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Bongo Bill posted:Naboo isn't real. The most convenient place for them to land could be arbitrarily near or far. The important details are that the heroes are far from Queen Amidala but close to Boss Nass, and Boss Nass knows a shortcut that can get them there faster than the invaders. Thank you for proving my point. There's no rhyme or reason. What happens is just what George needs to happen.
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Jan 15, 2016 08:37
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rear end Catchcum posted:Thank you for proving my point. There's no rhyme or reason. What happens is just what George needs to happen. This is called storytelling.
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Jan 15, 2016 08:38
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One day I went to the store to buy food but I had no money but the store just gave it to me then I went home and I found a million dollars. Great story.
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Jan 15, 2016 08:40
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Feelin a strong breeze from all this hand waving.
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Jan 15, 2016 08:43
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Cnut the Great posted:The Separatists represent the Republic's self-centered, individualist id. Contrasted against them are the Loyalists, which represent the Republic's more conscientious, community-oriented superego. That's the whole thrust of Sidious's plot: Split the Republic into two factions--one Apollonian, one Dionysian--and then trick them into trying to destroy each other, instead of coexisting in equal balance with each other as they have for a millennium. This rift will result in the weakening of the Republic's two mediating ego mechanisms, the Jedi Order and the Senate. Sidious will then take advantage of the resulting weakness in order to destroy both institutions. He will then replace these institutions.....with himself. The interesting thing about the Separatists is they're a bunch of droids and aliens who are united by one of the Republic bluebloods. Like Padme, Sheev and Jimmy Smitts, Dooku is part of the ruling elite who benefit from an economic system essentially set up to enrich the core (Coruscant) and drain the periphery (Tattooine, Geonosis). Yet somehow this guy is the leader of what amounts to a revolt by that periphery because I guess he gives the meetings a touch of class ha ha.
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Jan 15, 2016 08:44
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:I don't know if you noticed this, but Greivous coughs because he is a pair of damaged lungs loosely attached to a metal frame. The Separatists are the underdogs and their technology sucks.
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Jan 15, 2016 08:46
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rear end Catchcum posted:The closest land was on the other side of the planet? It's a planetary invasion force. You don't attack the capital of a planet first. The movie shows you what's going on. There's landing ships spread out around the entire planet disgorging tanks and troops:   The Trade Federation's just steamrolling its way across the entire planet, starting with the weaker settlements and slowly making its way toward Theed. They've got the planet blockaded and they've disrupted all communications. There's nothing Amidala can do. Even if she knew exactly what was coming, she'd know it would be futile to launch any sort of defense. For the life of me I can't figure out why anyone would even bother to nitpick the plot of a freaking Star Wars movie....but what's even more baffling to me is how you can just so utterly fail at it. It ain't exactly difficult. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 08:50 on Jan 15, 2016 |
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Jan 15, 2016 08:47
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rear end Catchcum posted:One day I went to the store to buy food but I had no money but the store just gave it to me then I went home and I found a million dollars. Great story. The writer of a story can set up a scenario any way they want if they think it will make it more interesting. "The villains will reach the destination before the heroes do, but the heroes can take a shortcut" is a situation that creates tension in the form of an obstacle to overcome and a means to introduce further developments during the overcoming process. The scenario is also not a plot hole, because it does not contradict any other events in the story. No justification is required for the fact that the invasion does not use blitzkrieg tactics. Nor does it contradict any characterization; rather, it contributes to the understanding that Nute Gunray is patient and arrogant, and his droid army is tireless and thorough, because he is willing to take the time to make them march all the way across the continent. Bongo Bill fucked around with this message at 08:53 on Jan 15, 2016 |
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Jan 15, 2016 08:49
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These movies loving suck lol. Tfa is so good.
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Jan 15, 2016 08:54
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:I don't know if you noticed this, but Greivous coughs because he is a pair of damaged lungs loosely attached to a metal frame.
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Jan 15, 2016 08:55
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Elfgames posted:grievous coughs because mace windu crushes his human (whatever alien) lungs because he looks like a droid but you know jedi never use the force to attack. (anyone who can truely fight back) Mace Windu is the person who damaged his lungs, but he is still that thing he said.
