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The real question is whether or not you can do that with Eviscerators. Though to be honest, you probably can. If memory serves, they're only Unbalanced (which still allows them to do that sort of fun multi-attack stuff) and not Unwieldy (like Power Fists), which would prevent them from doing so.MaliciousOnion posted:They qualify it with "if the original attack scored three or more degrees of success." Yeah, because that's quite the buff to an Eviscerator. Makes you just want to forget about all that Power Fist nonsense, Power Fists are for babbys.
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Dec 29, 2015 00:34
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There's got to be some reason to take chain weapon training.
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Dec 29, 2015 00:37
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goatface posted:There's got to be some reason to take chain weapon training. That would be my character in Asehujiko's game. He is a dual wielder with chain swords and swift attack (or lightning attack, whichever one is an extra attack every other DoS). I get to roll damage dice so many times between tearing and multiple hits from multiple weapons, that it is almost guaranteed that I get one crit each attack. If he is teaming up with the other character with double team, most things don't survive one attack volley. Screw power weapons.
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Dec 29, 2015 00:46
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LuiCypher posted:The real question is whether or not you can do that with Eviscerators. Though to be honest, you probably can. If memory serves, they're only Unbalanced (which still allows them to do that sort of fun multi-attack stuff) and not Unwieldy (like Power Fists), which would prevent them from doing so. Power fists can swift attack too. Unwieldy only prevents Lightning Attacks. Both Unwieldy and Unbalanced prevent Lightning Attack. The former prevents all parries and the latter is only -10 to parry. As far as Chainsword vs power, statistically speaking a chainsword is more likely to roll a 10 on any given attack and tearing gives you a higher statistical average roll on the 1d10, though not enough to really compensate for the loss of flat +damage and armor pen on the power sword. If the chain weapons had like +1 damage compared to what they have now I could see a chain weapon being generally as useful on lightly armored enemies. From there the Chain Weapon Specialist talent from the Only War supplementals would help push it over the edge. I feel like the worst rule that has yet to gently caress off from the 40k rpgs is power weapons breaking non-power weapons on parry like 75% of the time. It's doubly lovely when the rule is being used against you if the big bad guy has a power sword and you've just got chain or low tech weapons and are engaged in melee. Edit - To be fair when looking at Chain vs Power weapons: if you ignore the power field thing the Eviscerator totally hangs with pretty much any power weapon in damage capacity. It's a melee weapon that totally flies as an anti-tank weapon in a bigger capacity than even the powerfist. On a good hit you're looking at a statistical average damage of 14 + your strength mod with pen 18. Razor sharp/swift attack is generally pretty easy to trigger on tanks because of the size bonuses and charge/full out attack/aim/whatever other combat bonuses. Add in melee talents and it only goes up from there. DeathSandwich fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Dec 29, 2015 |
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Dec 29, 2015 01:50
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Do they still have the thing where natural weapons don't break? If so, its time for kung fu/unarmed master fightan'
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Dec 29, 2015 02:03
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Ronwayne posted:Do they still have the thing where natural weapons don't break? If so, its time for kung fu/unarmed master fightan' Yes. In Dark Heresy 2 with unarmed master you have Deadly Natural Weapons, count as armed as all times (so you can parry and can do so vs power weapons due to DNW) and your unarmed attacks count as having tearing. It's not as good as chainsweapons under normal circumstances, but is a great backup weapon if you get disarmed or need to go super subtle since what's more subtle than being completely weaponless. It's less good in Only War and the previous games because there's 2 talents involved, you can't parry, and they don't have Tearing. DeathSandwich fucked around with this message at 02:16 on Dec 29, 2015 |
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Dec 29, 2015 02:08
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Things breaking on Power Weapons is definitely a hold over from the "gently caress you" GW school of things. The note should be like the one for Natural Weapons where they only break due to injury or because it would be cool. Which mostly means the players are snapping swords left and right and chopping up Kroot beaks and if they roll really well and it fits the narrative maybe they'll chop off the bad guy's arm and call an early close to the fight.
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Dec 29, 2015 04:11
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If you don't make a player comically lose both hands if he tries to parry a power sword with his forearms then you are straight up DMing wrong. I don't even care what the rules say.
Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 04:24 on Dec 29, 2015 |
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Dec 29, 2015 04:21
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Mechafunkzilla posted:If you don't make a player comically lose both hands if he tries to parry a power sword with his forearms then you are straight up DMing wrong. I don't even care what the rules say. Then he gets augmetic hands that generate a power field of their own.
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Dec 29, 2015 04:23
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Mechafunkzilla posted:If you don't make a player comically lose both hands if he tries to parry a power sword with his forearms then you are straight up DMing wrong. I don't even care what the rules say. In my mind's eye, a unarmed master parrying a power sword would parry by catching the attacker by the wrist and not trying to stop a power sword with their forearms. An unarmed player attacking someone who is parring with a power sword, however...
