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Discendo Vox posted:Arrests while the refuge is still occupied would be a bad idea, given its effect on the other armed people still onsite. Telling FedEx not to deliver may have been manageable, but it's not particularly meaningful. They don't know who slashed the tires, or they probably would have been arrested. Considering they aren't trying to arrest or impede anyone for B&E, stealing cars, sending death threats, destroying government property, or you know, outright sedition, I somewhat doubt they'd arrest someone in this group for slashing tires.
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Jan 13, 2016 03:43
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Discendo Vox posted:Arrests while the refuge is still occupied would be a bad idea, given its effect on the other armed people still onsite. Telling FedEx not to deliver may have been manageable, but it's not particularly meaningful. They don't know who slashed the tires, or they probably would have been arrested. It's a pretty good idea to catch criminals when you know exactly where they are, instead of waiting and hoping that they leave peacefully and return to a predictable location that they will stay at long enough so that you can catch them there, while also hoping that they will for some reason be less armed and more compliant in the future. It's also exceptionally good when the criminals have conveniently isolated themselves from the general public, as opposed to waiting for them to return to their homes and jobs among the general public. Also, allowing them to scatter can lead to multiple stand offs later, putting more people at risk, instead of one stand off now. Also, it would have probably been better to cut them off from supplies and recruits when it was clear that they were laughably unprepared. But hey, I am sure the current plan works too, since it is consistent with how they have been treated in the past. I am starting to wonder if the federal government is dragging its heels on this because it is an election year.
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Jan 13, 2016 03:44
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Crain posted:So it turns out that video of the dude "hacking" into the Refuge computers was real. They're using the office computers to host their own website. What website? If it's defendyourbase.net, that's just the guys existing web site that he threw some bundy crap onto. I hope OPB has seen more than just that same youtube video. Wayback Machine doesn't have it but I'm pretty sure it was a World of Tanks fansite until a couple weeks ago. GameCube fucked around with this message at 03:52 on Jan 13, 2016 |
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Jan 13, 2016 03:48
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kartikeya posted:Considering they aren't trying to arrest or impede anyone for B&E, stealing cars, sending death threats, destroying government property, or you know, outright sedition, I somewhat doubt they'd arrest someone in this group for slashing tires. Because those things all happened at the compound and were done by the occupiers. Nobody knows who did the tire slashing. ToastyPotato posted:It's a pretty good idea to catch criminals when you know exactly where they are, instead of waiting and hoping that they leave peacefully and return to a predictable location that they will stay at long enough so that you can catch them there, while also hoping that they will for some reason be less armed and more compliant in the future. It's also exceptionally good when the criminals have conveniently isolated themselves from the general public, as opposed to waiting for them to return to their homes and jobs among the general public. Also, allowing them to scatter can lead to multiple stand offs later, putting more people at risk, instead of one stand off now. Also, it would have probably been better to cut them off from supplies and recruits when it was clear that they were laughably unprepared. Yeah, you're just plain wrong. The very thing you responded to already explains why you're wrong. Keep digging in, though.
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Jan 13, 2016 03:51
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Venom Snake posted:https://www.splcenter.org/20140709/war-west-bundy-ranch-standoff-and-american-radical-right I've always meant to ask - where does the "poverty" in Southern Poverty Law Center come from? I looked on their website and wikipedia and couldn't see where they got their name. Is it a specific legal or regional term?
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Jan 13, 2016 03:53
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Gorilla Salad posted:I've always meant to ask - where does the "poverty" in Southern Poverty Law Center come from? No. The name appears to just reflect its original activities. Per the history section of their site, the original purpose of the organization was pro bono legal work for impoverished southerners (particularly blacks), but it almost immediately became focused on getting provisions of the Civil Rights Act actually enforced using test cases. So, it used to be a legal group that specifically helped poor people in the south, is all.
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Jan 13, 2016 04:02
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Here's some details on the harassment, for anybody still claiming they couldn't be arrested for it. They've got license plates to identify them by and everything. http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/residents_near_oregon_occupati.html
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Jan 13, 2016 04:03
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LeoMarr posted:People ITT: Arm Chairing the next WACO, then when the roadblock does happen and civilians die in the ensuing firefight "Welp they should have cut the power first" So what is your solution then, do nothing and wait for them to leave? What if they don't want to leave? There's nothing forcing their hand, I'm sure they can convince people to send them enough food to hold out as long as they want.
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Jan 13, 2016 04:13
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MaxxBot posted:So what is your solution then, do nothing and wait for them to leave? What if they don't want to leave? There's nothing forcing their hand, I'm sure they can convince people to send them enough food to hold out as long as they want. LeoMarr has no plan and is being contrarian for the sake of it.
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Jan 13, 2016 04:16
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Discendo Vox posted:Because those things all happened at the compound and were done by the occupiers. So?
