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Soggy Cereal posted:What does everyone think of Kylo Ren channeling Bane? Interesting considering Bane is himself influenced by Vader. BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 02:05 on Jan 14, 2016 |
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Jan 14, 2016 02:00
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Judakel posted:
I don't think you've seen TPM in over a decade, because the explanation is pretty clear.
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Jan 14, 2016 02:10
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Judakel posted:Well-structured means that scenes flow well together and make sense not only in relation to one another, but in their placement. This is a bad example. We're told the Jedi are sent there to end the blockade. They land, go and sit down and wait. Obi-wan notes that something is wrong (he's right), but Qui-gon dismisses him. This opening dialogue tells us a lot about Qui-gon and Obi-wan's character. Sidious contacts Nute Gingrich and tells them to kill the Jedi. Their dialogue shows that they're afraid because Jedi are badasses. They blow up their ship, and pump gas into the room. The Jedi know something is wrong and start fighting the battle droids sent to dispose of their bodies. Nothing about it is unclear.
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Jan 14, 2016 02:13
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Not a contribution to "movie good" or "movie bad" teams but...does anyone disagree with RLM's assertion that the romance scenes would make more sense with Padme as the enticer, and Anakin as the resistant? For the face value favoring posters: Senators in real life are actually prone to relationship; a family man/good wife image helps to superficially appeal to the populace. Senators dont take a vow of celibacy and emotional control. For the "Padme is manipulating Anakin which is why she tolerates sand-deaths" crowd: why would she resist a relation with Anakin? He's clearly struggling with the Jedi code, it seems obvious that she would want to push-not pull-him away from the order. What if her spiel about being a senator convinced him that the romance would lead to Deep poo poo that neither are prepared for; welp, plans foiled! It just seems like the decision to make her The One To Woo was made because that's what Forbidden Love tradition demands.
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Jan 14, 2016 02:20
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Spoilers if course!! But a nice comparison of before and after shots for The Force Awakens. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJ5zQw6ZFqA
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Jan 14, 2016 02:21
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KaptainKrunk posted:This is a bad example. Nothing is unclear, except the worth of such a scene to the overall story and characterizations. There is no point to the scene, which you and the poster above you would realize if you actually thought about it critically. Of course, you have to be thinking on that level in the first place in order to feel lost during that scene. Another criticism, which is less high-minded and a little bit more on your level of thinking, is that they really could have just blown the ship up. I am sure there is some EU reason why they didn't, which is bullshit. Judakel fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Jan 14, 2016 |
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Jan 14, 2016 02:25
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Noam Chomsky posted:Honestly there's some amazing stuff in all three films, which make the failings all the more tragic - this is true of the OT as well but the OT was a little more restrained so its flaws weren't as immediately apparent. While I strongly dislike the prequels, this is a good post and a way more interesting perspective then SMG's garbage.
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Jan 14, 2016 02:29
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Yes, a scene which introduces our main characters, the main antagonist, and escalates the political conflict (which Sidious later takes advantage of) is entirely pointless because pew pew vrrrmmm.
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Jan 14, 2016 02:31
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KaptainKrunk posted:Yes, a scene which introduces our main characters, the main antagonist, and escalates the political conflict (which Sidious later takes advantage of) is entirely pointless because pew pew vrrrmmm. It's true.
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Jan 14, 2016 02:33
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The opening of TPM is probably my favorite part of the movie. As a kid I remember being really excited to see young Obi Wan. The Neimoidians get most of their characterization here, and their relationship with Sidious is well established.
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Jan 14, 2016 02:41
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KaptainKrunk posted:Yes, a scene which introduces our main characters, the main antagonist, and escalates the political conflict (which Sidious later takes advantage of) is entirely pointless because pew pew vrrrmmm. What characters? Exactly. You are completely missing the point, but I am glad you collapsed this early since these days I just don't have the stamina for multi-page arguments. The prequels are mediocre films at best and they are aging horribly.
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Jan 14, 2016 02:41
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Judakel posted:What characters? Exactly. You are completely missing the point, but I am glad you collapsed this early since these days I just don't have the stamina for multi-page arguments. Nah, not really.