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Jan 15, 2016 08:57
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rear end Catchcum posted:The characters and plot only serve whatever George wanted to happen at the given time. Literally every work of fiction you've ever consumed is like this, just replace 'George' with 'the writer/director/producer/programmer' (depending on the medium). Arguing that a universe should have consistent rules and then produce a story based on those rules is some Dungeons and Dragons poo poo, and not even the good kind of D&D where the DM will let you do cool and fun things because they're cool and fun. It's the kind where you get into an hour-long argument over whether a dragon's fire breath is hot enough to melt the steel beams holding up the Two Towers.
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Jan 15, 2016 09:00
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Bongo Bill posted:Mace Windu is the person who damaged his lungs, but he is still that thing he said. yes he is but that is not the reason he coughs.
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Jan 15, 2016 09:02
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Elfgames posted:yes he is but that is not the reason he coughs. He coughs because his lungs are damaged. The identity of the lung damager, while known, is not necessary for that explanation.
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Jan 15, 2016 09:07
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ungulateman posted:Arguing that a universe should have consistent rules and then produce a story based on those rules is some Dungeons and Dragons poo poo, and not even the good kind of D&D where the DM will let you do cool and fun things because they're cool and fun. That's not the right way to play D&D at all! It should be a true test of mental acuity and fortitude! 
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Jan 15, 2016 09:09
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ungulateman posted:Arguing that a universe should have consistent rules and then produce a story based on those rules is some Dungeons and Dragons poo poo, and not even the good kind of D&D where the DM will let you do cool and fun things because they're cool and fun. It's the kind where you get into an hour-long argument over whether a dragon's fire breath is hot enough to melt the steel beams holding up the Two Towers. This is why I'm not thrilled about the MCU and its influence. Too much focus on canon, continuity, and consistency is boring and stultifying. I want a comic-book movie with the creative abandon of a Grant Morrison run, without it having to be reigned in to fit the franchise plan. Or Star Wars spin-offs that take on their own diverse styles and tones- imagine a movie about Palpatine's turn to the dark side done in the style of Beyond the Black Rainbow or something.
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Jan 15, 2016 09:14
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Elfgames posted:grievous coughs because mace windu crushes his human (whatever alien) lungs because he looks like a droid but you know jedi never use the force to attack. (anyone who can truely fight back) That's in a little EU side-story. In the films themselves, Greivous is a much more fun character. He's a dude who got really badly hosed up - presumably by the Jedi, during the clone war - and was stuck in that metal exoskeleton. Naturally, his goal is revenge. But the fun part with the character is that, because he's this crazy-powerful cyborg, the Seperatists put him in charge of the Droid Army - and Greivous hates it. He totally resents the position, and the droid soldiers who serve him. This is why he styles himself after a Jedi, and engages Obiwan in an 'honorable' 1-on-1 battle to the death. The joke of the whole sequence is that Grievous' Jedi-mimicry hamstrings him, while Obiwan cheats. First, the clone soldiers interrupt the fight - and then Obiwan pulls out a gun. If Greivous had embraced his droid-like qualities, instead of making some kind of personal statement, he would have won.
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Jan 15, 2016 09:19
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Hey, the one EU story I know! Grevious' ship crashed somehow which left him in a pretty awful, hosed up state. Palps decided to use this opportunity to test out his new cyborg suit thing for his soon be named Emperor Palaptine Surgical Reconstruction Center. He lied to Grevious, blaming it on the Jedi as Palpy does, and that's what sent Grevious into a murderous rage, hellbent on killing all Jedi. He's living a lie.
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Jan 15, 2016 09:34
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CelticPredator posted:Hey, the one EU story I know! It's even more fun than that. Basically Grievous is from a terrible tiny planet in the rear end-end of nowhere that got invaded by some assholes and had been fighting a decades-long war. This was where he made his bones as a badass warlord dude, a hero to his hosed up afro-lizardman society. As it happened, Grievous started winning too hard and was on the verge of finally beating his race's archenemies when the Republic intervened and forced them into a peace settlement. Grievous' people did not want to try the fruits of peace so the Republic blockaded their planet and a bunch of people starved, and to survive Grievous became a mercenary for the Banking Clan (these are the fat green guys with the weird poo poo in their faces at the Separatist meetings). Once again he was basically too good because that was when they decided to gently caress him up and blame the Republic so he'd become a lightsaber wielding cyborg badass general for the war the Separatists were about to spark off.
