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seiferguy posted:Ehhh I'm not that much of a dick. I knew her okay my freshman year (she was close mutual friends of my college roommate), but after that year I haven't seen her in person again. Purposefully saying "yeah, you're dumb" will only make people dig their heels in, and I'm more about changing minds. Well, I've been nice in the past and it's never loving worked. Even after explaining to some guy that he's complaining about a tone argument instead of what I'm really talking about (white supremacy benefits the Bundy ranchers), he's decided that tone and politeness is a better discussion. This is of course anecdotal for me. I've been trying with several people for years now and I'm just kind of tired of their excuses. It's frustrating  .
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Jan 14, 2016 00:08
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Rick_Hunter posted:Well, I've been nice in the past and it's never loving worked. Even after explaining to some guy that he's complaining about a tone argument instead of what I'm really talking about (white supremacy benefits the Bundy ranchers), he's decided that tone and politeness is a better discussion. So you were talking to Discendo Vox?
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Jan 14, 2016 00:43
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Who What Now posted:So you were talking to Discendo Vox? Why would I even bother with that? No, they're the typical white people who can't discuss white privilege without getting upset and taking everything personally.
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Jan 14, 2016 00:46
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Did you actually use the term "white supremacy"? I mean you wouldn't be wrong, but you'd be more convincing to them if you talked about the concepts without actually naming them. Yeah, yeah tone argument and all that.
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Jan 14, 2016 01:26
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Sebadoh Gigante posted:Did you actually use the term "white supremacy"? I mean you wouldn't be wrong, but you'd be more convincing to them if you talked about the concepts without actually naming them. Yeah, yeah tone argument and all that. It was in W. Kamau Bell's most recent article about Oregon, they weren't my words. http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/01/ammon-bundy-oregon-seige-white-privilege One person took offense because he thought Bell was calling for the execution of the ranchers even though he never wrote anything like that. I've tried using the term 'majority privilege' before because what's white privilege in the US is not in another non-majority white country, but still to the same effect - 'I don't like the way you're talking to me, you're making me feel bad' 
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Jan 14, 2016 01:35
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Rick_Hunter posted:It was in W. Kamau Bell's most recent article about Oregon, they weren't my words. http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2016/01/ammon-bundy-oregon-seige-white-privilege quote:I've tried using the term 'majority privilege' before because what's white privilege in the US is not in another non-majority white country, but still to the same effect - 'I don't like the way you're talking to me, you're making me feel bad' Oh no, that sounds even worse. You'd be better off framing it in terms of respect, and how personal experiences differ based on social, economic and racial background, you know, the details of privilege, without actually using the word privilege. The terminology doesn't really mean anything if they don't accept the concepts behind it, and they'll just get defensive and think it's all about blame.
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Jan 14, 2016 02:13
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Sebadoh Gigante posted:"Oh so society should start treating white people the way it treats black people then? Is that what you're saying?!" When you frame it as a personal experience it only furthers the incident as an individual moment of discrimination like black crime vs white mass murderers. The point of talking about it systemically is to take all these personal experiences and show that there's an obvious trend with the issue. The most you get with an personal experience is 'Man, that guy was a lovely racist to you.' Change it to a study about redlining and it becomes a personal attack. The same thing happened with another friend who's a cop - if you talk about a story of police injustice (like the one in Mississippi) you'll get an outpouring of support for better police practices and accountability. You think you've almost reached them. Then you mention a systemic problem like Ferguson and it's "Oh, so you think all cops should be executed?!?!?! #BLUELIVESMATTER #ALLLIVESMATTER'. The ship sailed a long time ago with trying to make them understand.
