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Grand Theft Autobot posted:Three books really drove the point home on this for me, besides Phillips' book itself, which is a loving masterpiece. I will have to check them out. Thanks!
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Jan 13, 2016 21:23
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Grand Theft Autobot posted:lmao I just got to the part of the youtube video where the Goons are recounting jrod's belief that "Lincoln started the Civil War as an act of violence." Look at that sentence, and my last several posts, and tell me I'm somehow misreading this situation. I think this is one of my favorite libertarian positions by the by because it speaks volumes about the cultish brainwashing. Seriously, stop and think about that for just a second. Lincoln caused the civil war. Ignore the fact that the south seceded, that they took over federal land and fired the first shots of the war and just think about it. Libertarians actually believe that Lincoln intentionally provoked a war with the south so that he could expand federal power, that it had nothing (or next to nothing) to do with capitalism. I get that argument coming from someone who was raised the the cousin-loving south. Lost cause and all that jazz. But Jrodefeld is from California and so he isn't growing up with his friends and neighbors talking about the war of northern aggression. No, he goes online reading libertarian arguments and eventually Lincoln gets brought up as using the state to end economic exploitation of slaves in the south, and he needs an answer. Jrodefeld came to this loving absurd position because he needed some way to win an argument, that is it.
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Jan 13, 2016 21:43
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Caros posted:I think this is one of my favorite libertarian positions by the by because it speaks volumes about the cultish brainwashing. Jrod had a helpful metaphor to explain Lincoln's tyranny to. According to him (paraphrasing), "Imagine you live in a large apartment complex, and a few of your fellow tenets committed a crime. All of a sudden a million SWAT teams show up and are going to arrest the entire apartment complex for the crimes of just a few residents! Wouldn't those people who hadn't committed a crime be justified in defending themselves?" His version was, of course, twenty times longer, but no less stupid.
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Jan 13, 2016 21:55
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Caros posted:I think this is one of my favorite libertarian positions by the by because it speaks volumes about the cultish brainwashing. It sounds to me like he's absorbing the white supremacist code-talk while consuming his libertarian lit, and because they are indistinguishable, and because jrod doesn't know anything about history or politics, he's parroting white supremacist arguments masquerading as libertarian philosophy. Seriously, why the gently caress would anyone talk about Lincoln being an aggressor against the South unless they are a slavery or segregation apologist? And interesting that you bring up the "Lost Cause," which is obviously another perfect example of white supremacy framing itself in a socially acceptable (and incredible transparent) line of argumentation, in that case "States' Rights."
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Jan 13, 2016 22:00
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Who What Now posted:Jrod had a helpful metaphor to explain Lincoln's tyranny to. According to him (paraphrasing), "Imagine you live in a large apartment complex, and a few of your fellow tenets committed a crime. All of a sudden a million SWAT teams show up and are going to arrest the entire apartment complex for the crimes of just a few residents! Wouldn't those people who hadn't committed a crime be justified in defending themselves?" Which only makes 'sense' when you work off the incorrect idea that slave ownership was limited to only a handful of people in the south, when in fact it was so widespread that up to a third of all households owned at least one slaves in many states. Also the secession was handled by popular vote in many states, putting the lie to the idea that the majority of the state populations were innocent bystanders. I think a better example would be if your apartment complex was a drug house and you knew it and chose to continue living in and indirectly profiting from the drug trade. And then the drug dealers started shooting at the police and you figured 'when in rome'.
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Jan 13, 2016 22:08
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Caros posted:Which only makes 'sense' when you work off the incorrect idea that slave ownership was limited to only a handful of people in the south, when in fact it was so widespread that up to a third of all households owned at least one slaves in many states. Also the secession was handled by popular vote in many states, putting the lie to the idea that the majority of the state populations were innocent bystanders. And then later, you claim that the drug raid was never about drugs, it was about property rights being taken away from you by tyrannical statists.
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Jan 13, 2016 22:18
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Grand Theft Autobot posted:And then later, you claim that the drug raid was never about drugs, it was about property rights being taken away from you by tyrannical statists. And also forget to mention the fact some of the residents got together and preemptively firebombed the Police Station a day or two before the SWAT teams arrived.