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Jan 15, 2016 09:41
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:That's in a little EU side-story. In the films themselves, Greivous is a much more fun character. I also think it's an intentional choice, by Lucas, to make the two "heroes" on the Separatist side somewhat visibly pathetic----Dooku is insaneo old, maybe the oldest dude in Star Wars, and while he's got an impressive voice and look there's a subtext they want you to understand from his age and title that he's on The Wrong Side of History, that what he's fighting for is basically a doomed cause, which makes him a perfect patsy for Palpatine. Grievous is essentially a Pontiac Aztek to Darth Vader's comfortable high-performance LaCrosse, a beta version of the same Robocop-style cyborgization carried out on some hapless alien ethnic, and his life support system is really lovely or whatever. He bravely fights on and he managed to take out a few Jedi but he has to keep running until he finally gets cornered and put down like a dog.
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Jan 15, 2016 09:48
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um Darth Vader was not comfortable. Every second was paaaain. Not to mention the never ending beeping button!
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Jan 15, 2016 09:59
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Well, Darth's itchy underwear isn't G canon but the wicked cough and the clinking noises Grievous's body makes are so I think I know what G Luc was going for 
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Jan 15, 2016 10:01
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:That's in a little EU side-story. In the films themselves, Greivous is a much more fun character. i don't disagree with respect to grevious but it does show part of the reason anikin falls to the dark side, windu is a sith. anikin is still firmly on the side of the jedi, he even rats out the guy who can save his love then mace windu strolls in and suppresses palpitine has the guy begging for his life and because of his feer and anger is still going to execute him without trial. and this is not a one time mistake it is his nature.
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Jan 15, 2016 10:03
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Harime Nui posted:maybe the oldest dude in Star Wars,  second oldest
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Jan 15, 2016 10:05
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Ya'll forgot Maz.
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Jan 15, 2016 10:09
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Who the hell is Maz
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Jan 15, 2016 10:11
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Harime Nui posted:The interesting thing about the Separatists is they're a bunch of droids and aliens who are united by one of the Republic bluebloods. Like Padme, Sheev and Jimmy Smitts, Dooku is part of the ruling elite who benefit from an economic system essentially set up to enrich the core (Coruscant) and drain the periphery (Tattooine, Geonosis). Yet somehow this guy is the leader of what amounts to a revolt by that periphery because I guess he gives the meetings a touch of class ha ha. The interesting thing about the Separatists is their droids. Because the Separatists are supposed to be the Republic's individualistic, organic, Dionysian id, and yet they make use of a centrally controlled army of mechanical soldiers. But the funny thing is, this actually makes sense: Since the nature of the Droid Army is contrary to the Separatists' own fundamental nature , it represents a weak point which can be exploited. And indeed that's how the Trade Federation is defeated in Episode I, and how their successors the Separatists are defeated in Episode III: their droid army is shut down in one fell swoop after the central command system controlling them becomes compromised (ironically, both times by Anakin Skywalker). Similarly, the communitarian, utilitarian, Apollonian superego of the Republic, represented by the Loyalist government, somewhat paradoxically makes use of an army of organic clones whose main benefit is in their ability to act creatively as individuals. This clone army ends up being the Loyalists' weak point just as the droids ended up being the Separatists'. Because the clones were individuals, the Jedi came to genuinely trust them and consider them their friends. This ends up being the downfall of the democratic Loyalists, as their last champions, the Jedi Knights, are gunned down by their comrades after a verbal command from Darth Sidious turns the clones unexpectedly into automatons. It all ties into the concept of yin and yang, represented by the taijitu symbol:  Both the Separatists and the Loyalists contain contradictions within themselves, just as yin contains yang and yang contains yin. This is actually a good thing, because it gives each faction an edge over the other. Thus, neither one