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Jan 13, 2016 04:33
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Discendo Vox posted:Because those things all happened at the compound and were done by the occupiers. Nobody knows who did the tire slashing. Indeed. A true mystery for the ages.
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Jan 13, 2016 04:55
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I'm fine with assuming the FBI's tactics are inscrutable to me, but I'd like to know what's so tactically important about leaving these dudes alone so long that they've let the Bundy family incite two of these things personally and send the message nationally that if you're a white man in walmart tactical gear, and can massage your death threats correctly, you now can live your anti-obama underground army dreams out loud.
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Jan 13, 2016 05:01
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Intel&Sebastian posted:I'm fine with assuming the FBI's tactics are inscrutable to me, but I'd like to know what's so tactically important about leaving these dudes alone so long that they've let the Bundy family incite two of these things personally and send the message nationally that if you're a white man in walmart tactical gear, and can massage your death threats correctly, you now can live your anti-obama underground army dreams out loud. Create a honeypot and give individuals the freedom to radicalize and seek martyrdom.
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Jan 13, 2016 05:40
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I haven't seen it mentioned but does no one here think that the reluctance on the part of the Feds is likely a consequence of the upcoming presidential elections?
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Jan 13, 2016 05:58
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Kawasaki Nun posted:I haven't seen it mentioned but does no one here think that the reluctance on the part of the Feds is likely a consequence of the upcoming presidential elections? It's almost defintely part of it.
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Jan 13, 2016 06:04
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I don't think most people would be this anxious about the law enforcement response if something, anything would have happened after the original Bundy ranch incident. Cliven still hasn't even paid his fines has he?
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Jan 13, 2016 06:04
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Does that area just not get snow and cold weather or something.
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Jan 13, 2016 06:23
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Here's Chuck Baldwin falling all over himself to talk about how Cliven Bundy and the Bundy Ranch events were super justified and the Big Evil Federal Government and Waco amg and he's also not happy with the occupation of the wildlife refuge, though he devotes about two paragraphs to that in total. http://chuckbaldwinlive.com/Articles/tabid/109/ID/3410/Burns-Oregon-Is-Not-Bundy-Ranch.aspx Also, it's still probably the government's fault.
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Jan 13, 2016 06:31
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Kawasaki Nun posted:I haven't seen it mentioned but does no one here think that the reluctance on the part of the Feds is likely a consequence of the upcoming presidential elections? It's unlikely. This has been the normal FBI approach to this sort of situation for years.
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Jan 13, 2016 06:57
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Mormon Star Wars posted:I love that the thread of Waco is enough to not only demand that the place not be sieged (which is perfectly reasonable, don't get me wrong) but is now enough to also demand that nothing else be done even after the fact. Oh, a guy left and we could arrest him? That would be another Waco! Tell Fedex not to deliver? That'd be Waco! Maybe stop people from slashing locals tires? Waco. They ignored Bundy's ranch and two of them escalated by killing two cops and an idiot. If they just ignore them this time it might be another Waco
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Jan 13, 2016 07:01
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This thread needs some humor because I can't find these guys funny when literally nothing is being done to stop them (well, mostly. The Facebook video was pretty great), so here's an excerpt from that article I linked a few pages back regarding Sovereign Citizens. Behold, one of the (then at least) leaders of the movement:quote:A former tool-and-die maker, the man who writes his name as ": David-Wynn: Miller" - or, as he amusingly says it verbally, "David hyphen Wynn full colon Miller" - came up with his "truth language" scheme as a result of a frustrating court experience in 1988, when he was going through a divorce. In short, all truth language sentences used in court filings must begin with the preposition "for," contain at least 13 words, and use more nouns than verbs to be effective (he has claimed that only nouns have legal authority). David Wynn Miller considers himself a "Plenipotentiary Judge" in the Unity States of the World, and has named himself as the King of Hawaii, a feat he claims he accomplished when he converted Hawaii into a verb.
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Jan 13, 2016 07:16
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kartikeya posted:This thread needs some humor because I can't find these guys funny when literally nothing is being done to stop them (well, mostly. The Facebook video was pretty great), so here's an excerpt from that article I linked a few pages back regarding Sovereign Citizens. Behold, one of the (then at least) leaders of the movement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnc4Y5Pr-A8 I'm pretty sure I remember the dude lost his family and went crazy in this particular way. Just listen to the first couple minutes 
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Jan 13, 2016 07:21
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kartikeya posted:and has named himself as the King of Hawaii, a feat he claims he accomplished when he converted Hawaii into a verb. I legit cannot tell if you're joking or not, and it's fantastic. 