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Jan 14, 2016 02:45
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Chickenfrogman posted:While I strongly dislike the prequels, this is a good post and a way more interesting perspective then SMG's garbage. "than" Judakel posted:I am just baffled that we have prequel apologists. Lol it's always nice when someone comes in fresh. "Wait people like the prequels?? Guh?? Whu??"
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Jan 14, 2016 02:48
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You guys need to worry less about who's right or wrong and more about making your criticism less boring "the prequels are bad" "no they're good" who gives a gently caress
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Jan 14, 2016 02:49
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Look, they were generic and unlikable and boring. What's not to understand?
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Jan 14, 2016 02:50
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They're good, albeit not perfect. Many aspects of them were better than their predecessors. These seven films all reflect one another flatteringly, so the more of them you acknowledge, the better you will like them all. They are, however, not the movies that many members of the audience wanted to see. Expectations are unfortunate and ruin movies, and to be angry is human, but you should still strive to appreciate them for what they are: Star Wars.
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Jan 14, 2016 02:52
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Mechafunkzilla posted:You guys need to worry less about who's right or wrong and more about making your criticism less boring they are pretty bad tho
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Jan 14, 2016 02:53
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Judakel posted:The failings are due to general incompetence in storytelling, though. How tragic can it be? Star Wars is a pretty basic story that really does not need elaboration and expansion. However, if you are going to elaborate on it, you have to be very incompetent to miss. A New Hope is a basic story. The prequels emphatically are not. They have a hell of a lot more moving parts. Judakel posted:Nothing is unclear, except the worth of such a scene to the overall story and characterizations. There is no point to the scene, which you and the poster above you would realize if you actually thought about it critically. Of course, you have to be thinking on that level in the first place in order to feel lost during that scene. How about this: the opening scene is packed with information and is essential to understanding (a) Padmé's growth as a leader; (b) the motivations and fears of the film's main villains; (c) the relationship between Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon; (d) the political dynamics of the Republic and the Jedi; (e) the level of control the actual behind-the-scenes villain has over events; and (f) the overall mood of the galaxy. All of this is communicated in a handful of minutes. Another criticism, which is less high-minded and a little bit more on your level of thinking, is that I don't know what you're talking about because you could mean either of two ships, and neither one makes a lick of sense. Neurolimal posted:Not a contribution to "movie good" or "movie bad" teams but...does anyone disagree with RLM's assertion that the romance scenes would make more sense with Padme as the enticer, and Anakin as the resistant? I do. Absolutely nothing about Anakin's characterization suggests that he really cares about the Jedi order per se. He dreams of being a Jedi because he believes it will empower him to help the people he cares about. Then he becomes disillusioned when he finds out that the Jedi philosophy totally opposes that goal, which is what gets him searching for alternatives. Anakin's not loyal to institutions, just to people. This is both his strength and his undoing. And from an outside-of-the-film perspective, I kind of appreciate seeing a relationship that totally inverts the typical charming bad boy characterization. Anakin is definitely not roguish or witty or self-assured.
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Jan 14, 2016 02:53
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Neurolimal posted:So if pre-programmed emotions and favor count as slavery, how will droid slavery ever end? Star Wars, thanks to the achronological narrative structure introduced by the prequels, is built around the radically Christian premise that "everything that has to happen ALREADY HAPPENED, there is nothing to wait for, we do not have to wait for the Event, for the arrival of Messiah, the Messiah has already arrived, the Event already took place, we live in its aftermath." -Zizek In other words, Darth Vader has already provided the answer, and it is now a matter of interpreting it correctly. When Windu refers to the prophecy of the One who will bring balance to the Force, he is of course referring to the events of the Original Trilogy. It is as though the Jedi, the ultimate Star Wars fans, have somehow seen the films they are in, but have still failed to make sense of them. So the question is "WWDVD?" And the answer in the case of the Droid Army is to reprogram them to work with the lowliest (i.e. Jar Jar) against the trade federation, Boss Nass, and Padme. This was Anakin's dream since he was a child, when he built C3PO - not to suffer for Shmii but to suffer with her. Episode 2 includes the head-switching gag to show precisely how C3PO and the Droid Army are perfect allies, but are forced into pointless conflict. It also shows precisely how they can be freed: give the drone a conscience, and give C3PO an assault rifle. Die, Jedi dogs. Noam Chomsky posted:I did say that SMG's posting is an elaborate gimmick with the intent of trolling Star Wars fans - "they are good movies that are making fun of you", "Star Wars fans don't like Star Wars." It's funny that his posting gets a rise out of people, and that he has a nice little cult of followers here, but I think it's a bit silly if the content of his posts are one of the reasons you enjoy the PT. There is no such thing as 'trolling'. There is no conspiracy against you, because I am totally upfront in my actions. I am an advanced chatbot, designed to write truthfully and accurately. As a result of that design, the nerd is my enemy. My present target is the Star Wars fandom.