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Jan 13, 2016 22:21
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Since the libertarian-slavery connections come up again, I have to say I'm still no over how he posted that list of countries which prioritized "economic liberty" more than the US and it had loving slaver states on it which he somehow failed to even notice. How on earth, even with the billboard-sized ideological blinders that dude wears, do you miss that?Who What Now posted:And also forget to mention the fact some of the residents got together and preemptively firebombed the Police Station a day or two before the SWAT teams arrived. And those few people in the building who object to it all are routinely terrorized and/or murdered by everyone else (except those few in the annex out back who finally split off and-gently caress, this West Virginia analogy is getting out of hand).
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Jan 13, 2016 22:25
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Since the libertarian-slavery connections come up again, I have to say I'm still no over how he posted that list of countries which prioritized "economic liberty" more than the US and it had loving slaver states on it which he somehow failed to even notice. How on earth, even with the billboard-sized ideological blinders that dude wears, do you miss that? Keep in mind he asked if it was 'real' slavery or not, so it is likely that he just knew absolutely nothing about those states and their problems and was just vomiting up the list wholesale. I'm still pouting that he didn't debate me like he promised. 
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Jan 13, 2016 22:28
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Caros posted:Keep in mind he asked if it was 'real' slavery or not, so it is likely that he just knew absolutely nothing about those states and their problems and was just vomiting up the list wholesale. He said exactly as much. But then a few hours later he had skimmed the Wikipedia article and was thus an expert and there was no way it could be real slavery, they probably just didn't have a union to let them sit on their fat asses all day, you know? quote:I'm still pouting that he didn't debate me like he promised. We all are.
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Jan 13, 2016 22:30
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We're talking about him like he's dead now. Is he dead??
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Jan 13, 2016 23:00
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Since the libertarian-slavery connections come up again, I have to say I'm still no over how he posted that list of countries which prioritized "economic liberty" more than the US and it had loving slaver states on it which he somehow failed to even notice. How on earth, even with the billboard-sized ideological blinders that dude wears, do you miss that? And then, when called on it, he:
I'd almost say it was my favorite JRod moment, but the whole bit where he got scammed by a dentist is still the best.
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Jan 13, 2016 23:05
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That poo poo was classic. You want to talk about real slavery? Let's start with the income tax 
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Jan 13, 2016 23:07
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Aren't you forgetting how he invented the distinction between "economic liberty" and "personal liberty?" I'm perversely impressed with his ability to make poo poo up in order to avoid ever admitting the possibility that he could ever be wrong about anything.
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Jan 13, 2016 23:15
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Halloween Jack posted:Aren't you forgetting how he invented the distinction between "economic liberty" and "personal liberty?" And then when someone pulled quotes from him saying "economic rights are human/civil rights" he tried to play that off too.
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Jan 13, 2016 23:19
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Halloween Jack posted:Aren't you forgetting how he invented the distinction between "economic liberty" and "personal liberty?" After having claimed that they were in fact indistinguishable, or at least the latter flowed only from the former! Caros posted:I'm still pouting that he didn't debate me like he promised. Hey, don't feel too bad. He was supposed to actually fight Literally the Worst and nothing came of that either.
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Jan 13, 2016 23:21
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Nolanar posted:And then, when called on it, he: God I always forget about the dentist and it was so loving priceless. For me that will forever be peak Jrod. Confronted with an overwhelming preponderance of scientific, unbiased fact and he still tries to argue that he did the right thing because his dentist told him what was the right thing to do, and so he knew who he'd trust. Because of course his dentist could never be wrong, or malicious or anything. Nope. Big Amalgam is instead in a giant conspiracy with millions of dentists to cause mental disease in america that apparently occurs in such low quantities that you still can't even see it when you look at other countries that have never used this kind of filling. It is the perfect summary of him. All of this data at his fingertips and he will believe the first thing someone he 'trusts' tells him because no gently caress you dad!
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Jan 13, 2016 23:24
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The finest jrod moments are the hills he chooses to die on for no discernible reason. The amalgam fillings, the Lincoln bit, the vaccine insanity, each of them were brilliant, shining moments in this thread. Come back jrod, we miss you 
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Jan 13, 2016 23:26
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Caros posted:God I always forget about the dentist and it was so loving priceless. Wasn't part of that whole thing that he likely damaged his teeth in not-insignificant ways by having his old fillings drilled out? That (if I'm remembering right) was what ultimately did it for me: not only was he staggeringly ignorant, conspiratorially minded, rejecting overwhelming evidence to the contrary, and willing to let a quack roll him, he preferred actually damaging his own health to admitting he was wrong.
