens to increase if drug testing in sport was done independently?

Some kids probably smoke weed because they want to be more like their hero Snoop Dogg, should the government be involved in anti-doping in music?

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

And the mercy seat is awaiting,
And I think my head is burning,
And in a way I'm yearning,
To be done with all this measuring of proof.
An eye for an eye
And a tooth for a tooth,
And anyway I told the truth,
And I'm not afraid to die.
That's a false equivalency - your original claim was to let AFL deal with it if they want to, which again is pretty clearly from the eyes of someone who doesn't "get" sport. I responded showing why this is just an extension of the logic that allows any field to become "why should the government interfere/regulate private industry". As for weed use/steroid use you do realise that a number of these teens are using these drugs to become the best - if an institution existed to mean that effort was wasted wouldn't it by logic reduce its usage? This isn't about appearances solely, it's about getting as strong as possible, as fast as possible, and having a heart attack by 35.

Also unlike weed steroids permanently change your physiology, yes even when you stop using them, they aren't a recreational high.

open24hours
Jan 7, 2001

Replace weed with heroin if it makes it easier.

There are a lot of things that I don't think the government should regulate, are you arguing that because the regulation of some things is necessary the regulation of all things is necessary?

For example, cheating in motorsport is endemic. Should we have a government department whose job it is to measure boost pressure and injector size in racing cars, or is it something better left to the race organisers?

open24hours fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Jan 12, 2016

asio
Nov 29, 2008

"Also Sprach Arnold Jacobs: A Developmental Guide for Brass Wind Musicians" refers to the mullet as an important tool for professional cornet playing and box smashing black and blood

open24hours posted:

Replace weed with heroin if it makes it easier.

There are a lot of things that I don't think the government should regulate, are you arguing that because the regulation of some things is necessary the regulation of all things is necessary?

For example, cheating in motorsport is endemic. Should we have a government department whose job it is to measure boost pressure and injector size in racing cars, or is it something better left to the race organisers?

All professional sport should be publicly owned. At a local government level sports teams can help the community in an actual meaningful way and the unhealthy advertising for gambling can be banned at the federal level.

Government dept with community consultation could then draw up standards wrt drug taking using input on how it can effect younger players. As always, the answer is public ownership.

BlitzkriegOfColour
Aug 22, 2010

Simplest answer, kill sports

hooman
Oct 11, 2007

This guy seems legit.
Fun Shoe

BlitzkriegOfColour posted:

Simplest answer, kill sports

Preferably while they sleep in their barracks.

Tokamak
Dec 22, 2004

open24hours posted:

Drugs in [professional] sport: an issue for the federal government (or state, for that matter)?

Considering that most sports played at the national level involve athletes that compete at the international level... Then it is a government issue. The government makes a large investment into the development of athletes and sporting organisations, so it only makes sense to hold professional athletes to international standards.

Besides if you are a sport that doesn't compete internationally like the AFL, do you really want to carry a reputation for not giving a poo poo about drug use? Take a look at professional wrestling if you want to plumb the depths of a sport with token drug testing.


- A 70 year old man

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
http://www.macleayargus.com.au/story/3656973/killed-stone-dead/?cs=1274

quote:

South Kempsey project scuttled but council manages to hang onto funding By Kieran Moran Jan. 11, 2016, 3:52 p.m.

A HIGHLY publicised and lauded $1.6 million community project earmarked for South Kempsey has been scrapped due to an Aboriginal land claim.

The ‘Our Place: South Kempsey Recreational Parklands Project’ was to be part of the South Kempsey ‘One Community, One Mob’ urban social plan and was a direct result of Kempsey Shire Council-driven consultation with South Kempsey residents in 2012. The project was to transform unused Crown Land between Queen and Vernon streets, South Kempsey, through the construction of a new playground, exercise trails, a walkway and landscape improvements. The parklands project was successful in receiving a $500,000 grant in 2013 under the former Labor Government’s Regional Development Australia Fund (RDAF) and was launched by then Lyne MP Rob Oakeshott in June 2013. The project was supported by Nationals Member for Cowper, Luke Hartsuyker, after the Coalition came to power in September 2013.