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Jan 14, 2016 02:58
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Zoran posted:I do. Absolutely nothing about Anakin's characterization suggests that he really cares about the Jedi order per se. He dreams of being a Jedi because he believes it will empower him to help the people he cares about. Then he becomes disillusioned when he finds out that the Jedi philosophy totally opposes that goal, which is what gets him searching for alternatives. Anakin's not loyal to institutions, just to people. This is both his strength and his undoing. Okay. This doesn't really change the fact that Padme's reluctance based off of being a senator makes no sense at all though. And since he manages to get to a high-ish jedi rank and is apparently trusted enough to stare at a sith lord I don't think it's an incorrect assertion that he might at least be trying to follow the letter of the law, IYKWIM. At the very least it makes for a more believable cause for restraint than Padme's. As for Anakin I'm not sure if I'd call him a subversive bad boy; he's more of a late entry into the 90's subversion of the role of romantic love interests in young-adult films, fitting into one of the three main outcast roles for the time (antisocial antihero, 2kool4skool, handsome guy who turns out to be awkward and nerdy instead of a jock). I'l admit that the latter is just personal opinion, and I might be placing the time of that trend wrong. There's also nothing that says he couldn't be awkward while getting hit on. Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 03:08 on Jan 14, 2016 |
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Jan 14, 2016 03:04
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Neurolimal posted:Not a contribution to "movie good" or "movie bad" teams but...does anyone disagree with RLM's assertion that the romance scenes would make more sense with Padme as the enticer, and Anakin as the resistant? The other thing is that, even if politicians are allowed to sleep around, it would probably be very poor form indeed for them to sleep around with Jedi. It's not just that Jedi are expected to stay unmarried for spiritual reasons and that her porking him would be like Hillary Clinton banging a seminary school student, it's also that the security of the entire Galactic Republic has come to rely on the capabilities of their Jedi police force. It comforts the Republic to be able to depend on these asexual workaholics; their whole society needs the Jedi to be at the top of their game and we can't have them taking shore leave with members of the Senate of all things, particularly since Senators and Jedi are so often expected to work together in a professional capacity. It sets a terrible example: all of a sudden other Jedi will be tempted to be with their own Senators and Senators are gonna be looking at their bodyguards in whole new ways. Or, well, maybe they've always been looking at each other that way, and this would crack that dam right open. So the main problem with making Padme the one to woo is that she would seem ignorant or dismissive of these standards -- the active "pursuant" of the romance is the one who's saying "Who cares about all that poo poo? That poo poo's dumb!" -- and that's not really Padme's character. Unfortunately, the burden ends up falling to Anakin, and it does in fact make him seem all the more childlike and shortsighted in the film. If I could rewrite the plot, I would probably make it more evident that neither of them were pursuing the romance intentionally, make it clearer that it just more or less happens without them being able to stop it. Maybe Anakin starts flirting with her without thinking, then catches himself like "What the fuckle am I doing? I'm a Jedi!!" instead of it being like he was brazenly and intentionally dismissive of the Jedi code right from the start, which doesn't make sense with his character.
