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C-Euro posted:I'm with the people who day that Wizards should actually un-ban stuff as well, instead of just stifling any deck that gets too popular. Has Wizards actually been burned by anything they've banned and then later un-banned in any format? Wild Nactl hasn't been oppressive in Modern since coming back and I haven't heard a peep from GGT since it got brought back. valakut and bitterblossom were also unbanned and neither of them have gone on to dominate (though maybe now is valakut's time to shine) 0
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Jan 16, 2016 16:34
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L.o.l.Sheridan Lardner posted:I’ll be publishing a more formal Banlist analysis next week, but wanted to put up this article as a place for our users to discuss the update in the comment section. Also, as a place for me to legitimately vent my frustrations with this sickening announcement. Sheridan Lardner posted:If it sounds like I’m angry it’s because yes, I’m angry. I’m mad because I love this format and regardless of the metagame justifications for this banning (which are thin, at best, and arbitrary, at worst), Splinter Twin‘s demise sends a message to players: Modern is unsafe.
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Jan 16, 2016 16:35
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Correct me if I'm wrong but I scrolled to the bottom to find out who this guy was and it says "social science data analysis." Is this something legit like statistics and if so why isn't it said that way? And if not what bullshit degree is this?
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Jan 16, 2016 16:37
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I believe all formats should remain unchanged to protect players' valuable investments. That is clearly what matters most in the era of MTGfinance.
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Jan 16, 2016 16:38
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I'm actually far more interested in modern now that twin is banned than I have ever been. Grixis control is a fantastic deck in modern, it didn't need an "oops I won" factor on top of the best control shell in the format.
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Jan 16, 2016 16:38
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sarmhan posted:I believe all formats should remain unchanged to protect players' valuable investments. That is clearly what matters most in the era of MTGfinance. But if some decks get pushed out by stronger decks then their cards become less valuable.
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Jan 16, 2016 16:39
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:But if some decks get pushed out by stronger decks then their cards become less valuable.  WOTC should just print less powerful cards to protect investments and ensure format variety.
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Jan 16, 2016 16:45
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Stupid.
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Jan 16, 2016 16:48
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:*Stares at hands* I was joking. Every time I said it I was joking. I never once thought they'd actually do it. Sorry for your loss(?) Molybdenum posted:valakut and bitterblossom were also unbanned and neither of them have gone on to dominate (though maybe now is valakut's time to shine) I didn't even remember that either of these were ever banned which I guess kind of proves my point.
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Jan 16, 2016 16:49
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I would say decks that rely on 1-2 cards in order to win have the possibility to be banned out of existence. Twin and Bloom could win without those pieces but it would only happen through great skill of the pilot and some luck of the opponent draws. Decks like Affinity, Burn, or Jund can have stuff banned from them but don't destroy the core, just slow it. well, banning Goyf may kill Jund/Azban but I doubt they would do that. It should also be noted they have never banned an expensive card in Modern except in the original ban list. GoutPatrol fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Jan 16, 2016 |
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Jan 16, 2016 16:56
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I'd be willing to bet that most Twin players will just switch to Kiki-Jiki and win a turn later. That is, the ones who aren't freaking out right now and assuming their pile of some of the most powerful cards in Modern are somehow worthless without Twin. Turn 4 Twin wins happen, but most of the games I've seen the players wait to make sure that the combo won't get disrupted and hold up a couple extra lands for Remand or something.
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Jan 16, 2016 17:04
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It's effectively what people wanted anyway. Banning deceiver exarch, banning twin, same diff. Now you can actually bolt the offending critter dead unlike before. That's what people wanted, right?
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Jan 16, 2016 17:10
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Emerson Cod posted:I'd be willing to bet that most Twin players will just switch to Kiki-Jiki and win a turn later. That is, the ones who aren't freaking out right now and assuming their pile of some of the most powerful cards in Modern are somehow worthless without Twin. Turn 4 Twin wins happen, but most of the games I've seen the players wait to make sure that the combo won't get disrupted and hold up a couple extra lands for Remand or something. Mmm yes the card that dies to bolt in the bolt format where everyone runs bolts is a perfect substitute Bolts E: I was loving joking, Wizards TheKingofSprings fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Jan 16, 2016 |
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Jan 16, 2016 17:21
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Call me crazy, but if I'm going to post a video of me flushing cards down the toilet (or attempting to, anyway) on the Internet, I'm going to clean my toilet first so that the world doesn't know how loving disgusting my living space is.
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Jan 16, 2016 17:35
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What do we refer to Modern as if it's not "eternal" and it's not "non-rotating"
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Jan 16, 2016 17:40
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Nehru the Damaja posted:What do we refer to Modern as if it's not "eternal" and it's not "non-rotating"  Standard is rotating, Legacy is eternal, Modern is .
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Jan 16, 2016 17:42
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Emerson Cod posted:I'd be willing to bet that most Twin players will just switch to Kiki-Jiki and win a turn later. That is, the ones who aren't freaking out right now and assuming their pile of some of the most powerful cards in Modern are somehow worthless without Twin. Turn 4 Twin wins happen, but most of the games I've seen the players wait to make sure that the combo won't get disrupted and hold up a couple extra lands for Remand or something. This is untrue. Kiki Jiki is terrible in Twin.
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Jan 16, 2016 17:43
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GoutPatrol posted:Ah yes, the "only blue decks are interactive" argument Decks deploying powerful linear strategies without any interest or concern for what the opponent is doing is actually a problem in Modern and is only going to get worse once you remove the only realistic tempo/control - esque strategy from the format.