The clients for the project were Kempsey Shire Council, NSW Department of Family and Community Services, Australian Government Indigenous Coordination Council and the Kempsey Aboriginal Land Council. Mid Coast Communities, a not-for-profit, non-government incorporated association, who deliver a range of State and federal funded community development projects across the Mid North Coast, were set to deliver the $500,000 project to upgrade the existing 5.2ha recreational parklands, opposite the South Kempsey Community Centre.

However, in early 2015, the Macleay Argus understands that cracks started to appear in the project when it was realised the funding allocated was, in part, designated on land that was not under the control of Mid Coast Communities and no authorisations were in place to allow the project to proceed after the NSW Department of Primary Industry (DPI) and Crown Lands identified significant issues with Native Title and Aboriginal land claims. “DPI land records indicate the land is Crown Land and is the subject of an undetermined Aboriginal land claim,” a DPI spokesperson told the Argus. “In considering proposals for Crown Land, DPI Lands consider potential impacts on any native title rights or other interests that might exist.”

The project was to be on two separate Crown Land lots - but one of the lots is the subject of an Aboriginal land claim. The Argus has not been able to confirm whether the land claim was made before or after the announcement of the planned development. The Argus understands Crown Lands were able to overcome Kempsey Aboriginal Land Council issues through negotiation, but could not resolve the Native Title issue in the limited time available. As a result, Crown Lands could only give Mid Coast Communities the option of a licence over some of the project site, or to seek an extension of time from the funding body (RDAF), while they sought rights to proceed from the Federal Court. “The decision to accept the licence and proceed with the project is a matter for the proponent (Mid Coast Communities),” the DPI spokesperson said.

Due to only one licence being granted for only part of the land, Mid Coast Communities board of governance made the decision to terminate the RDAF funding contract. “Mid Coast Communities deeply regrets that the Our Place project was not able to go ahead due to the timing of approval for use of the land,” Mid Coast Communities CEO Ruth Thompson told the Argus. “We’d like to extend our gratitude to the wonderful people of South Kempsey for supporting us in our efforts to deliver the project. We acknowledge the community’s disappointment as, like us, they saw the project as a very valuable and worthwhile one.”

The Argus understands Kempsey Shire Council, after talks with the Federal Government, has managed to retain the $500,000 RDAF funding for a project within the Kempsey community, with an announcement expected in the next two weeks. Kempsey Aboriginal Land Council was invited to comment on the matter however none was available at the time of going to press.
I smell a rat. A National Party rat.

Rob Oakeshott was able to secure this project. It was designed to improve the community facilities in one of the predominantly black ghetto areas. Now apparently due to an indigenous land claim the money will have to spent in a white neighbourhood instead. You can not make this poo poo up. This is the same council who just pissed over a million dollars up the wall felating all of the scummy landlords in the main street as their solution to the town being bypassed by the Pacific Highway. :rolleyes:

open24hours
Jan 7, 2001

Tokamak posted:

Considering that most sports played at the national level involve athletes that compete at the international level... Then it is a government issue. The government makes a large investment into the development of athletes and sporting organisations, so it only makes sense to hold professional athletes to international standards.
Other questions worth asking are whether that investment is desirable, and if it should be the government's job to hold international athletes to account.

Tokamak posted:

Besides if you are a sport that doesn't compete internationally like the AFL, do you really want to carry a reputation for not giving a poo poo about drug use? Take a look at professional wrestling if you want to plumb the depths of a sport with token drug testing.
That's a question for the AFL. If they want to be seen to give a poo poo about drug testing then they're free to finance it.

BlitzkriegOfColour
Aug 22, 2010

I'm fairly certain I saw an AFL match between the USA and Japan in Gosford, though?

