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sarmhan posted:I believe all formats should remain unchanged to protect players' valuable investments. That is clearly what matters most in the era of MTGfinance. on one hand i get your point but on the other hand as an infrequent (or non-, honestly) player who doesn't like standard and has had Titan half built in my binder for a while there's just a solid chance I never play paper magic with my own cards again.
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Jan 16, 2016 18:32
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Death Bot posted:on one hand i get your point but on the other hand as an infrequent (or non-, honestly) player who doesn't like standard and has had Titan half built in my binder for a while there's just a solid chance I never play paper magic with my own cards again. Congratulations, you're free!
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Jan 16, 2016 18:32
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AlternateNu posted:I still think Grixis Control will be more than adequate in picking up Twin's slack. I'm not as confident. It's crazy how much of an impact the possibility of twin affected games, even if you ran a Grixis list without the combo just the idea created a lot of room for your to deploy threats and use your disruption. I think it will have a harder time doing that once deck lists, and players adapt to never having to worry about twin again.
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Jan 16, 2016 18:33
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Voyager I posted:Glad my LGS is doing Prerelease this weekend since half the store doesn't own a Modern deck anymore. Healthy meta.
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Jan 16, 2016 18:38
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So how many Tron decks can we expect at the Pro Tour
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Jan 16, 2016 18:39
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TheKingofSprings posted:So how many Tron decks can we expect at the Pro Tour Hopefully it does well enough that I can sell my tronsense for ravagers.
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Jan 16, 2016 18:40
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TheKingofSprings posted:So how many Tron decks can we expect at the Pro Tour Probably not many. Pros don't like decks like Tron.
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Jan 16, 2016 18:41
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Voyager I posted:Congratulations, you're free! I actually do like playing magic but yeah i guess it is kinda nice that wizards is doing their best to show that even if i do think that spending $1000 or more to play a card game with one deck only is reasonable that depending on the deck I can just reasonably assume that the money (and my hobby) can just disappear overnight.
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Jan 16, 2016 18:41
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Ciprian Maricon posted:I'm not as confident. It's crazy how much of an impact the possibility of twin affected games, even if you ran a Grixis list without the combo just the idea created a lot of room for your to deploy threats and use your disruption. I think it will have a harder time doing that once deck lists, and players adapt to never having to worry about twin again. True. But this will also make the usefulness of Remand jump since players will be more likely to tap out on their turn.
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Jan 16, 2016 18:41
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I Kiki really a 100% unplayable substitute? I understand that being more expensive and dying to bolt are both extremely relevant drawbacks, but Twin already had to play around Exarch dying to every removal spell that wasn't Lightning Bolt anyways and Kiki has the silver lining of not getting you 2-for-1'ed if your combo gets interrupted. Obviously the end result is a slower combo that's more vulnerable to disruption, but that's not necessarily the same thing as a dead deck and Twin getting tuned down a little bit is probably not a bad thing for the format.Cactrot posted:Healthy meta. Yeah if half the store gets knocked out by one card getting banned that is probably a sign that things weren't great to begin with.
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Jan 16, 2016 18:42
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Nehru the Damaja posted:If the discussion is literally "removing Splinter Twin from Modern makes Modern a less interactive format Modern Modern Modern Modern" why would you say "yes but Legacy" You don't have to be playing Legacy to play Wasteland. There's also Vintage.
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Jan 16, 2016 18:47
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Hellsau posted:You don't have to be playing Legacy to play Wasteland. There's also Vintage. This is completely relevant to a discussion of Modern because
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Jan 16, 2016 18:51
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Voyager I posted:I Kiki really a 100% unplayable substitute? I understand that being more expensive and dying to bolt are both extremely relevant drawbacks, but Twin already had to play around Exarch dying to every removal spell that wasn't Lightning Bolt anyways and Kiki has the silver lining of not getting you 2-for-1'ed if your combo gets interrupted. Obviously the end result is a slower combo that's more vulnerable to disruption, but that's not necessarily the same thing as a dead deck and Twin getting tuned down a little bit is probably not a bad thing for the format. Being a turn slower matters in some match ups. Also being weaker to removal is an issue.
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Jan 16, 2016 18:52
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mcmagic posted:Visions is MUCH worse than either Stoneforge or BBE. Was that card played fair or with cascade (in modern)?
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Jan 16, 2016 18:52
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Rinkles posted:Was that card played fair or with cascade (in modern)? Both, though the cascade was all Bloodbraid Elf.
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Jan 16, 2016 18:53
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Voyager I posted:I Kiki really a 100% unplayable substitute? The difference is pretty significant. 1 turn later, 1 mana more is a lot in this game. The difference between Preordain and Anticipate, Bolt and Lightning Spear is one turn and one mana but in game play terms its massive. It might be "Unplayable" in the context of "I could instead do Tron turn 3 so gently caress that" not in the sense that you will literally lose every game if its in your 60.
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Jan 16, 2016 18:55
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LSV is at my prerelease.
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Jan 16, 2016 18:56
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Days like today remind me that not everyone has lived through this multiple times before. Maybe they don't make it explicit enough at all times but modern is the format of active management and very good deck is under an axe. I would never foil out a modern deck.
