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   We take Mersing without a fight.   The offensive here continues. I'm still trying to clear out the railway lines.  The Chinese attack our forces, but they are poorly lead and inexperienced, and take heavy losses.   We need more troops to take Manilla.   Not much to mention here today.  I have no idea why these guys thought this was a good idea. They decided to go through mined Bataan to get to the location instead of the unmined hex.  Green is the expected safe route. Red is the route this bunch of idiots took.
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Jan 13, 2016 18:07
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It wouldn't be a proper war without people occasionally disobeying your orders to do something incredibly stupid. Or awesome, sometimes.
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Jan 13, 2016 18:11
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I think exploring the "Set TF Routing" options might help your pixelmen be a little more predictable. There are a couple of toggles there that determine what route a task force will take. It defaults to "normal" which means the AI tries to route around enemy-held areas, but contested areas (like the Philippines here) can confuse it. Unless I'm dealing with convoys in rear-areas, I almost always set pathing to "direct". You can also use it to set waypoints if you want to route around an enemy area but don't trust the AI to make good decisions.
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Jan 13, 2016 19:08
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So we're closing in on Singapore. Any idea what its defenses look like right now?
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Jan 13, 2016 20:46
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Grey Hunter posted:Green is the expected safe route. Red is the route this bunch of idiots took. Might want to turn on hex-side details, I think that side of Clark is not reachable by sea (ie, its' red instead of blue).
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Jan 13, 2016 20:57
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Pervis posted:Might want to turn on hex-side details, I think that side of Clark is not reachable by sea (ie, its' red instead of blue). Correct. 
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Jan 13, 2016 21:08
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Grey Hunter posted:
MacArthur still not withdrawn to Bataan? You're not pushing him hard enough....  ..
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Jan 14, 2016 00:47
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fredleander posted:MacArthur still not withdrawn to Bataan? You're not pushing him hard enough.... Dude was an egotistical douche. Might be for the best if he never leaves the Philippines.
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Jan 14, 2016 00:54
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Cythereal posted:Dude was an egotistical douche. Hmm....wherever did you read that...  ...?Cythereal posted:Might be for the best if he never leaves the Philippines. Seems to be holding up quite well. I'm a great admirer of MacArthur...he was the best... 
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Jan 14, 2016 01:02
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fredleander posted:Hmm....wherever did you read that...  gently caress MacArthur. Bonus 
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Jan 14, 2016 01:27
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posted:
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First a nazi apologist, then a Macarthurite. WW2 threads bring out the worst in people. But also great grandpa stories And Grey sinking ships. Sometimes even ones belonging to the enemy! 
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Jan 14, 2016 01:27
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fredleander posted:Hmm....wherever did you read that... "Our principal difficulty is General MacArthur. ... Here we seem to have a case of a commander publicly suggesting that his policy is not the policy of his government, not subject to the control of his own government, and who his own government is, nevertheless, unwilling or unable to discipline." "Truman has earned the gratitude of all peace-loving peoples everywhere, by eliminating the greatest single opposition to peaceful efforts and policies in the Far East." "I think the world learned a lesson - when you leave a man in a position of authority too long, he stops looking for ideas different from his own thoughts."
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Jan 14, 2016 01:41
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There was also his need to force all navy orders to go through him which caused impossible delays everywhere and indirectly caused the battle off samar to happen with such an enormous disadvantage for taffy 3. That's without even talking of what happened in Korea and that he wanted to start ww3 early.
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Jan 14, 2016 01:47
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SIGSEGV posted:There was also his need to force all navy orders to go through him which caused impossible delays everywhere and indirectly caused the battle off samar to happen with such an enormous disadvantage for taffy 3. Samar had nothing to do with MacArthur, that was all on Halsey for failing to cover the San Bernardino strait. Honestly MacArthur wasn't nearly as good as he thought he was, but he was by no means as incompetent as people in this thread often consider him to be.
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Jan 14, 2016 06:07
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my war hero is eddie slovik, but i sure do like watching the pixels fight my grandpa did some stuff too but after he got out of the military he was a mailman and that's an honorable profession right there
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Jan 14, 2016 06:08
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How does he compare to Montgomery, though?