Recoome
Nov 9, 2013

Matter of fact, I'm salty now.
Worst company you can be possibly working for. The zionists are in league with the catholic leadership. That is why the Pope is so chummy with Islam. The Papacy invented Islam to do it's persecutions for it so it could be seen to keep it's hands clean.

The new world order is really the dark ages take two but this time they are getting rid of the whites because white Europeans broke the churches power before.

Recoome
Nov 9, 2013

Matter of fact, I'm salty now.
Obviously the source is UPF supporter, or person with schizophrenia/delusions

I would blow Dane Cook
Dec 26, 2008

Recoome posted:

Obviously the source is UPF supporter, or person with schizophrenia/delusions

please don't sign your posts.

Zenithe
Feb 25, 2013

Ask not to whom the Anidavatar belongs; it belongs to thee.

Recoome posted:

Worst company you can be possibly working for. The zionists are in league with the catholic leadership. That is why the Pope is so chummy with Islam. The Papacy invented Islam to do it's persecutions for it so it could be seen to keep it's hands clean.

The new world order is really the dark ages take two but this time they are getting rid of the whites because white Europeans broke the churches power before.

Is this part of white supremacist conspiracy bingo? Because I think we've all won.

Recoome
Nov 9, 2013

Matter of fact, I'm salty now.
https://www.facebook.com/murraylee.wilson?fref=ufi

Recoome
Nov 9, 2013

Matter of fact, I'm salty now.
This has to be a fake profile, it's all there it's just so bizarre.

hooman
Oct 11, 2007

This guy seems legit.
Fun Shoe
Up next in news that surprises nobody:

Guardian Au posted:

TPP trade deal will expand Australia's economy by less than 1%, World Bank reveals
Government continues to trumpet Trans-Pacific Partnership’s ‘enormous benefits’ despite analysis showing Australia’s growth will be worse than 11 of the other 12 countries in the deal

The federal government maintains the Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement will deliver “enormous benefits”, despite World Bank analysis showing Australia’s economy will grow by less than 1% as a result of the deal.

Australia’s increased growth is projected to be worse than 11 of the other 12 countries that signed the deal last year, according to the report on the global implications of the deal. Only the US fares worse.

By 2030, Australia’s gross domestic product could increase by just 0.7% as a result of the historic trade agreement. By contrast, Vietnam’s GDP could rise by 10%, and Malaysia’s by 8%, the World Bank finds.


The analysis concedes that the impact for developed nations like Australia and the US will be “modest” because “existing barriers to their trade ... are already low for the most traded commodities”.

“If ratified by all, the agreement could raise GDP in member countries by an average of 1.1% by 2030. It could also increase member countries’ trade by 11% by 2030, and represent a boost to regional trade growth,” the analysis said.

The trade minister, Andrew Robb, has defended the agreement, which has been described as one of the largest and most diverse trade deals in history.

“The historic Trans-Pacific Partnership agreement will deliver enormous benefits to Australia by enhancing our competitiveness, and promoting job creation, growth and higher living standards,” a spokeswoman for Robb told Guardian Australia.

“As well as slashing tariff barriers, it will drive Australia’s integration in the fast-growing Asia Pacific, and improve access to regional value chains by establishing one set of trading rules across 12 countries.

“The World Bank report demonstrates that all 12 TPP member countries – representing around 40% of global GDP – will experience economic growth and increased exports under the agreement.”

The Greens spokesman for trade, Peter Whish-Wilson, said the World Bank report was “evidence that the highly politicised TPP agreement will not deliver anything like the government’s overhyped spin”.

“Its economic impact will be negligible,” he said. “This latest World Bank analysis simply backs up all the evidence that has previously been presented regarding the lack of benefits to Australia.

“Andrew Robb has his head in the sand and no amount of credible evidence presented is going to shift him from his spin.”

Whish-Wilson argued the cost of controversial clauses which allowed multinational corporations to sue governments if they thought domestic laws harmed their investments had not been taken into account by the government.