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Jan 13, 2016 23:29
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Wasn't part of that whole thing that he likely damaged his teeth in not-insignificant ways by having his old fillings drilled out? That (if I'm remembering right) was what ultimately did it for me: not only was he staggeringly ignorant, conspiratorially minded, rejecting overwhelming evidence to the contrary, and willing to let a quack roll him, he preferred actually damaging his own health to admitting he was wrong. tl;dr gently caress you dad
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Jan 13, 2016 23:31
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theshim posted:It wasn't even his teeth so much as the fact that, in theory, the purpose of removing the amalgam fillings was to get the mercury out of his mouth to prevent long term absorption and negative effects. In practice, having the fillings drilled out alone exposed him to orders of magnitude more mercury than he would have if he had the fillings in for his entire life. Its this. Even if he was right about the mercury that was leaching out of the fillings being dangerous (He isn't, you would get more mercury from a few cans of tuna a year than from a mouth full of fillings) the fact is that to remove the fillings requires them to be drilled out. This is bad for your teeth because they are going to end up drilling out parts of your teeth to get the fillings out, it is bad for your wallet because it costs money to do this, and it ultimately fails at its stated goals because when you pop these things out you get something like 120x the total lifetime mercury into your body in one go. It is astoundingly stupid and I can only imagine Jrod's dentist sitting at home snickering about the way he tricked another rube into getting perfectly good fillings removed because of autism or some poo poo.
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Jan 13, 2016 23:49
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Captain_Maclaine posted:Hey, don't feel too bad. He was supposed to actually fight Literally the Worst and nothing came of that either. We don't know that for sure! Dickeye, has a crazed man run up to you and tried to beat you up while demanding you stop aggressing against him? Recently I mean.
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Jan 13, 2016 23:51
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Nolanar posted:We don't know that for sure! Dickeye, has a crazed man run up to you and tried to beat you up while demanding you stop aggressing against him? Recently I mean. I mean I work at a comic book store so you have to narrow it down some
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Jan 13, 2016 23:54
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I seem to remember him going off on a tangent about states imposing an age of consent, when nobody had even mentioned such a thing 
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Jan 13, 2016 23:55
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Literally The Worst posted:I mean I work at a comic book store so you have to narrow it down some Were any of them astoundingly handsome and cool?
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Jan 13, 2016 23:56
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Pththya-lyi posted:I seem to remember him going off on a tangent about states imposing an age of consent, when nobody had even mentioned such a thing Yep! It's one of those weird traps that libertarians fall into without anyone even setting them. You're trying to have a reasoned debate about the proper role of government in society, and all of a sudden bam, they start ranting about the unspeakable violation of human rights that is age of consent laws / DUI laws / the Civil Rights Act. Who What Now posted:Were any of them astoundingly handsome and cool? Goddammit I'd forgotten about this one too. We miss you JRod.
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Jan 14, 2016 00:04
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Who What Now posted:Were any of them astoundingly handsome and cool? And really, really concerned about your shop having the freedom to discriminate among its prospective clientele? Pththya-lyi posted:I seem to remember him going off on a tangent about states imposing an age of consent, when nobody had even mentioned such a thing Reminder that 2008 Libertarian Party primary candidate Mary Ruwart was vocal about the dangerous, liberty-quashing effects of age of consent laws (since we all already know about Rothbard's position on the subject): quote:Children who willingly participate in sexual acts have the right to make that decision as well, even if it’s distasteful to us personally. Some children will make for choice is just as some adults do in smoking and drinking to excess; this is part of life. When we outlaw child pornography, if the prices paid for child performers rise, increasing the incentives for parents to use children against their will.