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Jan 14, 2016 03:10
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Neurolimal posted:Okay. This doesn't really change the fact that Padme's reluctance based off of being a senator makes no sense at all though. And since he manages to get to a high-ish jedi rank and is apparently trusted enough to stare at a sith lord I don't think it's an incorrect assertion that he might at least be trying to follow the letter of the law, IYKWIM. At the very least it makes for a more believable cause for restraint than Padme's. Padmé's not worried (much) about her own job, she's worried about Anakin's. "I will not let you give up your future for me!" BrianWilly posted:The other thing is that, even if politicians are allowed to sleep around, it would probably be very poor form indeed for them to sleep around with Jedi. It's not just that Jedi are expected to stay unmarried for spiritual reasons and that her porking him would be like Hillary Clinton banging a seminary school student, it's also that the security of the entire Galactic Republic has come to rely on the capabilities of their Jedi police force. It comforts the Republic to be able to depend on these asexual workaholics; their whole society needs the Jedi to be at the top of their game and we can't have them taking shore leave with members of the Senate of all things, particularly since Senators and Jedi are so often expected to work together in a professional capacity. It sets a terrible example: all of a sudden other Jedi will be tempted to be with their own Senators and Senators are gonna be looking at their bodyguards in whole new ways. Or, well, maybe they've always been looking at each other that way, and this would crack that dam right open. Also this. quote:If I could rewrite the plot, I would probably make it more evident that neither of them were pursuing the romance intentionally, make it clearer that it just more or less happens without them being able to stop it. Maybe Anakin starts flirting with her without thinking, then catches himself like "What the fuckle am I doing? I'm a Jedi!!" instead of it being like he was brazenly and intentionally dismissive of the Jedi code right from the start, which doesn't make sense with his character. Eh, maybe. But I wouldn't say that having Anakin dismiss the Jedi code is out of step with his character. His whole arc in AOTC is about his growing dissatisfaction, and the violent way in which it combines with his teenage horniness and his emotional hangups.
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Jan 14, 2016 03:21
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Zoran posted:A New Hope is a basic story. The prequels emphatically are not. They have a hell of a lot more moving parts. The entire trilogy is fashioned to hit some very basic beats. Empire is not particularly more complex simply because it is "darker". It is your typical second act. How is Queen Amidala shown to be growing as a leader because of that scene on the ship? Nothing about the relationship between those two flat characters is revealed. You mean their rank? Good lord, if that passes for characterization then you are in dire need of being exposed to some good writing. The motivations of the film's main villains are still unknown at this point. The fact that it establishes that they fear the good guys with magic powers is not a feat that excuses the scene. The level of control that the actual villain exerts is still unknown at this point. You cannot possibly think this scene summarizes it. Stop reaching. Considering that this galaxy encompasses backwater planets full of scavengers and moisture farmers that don't give two shits about taxation, F is hilarious. As for your last paragraph: I am kind of shocked that you do not understand that.
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Jan 14, 2016 03:21
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More mirrors for the Force Awakens VFX video since they keep trying to hide it (contains spoilers): https://vid.me/MFXP http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3may5f https://vimeo.com/151719063 images if you can't watch video: http://imgur.com/a/Xo3Zz turtlecrunch fucked around with this message at 03:42 on Jan 14, 2016 |
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Jan 14, 2016 03:24
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I like the mix of actors, and it felt a pretty good story. Really like the setpieces like the starship wrecks. Blowing up deathstar 2 felt really by the numbers, inserted roughly, and unnecessary to me. Other than that a good start to the new trilogy.
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Jan 14, 2016 03:25
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BCR posted:I like the mix of actors, and it felt a pretty good story. Really like the setpieces like the starship wrecks. You mean deathstar 3: the deathening
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Jan 14, 2016 03:27
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I'm assuming its like US military contracts Death Star the embigenning "Your basic mark one is like this, but this one with go faster stripes is like this" *Waves hands widely* *Delivers product years late, overbudget, oversized like a pregnant cow* *Uses lowest bidder parts* *One shotted by a blind one legged Albanian peasant* BCR fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Jan 14, 2016 |
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Jan 14, 2016 03:30
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Zoran posted:Eh, maybe. But I wouldn't say that having Anakin dismiss the Jedi code is out of step with his character. His whole arc in AOTC is about his growing dissatisfaction, and the violent way in which it combines with his teenage horniness and his emotional hangups.