The government is “in total denial about the future costs to Australia of Trojan horse investor-state dispute settlement provisions,” Whish-Wilson said.

Labor has vowed to examine the agreement.

“The trans-Pacific partnership is a major agreement involving some of Australia’s most important trading partners. Labor supports trade negotiations that promote growth and create jobs,” Labor’s acting spokesman on trade, Jim Chalmers, told Guardian Australia.

“The World Bank also notes that the agreement could be an important counterweight to the post-GFC global trade slowdown. Analysis by the World Bank and others will be considered by Labor as we consider the agreement.”


The 6,000-page deal was put online in October, but had previously been criticised for its secrecy. The wide-ranging deal includes changes to tariffs, drug patents and intellectual property.

The 12 countries to sign the deal are: Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Singapore, US and Vietnam.

Global economic giant China was excluded from the deal, as was South Korea.

Labor you're as worthless as the loving National Party.

fiery_valkyrie
Mar 26, 2003

I'm proud of you, Bender. Sure, you lost. You lost bad. But the important thing is I beat up someone who hurt my feelings in high school.

Recoome posted:

Obviously the source is UPF supporter, or person with schizophrenia/delusions

Why not both?

Birb Katter
Sep 18, 2010

BOATS STOPPED
CARBON TAX AXED
TURNBULL AS PM
LIBERALS WILL BE RE-ELECTED IN A LANDSLIDE

fiery_valkyrie posted:

Why not both?

Anidav
Feb 25, 2010

ahhh fuck its the rats again
US uses post WW2 cultural imperialism to gently caress over Asian nations + Australia.

hooman
Oct 11, 2007

This guy seems legit.
Fun Shoe

Anidav posted:

US uses post WW2 cultural imperialism to gently caress over Asian nations + Australia.

Business uses politics being compromised by capital to push rich nations to create exploitation opportunities in poor nations at the expense of the very rich nations which they are puppeting.

I would blow Dane Cook
Dec 26, 2008

Graic Gabtar
Dec 19, 2014

squat my posts

He must have never seen "Jaws: The Revenge".

Graic Gabtar fucked around with this message at 09:09 on Jan 12, 2016

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Keep trollin' trollin' trollin'.

Serrath
Mar 17, 2005

I have nothing of value to contribute
Ham Wrangler

Anidav posted:

US uses post WW2 cultural imperialism to gently caress over Asian nations + Australia.

I don't know much about the impact the TPP will have on countries that are not Australia; are there any good sources for this? The article suggests that GDP will rise by ~10% for most signing countries and I've always been a fan of international aid, is there an argument to be made that it's worthwhile for the beneficial effects the TPP will have on the economy of Malaysia, Vietnam etc or is it all poo poo (and if it's all poo poo, what kind of poo poo for the poorer nations?)

Any idea whether the report indicates that Canada is advantaged by the deal or are they getting comparable benefits to Australia/US?

You Am I
May 20, 2001

Me @ your poasting


I agree with Something Wonky, we should be complaining that the ABC isn't left enough, when they let right wing shrills like Berg and Anne Henderson on their site or news services so it looks like they are being "balanced"

open24hours
Jan 7, 2001

It's easy to blame the ABC, but the left is just terrible at getting its message out. Where's the IPA alternative?

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
When others laugh at how deluded the Socialist Alliance are and mock them most people nod sagely. Whereas the IPA gets quoted in all seriousness by ministers. See also Kate Carnell :rolleyes:

xPanda
Feb 6, 2003

Was that me or the door?

Cartoon posted:

When others laugh at how deluded the Socialist Alliance are and mock them most people nod sagely. Whereas the IPA gets quoted in all seriousness by ministers. See also Kate Carnell :rolleyes:

I can't believe how every time there's a media talking point about productivity she gets up there and directly contradicts herself sentence to sentence about penalty rates. It's bizarre.

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open24hours
Jan 7, 2001

They get quoted because they're much better at playing the game than anyone in the Socialist Alliance could ever hope to be.

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