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Jan 14, 2016 06:22
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Unlike Montgomery, mailmen will actually deliver.
Neophyte fucked around with this message at 06:44 on Jan 14, 2016 |
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Jan 14, 2016 06:41
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McArthur wasn't incompetent but he had one of the most massive egos of any commander. He's right up there with Marc Clark in doing useless stupid poo poo just to get his name in the papers. He's also the one who thought dropping nukes on the chinese once they intervened in Korea was the best course of action.
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Jan 14, 2016 07:19
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Here are a few quotes on MacArthur from Ronald Spector's Eagle Against the Sun, indexed by page.110 posted:[A]lthough the bravery of his Filipino and American troops and Japanese mistakes could somewhat improve the tactical situation, they could do little to alter the effects of MacArthur's ill-conceived scheme on the United States forces' logistical system. Under MacArthur's plan for defending all of Luzon, supplies and equipment had been moved to forward areas near the beaches instead of to Bataan as they would have been under the told Orange plans. Now these same supplies had to be hurriedly transferred to Bataan. Through heroic efforts, MacArthur's staff managed to move some of the supplies from the Manila Bay area across to Bataan and Corregidor, but much had to be abandoned when the city was evacuated on December 31. The Orange planners considered the Philippines as a whole indefensible. American forces were to withdraw to a fortified position around Manila Bay (denying it to Japan) and hold until rescue operations could be mounted. MacArthur, believed to be intimately familiar with the Philippines due to long service there, was responsible for convincing high command to shift to a beach defense. 117 posted:As the distinguished Australian historian Gavin Long observes, "MacArthur's leadership in the Philippines had fallen short of what might have been expected from a soldier of such wide experience." Like Kimmel and Short, but with less excuse, he had allowed his air force to be crippled by surprise attacks on the first day of the war. His ill-conceived and grandiose plan to defend the entire archipelago had resulted in confusion and near disaster; it helped to produce the acute supply shortage which was sapping the strength of the Bataan forces. His grandiloquent pronouncements, together with his strange refusal to visit the front, hurt morale and shook the confidence of his men. 138 posted:The troops on Luzon would have been defeated in any case, but without MacArthur they might have been defeated without being racked by disease and tortured by slow starvation. I feel like this one really captures the essence of his personality: 189 posted:General MacArthur left Melbourne for his new headquarters aboard a special train on July 21 [1942]. Behind MacArthur's maroon-colored coach, built for the Prince of Wales's visit to Australia and still bearing the royal crest, were two flatcars. The first carried MacArthur's limousine, gleaming in the afternoon sun; the second bore General Sutherland's slightly less grand Cadillac. A steady hand and strong diplomacy in New Guinea: 190 posted:The Japanese advance [along the Kokoda trail] caused amazement and consternation at General MacArthur's headquarters. having been assured (quite erroneously) by his staff that the Australians outnumbered the Japanese on the Kokoda trail, MacArthur could only conclude that "the Australians won't fight." Superficial inspections of "the front" by Sutherland and his staff served to reinforce the commander in chief's misgivings. As the Japanese advance continued, MacArthur's headquarters became almost panic-stricken: this looked like Malaya all over again! General H. H. Arnold, visiting MacArthur on an inspection tour in early September, was surprised to see his "hands twitch and tremble—shell shocked". Arnold departed with the impression that "the Australian is not a bushman; he is not a field soldier. He is nothing but a city slum dweller." An officer on MacArthur's staff told Admiral Nimitz that New Guinea was "gone." Prime Minister John Curtis "won't let the Americans do anything in New Guinea because of the political effect it might have" and the Australians themselves "won't fight. This war has been a series of disasters and withdrawals for them and now they have the habit." This wouldn't be the last time he blamed Australian troops or, indeed, the Australian national character for setbacks in his theater. 217 posted:History has not been kind to MacArthur's "striking victory" in Papua. "The only result," concluded the army's official historian, "strategically speaking, was that after six months of bitter fighting and some 8,500 casualties, including 3,000 dead, the Southwest Pacific Area was exactly where it would have been the previous July had it been able to secure the beachhead before the Japanese ever got there." Others have pointed out that the Japanese entrenched at Buna and Sanananda could have been isolated and bypassed once the Allies had secured an airstrip at Dobodura.