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Jan 14, 2016 02:26
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Jan 14, 2016 02:29
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Turn your cheek unless you can dehumanize people -- A judeo-christian (what the gently caress does that even mean, anyway? abrahamic word salad?) nationa's response to trying times
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Jan 14, 2016 02:34
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Rick_Hunter posted:When you frame it as a personal experience it only furthers the incident as an individual moment of discrimination like black crime vs white mass murderers. The point of talking about it systemically is to take all these personal experiences and show that there's an obvious trend with the issue. The most you get with an personal experience is 'Man, that guy was a lovely racist to you.' Change it to a study about redlining and it becomes a personal attack. The same thing happened with another friend who's a cop - if you talk about a story of police injustice (like the one in Mississippi) you'll get an outpouring of support for better police practices and accountability. You think you've almost reached them. Then you mention a systemic problem like Ferguson and it's "Oh, so you think all cops should be executed?!?!?! #BLUELIVESMATTER #ALLLIVESMATTER'. Well of course you still talk about it as a systemic issue, but framing it overtly in terms of privelege can be, uh, problematic, because they, er, trigger, a defensive reaction. Then again some people just won't let go of their entrenched biases. For some people, "white supremacy" is nothing short of klan rallies, cross burnings, and lynchings, and when you mention it when talking about something less overtly racist then they just assume you're exaggerating. And when people here "privilege" they think you're saying "you have something extra that you don't deserve. Give it up now!" so they get defensive. This article goes into detail about the history of privilege theory, although I think they might be over-assigning blame to the theory for ending some movements.
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Jan 14, 2016 02:47
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Words fail me https://www.facebook.com/1469661956672393/videos/1498861847085737/?fref=nf
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Jan 14, 2016 03:09
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Sebadoh Gigante posted:Well of course you still talk about it as a systemic issue, but framing it overtly in terms of privelege can be, uh, problematic, because they, er, trigger, a defensive reaction. Then again some people just won't let go of their entrenched biases. Thank you for the article. When I've tried to explain it to my friends I've explained it as 2 couples going to a used car lot, 1 black and 1 white, to get a car. Both couples are in the market for a minivan because they're thinking about starting a family soon. Both males have middle class jobs - doctor and lawyer - both with a few years experience and the pay therein (still paying for loans, that's why they're getting a used car). The car lot does not have a policy on saving cars for customers - first come, first serve. The white couple gets offered a 2014 Honda Odessey with minimal wear and tear and 10,000 miles. The black couple gets offered a 2010 Dodge Caravan that not horrible but not as bad as the Honda - 65,000 miles, stain residue in the carpets, etc. The black couple has to insist that they want something a little younger and a little less worn out. Maybe the salesperson thought they couldn't afford the more expensive Honda. Maybe they thought that since other black couples had a lot of kids they'd be content with something that would get beat to hell. Obviously that's a verbose version of it but the point is that minorities don't get the privilege of being treated as the norm. Yes, everyone gets something but you as a minority don't get offered the norm because people have misconceptions about you. I'm not saying that the white couple needs to give up it's  unethically earned income (like traditional privilege theory would consider it) or that they should let the black couple buy the car.
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Jan 14, 2016 03:27
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Barney Fife jumped the gun on everything and was always suspicious of the wrong people. A Good Macro.
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Jan 14, 2016 03:35
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hallebarrysoetoro posted:A judeo-christian (what the gently caress does that even mean, anyway? abrahamic word salad?) It's an attempt to get Jews to side with them in politics by saying "Hey, you know, we believe a lot of the same things, and your religion is pretty close to ours, so you really should agree with us and vote for the same people we do."
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Jan 14, 2016 04:03
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hallebarrysoetoro posted:Turn your cheek unless you can dehumanize people -- A judeo-christian (what the gently caress does that even mean, anyway? abrahamic word salad?) nationa's response to trying times It's nothing but the right trying to jerk that Israeli dick in their mouth. They didn't give two fucks about the Jewish peoples until we found out that, oops, right wingers murdered a bunch of em in ovens.
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Jan 14, 2016 04:13
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They still don't give two fucks about the Jews. Israel is an outpost of American power, an apartheid state, and as much a European-controlled colony as South Africa back in the day, and for all those reasons conservatives support it especially in the post 9/11 era when fear and racism won out over sexism and homophobia and conservatives decided to hate and fear Muslims rather than enlist their support for theocracy and male chauvinism. Israeli Jews are collectively "one of the good ones" as long as they're slaughtering Palestinian children, if an American Jew ever says something economically progressive or even just anti-Zionist all the old anti-semitism comes bubbling right back up from the right.
