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I think people have posted enough Star Wars fan fiction in these threads to be honest.
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Jan 17, 2016 22:37
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rear end Catchcum posted:This guy is a loving dork. So how do you feel about Star Wars?
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Jan 17, 2016 22:38
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My favorite Star Wars fan fiction is JJ's.
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Jan 17, 2016 22:39
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rear end Catchcum posted:My favorite Star Wars fan fiction is JJ's. I haven't seen it yet, what's it about.
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Jan 17, 2016 22:40
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SHISHKABOB posted:I haven't seen it yet, what's it about. 2 or so hours. Go see it.
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Jan 17, 2016 22:42
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In the political climate that's established in TFA, isn't the New Order successfully crippling the Republic kind of silly? They're seen as just a bunch of neo-Nazi cosplayers, they're not a credible enough threat that the Republic has bothered to even mess with them. It would be the equivalent of North Korea or ISIS destroying Washington DC. It's like a neocon fever dream.
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Jan 17, 2016 22:52
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Frackie Robinson posted:In the political climate that's established in TFA, isn't the New Order successfully crippling the Republic kind of silly? Seemlingly they're not a credible enough threat that the Republic has seen fit to neutralize them. It would be the equivalent of North Korea or ISIS destroying Washington DC. It's like a neocon fever dream. It would be a bit like the Al-Qaeda blowing up the Pentagon.
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Jan 17, 2016 22:54
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Bongo Bill posted:It would be a bit like the Al-Qaeda blowing up the Pentagon. If Episode VIII starts with Hux, Ren, et. al. living in caves and having their commanders steadily eliminated by drone strikes then I'll happily retract my complaint.
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Jan 17, 2016 22:55
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Frackie Robinson posted:If Episode VIII starts with Hux, Ren, et. al. living in caves and having their commanders steadily eliminated by drone strikes then I'll happily retract my complaint. We should remember Prof. Tolkien's essay on allegory versus applicability, of course.
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Jan 17, 2016 22:58
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Admiral Ackbar might just be the worst character in the OT. He's certainly the worst character anyone can remember, even if it's just because of funny internet may-mays. His strongest characterisation is that he's a fish-dude, and fish-dudes (real name: Mon Calamari and god I wish I didn't know that off the top of my head) are good at space navy stuff. It's an interesting thematic link between space and sailing...except the OT treats space as 'that thing that gets in the way of the planets we're going to' rather than a location itself, and most of the space stuff in ANH and ESB is more like aerial dogfighting than naval battles. RotJ has a bit more space navy fighting, but the focus in the Death Star battle is still the Falcon pulling off insane stunts like a fighter pilot rather than the daring nautical tactics of the Rebels. Dude doesn't even have a first name. He's just 'Admiral', Ackbar to his friends. His job is to point out the obvious in a funny alien voice. Then he turns up in TFA because, uh, continuity I guess? He does even less here, and the Resistance have even less of a naval theme, so... Like, you'd have to take a pretty strong oppositional reading along the lines of 'Ackbar is supposed to be evocative of the British Empire's powerful Navy prior to WW2, as a contrast to the Nazi-like Empire', but he's even less British than most of the other characters in Star Wars, so gently caress it, I dunno. (Also the real-world parallels don't really work there since it was the Japanese that demonstrated how useless the British Navy was in WW2.)
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Jan 17, 2016 22:59
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Bongo Bill posted:We should remember Prof. Tolkien's essay on allegory versus applicability, of course. I guess all I'm saying is that if the point of what happens in TFA is all machinations to ensure that the good guys will be the underdogs again, then it was an extremely cheap way of doing it. If it's going somewhere else, and it could be, then that's fine. An interesting place to go in the next movie would be sort of a reverse Empire Strikes Back- we find the New Order in crisis now that they're in open war with the Republic and they eat massive amounts of poo poo for most of the movie.
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Jan 17, 2016 23:01
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There's so many instances in the prequels of Lucas pilfering shots from the OT*:    Many people defend this. Saying it gives a sense of inter-connectivity. In reality it exposes Lucas as a fairly limited in terms of shot composition and imaginative film making. Instead of feeling warm nostalgia or creating a thematic link between the OT and the PT, it simply reminds the audience that they could be watching better movies. We waited 17 years for this? The prequels are a glaring example of a filmmaker who has lost his touch. This isn't uncommon as directors often lose whatever talent they had in old age. See Brian DePalma and Francis Ford Coppola (both friends of Lucas) *I'm sure these examples have been posted but they're the quickest ones I could find
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Jan 17, 2016 23:08
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The shot of the door melting isn't a steal from ANH, it's from Forbidden Planet.
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Jan 17, 2016 23:10
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Yaws posted:We waited 17 years for this? Expectations destroy movies.
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Jan 17, 2016 23:11
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Bongo Bill posted:Expectations destroy movies. Oh no, the Expectations Argument again!
