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homullus posted:I didn't mean to imply an end, so maybe we agree after all. The license will be worth something to somebody someday. How about "D&D is contracting sharply"? Yeah, that makes sense. Like I said, it's bizarre. Their previous business models were based around putting out tons of books, adding content and keeping customers engaged. The online tools were another revenue stream. Does 5E have online tools? I saw they're not putting out any books in 2016 apparently. Other than DM's Guild and existing products, how else are they going to be making money?
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Jan 13, 2016 22:19
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Dr. Tough posted:Guys, I hate to spoil the ending because it look like people are having fun but: 5E is not going to be the end of D&D. Like, I'm sorry they canceled 4E but saying that WotC is failing or D&D is collapsing is the same kind of wishful thinking that that 3E grognards were criticized for saying about 4E when it came out. D&D, as a brand, will last forever. D&D, as a source of inspiration, has left a legacy that can't be beat. D&D, as a living product, can die.
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Jan 13, 2016 22:22
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Kurieg posted:Okay Christ, that's pretty bad. So what was the final outcome of the whole thing? Because it goes from really positive to really negative depending on if the sole online publisher is okay with creeper stuff on their portal or not. Realistically a gatekeeper to keep the scum end of the hobby from being able to effectively get their product to market is nothing but a positive thing. The internet/digital publishing is why we've had as many FATAL-lites as we have, so if we can put that genie back in the bottle it would be incredible. As far as the 5E OGL goes, can't say I see it as a good thing at all. I get that WotC desperately needs adventures written for 5E, but the one thing that the current game has going for it is how closed/dead it is. You don't have a constant sourcebook treadmill when you only have 0-2 books come out a year. If you allow OGL glut 2.0, you're going to see a pile of poorly designed stuff and fantasy heartbreakers completely drowning out the official releases. But since the only stuff WotC seems to put out are adventures and core books, that might be what they are going for.
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Jan 13, 2016 22:41
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OBS theoretically set up a pipeline by which people can report problematic books that will get reviewed and maybe taken down. I don't think it's actually been tested yet.
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Jan 13, 2016 22:45
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Kurieg posted:OBS theoretically set up a pipeline by which people can report problematic books that will get reviewed and maybe taken down. I don't think it's actually been tested yet. That's awesome, but I worry about abuse. As in, a bunch of gamer MRAs filing false reports on whoever is their current "SJW ruining our hobby" and getting stuff taken down or demonetized. Considering it's a small community and nerds are the worst, it seems like a plausible thing. The proper answer is actually reading and vetting what you are selling on your platform, but a lot of the e-commerce stuff I've seen is as low-effort as possible.
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Jan 13, 2016 22:54
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rkajdi posted:That's awesome, but I worry about abuse. As in, a bunch of gamer MRAs filing false reports on whoever is their current "SJW ruining our hobby" and getting stuff taken down or demonetized. Considering it's a small community and nerds are the worst, it seems like a plausible thing. The proper answer is actually reading and vetting what you are selling on your platform, but a lot of the e-commerce stuff I've seen is as low-effort as possible. Apparently reports will flag the product for review. Nothing will be taken down until DTRPG's staff looks it over. What this basically means is that nothing will ever be taken down.
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Jan 13, 2016 22:56
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Well I imagine if someone releases another tournament of rapists as an E rated product it will at least provide them a better avenue to find resolution than Tweeting at the company owner, who reacted in probably the worst possible way.
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Jan 13, 2016 22:58
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occamsnailfile posted:General popularity means that people with more...niche tastes will be drawn to D&D's OGL for their weird publishing needs, but I also feel like in putting that stuff out there and desiring validation for it, the authors want their work to be associated with a "real" (or THE real) game. Thus, poor OGL's coattails are ridden by some very awkward parasites. As an aside, I used to game with Shannon through my FLGS's board game night, and he was always extremely humble and welcoming. Like, to the point where you wouldn't know he had any sort of cred or influence outside of being friends with everyone in the local scene and having a ton of knowledge unless you actually looked him up online. Pretty much the polar opposite of the "king of poo poo mountain" types.
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Jan 14, 2016 01:00
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And only a year late. Serf posted:Their business plan is bizarre, because you gotta sell books to make money, but they're not doing that. I think it's pretty clear that they weren't making any money selling books, and that's why they're going to stop. There was an article by the D&D Brand Manager a couple years ago about how the brand is so much bigger than just the RPG. I interpreted that to mean that Salvatore and Greenwood are making Hasbro money, but Mearls isn't (directly).