can ever fully dominate, and balance is maintained between them. In Episode I, the balance of the universe has not yet been upset. Both factions still contain contradictions. The Naboo, representing the Apollonian faction of the Republic, nevertheless utilize starships with distinctly Dionysian (artistic, organic) design sensibilities:  Likewise, the Trade Federation, representing the Dionysian faction of the Republic, nevertheless utilize starship with distinctly Apollonian (technological, utilitarian) design sensibilities:  Neither side deals in absolutes. Everything is balanced. But then the war comes, and suddenly the balanced, complementary symbol of the taijitu is twisted into an absolutist dichotomy with one rigid dividing line between absolute light and absolute dark:  Thus the Loyalists reject the Dionysian aesthetic of the Naboo and instead adopt the aesthetic of the Trade Federation, becoming fully Apollonian in the process:   By the time of Episode III, we see that both sides have now morphed into absolutist caricatures of themselves. The Apollonian Loyalists now utilize starships with increasingly Apollonian design sensibilities...  ...and the Dionysian Separatists now utilize starships with increasingly Dionysian design sensibilities:   By the end of Episode III, the Separatists have been conquered, replaced by Dionysian Rebels with Dionysian starships...  ...and the Apollonian Loyalists have been usurped, replaced by Apollonian Imperials with Apollonian starships:  It's the same old conflict being waged between the same two absolutist factions--only now the Dionysians are the virtuous ones and the Apollonians the wicked ones, whereas before the inverse was true. Despite the inherent virtue of their cause, the Rebels' struggle is doomed to fail so long as they strive to overpower and replace their enemies with the use of force. Something else must happen in order for peace and justice to truly prevail. And so it isn't until Darth Vader/Anakin Skyalker--the half-mechanical/half-organic, half-Apollonian/half-Dionysian being--restores balance to the universe by destroying Sidious--the cancerous sower of discord between Apollo and Dionysus--that the absolutist factions of Rebel and Empire can be dissolved, and the galaxy once again united in the complementary, non-absolutist form of the taijitu. Anyway, I know all this may sound kind out of "out there" to some people, but it's actually straight out of Nietzsche's The Birth of Tragedy: Wikipedia posted:Originally educated as a philologist, Nietzsche discusses the history of the tragic form and introduces an intellectual dichotomy between the Dionysian and the Apollonian (very loosely: reality as disordered and undifferentiated by forms versus reality as ordered and differentiated by forms). Nietzsche claims life always involves a struggle between these two elements, each battling for control over the existence of humanity. In Nietzsche's words, "Wherever the Dionysian prevailed, the Apollonian was checked and destroyed.... wherever the first Dionysian onslaught was successfully withstood, the authority and majesty of the Delphic god Apollo exhibited itself as more rigid and menacing than ever." Yet neither side ever prevails due to each containing the other in an eternal, natural check, or balance. While it's almost certain that Lucas himself has read Nietzsche, it's also worth nothing that Nietzsche was a huge and central influence on Joseph Campbell's The Hero with a Thousand Faces and on Stanley Kubrick's 2001: A Space Odyssey--both being, of course, huge influences on George Lucas and on Star Wars in particular. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 11:03 on Jan 15, 2016 |
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Jan 15, 2016 10:57
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Elfgames posted:i don't disagree with respect to grevious but it does show part of the reason anikin falls to the dark side, windu is a sith. anikin is still firmly on the side of the jedi, he even rats out the guy who can save his love then mace windu strolls in and suppresses palpitine has the guy begging for his life and because of his feer and anger is still going to execute him without trial. and this is not a one time mistake it is his nature. I wouldn't go as far as saying Windu's a Sith, but he's very representative of what the Jedi are willing to do in order to preserve the Republic which they've grown inextricably attached to. I remember reading the Visual Guide as a kid, where it explicitly mentions that he uses a lightsaber form that 'comes dangerously close to the Dark side' (???). Even if we stick to what the films show us, he has a purple lightsaber. Yes, the 'real' reason he has a purple lightsaber is because Samuel L. Jackson wanted a purple lightsaber, but I wouldn't be surprised if he'd actually decided on purple specifically because it's a mixture of red and blue. It feels way too on the nose to be a coincidence. (And depending on how dead you think the author is, it might not matter that it's a coincidence.)