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Jan 17, 2016 23:12
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Also, those compositions are obviously different. Like, I mean on an extremely basic level: one is circular and the other one's rectangular 
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Jan 17, 2016 23:15
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Yaws posted:Oh no, the Expectations Argument again! How about what Maxwell Lords said? Maybe the films are not entirely limited to self-referentiality. It was said before that Lucas is a Classical filmmaker, so isn't he building off of images that are already deeply embedded in our film culture?
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Jan 17, 2016 23:16
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ungulateman posted:Dude doesn't even have a first name. He's just 'Admiral', Ackbar to his friends. His job is to point out the obvious in a funny alien voice. His first name is Gial.
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Jan 17, 2016 23:24
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Bongo Bill posted:Expectations destroy movies. It's not exactly like they didn't have the time and budget to account for this. Since it relates to this discussion of expectations, I'l expand on how I feel and felt WRT the prequels: as a kid, I really wantes to like them, I loved Darth Vader and lightsabers, but I could never remember one of the films in their entirety (or even substantially): literally all I could remember were a zoom-in of a shiny building, then guys in robes talking, maybe Yoda's face. As a teen I tried again and still couldn't remember anything notable. Around this time I realized that there was an "original trilogy" (because episode one durf), I ended up enjoying those way more. As an adult I've given the PT a second chance and still find it lacking, and agree with many of the arguments in the RLM videos. Point being I had literally zero expectations of the movies beyond "lightsabers" and still found it wanting. I ended up absorbing a lot of trivia from the movies through cultural satire and parodies than actually taking away anything from the film. Obviously I'm not literally every young person who has seen Star Wars, just figured I'd throw in my anecdote and see if anyone else had the same experience.
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Jan 17, 2016 23:25
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SHISHKABOB posted:How about what Maxwell Lords said? Maybe the films are not entirely limited to self-referentiality. It was said before that Lucas is a Classical filmmaker, so isn't he building off of images that are already deeply embedded in our film culture? 'Building off'. That's a euphemism. He swiped it. Like a fat guy stealing candy from a youngling. What's worse, carbon copying shots from your own films in a cynical attempt at nostalgia or pilfering from your predecessors?
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Jan 17, 2016 23:26
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jivjov posted:His first name is Gial. Also air combat has been a pretty major part of naval warfare for like 90 years. I'm sure Ackbar has a major role in directing/positioning fighter and bomber wings.
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Jan 17, 2016 23:28
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I've got a bad feeling about this.
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Jan 17, 2016 23:28
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Yaws posted:'Building off'. That's a euphemism. He swiped it. Like a fat guy stealing candy from a youngling. Isn't this a false dilemma? The first shot is pretty different already cause the pt is from the view inside and the ot is from outside. I mean, I'm sure you could find more shots that look more similar to each other, but I personally think that's missing the point.
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Jan 17, 2016 23:33
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Yaws posted:What's worse, carbon copying shots from your own films in a cynical attempt at nostalgia or pilfering from your predecessors? I'm getting the impression that you might dislike Star Wars. Motto fucked around with this message at 23:37 on Jan 17, 2016 |
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Jan 17, 2016 23:34
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Motto posted:I'm getting the feeling that you might dislike Star Wars. He actually does like Star Wars, perhaps more than you; he's comparing the shots to draw attention to the absurdity of pouncing on TFA for drawing homage and reference from previous Star Wars films; his argument is not "this is bad, they are all bad", it is "this is fine, they are all fine". In spite of genuinely interacting with you and others, you have dismissed him by parroting a meme. If he complains about this you will then deride him for being unable to talk about star wars. The worlds dorkiest example of passive-aggression continues.
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Jan 17, 2016 23:38
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http://lukeprimous.tumblr.com/post/136012988449/it-could-happen
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Jan 17, 2016 23:48
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Motto posted:I'm getting the feeling that you might dislike Star Wars.
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Jan 17, 2016 23:50
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Neurolimal posted:He actually does like Star Wars, perhaps more than you; he's comparing the shots to draw attention to the absurdity of pouncing on TFA for drawing homage and reference from previous Star Wars films; his argument is not "this is bad, they are all bad", it is "this is fine, they are all fine". Lucas's mirroring is generally more creative and textually meaningful. That's the objection. It's not that J.J. does it. It's that he doesn't do it nearly as well.
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Jan 17, 2016 23:50
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Neurolimal posted:He actually does like Star Wars, perhaps more than you; he's comparing the shots to draw attention to the absurdity of pouncing on TFA for drawing homage and reference from previous Star Wars films; his argument is not "this is bad, they are all bad", it is "this is fine, they are all fine". Wow come on dude this is loving ridiculous. You have this idea that there are some posters who hate you or something and want to... I don know, gently caress with you? By making up rather good and interesting analyses of the films and their contexts? So loving what if SMG says some retarded poo poo like "sw fans do not like sw", Basically you deride him for speaking his opinion plainly and truthfully. I really sincerely don't think SMG is trying to gently caress with anybody, I've been seeing him post since pacific rim came out and he utters the word "fascist" and the thread reels and dies in agony. Primarily because they misunderstood and misinterpreted the statement. That thread was great, and it was the spark that has led to my fascination with film and stuff like this. Sure it gets hot and heavy sometimes to talk about the nature of a work and the meaning you find in it, but it should! Or else what was the point of watching it in the first place.