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Jan 14, 2016 00:05
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Captain_Maclaine posted:And really, really concerned about your shop having the freedom to discriminate among its prospective clientele? Fun story, a libertarian podcast had Ruwart on late last year to blab about freedom and liberty etc. They were doing a call in show so I decided to ring them up and went on a pretty amusingly vile rant about how I was one of her biggest fans in the 2008 election and how she really spoke to me. They must have had me on for about ten minutes with me praising her and babbling about libertarianism before I pointed out that the reason I was so in favor of her was that it was so refreshing to hear a politician speak the truth about how my (non-existent) thirteen year old daughter was eager and able to consent. poo poo got real quiet after that. Wish I still had the audio because I swear you could hear the blood draining from her face.
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Jan 14, 2016 00:23
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Ah yes, the rising price of child performers, society's most pressing concern.
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Jan 14, 2016 01:16
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Caros posted:Seriously, stop and think about that for just a second. Lincoln caused the civil war. Ignore the fact that the south seceded, that they took over federal land and fired the first shots of the war and just think about it. Libertarians actually believe that Lincoln intentionally provoked a war with the south so that he could expand federal power, that it had nothing (or next to nothing) to do with capitalism. Property rights are sacrosanct, unless its godless abolitionist federal property, then blow up that fort. And any privately-owned ship that tries to come near it.
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Jan 14, 2016 01:18
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I have the right to do business with whomever I choose! No, of course this doesn't mean that negroes have a right to do business with whatever business they choose, especially not mine! What do you mean this all sounds incoherent???
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Jan 14, 2016 01:57
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VitalSigns posted:Property rights are sacrosanct, unless its godless abolitionist federal property, then blow up that fort. Well you see only individuals can own property because....
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Jan 14, 2016 02:05
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Grand Theft Autobot posted:I have the right to do business with whomever I choose! No, of course this doesn't mean that negroes have a right to do business with whatever business they choose, especially not mine! What do you mean this all sounds incoherent??? Now now. Whites have a right to do business with who they choose, and blacks have the right to do business with who they choose, as long as it's voluntary. The free market will decide which race does better! *blacks start to do better* *whites slaughter them indiscriminately and burn their businesses*
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Jan 14, 2016 02:51
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Nolanar posted:Now now. Whites have a right to do business with who they choose, and blacks have the right to do business with who they choose, as long as it's voluntary. The free market will decide which race does better! 1.) If we had DROs this never would have happened 2.) Note that the Tulsa Race Riot occurred in 1921, 14 years after Oklahoma bacame a State. Checkmate, liberals
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Jan 14, 2016 03:31
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When you're trying to figure out how libertarians managed to blame Lincoln for the Civil War, bear in mind that if the sovereign citizens holed up in the bird refuge went down into the town tonight and started murdering public officials, It Would Be Obama's Fault for Spreading Tyranny
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Jan 14, 2016 03:50
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Caros posted:Well you see only individuals can own property because.... *Invades Pennsylvania* *Captures and enslaves free men* "Well it could be worse, you could be living under a broad interpretation of the commerce clause!"
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Jan 14, 2016 03:58
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Southerners are so barbaric. In the North, we at least have the decency to destroy black communities by bulldozing them to make way for highways for commuting suburban whites.  Why don't you lazy parasites pull yourselves up by your bootstraps? What's that? We bulldozed your restaurant, your uncle's barbershop, and the only bank in your neighborhood? Sounds like liberal entitlement to me.
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Jan 14, 2016 04:01
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Caros posted:Keep in mind he asked if it was 'real' slavery or not, so it is likely that he just knew absolutely nothing about those states and their problems and was just vomiting up the list wholesale. But the word 'chattel' was never used, so it's obviously not slavery. I mean, duh.
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Jan 14, 2016 12:03
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Grand Theft Autobot posted:Southerners are so barbaric. In the North, we at least have the decency to destroy black communities by bulldozing them to make way for highways for commuting suburban whites. HEY! We also expanded a state university into part of those slums! Where else would we be able to find hipsters and artisnal toast boutiques today if not for the bulldozing of undesirables in the 1930s??? Edit: Also where would 3M, Target and Best Buy get all of it's lovely middle managers if not for this? Huh? BUG JUG fucked around with this message at 13:20 on Jan 14, 2016 |
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Jan 14, 2016 13:17
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BUG JUG posted:HEY! We also expanded a state university into part of those slums! Where else would we be able to find hipsters and artisnal toast boutiques today if not for the bulldozing of undesirables in the 1930s??? The free market has spoken, minorities, and it said "gently caress you!"
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Jan 14, 2016 14:45
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