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Jan 14, 2016 05:08
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VitalSigns posted:They still don't give two fucks about the Jews. Israel is an outpost of American power, an apartheid state, and as much a European-controlled colony as South Africa back in the day, and for all those reasons conservatives support it especially in the post 9/11 era when fear and racism won out over sexism and homophobia and conservatives decided to hate and fear Muslims rather than enlist their support for theocracy and male chauvinism. The religious right also has a gigantic, raging boner for Judaism. Trust me, it's very important to remember that and the whole "we must protect the holy land at all costs" thing. They act like there's a crusade going on right this minute.
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Jan 14, 2016 05:10
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Also the fundies support Israel because the Jews need to be in Israel to bring about Armageddon. No I'm not joking.
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Jan 14, 2016 05:11
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Jesus trap only accepts kosher bait. I'm sorry
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Jan 14, 2016 05:38
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I'm open-minded, but KEEP YOUR OPINION TO YOURSELF!
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Jan 14, 2016 09:07
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Dr. Faustus posted:I'm open-minded, but KEEP YOUR OPINION TO YOURSELF! The problem with society is that people are too easily offended. What? You said "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas?" WAR ON CHRISTMAS!
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Jan 14, 2016 13:54
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Klaus88 posted:Jesus trap only accepts kosher bait. I'm sorry I laughed 
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Jan 14, 2016 13:58
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Sebadoh Gigante posted:Words fail me https://www.facebook.com/1469661956672393/videos/1498861847085737/?fref=nf I reported this video and got told it didn't go against community standards. Good to know that now you can put out videos promoting running people down with cars on facebook.
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Jan 14, 2016 14:12
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Beyond the obvious racism, it's loving annoying as hell to me that people will argue, "WHAT DO YOU EXPECT IF YOU'RE STANDING IN THE STREET???", not recognizing that the current way our streets are used is a hosed up historical (and geographical) aberration and not something God designed right after platypuses.
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Jan 14, 2016 17:59
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http://time.com/4180442/medals-free-speech-court/?xid=homepage Surely you people out there with nuttier friends must have seen some opinions on this already. My opinion on it: Sure it's pretty tasteless to wear medals you haven't earned. But on the other hand I don't want to leave it in the hands of the police to dictate who needs to be hauled away. Based on what brass trinkets they're wearing. "I did ten years in the marine corps and I tell ya. That guy ain't wearing that medal in the right place. It's stolen valour I say. He probably stole it or bought it on that there internal net. Lets take him down to the station and get this matter settled and I swear we will see that he's got no service record"
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Jan 14, 2016 18:20
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If someone I knew was wearing fake medals to try and impress people, I don't think I'd think very highly of that person. The same goes for all sorts of things, like a person with a swastika tattoo. I'm not about to call for the government to enforce my tastes though. I think that laws against fraud cover my opinions on the matter. If someone fraudulently tries to get some sort of government benefit based on their service it's already illegal.
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Jan 14, 2016 18:31
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Jan 14, 2016 18:32
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Mellow Seas posted:Beyond the obvious racism, it's loving annoying as hell to me that people will argue, "WHAT DO YOU EXPECT IF YOU'RE STANDING IN THE STREET???", not recognizing that the current way our streets are used is a hosed up historical (and geographical) aberration and not something God designed right after platypuses. My city enforces pedestrian right of way. Don't know if that's a common thing, but it makes sense to me that drivers should be watching out for pedestrians more than pedestrians should have to be responsible for the 2-ton hunk of steel barreling about the city (every one of those drivers would have been charged here, knowingly running down human beings is a crime).
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Jan 14, 2016 18:35
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Holy poo poo. I've seen this posted a few times on SA now between the various threads on D&D and PYF. I just noticed Zimmerman as "white." Just  . I remember in 2012/2013 people were saying the moment he is no longer "one of the good ones," he'll be labeled Hispanic. It's like poetry. It rhymes
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Jan 14, 2016 18:36
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Zephyrine posted:http://time.com/4180442/medals-free-speech-court/?xid=homepage I wonder how this affects the Stolen Valor Act of 2013. If he was charged in 2007, and charged under the 2005 version, wouldn't his ruling only affect that particular law? Seems like the 2005 version has had multiple challenges.