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Jan 17, 2016 23:50
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ungulateman posted:Admiral Ackbar might just be the worst character in the OT. He's certainly the worst character anyone can remember, even if it's just because of funny internet may-mays. On this point, I disagree: Ackbar is a prototypical Nemoidian, and people like him for the same reasons: he takes himself quite seriously but is ultimately a doofus. Making Ackbar an Admiral is the same joke as making C3PO god-king of the Ewoks. The character is played for camp, and he essentially exists in the film to show how much better Lando is at everything (especially improvisation). With that established, his job description is fairly unimportant. The consequence, however, is that we identify more with Ackbar than with Lando - who is eager to sacrifice himself in battle out of devotion to Han. Why does everyone care so much about Han? Ackbar reminds us all that this is stupid.
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Jan 17, 2016 23:58
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Neurolimal posted:He actually does like Star Wars, perhaps more than you; he's comparing the shots to draw attention to the absurdity of pouncing on TFA for drawing homage and reference from previous Star Wars films; his argument is not "this is bad, they are all bad", it is "this is fine, they are all fine". That's incredibly reductive. To note that a Star Wars film is drawing on its predecessors both within the series and cinema in general is merely stating that it is, in fact, a Star Wars film. What matters is what purpose the parallels, mirrors, and rhymes are or aren't serving.
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Jan 18, 2016 00:01
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Neurolimal posted:Obviously I'm not literally every young person who has seen Star Wars, just figured I'd throw in my anecdote and see if anyone else had the same experience. One major female character in the PT, and she dies because she loses the will to live. Ugh.
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Jan 18, 2016 00:10
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Motto posted:That's incredibly reductive. To note that a Star Wars film is drawing on its predecessors both within the series and cinema in general is merely stating that it is, in fact, a Star Wars film. What matters is what purpose the parallels, mirrors, and rhymes are or aren't serving. Are you trying to imply that the references in TFA are uneccessary? Because there have been a good number of posts since the movie's release that have brought up ways in which they contribute to the themes of the film.
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Jan 18, 2016 00:14
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Solenna posted:Mostly what I remember is Padme getting her top ripped in Attack of the Clones to show off her stomach in a really obvious and pandering way, and her dying for literally no other reason than she lost the will to live, which is the lamest loving thing I've ever heard so gently caress the prequels. Dying of a broken heart isn't exactly unprecedented in literature
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Jan 18, 2016 00:19
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Solenna posted:One major female character in the PT, and she dies because she loses the will to live. Ugh. Arwen ROTK - bad ending. And yes it is one of the dumbest things in the long scrawl of dumb things that is the relationship of Anakin and Padme.
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Jan 18, 2016 00:19
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Neurolimal posted:Are you trying to imply that the references in TFA are uneccessary? Because there have been a good number of posts since the movie's release that have brought up ways in which they contribute to the themes of the film.
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Jan 18, 2016 00:23
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For example, Leia's rescue of Han in ROTJ is clearly meant to to reference Luke's rescue of Leia in ANH, as a sort of gender-swapped role reversal:        And there are also instances where Luke's actions during the Jabba's palace rescue mirror his earlier actions during the Death Star rescue, as a demonstration of the different challenges he's now facing and of how much he's matured since that time:       But despite the intentional mirroring that's going on, the two scenarios are different enough from each other that I don't think anyone could seriously accuse Lucas of ripping himself off. The Jabba's palace rescue sequence is, in all other respects, nothing like the Death Star rescue sequence. It's fairly bursting at the seams with vibrant creativity and new, original ideas. I don't think TFA quite reaches that same standard. It's more of a shot-for-shot reference palooza with not much else going for it in terms of originality. I don't see very much reinterpretation or subversion going on. Most of it seems to be nothing more than pure referencing (or "updating"). Once again, it seems like J.J. saw something on the surface of these movies that he wanted to emulate, but he didn't quite grasp the deeper meaning behind it all. And that's not surprising coming from a guy who says he never really liked Star Trek because it was too "intellectual." The guy just isn't a deep thinker--or, to be absolutely fair to him, he just doesn't like [e: Star Wars] movies that require him to be a deep thinker. Cnut the Great fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Jan 18, 2016 |
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Jan 18, 2016 00:26
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Hbomberguy posted:What do you think they contribute? If you had read the posts that don't agree with your reading, you'd already know!
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Jan 18, 2016 00:29
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turtlecrunch posted:Arwen ROTK - bad ending.
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Jan 18, 2016 00:29
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Neurolimal posted:If you had read the posts that don't agree with your reading, you'd already know!
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Jan 18, 2016 00:30
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