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Jan 14, 2016 01:04
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rkajdi posted:That's awesome, but I worry about abuse. As in, a bunch of gamer MRAs filing false reports on whoever is their current "SJW ruining our hobby" and getting stuff taken down or demonetized. Considering it's a small community and nerds are the worst, it seems like a plausible thing. The proper answer is actually reading and vetting what you are selling on your platform, but a lot of the e-commerce stuff I've seen is as low-effort as possible. Funny enough MRAs and assorted whiny gamergate cast-offs are pretty convinced the SJW conspiracy plans to abuse the report system to do the exact same thing either way that won't happen Serf posted:Yeah, that makes sense. Like I said, it's bizarre. Their previous business models were based around putting out tons of books, adding content and keeping customers engaged. The online tools were another revenue stream. The 5e online character builder was being done by a third party and got into early beta before the plug was pulled (it was bad). At this point it seems like they're waiting until they can get plans for the movie off the ground before they try pushing the brand too hard. Honestly, if they did do an adaption of one of the Drizz't stories or, heck, the original Dragonlance trilogy and did a halfway-decent job that could be a big boost to D&D. It'd also give them a reason to put out some more campaign setting material as a tie-in for the movies. Until then monetizing all the fan content D&D produces anyway is a pretty smart idea
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Jan 14, 2016 01:18
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rkajdi posted:That's awesome, but I worry about abuse. As in, a bunch of gamer MRAs filing false reports on whoever is their current "SJW ruining our hobby" and getting stuff taken down or demonetized. Considering it's a small community and nerds are the worst, it seems like a plausible thing. The proper answer is actually reading and vetting what you are selling on your platform, but a lot of the e-commerce stuff I've seen is as low-effort as possible. There was a lot of noise coming from the usual grog.txt alumni, but like with anything involving them, it was all talk and no action.
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Jan 14, 2016 01:22
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dwarf74 posted:I dunno, guys. Since it's clear WotC really isn't in the 'writing and selling books' business these days, I think this is a substantially different situation than we saw under 3.x and 4e. It's not really creating your own competition if you're not actually competing. Yeah, I mentioned this in the next thread, but the context of "OGL will allow all sorts of shovelware to be shat out" is different when you don't have any official products for the shovelware to outshine. It's a way for people to answer "well look at all these third-party products!" when someone pipes up about how there hasn't been an announcement for a new adventure/supplement in months.
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Jan 14, 2016 01:24
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gradenko_2000 posted:Yeah, I mentioned this in the next thread, but the context of "OGL will allow all sorts of shovelware to be shat out" is different when you don't have any official products for the shovelware to outshine. It's a way for people to answer "well look at all these third-party products!" when someone pipes up about how there hasn't been an announcement for a new adventure/supplement in months. If anything the DM's Guild will be flooded with every DM's favorite house rules to "fix" 5e. Some of it might even be okay! And if WotC felt like it, they could harvest the best (selling) and make a 5.5e without putting any effort into it. We've finally hit True Modularity!
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Jan 14, 2016 01:30
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Nuns with Guns posted:The 5e online character builder was being done by a third party and got into early beta before the plug was pulled (it was bad). At this point it seems like they're waiting until they can get plans for the movie off the ground before they try pushing the brand too hard. Honestly, if they did do an adaption of one of the Drizz't stories or, heck, the original Dragonlance trilogy and did a halfway-decent job that could be a big boost to D&D. It'd also give them a reason to put out some more campaign setting material as a tie-in for the movies. Until then monetizing all the fan content D&D produces anyway is a pretty smart idea Y'know, I keep saying this: Vin Diesel loves D&D. People love Vin Diesel. A Dungeons and Dragons movie starring Vin Diesel would put asses in seats. I mean, I'm not pulling for D&D here because 5E is trash, but c'mon.
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Jan 14, 2016 01:31
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Serf posted:Y'know, I keep saying this: Vin Diesel loves D&D. People love Vin Diesel. A Dungeons and Dragons movie starring Vin Diesel would put asses in seats. Now I can't stop picturing Vin Diesel as Raistlin! ! 
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Jan 14, 2016 01:35
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Nuns with Guns posted:Now I can't stop picturing Vin Diesel as Raistlin! ! Vin Diesel as D'rizz't. 
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Jan 14, 2016 01:40
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Serf posted:Y'know, I keep saying this: Vin Diesel loves D&D. People love Vin Diesel. A Dungeons and Dragons movie starring Vin Diesel would put asses in seats. I would support Vin even if it meant I had to support dnd
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Jan 14, 2016 01:44
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TheTatteredKing posted:I would support Vin even if it meant I had to support dnd Y'know why? Because he's family.
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Jan 14, 2016 01:47
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Raistlin? Drizzt? Seriously? Vin Diesel as Elminster.
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Jan 14, 2016 01:55
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Slimnoid posted:There was a lot of noise coming from the usual grog.txt alumni, but like with anything involving them, it was all talk and no action. Their plan was to aggressively report role-playing games that weren't somehow regressive or lovely. They probably gave up looking after a month.