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Jan 16, 2016 17:48
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Standard is rotating, Legacy is eternal, Modern is New thread title please. In all seriousness, I thought there was a twin deck that popped up in Legacy not too long ago. Seems like a waste - apart from obvious reasons - to literally flush those cards down the toilet.
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Jan 16, 2016 17:52
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Sarcastro posted:Call me crazy, but if I'm going to post a video of me flushing cards down the toilet (or attempting to, anyway) on the Internet, I'm going to clean my toilet first so that the world doesn't know how loving disgusting my living space is. You're not crazy my friend. I'm enjoying the bans because watching adults throw hissy fits is fun.
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Jan 16, 2016 17:54
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GoutPatrol posted:Ah yes, the "only blue decks are interactive" argument Only blue decks are interactive against a turn 3 Karn
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Jan 16, 2016 17:55
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TheKingofSprings posted:Only blue decks are interactive against a turn 3 Karn There's always Thoughtseize. Plus any deck can run Wasteland if you're playing a good format.
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Jan 16, 2016 17:58
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Hellsau posted:There's always Thoughtseize. Plus any deck can run Wasteland if you're playing a good format. They ripped it off the top
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Jan 16, 2016 17:59
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I never played Twin, but I started building Tron because UG Tron was one of my favorite Standard decks ever and I still had the lands. I wish there were different bans, maybe Exarch and Pestermite, so that Twin's manabase was shaken up having to play the 1GU or 2W guy instead. Would that have made the deck more fair?
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Jan 16, 2016 17:59
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Hellsau posted:There's always Thoughtseize. Plus any deck can run Wasteland if you're playing a good format. If the discussion is literally "removing Splinter Twin from Modern makes Modern a less interactive format Modern Modern Modern Modern" why would you say "yes but Legacy"
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Jan 16, 2016 18:01
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BJPaskoff posted:I never played Twin, but I started building Tron because UG Tron was one of my favorite Standard decks ever and I still had the lands. I wish there were different bans, maybe Exarch and Pestermite, so that Twin's manabase was shaken up having to play the 1GU or 2W guy instead. Would that have made the deck more fair? An Exarch ban alone would've been enough, doubling up on pestermites opens them up to bolts and needing to splash a colour severely weakens their Blood Moons and ability to run utility lands.
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Jan 16, 2016 18:03
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Tempo doesn't go away with Twin, it just doesn't have an "Oh, I win." card; I'm intrigued to see what decks pop up.
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Jan 16, 2016 18:07
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bhsman posted:Tempo doesn't go away with Twin, it just doesn't have an "Oh, I win." card; I'm intrigued to see what decks pop up. Tempo now gets to die slowly to Tron because it's become a fair deck
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Jan 16, 2016 18:08
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TheKingofSprings posted:Tempo now gets to die slowly to Tron because it's become a fair deck We'll just have to see.
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Jan 16, 2016 18:09
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If abusing Eldrazi lands in Modern becomes the next big thing after OGW, could Expedtion Map get the axe for enabling both it and Tron? How much would losing Map hurt Tron's consistency?
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Jan 16, 2016 18:16
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bhsman posted:We'll just have to see. Bans haven't really increased variety in the way people are hoping. Either they tone down the power of a deck so that it makes up less of the meta-game like the way DRS bans toned down Jund (which is good), or they make an archetype disappear entirely the way a Nacatl ban killed zoo (which is bad). I can't think of a single time a ban has suddenly led to the flowering of new decks. It's almost always new cards that bring archetypes from Tier 2 to Tier 1 or back from the grave.
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Jan 16, 2016 18:16
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I got excited at 330 new posts but it just turned out to be boring modern talk.
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Jan 16, 2016 18:18
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I still think Grixis Control will be more than adequate in picking up Twin's slack.
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Jan 16, 2016 18:20
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Ciprian Maricon posted:Bans haven't really increased variety in the way people are hoping. Either they tone down the power of a deck so that it makes up less of the meta-game like the way DRS bans toned down Jund (which is good), or they make an archetype disappear entirely the way a Nacatl ban killed zoo (which is bad). I can't think of a single time a ban has suddenly led to the flowering of new decks. It's almost always new cards that bring archetypes from Tier 2 to Tier 1 or back from the grave. True, but by that same token new cards can also make decks worse; Necatl was unbanned and Zoo isn't taking over a format with Siege Rhino et al in it.
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Jan 16, 2016 18:20
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https://mobile.twitter.com/mtgaaron/status/688242056708243456
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Jan 16, 2016 18:21
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Ciprian Maricon posted:Bans haven't really increased variety in the way people are hoping. Either they tone down the power of a deck so that it makes up less of the meta-game like the way DRS bans toned down Jund (which is good), or they make an archetype disappear entirely the way a Nacatl ban killed zoo (which is bad). I can't think of a single time a ban has suddenly led to the flowering of new decks. It's almost always new cards that bring archetypes from Tier 2 to Tier 1 or back from the grave. Treasure Cruise/Dig Through Time? Edit: Well, I guess that just made U/R less oppressive. I like how the influx of Cruise/Dig decks actually made Dredge more viable because none of the super-value delve decks wanted to sideboard in graveyard hate. 
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Jan 16, 2016 18:21
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Visions is MUCH worse than either Stoneforge or BBE.
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Jan 16, 2016 18:23
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Glad my LGS is doing Prerelease this weekend since half the store doesn't own a Modern deck anymore.
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Jan 16, 2016 18:26
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AlternateNu posted:I still think Grixis Control will be more than adequate in picking up Twin's slack.
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Jan 16, 2016 18:27
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Lancelot posted:Agred but I think they need to be a lot more counter-heavy to stop tron curving out. If nothing else, this will make flip Jace jump even more since most twin decks didn't use him.
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Jan 16, 2016 18:28
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