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Dec 29, 2015 04:30
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It's weeaboo fightan magics at this point,,so you're slapping the sword away with your palm, stopping the blade by catching the flat between your palms, or, for max weeb, just standing there and catching the blade between two fingers.
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Dec 29, 2015 06:18
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With regards to weeaboo fightan magicks, there literally is a Slaanesh psyker power in Tome of Fate where, when you use it, you might as well start shouting "AT-TA-TA-TA-TA-TA-TA-TA-TA-TA-TA-TA" like Kenshiro from Fist of the North Star. Yes, you have to stand completely still. Yes, you have to be dual-wielding. But you can make Lightning Attacks with both weapons at a +10 bonus all day, every day.
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Dec 29, 2015 15:44
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Is there a reason why a Power Blade is the exact same rarity as a Power Sword?
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Jan 15, 2016 18:26
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Hunt11 posted:Is there a reason why a Power Blade is the exact same rarity as a Power Sword? Because FFG can't figure out that most people will go for the weapon that does more damage if all other things are equal
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Jan 15, 2016 18:58
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Hunt11 posted:Is there a reason why a Power Blade is the exact same rarity as a Power Sword? I think the idea is the "blade" variants are the ones you can mount on a basic weapon to use as a bayonet. It's kind of an edge case but useful if you do a lot of basic weapon shooting then close to melee and don't have quick Draw. Something like a Grenade Launcher to soften up an enemy so you can close the distance and stab them in the dick with your chain/power rifleknife.
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Jan 15, 2016 19:21
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There's loads of stuff like that in Rogue Trader and it's awful, there's usually an objective best choice in every category of item. Often it's not even close, one option just blows everything else out of the water for same availability (sometimes they beat rarer items too). Luckily Rogue Trader has less in person fights than the other 40k RPGs so ultra fighting minmaxing isn't absolutely necessary for everybody so a guy with diamond encrusted las pistols can probably still have a good time.
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Jan 15, 2016 22:48
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And then there is yet another dude who took the stormbolter with his free acquisition.
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Jan 15, 2016 23:37
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EthanSteele posted:There's loads of stuff like that in Rogue Trader and it's awful, there's usually an objective best choice in every category of item. Often it's not even close, one option just blows everything else out of the water for same availability (sometimes they beat rarer items too). Luckily Rogue Trader has less in person fights than the other 40k RPGs so ultra fighting minmaxing isn't absolutely necessary for everybody so a guy with diamond encrusted las pistols can probably still have a good time. I refuse to go for "best weapon" and try to grab the most thematic. I usually feel totally underpowered.
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Jan 16, 2016 00:03
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But you win every moral battle.
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Jan 16, 2016 02:00
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FireSight posted:I refuse to go for "best weapon" and try to grab the most thematic. I usually feel totally underpowered. Weapons are overrated, two of my players went for Henchlings as their free acquisition. One squad of best quality Surenos, and one company of void-suited Engineseers. Not that the weapons everyone else took didn't come in handy, murder is one of the most in-demand exports in 40k, but just not as fun as having a dozen elite gangsters sing a gregorian chorus for your entry, or sending pirate engineers down mile-long grappling lines to hack the enemy ships life support systems and vent all the air from their ship.
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Jan 16, 2016 03:16
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Ambi posted:Weapons are overrated, two of my players went for Henchlings as their free acquisition. One squad of best quality Surenos, and one company of void-suited Engineseers. Not that the weapons everyone else took didn't come in handy, murder is one of the most in-demand exports in 40k, but just not as fun as having a dozen elite gangsters sing a gregorian chorus for your entry, or sending pirate engineers down mile-long grappling lines to hack the enemy ships life support systems and vent all the air from their ship. I suppose still requiring a void suit is why the enginseers are only henchlings. Also, murder-servitors are much more cost-effective. And a hell of a lot easier to replace.
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Jan 16, 2016 03:53
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Oh they got those at ship creation, along with Servitor Reclaimation Facilities, but sometimes you want to take a ship and not have to redecorate to get rid of gore and/or deal with still-active murder servos. Whenever they just wanted to gently caress over another ship, they fired murder servitor breaching pods at them. The alternative hijacking route was the board to ship themselves and take out the command staff & captain, then give the crew the old "join or die" over the PA system.
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Jan 16, 2016 04:08
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Ambi posted:Oh they got those at ship creation, along with Servitor Reclaimation Facilities, but sometimes you want to take a ship and not have to redecorate to get rid of gore and/or deal with still-active murder servos. Whenever they just wanted to gently caress over another ship, they fired murder servitor breaching pods at them. The alternative hijacking route was the board to ship themselves and take out the command staff & captain, then give the crew the old "join or die" over the PA system. Do the breaching pods have Reclamation Facilities aboard them? Launch 30 murder-servitors, get 300 back.