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Jan 16, 2016 18:56
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Ciprian Maricon posted:The difference is pretty significant. 1 turn later, 1 mana more is a lot in this game. The difference between Preordain and Anticipate, Bolt and Lightning Spear is one turn and one mana but in game play terms its massive. It's absolutely a worse card in a meaningful way. I'm just curious to see if UR Twin can work with it as a substitute while still being competitive, since Wizard's stated goal with the ban was to make the deck weaker more than to kill it outright. Up to now there was no reason to even try with Kiki because you had an obviously better card to use, but I'd at least like to see it tested out before people start flushing their decks.
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Jan 16, 2016 18:59
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Rinkles posted:Was that card played fair or with cascade (in modern)? It's unfair with or without cascade.
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Jan 16, 2016 19:00
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Voyager I posted:I Kiki really a 100% unplayable substitute? I understand that being more expensive and dying to bolt are both extremely relevant drawbacks, but Twin already had to play around Exarch dying to every removal spell that wasn't Lightning Bolt anyways and Kiki has the silver lining of not getting you 2-for-1'ed if your combo gets interrupted. Obviously the end result is a slower combo that's more vulnerable to disruption, but that's not necessarily the same thing as a dead deck and Twin getting tuned down a little bit is probably not a bad thing for the format. Twin's played it in the past but as Twin's 5-X. It's slow as hell. And now Knight Combo is the fastest Twin combo in the format. 
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Jan 16, 2016 19:01
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Thopter Engineeer -> Shape Anew for Blightsteel will now rule the format
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Jan 16, 2016 19:03
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:This is completely relevant to a discussion of Modern because Because people play Magic to have fun and Vintage is fun. If you're not having fun, go play Vintage. I'm sure your LGS will be happy to run Vintage events with proxies.
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Jan 16, 2016 19:05
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It's just a weird ban philosophy. A world where Splinter Twin is illegal but casting Karn on Turn 3 is okay is a world where Jace the Mind Sculptor should be legal.
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Jan 16, 2016 19:08
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no combo or control :I
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Jan 16, 2016 19:08
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InterrupterJones posted:In all seriousness, I thought there was a twin deck that popped up in Legacy not too long ago. Seems like a waste - apart from obvious reasons - to literally flush those cards down the toilet. It was a Dig deck and it wasn't good. TheKingofSprings posted:Tempo now gets to die slowly to Tron because it's become a fair deck I play RUG Delver. This is correct. Delverñ turn 2 flip into Goyf into Blood Moon with 2 Mana Leaks wasn't enough to win, so I don't know what will be. Hellsau posted:Because people play Magic to have fun and Vintage is fun. Used to be*
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Jan 16, 2016 19:10
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Voyager I posted:It's absolutely a worse card in a meaningful way. I'm just curious to see if UR Twin can work with it as a substitute while still being competitive, since Wizard's stated goal with the ban was to make the deck weaker more than to kill it outright. Up to now there was no reason to even try with Kiki because you had an obviously better card to use, but I'd at least like to see it tested out before people start flushing their decks. Go play Burn one weekend with all your Bolt's replaced with Searing Spears. Can you do it? Yeah, will it still win games? For sure. Is it something you'll want to sleeve up with any regularity? No. The margins in a format as powerful as modern are pretty small and slower by one turn, one mana, and now interrupted by every damage spell used by anyone, is a lot to deal with in a land of Turn 3 trons and Vengeful Griselbrands
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Jan 16, 2016 19:10
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Ciprian Maricon posted:Go play Burn one weekend with all your Bolt's replaced with Searing Spears. Can you do it? Yeah, will it still win games? For sure. Is it something you'll want to sleeve up with any regularity? No. Not to mention RRR isn't the easiest thing even if you do get to 5 without like, a Cascade Bluffs or something. Also holy crap I just realized 
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Jan 16, 2016 19:12
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TheKingofSprings posted:Twin's played it in the past but as Twin's 5-X. I'm glad I have this deck because without having to compete with twin and twin's disruption it may have actually gotten a lot better. Wasn't terrible to begin with.
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Jan 16, 2016 19:13
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You can just run Ancient Ziggarut now.
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Jan 16, 2016 19:14
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someone build Jacob Wilson's Merfolk list, im sure it's the ultimate counter to tron https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzJBPXZp1og
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Jan 16, 2016 19:21
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Turn two Thalia can stop a karn on turn 3. Everybody play hatebears
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Jan 16, 2016 19:24
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Even more decks that can run Ancient Ziggarut
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Jan 16, 2016 19:31
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Holy poo poo. Ronpaulitshappening.jpg
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Jan 16, 2016 19:41
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Hey remember when the most broken thing you could do with Tron lands was like, Tooth and Nail out a Darksteel (not Blightsteel!) Colossus It's almost as though steady power creep isn't a good thing
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Jan 16, 2016 19:47
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Its mostly because they keep printing new haymaker creatures
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Jan 16, 2016 19:53
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My buddy just bought 250 restos #mtgfinancelife At least he's making markets not following them I guess.
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Jan 16, 2016 19:53
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I hope they reprint shardless agent in SOI at the same time they unban Vision when U non-combo decks cease to exist in modern
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Jan 16, 2016 19:55
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:My buddy just bought 250 restos #mtgfinancelife He probably just bought them to play with, actually. Why do you have such a hate boner for MTG finance??
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Jan 16, 2016 19:56
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We must avoid printing fairly costed cards in order to accomodate broken mana acceleration lands
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Jan 16, 2016 19:57
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