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Jan 13, 2016 07:43
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kartikeya posted:This thread needs some humor because I can't find these guys funny when literally nothing is being done to stop them (well, mostly. The Facebook video was pretty great), so here's an excerpt from that article I linked a few pages back regarding Sovereign Citizens. Behold, one of the (then at least) leaders of the movement: Man maybe the government does need to start putting antipsychotics in the water supply like fluoride
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Jan 13, 2016 07:56
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 But if you look up Pete Santilli in YouTube right now he's ranting about how they didn't break a single law. There weren't any No Trespassing signs, therefore, GameCube fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Jan 13, 2016 |
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Jan 13, 2016 08:02
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As a Millennial I posted:
It's true, as long as a car doesn't have a "don't steal, thanks" sign on it, it is my right as an American to take it for a cruise
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Jan 13, 2016 08:08
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As a Millennial I posted:But if you look up Pete Santilli in YouTube right now he's ranting about how they didn't break a single law. There weren't any No Trespassing signs, therefore, Someone needs to send him a link to this. quote:Oregon’s trespassing definition and penalties are found in Oregon Statutes 164 under the Burglary and Criminal Trespass section. Trespassing occurs when someone enters and remains unlawfully on a property or premises in which they don’t have permission to be on. Offenders can be found guilty of crimes of varying degrees based on the type of property and situation. There is no specific language on signage, a “posted” definition or proper notice.
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Jan 13, 2016 08:13
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 Here goes nothing.
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Jan 13, 2016 08:44
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If I win the Powerball, I am going to surround the occupied area with giant speakers and blast dubstep and trap until they surrender.
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Jan 13, 2016 08:49
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old dog child posted:If I win the Powerball, I am going to surround the occupied area with giant speakers and blast dubstep and trap until they surrender. Nah man, you gotta go gabber if you want to drive them out quickly. Bonus points if you set up speaker banks at such a distance that it's out of phase. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCuVNCSK4t8
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Jan 13, 2016 09:05
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skaboomizzy posted:Nah man, you gotta go gabber if you want to drive them out quickly. Bonus points if you set up speaker banks at such a distance that it's out of phase. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AguPH0XBxdw
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Jan 13, 2016 09:08
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FAUXTON posted:
You glorious bastard. 
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Jan 13, 2016 09:18
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Captain Bravo posted:Someone needs to send him a link to this. As public land, the refuge is owned by We The People, so they just gave themselves permission to enter. This is the level they're operating on.
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Jan 13, 2016 09:27
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Captain Bravo posted:Someone needs to send him a link to this. Uh, I don't recall ever agreeing to be bound whenceupon thusly thosefully laws. As a Free Man of the Land I invoke thusly my lawfully rightning born natural ways to enjoin my strawman identity and Corporate ID number thusly towards that law. Thusly it can not, on these naval lands under maritimes law, apply to the entity of me.
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Jan 13, 2016 09:42
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The refuge employees should just go there and start working.
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Jan 13, 2016 09:42
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FAUXTON posted:
What's the chance that in a few days we'll see a rant by the militiamen about the federal government sending poisoned care packages, accompanied by an appeal for more toilet paper?
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Jan 13, 2016 10:06
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This is the video that these people claim proves their case. In their chat they keep complaining that if they could just get enough people to watch this video, the country would be on their side. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T424sWq1SkE
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Jan 13, 2016 16:27
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A "constitutional attorney" huh? Edit: just got to the part where she says Marbury vs Madison is illegal, guess her practice consists of basically being too lazy to read anything but the constitution. Al! fucked around with this message at 16:35 on Jan 13, 2016 |
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Jan 13, 2016 16:32
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I can't believe your country has so many idiots in it. The sooner this gets violent the better.
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Jan 13, 2016 16:34
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budgieinspector posted:Don't know who sent those, but a friend of mine sent the dong: I have to say, that is very reasonably priced. ToastyPotato posted:It's a pretty good idea to catch criminals when you know exactly where they are, instead of waiting and hoping that they leave peacefully and return to a predictable location that they will stay at long enough so that you can catch them there, while also hoping that they will for some reason be less armed and more compliant in the future. It's also exceptionally good when the criminals have conveniently isolated themselves from the general public, as opposed to waiting for them to return to their homes and jobs among the general public. Also, allowing them to scatter can lead to multiple stand offs later, putting more people at risk, instead of one stand off now. Also, it would have probably been better to cut them off from supplies and recruits when it was clear that they were laughably unprepared. It really isn't, in this instance, a good idea to try to arrest them now specifically because they're attempting to have a standoff with the feds so that they can force them to back down again (because the feds are so tyrannical that they get all aikido about the whole thing). That is fairly specifically what they're there for, and they're "prepared" for that. There's a strong possibility that someone's going to get seriously injured if an attempt is made to "arrest the criminals" at this point. Aside from that, on general principle it's easier to confront a lone individual when they're not ready for you than it is a group of individuals that are. Strategy! Or is it tactics? I always get them mixed up. I mean, I don't think that even the people who strongly want law and order to prevail and for the feds to do something think that it's necessarily the best logistical plan in terms of preventing death or injury in this particular situation - it's just that they feel it's important enough to see the law at work (not wishing to put words into people's mouths, but that's my takeaway from the thread) that it's worth the risk.
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