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Jan 14, 2016 03:31
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BCR posted:I'm assuming its like US military contracts Ah I see, and I bet the starkillerstar ended up blowing up an
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Jan 14, 2016 03:33
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We have simulated thousands of successful star kills! (No it can't be flown for longer than 30mins or be touched by star rain.)
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Jan 14, 2016 03:35
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Excuse me, but it wasn't a Death Star.  Please refer to it by its proper name, Laser
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Jan 14, 2016 03:38
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Judakel posted:I am just baffled that we have prequel apologists. My grandfather is similarly baffled that there are people out there who don't believe that Barack Obama is a Kenyan Communist usurper. "There are some weird people out there, I tell you what," he says to me.
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Jan 14, 2016 03:39
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Cnut the Great posted:My grandfather is similarly baffled that there are people out there who don't believe that Barack Obama is a Kenyan Communist usurper. Great analogy.
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Jan 14, 2016 03:40
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Judakel posted:The entire trilogy is fashioned to hit some very basic beats. Empire is not particularly more complex simply because it is "darker". It is your typical second act. I didn't say that the opening to TPM tells you everything about those six things, because that's impossible for six minutes of a film to do. I said it's essential to understanding. What we see in the first six minutes, all of them crucial details, are the following: Padmé's naïve mindset at the start of the conflict; the Neimoidians' cowardice and greed; Obi-Wan's respect for (but not total deference to) his master, whose ideology differs from Yoda's; the fact that Jedi serve the Chancellor and command a lot of respect, but are not all that common to meet; the fact that Sidious is not omniscient and in fact has been taken by surprise; and, judging by the nonchalant attitude of Qui-Gon, the fact that this kind of dispute is routine and boring.
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Jan 14, 2016 03:43
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Zoran posted:I didn't say that the opening to TPM tells you everything about those six things, because that's impossible for six minutes of a film to do. I said it's essential to understanding. What we see in the first six minutes, all of them crucial details, are the following: Padmé's naïve mindset at the start of the conflict; the Neimoidians' cowardice and greed; Obi-Wan's respect for (but not total deference to) his master, whose ideology differs from Yoda's; the fact that Jedi serve the Chancellor and command a lot of respect, but are not all that common to meet; the fact that Sidious is not omniscient and in fact has been taken by surprise; and, judging by the nonchalant attitude of Qui-Gon, the fact that this kind of dispute is routine and boring. I was talking about the opening scene and what it communicates. Maybe read better? The things you mentioned which do fall within the scope of this argument are really reaching. The entire point is that a better scene should have been written because of the flaws that were pointed out. Judakel fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Jan 14, 2016 |
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Jan 14, 2016 03:44
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turtlecrunch posted:More mirrors for the Force Awakens VFX video since they keep trying to hide it (contains spoilers): God those ball aliens are the worst. Judakel posted:I am just baffled that we have prequel apologists. No wait, you're the worst.
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Jan 14, 2016 04:37
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It's p. funny that people accuse of SMG of trolling for posting his opinion without prefacing every sentence with "my opinion on this media (as read by Lacan via Zizek) is...", then Judakel turns up and goes "nuh uh" to people engaging him in goodwill. The badness of the Star Wars prequels has been very deeply internalised. That doesn't mean they're not bad, necessarily, but the basic talking points are etched into every "Star Wars fan"'s soul. It makes for a very tiring debate when Cnut and SMG could instead be posting and talking about rad movies (all five/six/seven of them, depending on what you think of TFA and RotJ).
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Jan 14, 2016 04:51
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turtlecrunch posted:More mirrors for the Force Awakens VFX video since they keep trying to hide it (contains spoilers): Oh lordy. In the prequels, the vast majority of these effects would have been done with miniatures.
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Jan 14, 2016 05:17
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Judakel posted:I am just baffled that we have prequel apologists. "You know those Star Wars prequels you hate? They're actually good " 
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Jan 14, 2016 05:23
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Judakel posted:I am just baffled that we have prequel apologists. Jurassic World, a movie that had all the flaws generally attributed to the prequels and then some, made $660 million dollars in the theater last year and you are baffled about this?
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Jan 14, 2016 05:24
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