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As I was ranting to a friend on Discord, Romero's map is... hmmm. There's a bit too much reliance on hurt-floors for my liking - like, it makes sense for the slime pool the entire map is surrounded by, but taking damage from the red veins as well is annoying, and the map likes to force you into the slime regardless (for instance, you have to go into a river of one just to get the blue key to progress). Map was also kinda narrow and/or cluttered at points, such as that teleport onslaught just before the elevator down to the Barons. That pitch-black room behind the yellow key door was so dark that I literally couldn't tell where I was being shot from (and you have to lower the rocket ammo pillar to turn the lights on in there - good luck figuring out all that your first run in there). Progression was kind of vague at points, particularly when it came to finding where the red key was. And yet... I liked it? It still had some inventive layout (in spite of that second room, I liked the three column room and how it looped back on itself; raising the ledge with the green armor so you could clear the central slime pool room; that waist-high fence and how you had to navigate it a bit to hit a switch to lower it in another bit of it). I'd probably play an entire game of level design like that, sure.
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Jan 16, 2016 05:49
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Casimir Radon posted:Romero has been involved in making mobile games that seperate dumb impulsive people from their money. He's probably doing fine. I thought that was his wife?
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Jan 16, 2016 05:53
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Eh if you're curious about Romero employment history, at some point you might as well just hit up http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,817/ or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Romero instead of relying on the forum posters of Something Awful Dot Com.
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Jan 16, 2016 05:57
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Segmentation Fault posted:I thought that was his wife? That's probably how they got together.
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Jan 16, 2016 06:08
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Johnny Law posted:Eh if you're curious about Romero employment history, at some point you might as well just hit up http://www.mobygames.com/developer/sheet/view/developerId,817/ or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Romero instead of relying on the forum posters of Something Awful Dot Com. Way to bring logic into it. Don't you know that most people post the way they talk, in that they don't look stuff up while posting? Sheesh. Also, I also had a Blake Stone dream the other night, but I can't remember it! I wonder if we could have networked our dreams together and played Dream Multiplayer.
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Jan 16, 2016 06:08
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Segmentation Fault posted:I thought that was his wife? They were both designing social games during the big social game boom of five or so years ago; they formed a company together called Loot Drop and made a few more (including a Ghost Recon game) and I guess they're good at it because their games still make money when it seems like every other social game dies on the vine.
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Jan 16, 2016 06:24
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Rupert Buttermilk posted:Way to bring logic into it. Don't you know that most people post the way they talk, in that they don't look stuff up while posting? Sheesh. Momentary lapse!
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Jan 16, 2016 07:12
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:They were both designing social games during the big social game boom of five or so years ago; they formed a company together called Loot Drop and made a few more (including a Ghost Recon game) and I guess they're good at it because their games still make money when it seems like every other social game dies on the vine. It's not surprising, really. Good designers make good games, and no matter what you think of them, both Romeros are very good designers.
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Jan 16, 2016 07:22
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The working conditions are way better making casual games. I doubt he's making cellphone poo poo because that's what he loves.
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Jan 16, 2016 07:44
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Romero's E1M8 (he just calls it E1M8) thoughts: -The beginning is pretty difficult on a pistol start. Not Perfect Hatred difficult, but I had a rough time with it on Hurt Me Plenty. Luckily, there's a candelabra that you can use as cover (not sure if this was intentional or what). -The cracks feel annoying. I feel like you're supposed to be able to finagle your way through cracked areas without taking damage, but sometimes that feels impossible. Taking damage from them feels like a dice roll, even if you're dashing through. That's frustrating. -The map has some nice detail without being too greebly. Sometimes (like in No Rest For The Living) maps get way too overboard with making details with map geometry, and it feels way out of place. There's attention to detail here without going too crazy. -There's some really nice set-pieces, like the tech area before the red door that uses some interesting height differences to make the area feel much larger than it is, Half-Life style. The boss fight feels cramped and doesn't have enough health IMO, but is also good looking and compelling to fight in. There's interesting use of elements like height, light/shadow, space, restricting the player semi-porously using nukage/cracks and biosuits, etc. Romero might not have made a Doom map in 21 years, but he's definitely not stuck in 1995. Overall I had a lot of fun playing it, and I'm looking forward to whatever he's doing next.
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Jan 16, 2016 07:44
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Doom gameplay pro tip: You can minimize the effect of damaging floors by knowing that the damage is only dealt at the exact same time that the weapon bobbing animation is at a peak (unless you're standing still). Doom level design pro tip: Take it easy with the damaging floors, jesus
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Jan 16, 2016 08:20
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Arivia posted:It's not surprising, really. Good designers make good games, and no matter what you think of them, both Romeros are very good designers. I can't comment on whether the games are actually good (social games that make money rarely are) but I was more surprised that a) there's still a market for these games outside of the big tentpoles, and b) they're still hanging around when most of the other big-name designers got out a while ago (or simply couldn't crack the market).