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Jan 14, 2016 08:09
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Acebuckeye13 posted:that was all on Halsey for failing to cover the San Bernardino strait. Halsey didn't cover the San Bernardino straight because he thought it was already covered by a detachment from Oldendorf's fleet. With hindsight we know that that detachment was just hypothetical/speculative rather than an actual order that was carried out, but such a miscommunication need not have come about if MacArthur's pissing contest with Nimitz didn't unnecessarily complicate the comms set-up during the invasion.
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Jan 14, 2016 09:31
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There's an interesting bit in max Hastings' book on the Pacific theatre, Nemesis about how macarthur was a continual wanker and essentially whiny baby throughout his entire career, except for his "redemption" during the occupation. I don't know about that (especially because I dislike Hastings) but I've yet to read a single defence of the man that would hold up to even the slightest scrutiny. The Philippines were not his personal fief, and shouldn't have been treated as such.
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Jan 14, 2016 09:51
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Grey Hunter posted:
If they had gone direct to "Clark Field", instead of skirting Bataan, what kind of port, and for how long time, had you planned for all these ships to be unloaded?
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Jan 14, 2016 12:03
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lenoon posted:There's an interesting bit in max Hastings' book on the Pacific theatre, Nemesis about how macarthur was a continual wanker and essentially whiny baby throughout his entire career, except for his "redemption" during the occupation. I don't know about that (especially because I dislike Hastings) but I've yet to read a single defence of the man that would hold up to even the slightest scrutiny. The Philippines were not his personal fief, and shouldn't have been treated as such. The official historian (Morrison) is actually quite lenient with him.... lenoon posted:...I've yet to read a single defence of the man that would hold up to even the slightest scrutiny. I did try in an article posted here: http://www.mediafire.com/view/56kyr114y9zukc0/HistorumQJH+vol.2-No.3.pdf I believe it starts on page 104. Enjoy! fredleander fucked around with this message at 12:36 on Jan 14, 2016 |
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Jan 14, 2016 12:06
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  We jump north.  Sigh.  I'm going to try a shock attack here – it might be all that is needed to break the enemy.  I hope we have driven this sub off at least.  We crack another layer of fortifications – an destroy a lot of enemy squads! This is a good day, despite what the raw numbers of losses say.  We continue to batter the Chinese across the country.  Well, that's the Manchurian garrison stripped bare. I should have the doom stacks needed to wrap China up relatively quickly. Maybe a year or two....  Bloody AI pathing.
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Jan 14, 2016 18:12
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What this really boils down to: Japanese weapons 7.7mm Light Machineguns x 20 American weapons .50 Cal Heavy Machineguns x 78
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Jan 14, 2016 18:20
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I'm going to laugh when the Americans reoccupy that base in southern Mindanao that GH landed on, took, and then immediately evacuated from. Also, maybe taking Bataan while it's undefended would be a good plan? If nothing else, it would let you sweep the mines from the entrance to Manila Bay so that you could send battleships in to bombard the enemy in Manila. How are you doing on oil, by the way? It looks like you haven't taken Palembang, Tarakan or Balikpapan yet, and the longer you give the Allied garrisons to dig in the more likely that you end up damaging the oil when you have to crack through fortifications.
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Jan 14, 2016 19:15
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fredleander posted:The official historian (Morrison) is actually quite lenient with him.... [citation needed]
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Jan 14, 2016 20:36
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McNally posted:[citation needed] I started to look through the pages in the link, but stopped when I realised that no matter what was contained in the MacArthur article it wouldn't match what I'd already seen: 
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Jan 14, 2016 20:45
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To be fair you wouldn't have gotten further than the part where he calls Sealion a "brilliant jewel of military planning, just as one would expect from the German ubermensch!" without a hint of irony.
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Jan 14, 2016 22:47
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HerraS posted:To be fair you wouldn't have gotten further than the part where he calls Sealion a "brilliant jewel of military planning, just as one would expect from the German ubermensch!" without a hint of irony. Wait, you mean he was serious?