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Jan 14, 2016 18:37
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Are they complaining that Caitlyn Jenner was called a hero and not a heroine? 
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Jan 14, 2016 18:37
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Jan 14, 2016 19:08
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Willatron posted:My city enforces pedestrian right of way. Don't know if that's a common thing, but it makes sense to me that drivers should be watching out for pedestrians more than pedestrians should have to be responsible for the 2-ton hunk of steel barreling about the city (every one of those drivers would have been charged here, knowingly running down human beings is a crime). That video has nothing to do with pedestrian right of way and everything to do with people using a vehicle to assault people. Other option, they were significantly impaired to get a DUI or reckless driving charge.
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Jan 14, 2016 19:12
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TerminalSaint posted:Also the fundies support Israel because the Jews need to be in Israel to bring about Armageddon. No I'm not joking. My wife's maternal grandfather, a few years before his recent death, actually made several donations to a fund which, this is no poo poo how he explained it, 'provides airfare for Jews who are looking to escape Russia, if they want to return to Israel, so that the apocalypse can happen faster.' Least important but in my opinion most entertaining, there is the idea that not all of ~The Jews~ actually came from Israel seems to have never crossed his mind. Once, while trapped in a car with his wife (while my wife was asleep in the backseat), I was engaged aggressively on my lack of support for Israel in their conflict with 'those Palestinians.' When I mildly explained about the pattern of war crimes and other despicable behavior, it was scornfully handwaved away for the primary reason of 'well ~the others~ do even worse all the time.' Also, the third or fourth time I went to visit them, they treated me to a rousing pep talk about a fire team of Marines who were being prosecuted because they executed surrendered enemy combatants in cold blood after a firefight in Afghanistan. I guess they were expecting me, as a recently-discharged infantry soldier, to get all fired up about the injustice of subjecting ARE TROOPS to the the legal penalties for a multiple homicide. Instead they got to sit and listen to me explain about my internal ethical conflict when, during the deployment process, my squad's NCOs got us together to talk about what would have to happen to keep everyone out of jail in the event that we accidentally killed the wrong person. Fortunately we never did, so I never had to actually make a decision!
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Jan 14, 2016 19:14
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Flipping off the camera: something totally associated with adults.
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Jan 14, 2016 19:35
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The Trayvon picture gets me. It's a teenager throwing up the finger to his webcam. That's like their number 2 use after dick pics. Why is this scary? Why should it change my opinion of the guy? Show me a teenager, regardless of race, who never threw a middle finger at a digital camera and I'll show you a liar. Teenagers do it all the time to look tough and mature. Welcome to the new millennium, macro-creator, you have some catching-up to do. And he was under-aged when he was gunned down, so yes, from the law's eyes he was a "child". EDIT: oh wow SA isn't feeling good. Seraphic Neoman fucked around with this message at 19:52 on Jan 14, 2016 |
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Jan 14, 2016 19:40
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SSNeoman posted:The Trayvon picture gets me. It's a teenager throwing up the finger to his webcam. That's like their number 2 use after dick pics. Why is this scary? Why should it change my opinion of the guy? Show me a teenager, regardless of race, who never threw a middle finger at a digital camera and I'll show you a liar. Black men and women showing aggression are treated as adults in the eyes of
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Jan 14, 2016 19:46
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Rick_Hunter posted:Black men and women showing aggression are treated as adults in the eyes of Adults at 12 when it makes a better racist point; childlike simpletons the rest of the time. Sometimes, confusingly, both simultaneously.
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Jan 14, 2016 20:04
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One of the worst things about the Trayvon Martin debacle was how badly racists tried to shoehorn Martin into the unstopable animal strength black man stereotype - even though the corner's report said in plain writing that he was at 17 year old kid that was 6'1 and 158.
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Jan 14, 2016 20:39
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Goatman Sacks posted:One of the worst things about the Trayvon Martin debacle was how badly racists tried to shoehorn Martin into the unstopable animal strength black man stereotype - even though the corner's report said in plain writing that he was at 17 year old kid that was 6'1 and 158. You forget that he was armed with a concrete sidewalk.
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Jan 14, 2016 20:51
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