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Jan 16, 2016 04:12
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The Lone Badger posted:Do the breaching pods have Reclamation Facilities aboard them? Launch 30 murder-servitors, get 300 back. They also held gladitorial combats, where the surviving officers of the enemy ship and any crewmember who wanted to become an officer of the new ship got to duel to the death. One such NPC rose from enemy Quartermaster to Vice-Captain to Planetary Governor, along with the title of General Storm-Pig, through flagrant cheating in the number of las pistols she brought to a fistfight. I think the final count was something like 5, but it was allowed because she won anyway, and the rules stated were "no weapons that I can see". This was also the means of gaining a position in the Rogue Trader's personal guard, fighting an existing member in hand-to-hand, but I don't think any challenger managed to win one of those bouts. Reigning arena champion was Los Tiburon, the shark of the land!
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Jan 16, 2016 04:42
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Ronwayne posted:And then there is yet another dude who took the stormbolter with his free acquisition. Are stormbolters bad in RT?
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Jan 16, 2016 06:59
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Rather the opposite, given that RTs combat is still All Auto, All the Time.
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Jan 16, 2016 07:49
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Before I start rambling how FFG needs to do RT 2E, I'll just ask knowledgeble goons if DH2 was a marked improvement over DH1
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Jan 16, 2016 15:58
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DH2 is basically OW which is a huge improvement over the older stuff so I'd say yes
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Jan 16, 2016 16:29
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Azhais posted:Are stormbolters bad in RT? They're excellent, by and far probably the best basic weapon there is, which is why they get picked to the point of tiresomeness. Its the issue with the absolute best choice being repetitive after you've seen it several times, such as the roided out Geneator build.
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Jan 16, 2016 17:29
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What kind of incompetent DM doesn't just drop a boulder on people who powergame?
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Jan 16, 2016 19:37
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The one that doesn't want to deal with OOC drama. Also the proper response is talking it out with the player OOC, not just slamming them IC.
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Jan 16, 2016 19:47
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Storm bolters are silly. Tell them they can have one as long as they're prepared for everyone they meet wanting to know why they're carrying a first company relic, and if they can "borrow" it.
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Jan 16, 2016 20:23
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goatface posted:Storm bolters are silly. Tell them they can have one as long as they're prepared for everyone they meet wanting to know why they're carrying a first company relic, and if they can "borrow" it. Even more silly is the fact that it's a human sized one! Why did the astartes make them?
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Jan 16, 2016 20:37
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Clearly they were made by hereteks and anyone carrying one should be purged. edit - I did like the theory that RT bolt weapons were actually the astartes size down. So a bolter is actually a retooled bolt pistol, and a heavy bolter is a bolter with a belt feed. The only "new" design is the human sized bolt pistol, which they had to strip full auto from so it wouldn't destroy itself or the user. Then an astartes heavy bolter would just be completely unmanageable without good power armour or a solid mounting. goatface fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Jan 16, 2016 |
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Jan 16, 2016 20:49
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The Storm Bolter design being short and double-barrelled always looks like like there should be a sweet Storm Bolt Pistol that's like a sawed off shotgun. You've got to reload it after every attack, but it shoots out a burst of bolt shells like buckshot from a shotgun. The kind of thing a hillbilly Techpriest might use, you know to go with your Beverley Hillbillies Rogue Trader campaign.
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Jan 16, 2016 20:56
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Jan 16, 2016 21:00
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FireSight posted:Even more silly is the fact that it's a human sized one! Why did the astartes make them? I mean, more silly is how Bolt Pistols, Bolters, and Storm Bolters all share the same basic profile with very little to actually differentiate them. Capacity doesn't really matter outside of Only War or anywhere you track supplies, and Storm is just better because of full auto, though iirc Only War changed it so full-auto gives -10 rather than +20 to BS tests, which was another Rogue Trader/early 40k RPG weirdness.
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Jan 16, 2016 21:02
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Mechafunkzilla posted:What kind of incompetent DM doesn't just drop a boulder on people who powergame?
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Jan 16, 2016 21:27
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Ambi posted:Mars makes human-pattern ones, and the Adeptas Sororitas makes use of them as well, it's just that most of them are Astartes because few non-power armor people can use what is essentially two bolters welded together. Can I twin-link storm bolters? 
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Jan 16, 2016 21:37
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twin-linked-storm-bolter-combi weapon I think that becomes one of those hexa-guns they have in sponsons of some bad tanks.
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Jan 16, 2016 21:58
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