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Jan 14, 2016 22:53
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HerraS posted:To be fair you wouldn't have gotten further than the part where he calls Sealion a "brilliant jewel of military planning, just as one would expect from the German ubermensch!" without a hint of irony. Holy poo poo! The Germans never even took Malta and he's praising their half-assed Sealion plans?
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Jan 14, 2016 23:00
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HerraS posted:To be fair you wouldn't have gotten further than the part where he calls Sealion a "brilliant jewel of military planning, just as one would expect from the German ubermensch!" without a hint of irony. Well, actually, Sealion is the sort of brilliant jewel that I would expect to see come out of the Most Glorious (And Clean, Too!) German Military.
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Jan 14, 2016 23:05
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McNally posted:Wait, you mean he was serious?
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Jan 14, 2016 23:15
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Alright, someone's gotta find the book now.
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Jan 14, 2016 23:31
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HerraS posted:To be fair you wouldn't have gotten further than the part where he calls Sealion a "brilliant jewel of military planning, just as one would expect from the German ubermensch!" without a hint of irony. Nothing to do with ubermensch - just a question of being professional. Oh, well, they didn't expect much resistance. The German generals, that is. Adolf, of course, didn't understand poo poo. That said, it would be interesting to hear what you KNOW about Operation Sea Lion. Not just the usual feverish denial stuff....some real facts. (If you don't have any I recommend my book - https://www.fredleander.com). But, I warn you, it should be very frustrating for lovers of the Ancient Empire. Ah, you didn't know it's gone....? I suspect you know as little about Operation Sea Lion as you know about what happened with MacArthur and the Philippines. I can recommend another book: Peter Schenk - Unternehmen Seelöwe. You don't read German? Please....Dunkirk! After I have "Saved MacArthur" ( http://www.fredleander.com/saving-macarthur.php ) my next project is named: "Dunkirk - The Ultimate Betrayal". And I don't mean the French.....  ...Ooops, please don't start posting about Dunkirk...!And that Germany and Italy didn't take Malta is just to show what kind of idiots their dictators were. Just my opinion. It would have been even easier than invading the UK. Well, much easier....Ooops again, please don't start posting about Malta....or Gibraltar... Anyway, as I have stated a couple of times already I won't derail this thread - MacArthur has, after all, a distant connection with the subject in hand, that of the Superior Race securing their Co-Prosperity Sphere. I didn't draw the Sea Lion out of the cabinet. Not this time, anyway. But you guys are free to continue to wring out your despair....
fredleander fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Jan 14, 2016 |
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Jan 14, 2016 23:40
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This thread is already weirder than the whole last one put together. Please Grey, save us! Sink the enterprise!
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Jan 14, 2016 23:44
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lenoon posted:This thread is already weirder than the whole last one put together. This thread is getting exponentially more entertaining actually.
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Jan 14, 2016 23:45
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Jan 14, 2016 23:47
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fredleander posted:Nothing to do with ubermensch - just a question of being professional. Oh, well, they didn't expect much resistance. The German generals, that is. Adolf, of course, didn't understand poo poo. That said, it would be interesting to hear what you KNOW about Operation Sea Lion. Not just the usual feverish denial stuff....some real facts. (If you don't have any I recommend my book - https://www.fredleander.com). But, I warn you, it should be very frustrating for lovers of the Ancient Empire. Ah, you didn't know it's gone....? Fred I just wanna take this moment to seriously encourage you to take your claims to our resident military-historian thread so I can read their reactions: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3585027
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Jan 14, 2016 23:51
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fredleander posted:Nothing to do with ubermensch - just a question of being professional. Oh, well, they didn't expect much resistance. The German generals, that is. Adolf, of course, didn't understand poo poo. That said, it would be interesting to hear what you KNOW about Operation Sea Lion. Not just the usual feverish denial stuff....some real facts. (If you don't have any I recommend my book - https://www.fredleander.com). But, I warn you, it should be very frustrating for lovers of the Ancient Empire. Ah, you didn't know it's gone....? Please, refute the points in the following essay about the infesability of Sealion. http://www.philmasters.org.uk/SF/Sealion.htm
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