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Jan 16, 2016 08:24
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mind you, what qualifies as 'good' for a cash grab mobile game is different than other genres. it taps into a different area entirely, and it seems the romeros know what they're doing with that.
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Jan 16, 2016 08:29
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Shadow Hog posted:and the map likes to force you into the slime regardless (for instance, you have to go into a river of one just to get the blue key to progress). There are about half a dozen radiation suits in that map, at least one of which is available before you get the blue key. I beat the level without ever having to enter the nukage unsuited (except for once when I was poking around for a secret, behind which was a suit anyway).
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Jan 16, 2016 09:39
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Greg Punchatz dug up a few pictures from the past. https://twitter.com/GPunchatz/status/687834975723335680 https://twitter.com/GPunchatz/status/688014360690724868 https://twitter.com/GPunchatz/status/688115779758260224
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Jan 16, 2016 10:03
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"Weapons bolted to a Doom marine" actually makes for a way neater Revenant than "tall skeleton."
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Jan 16, 2016 11:23
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Question for any Doom modders that frequent this thread: is there any way to make doors open horizontally instead of vertically? I ask because I'm using Project Brutality as a base to make a Hotline Miami FPS. I have a VERY rough proof of concept done, but I cannot for the life of me figure out the door situation.
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Jan 16, 2016 12:24
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blackmarketlimb posted:Question for any Doom modders that frequent this thread: is there any way to make doors open horizontally instead of vertically? No. It's *possible* that some doom source port allows for this (and this is more than likely) but the base game does not allow this.
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Jan 16, 2016 12:33
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Search the zdoom wiki for polyobjects, they're kinda tricky to get working right but it's what you're after
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Jan 16, 2016 12:35
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catlord posted:And finally I discovered EGwhaven. I don't have the Witchaven games but I'm curious about them, even knowing that they're supposedly quite bad. Has anybody tried it? They're pretty fun, but keep in mind I'm saying this from the perspective of someone with huge nostalgia for them.
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Jan 16, 2016 12:38
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Pathos posted:No. It's *possible* that some doom source port allows for this (and this is more than likely) but the base game does not allow this. You can do it with Hexen polyobjects but not the vanilla Doom engine.
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Jan 16, 2016 13:49
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Segmentation Fault posted:Romero's E1M8 (he just calls it E1M8) thoughts: For a pistol start, the trick seems to be to dash over, grab the shotgun, drop into the trench and get the hazmat suit and blue key, then go up the elevator. On UV I found it effectively impossible to survive that first wave of enemies otherwise, but there's a way out that takes you through a much more defensible route. It's a pretty solid map. Good to see he remembers how to do it - hope he'll aim higher next time.
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Jan 16, 2016 14:06
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A shotgun guy teleports in almost instantly on UV and then you have a shotgun, it's not that hard.  Also playing that map made me realize that while everyone talks about missing the SSG when playing Doom compared to Doom 2, it's kind of nice to know that you won't ever open the door into an agitating skeleton or get dropped into a pack of chaingunners. It's like, chiller. Geight fucked around with this message at 15:46 on Jan 16, 2016 |
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Jan 16, 2016 15:44
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Luigi Thirty posted:Lord British spent all his money on a castle, Tabula Rasa, and going into space. Money well spent, no sarcasm.
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Jan 16, 2016 16:17
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Luigi Thirty posted:You can do it with Hexen polyobjects but not the vanilla Doom engine. You can't make something based on Project Brutality in vanilla Doom either.
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Jan 16, 2016 16:20
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Dominic White posted:For a pistol start, the trick seems to be to dash over, grab the shotgun, drop into the trench and get the hazmat suit and blue key, then go up the elevator. On UV I found it effectively impossible to survive that first wave of enemies otherwise, but there's a way out that takes you through a much more defensible route. You can grab the shotgun and pull back into the entrance, pop the two SGers that teleport in, and make your way through the map slowly. It's really not that bad after you've tried it once or twice.
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Jan 16, 2016 18:09
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PaletteSwappedNinja posted:They were both designing social games during the big social game boom of five or so years ago; they formed a company together called Loot Drop and made a few more (including a Ghost Recon game) and I guess they're good at it because their games still make money when it seems like every other social game dies on the vine. One thing they've managed to do that keeps them in reliable income is that their mobile games don't try to rely on suddenly getting everyone int he world to play them, the way other companies that have flamed out like Zynga did. Their games are comfortably profitable even with a relatively small number of players, and that means they don't end up in the "year or two of massive profits, then nothing major ever again" thing which drives companies to have to hire and then fire a lot of people to stay running. I suppose ol' John learned something from Daikatana's development after all. 
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Jan 16, 2016 19:04
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Daikatana is a very educational game. Sure, it mostly teaches what *not* to do, but that's important to learn too.