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Jan 15, 2016 11:02
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ungulateman posted:I wouldn't go as far as saying Windu's a Sith, but he's very representative of what the Jedi are willing to do in order to preserve the Republic which they've grown inextricably attached to. I remember reading the Visual Guide as a kid, where it explicitly mentions that he uses a lightsaber form that 'comes dangerously close to the Dark side' (???). Even if we stick to what the films show us, he has a purple lightsaber. Hell, look at his name. What did some people in the middle ages do when the Church forbade them to shed blood? Did they attempt peace instead? No. They got a blunt weapon to use instead. A mace.
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Jan 15, 2016 11:53
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Harime Nui posted:Who the hell is Maz neutral owner of the mirror equivalent of the Mos cantina, CGI creation which manages and protects a bar in nowhere which protects and sustains the last bastion of practical aliens, disciple of the Light Side, hundreds of years old, Chewbacca's GF, Star Wars character in a Star Wars movie
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Jan 15, 2016 12:58
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Why would there be a bar in the middle of nowhere, I mean Mos Eisley is a spaceport, a bar makes sense but
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Jan 15, 2016 12:59
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Harime Nui posted:Why would there be a bar in the middle of nowhere, I mean Mos Eisley is a spaceport, a bar makes sense but Because Star Wars consists of more than one planet. It's her home so it doesn't need to be profitable, she is entirely opposed to living as a hermit in Yoda's style (notice that in her concept art she adorns herself in material history). She's a follower of the Light Side that approaches her faith in a way different from Yoda, but still requires spiritual solitude for self-reflection; so her nowhere-planet home is a bar offering valuable insight and conversion. Also, you know, people like a nice view while unwinding.
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Jan 15, 2016 13:05
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What is she covered in pop bottle caps throughout the decades or.....?
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Jan 15, 2016 13:07
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In five of the image designs she's sporting a helmet reminiscent of those from past events (most obvious being the one similar to an RFT or AT-AT driver's helmet), a common feature of six of the designs is a stuffed backpack with an old antennae sticking out (pick up news? Broadcast to pilots her bar? Old piece of junk she found?), in one design she sports a mechanical arm, being the third character (besides Grievous) to be sympathetic to droids while sporting robotic prosthesis. This all contributes to a character who follows the same path of Yoda, but accepts and is immersed by the events around her, emphasizing her role in the movie as a sumpathetic figure who acts to immerse one of the protagonists into Star Wars. Just some 7 AM observations, I'm sure there is more worth picking out. TFA is a dum dum movie with nothing to observe and i hate it cuz SW fans like it Neurolimal fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Jan 15, 2016 |
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Jan 15, 2016 13:23
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Hold on, does this she have a beard in the finished movie Cuz one of those character designs definitely is sporting a beard
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Jan 15, 2016 13:26
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Those designs aren't in the movie tho
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Jan 15, 2016 13:28
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J.J missin out on a chance to be truly bold with that bearded lady design
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Jan 15, 2016 13:30
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Harime Nui posted:Hold on, does this she have a beard in the finished movie Unfortunately no, that would have been pretty cool though. These were the designs before they realized time was running too thin to make another expressive puppet that could handle Maz's scenes, the finished design plays up her role of observation and advice: 
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Jan 15, 2016 13:31
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Actually, let's talk a bit about why I won't see Force Awakens This is why I won't see Force Awakens https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pd6yO-jBRo It's just one theater, right? Well my one ticket for that one theater should mean a lot less. gently caress Disney for this seriously.
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Jan 15, 2016 13:34
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Nessus posted:Mace is also quite happy to use violence - he leads the Jedi attack on Geonosis (which kills a lot of Jedi - a lot more Jedi than would have died if they'd done nothing), he's aggressively willing to take action against Palpatine, and so on. Now, of course, by the time he's at the last ditch it would have been quite a good idea to use violence on Palpatine and cut him up into large chunks, because the Jedi are not fundamentally pacifists. But he's also frightened and alienated Anakin. So he gets disarmed and thrown out a window. He also got tossed out the windu  but really he had the emporor cornered he could have captured him and taken him to trial showing his trust in anikin but his fear of palpatine's power and his anger at being used blinded him
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Jan 15, 2016 13:42
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