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Jan 14, 2016 02:01
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moths posted:Their plan was to aggressively report role-playing games that weren't somehow regressive or lovely. A month is being generous.
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Jan 14, 2016 03:55
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Serf posted:Y'know, I keep saying this: Vin Diesel loves D&D. People love Vin Diesel. A Dungeons and Dragons movie starring Vin Diesel would put asses in seats. Didn't he literally just do that movie but without the D&D name on it? How well did it do?
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Jan 14, 2016 04:11
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ProfessorCirno posted:Didn't he literally just do that movie but without the D&D name on it? How well did it do? wikipedia posted:As of January 1, 2016, The Last Witch Hunter has grossed $27.4 million in North America and $81.0 million in other territories for a worldwide total of $108.3 million, against a budget of $90 million.[4] Maybe not a financial failure, but it does have a 16% on RT. Personally I was sad I missed it.
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Jan 14, 2016 04:21
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It was a fun, dumb flick. More WoDish than D&D though.
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Jan 14, 2016 04:30
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Guilty Spork posted:Well, I think most tabletop game stores these days get more of their money from basically every other kind of tabletop game besides RPGs. CCGs and wargames both inspire regular purchases and draw people in via organized play, and the board game crowd just plain buys a lot of games. Especially given the large portion of the player base that apparently wants to settle into one D&D-ish game indefinitely, game stores carry RPGs basically because they're fans themselves and they want to and can do so without losing money.
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Jan 14, 2016 05:07
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quote:Vin Diesel's The Last Witch Hunter suggests the Fast and Furious star isn't much of a box office draw without his Furious family and a couple of musical bombs prove to be not only two of the worst openings of 2015, but of all-time given their theater count. http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=4116&p=.htm
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Jan 14, 2016 05:11
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whydirt posted:There is some kind of irony that WotC releases the new SRD the same time they start a witchhunt for people running partial proxy events for MtG formats constrained by their dumb reserve list. Disclaimer i work at a comics/card/board game shop The thing that gets me about this is it even applies to un sanctioned events. I understand if you're running an actual WotC sanctioned event, but a four man Vintage tourney should not have to worry about the proxy rules, or a Commander league (which you can technically sanction as a casual event I think) In the end it doesn't actually change too much but really it's just dumb.
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Jan 14, 2016 05:44
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Terrible Opinions posted:Maybe your local game stores are different, but without Pathfinder and D&D mine has basically only Fantasy Flight products on its RPG shelves. Without D&D and D&D esque games the RPG shelves become extensions of the 40k shelves. This doesn't mean those RPGs are keeping the doors open and lights on. I sold a handful of books and a starter set this holiday season. It's the most I've sold in years. RPGs are way down on the list of things that turn a profit for us, below GW, which we've all but tapped out of
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Jan 14, 2016 05:46
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Pope Guilty posted:Neil Gaiman made a bunch of money this way awhile back- he created some characters for Spawn that it was ruled were his, and he was awarded a chunk of back royalties for them. It also took a giant court battle that was also partly about who owned the rights to Marvelman, and it's generally assumed that Marvel took a big truck of Disneys money to Todd Macfarlane in exchange for wrapping that poo poo up quick, once they had Disneys money.
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Jan 14, 2016 05:50
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Serf posted:Apparently reports will flag the product for review. Nothing will be taken down until DTRPG's staff looks it over. What this basically means is that nothing will ever be taken down. If FATAL 2.0 or Black Toyko are put on there, it's going to get taken down. Book of Erotic Fantasy 5e, Old World of Darkness: Native American Stereotypes, MAID 2, and StoryGame: with some gross elements like MonsterHearts or Bliss Stage aren't. This is legitimately good in my book.
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Jan 14, 2016 06:04
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Fields, at the very least, presumably has enough brains not to post Black Tokyo to the Dungeon Masters Guild. After all, he doesn't put the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Compatibility License on such products, even though he is a signed licensee.
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Jan 14, 2016 07:54
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Serf posted:Does 5E have online tools? I saw they're not putting out any books in 2016 apparently. Other than DM's Guild and existing products, how else are they going to be making money? I'm real surprised they haven't been pushing this harder. Some small number of well made core books that you don't make much money from, but that gets people to pay for a useful and well made subscription service does seem like it could work real well. Some small number of core books and then opening up the license and calling it a day is a little harder to understand.