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Jan 16, 2016 20:48
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Keiya posted:Daikatana is a very educational game. Sure, it mostly teaches what *not* to do, but that's important to learn too. Masters of Doom goes into great detail about the trials and tribulations of Daikatana. It's a shame Romero just didnt release the Quake 1 Daikatana, and focused on using Quake 2 for the sequel.
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Jan 16, 2016 20:59
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xG1oYjG5Bg8
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Jan 16, 2016 21:31
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On a lark, I decided to try out SiN for the first time since I own it on GoG for some reason. 3 levels in and so far the idea that this game was supposed to be a serious competitor to Half-Life is hilarious in retrospect.
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Jan 16, 2016 21:41
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Lork posted:On a lark, I decided to try out SiN for the first time since I own it on GoG for some reason. 3 levels in and so far the idea that this game was supposed to be a serious competitor to Half-Life is hilarious in retrospect. Do keep in mind that the levels and objectives you face in a single play through depend on how you complete earlier levels! Next time you play it, try blowing up the things on the bank roofs and shooting down the billboards - that is if you didn't do so your first time through.
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Jan 16, 2016 21:47
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fishmech posted:Do keep in mind that the levels and objectives you face in a single play through depend on how you complete earlier levels! One weird thing that sticks out is that certain aspects of the game are giving me serious Deus Ex vibes. Something about Hardcorps headquarters just screamed "UNATCO" to me, even before I saw the usable computers or the utility bot that fixes the lights. Then in the actual game, the objective system and the way it's displayed, the turrets that you could turn on or off with computers, the bums in the subway, the way the lab looks, JC Armack in your ear... Was there any overlap between Ritual and Ion Storm?
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Jan 16, 2016 22:18
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Lork posted:I shot a few holes in the roof but didn't notice any billboards and couldn't figure out how to save the cops. To save the cops you've got to be real quick to take down the guys on the roofs. The billboard you can shoot down is way above the glass skylight into the lobby area, on some other buildings - if you shoot it with the helicopter gun it'll fall over and through the skylight and cause an interesting effect for the start of the bank level. And just in general, and I hope it's not too spoilerly, if you complete as many secondary objectives as possible and avoid failing and thus changing primary objectives, the level path you get sent on generally gets easier although you can have to do more work to stay on the easier path. There's an entire sewer/water treatment area where depending on how you completed previous levels, you either don't do at all (because you can take an alternate path), you only do a small bit on the way to the next level, or you gently caress up and need to go through a lot more. You can also avoid entering a later level with enemies on full alert by doing certain things in preceding levels. There wasn't much overlap with Ion Storm, but the same guy did a large chunk of the mapping for Duke Nukem 3D and SiN. Ino Storm and Ritual were both headquartered in Dallas in 1996 though.
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Jan 16, 2016 22:40
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I remember reading in magazines that Ritual was supposed to be staffed with Doom/Quake fans with some prior experience with mapping and modding, and the whole game is littered with references to obscure clans and people from the scene. Cute if true.
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Jan 16, 2016 23:21
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Keiya posted:Daikatana is a very educational game. Sure, it mostly teaches what *not* to do, but that's important to learn too. Some say the best way to carve a statue of an elephant is to start with a block of marble, and chip away everything that doesn't look like an elephant. Theoretically one could make the perfect FPS by starting with a terrible game and removing everything that looks like Daikatana.
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Jan 16, 2016 23:45
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laserghost posted:I remember reading in magazines that Ritual was supposed to be staffed with Doom/Quake fans with some prior experience with mapping and modding, and the whole game is littered with references to obscure clans and people from the scene. Cute if true. Yeah it definitely has that in there. Including some of the people in the "accounts" you can look at in the bank level.
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Jan 17, 2016 00:47
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Lork posted:On a lork, I decided to try out SiN for the first time FTFY  Also, looking forward to checking out that Catacombs review; I have a huge amount of nostalgia for it. It came in a "Ten Shareware Games!" package, including Shooting Gallery, Moraff's Entrap (edit: Ken's Labyrinth and Commander Keen 4, too!), and THE best computer version of Capture the Flag I've ever seen. So good, in fact, that if I ever decide to get into game development, remaking that game is priority #1. I know this thread is for old FPS games, but I just need to gush about that DOS Capture the Flag.  Hotseat multiplayer, modem/online multiplayer, cute little farms to run and hide in... glorious pc gaming back in the day.Edit: here it is. Seriously, it was drat fun. http://www.dosgamesarchive.com/download/capture-the-flag/ Rupert Buttermilk fucked around with this message at 01:27 on Jan 17, 2016 |
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Jan 17, 2016 01:17
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Oh my god I remember this. ... and the guy still wants twenty bucks for the full version, geeze... I'd throw five bucks his way but that's a bit high.
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Jan 17, 2016 02:50
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Keiya posted:Oh my god I remember this. Throw five bucks my way when I finally someday maybe redo it in Unity or Unreal or something 
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Jan 17, 2016 02:57
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