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Jan 14, 2016 08:45
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NutritiousSnack posted:If FATAL 2.0 or Black Toyko are put on there, it's going to get taken down. Book of Erotic Fantasy 5e, Old World of Darkness: Native American Stereotypes, MAID 2, and StoryGame: with some gross elements like MonsterHearts or Bliss Stage aren't. This is legitimately good in my book. Wieck's slippery-slope bullshit does not give me high hopes that this will be the case. OtspIII posted:I'm real surprised they haven't been pushing this harder. Some small number of well made core books that you don't make much money from, but that gets people to pay for a useful and well made subscription service does seem like it could work real well. Some small number of core books and then opening up the license and calling it a day is a little harder to understand. I know that I paid for the 4E tools for years, they were that useful. Giving people a character builder and monster builder for Dungeons and Dragons would be huge. I got tons of use out of those features before, and it just seems ludicrous that they wouldn't try to bring that back. Imagine if they had a fully-supported and regularly updated official version of Masterplan. With a subscription-based model, I'll bet they'd bring in substantial money.
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Jan 14, 2016 14:53
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I can see a lot of teething problems in the DMG's future. In particular, one which just occurred to me - there doesn't seem to be anything stopping you grabbing someone else's product and putting it straight back up at a lower price. Now I can see that being stamped down on, but what if you use a bunch of fan-generated subclasses in an big DMG supplement and provide a better deal to buy them that way? Surely there'll end up being some kind of race to 0, given that this makes everything uploaded there one step removed from being pay what you want?
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Jan 14, 2016 16:54
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Terrible Opinions posted:Maybe your local game stores are different, but without Pathfinder and D&D mine has basically only Fantasy Flight products on its RPG shelves. Without D&D and D&D esque games the RPG shelves become extensions of the 40k shelves.
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Jan 14, 2016 18:07
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MadScientistWorking posted:In Boston its the exact opposite. The RPG stuff is weirdly diverse to the point where I have no clue where they are sourcing these books from (ie. I own a book which has Evil Mastermind listed in the credits). And mind you Im asking because Im kind of curious as to what the retail system is in place for the RPGs that aren't D&D/Paizo. That said, I live in RI and there's only one store that really sells RPGs, and they're pretty new. They also don't carry a lot. Sometimes I'll drive to Northampton but it's a two-hour trip. Sarge's Comics in New London, CT, has an okay selection too, and is willing to stock newer stuff.
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Jan 14, 2016 18:11
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MadScientistWorking posted:In Boston its the exact opposite. The RPG stuff is weirdly diverse to the point where I have no clue where they are sourcing these books from (ie. I own a book which has Evil Mastermind listed in the credits). And mind you Im asking because Im kind of curious as to what the retail system is in place for the RPGs that aren't D&D/Paizo. Sounds like your place is the golden exception to the rule. Give them money to stay open.
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Jan 14, 2016 18:13
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NutritiousSnack posted:If FATAL 2.0 or Black Toyko are put on there, it's going to get taken down. Book of Erotic Fantasy 5e, Old World of Darkness: Native American Stereotypes, MAID 2, and StoryGame: with some gross elements like MonsterHearts or Bliss Stage aren't. This is legitimately good in my book. I dunno about that. I'd be fine with low level creeper stuff like BoEF and Cthulhutech or WoD: Book of NA/Roma Slurs simply not having a place to distribute anymore. But I'm one of those dirty types who actually wants the hobby to be a little more legitimate, and the only way to do that is to not be selling creeper fetish/racist poo poo in normal places. Flavivirus posted:I can see a lot of teething problems in the DMG's future. In particular, one which just occurred to me - there doesn't seem to be anything stopping you grabbing someone else's product and putting it straight back up at a lower price. Now I can see that being stamped down on, but what if you use a bunch of fan-generated subclasses in an big DMG supplement and provide a better deal to buy them that way? Surely there'll end up being some kind of race to 0, given that this makes everything uploaded there one step removed from being pay what you want? Couldn't the same thing have been done with OGL 1? If you can rope off your own stuff like you could previously, it's not a big deal. All the halfway respectable places don't put anything back into the pot that's useful to anyone else, so only the rubes get screwed by this. It sucks, but it might help make sure that a real glut doesn't happen and the amateurs stay on the sidelines.
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Jan 14, 2016 18:17
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rkajdi posted:Couldn't the same thing have been done with OGL 1? If you can rope off your own stuff like you could previously, it's not a big deal. All the halfway respectable places don't put anything back into the pot that's useful to anyone else, so only the rubes get screwed by this. It sucks, but it might help make sure that a real glut doesn't happen and the amateurs stay on the sidelines. The OGL won't allow this, essentially because you still own all the original content you publish under the OGL. With the DMG license, however, you give everyone else using the DMG license permission to use everything in the product for their own products, and so there's no roping off possible. There's been some worries already about what this means for the fonts and art used in DMG products.
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Jan 14, 2016 18:36
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Flavivirus posted:The OGL won't allow this, essentially because you still own all the original content you publish under the OGL. With the DMG license, however, you give everyone else using the DMG license permission to use everything in the product for their own products, and so there's no roping off possible. There's been some worries already about what this means for the fonts and art used in DMG products. bust out the Times New Roman and Papyrus! let's GIS some clipart!
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Jan 14, 2016 18:41
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