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gently caress the Falklands, they have a statue of Margaret Thatcher and they don't even vandalise it regularly.
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Jan 18, 2016 10:37
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Oberleutnant posted:https://twitter.com/proletarianrage/status/688998743404838912 I'd be interested to see how the tabloids will support this while also being filled with rage if Spain tries the same thing to Brits who're immigrants there.
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Jan 18, 2016 10:38
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dispatch_async posted:What percentage of UKIP voters were previously Labour voters? The figure I've seen says around a quarter, e.g. John Cruddas (!) here says 18%-20% http://labourlist.org/2015/10/labours-shrinking-vote/
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Jan 18, 2016 10:44
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OvineYeast posted:The figure I've seen says around a quarter, e.g. John Cruddas (!) here says 18%-20% http://labourlist.org/2015/10/labours-shrinking-vote/ Yeah that's the kind of figure I've seen. Which suggests ronya is wrong to think they aren't a significant number of voters. It was a nice encapsulation of the disconnect though. Oxbridge PPE graduate political theorists telling voters that voters don't actually care about immigration. Voters responding with 3.8 million votes for UKIP.
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Jan 18, 2016 10:53
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According to Oxfam, income inequality worldwide is rising faster than expected with the 62 richest people having as much wealth as the 3.6 billion poorest combined. Their wealth has increased by 44% in the last five years when the poorest half of the world's population has dropped by about £694 billion. It's totally those workshy scroungers taking all your money though. More here http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/9006788
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Jan 18, 2016 10:54
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Semprini posted:I'd be interested to see how the tabloids will support this while also being filled with rage if Spain tries the same thing to Brits who're immigrants there. Obviously Spain couldn't because of the EU. So they're not going to even suggest it.
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Jan 18, 2016 11:12
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Oberleutnant posted:https://twitter.com/proletarianrage/status/688998743404838912 That's the loving dumbest thing I've heard today, and Cameron needs to be told that there's only one official language in any part of the UK and if he wants to make this poo poo a law then that's the language that all mothers need to learn. Cymru am byth.
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Jan 18, 2016 11:17
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Guavanaut posted:So, on the topic of Argentina, if a Patagonian woman who speaks both Welsh and Spanish but no English moved to Gwynedd to write for the Welsh language section of a newspaper and had a child with a Welshman, she could be deported for refusing to learn a language which is not even an de jure language of the UK in any province when she already speaks the official language? Generally this kind of legislation will treat Scottish Gaelic, Welsh, BSL etc. on a level with English, it's just not worth mentioning for Cameron because the Conservatives aren't competitive in these areas.
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Jan 18, 2016 11:20
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Guavanaut posted:So, on the topic of Argentina, if a Patagonian woman who speaks both Welsh and Spanish but no English moved to Gwynedd to write for the Welsh language section of a newspaper and had a child with a Welshman, she could be deported for refusing to learn a language which is not even an de jure language of the UK in any province when she already speaks the official language? I don't think he cares about that, he's just grandstanding against the most vulnerable immigrants and appealing to prejudices. How exactly is he planning to gauge an 'improvement'? ESOL qualifications to a certain level? I'm sure there'll be plenty of extra provision to get people up to speed, especially evening classes for the people working full time
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Jan 18, 2016 11:25
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Does Cameron specify that they all need to learn his inbred home counties dialect of a language which has only de facto legal status within Britain, or can they all learn Geordie to spite him?
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Jan 18, 2016 11:26
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BBCquote:New rules will mean that from October, people coming to the UK on a five-year spousal visa will have to take a test after two and a half years to show they are making efforts to improve their English.
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Jan 18, 2016 11:30
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OwlFancier posted:I don't suppose it's very socialist to maintain the status quo, but I also don't think that handing the Falklands to Argentina would make it very socialist either. I'm not sure they want to remain part of the UK exclusively because of the economics. A brutal and murderous military dictatorship invaded them 30 years ago. Funnily enough, they might not want to be part of the country that did that, and they might prefer the political stability of the UK to a country that has a habit of military coups.
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Jan 18, 2016 11:30
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OwlFancier posted:Yes but in your example it would be more akin to asking the palestinians whether or not they want to be ruled by Israel, and then ignoring them when they say "gently caress no". Also the Falklands are pretty obviously significant to Argentina, it's why they're making so much fuss. Worth doesn't have to be economic or even strategic.
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Jan 18, 2016 11:50
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If everyone left Ireland would it default to being British? If everybody left Argentina would it belong to the Falklands, Spain, or the neighboring Latin countries? I don't think the concept of a country or sovereignty makes much sense in the absence of people.
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Jan 18, 2016 11:54
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quote:Mr Cameron said there was "a connection with combating extremism" and improving English was important "if we're going to try to help people become more resilient against the messages of Daesch". gently caress is wrong with this guy. Yeah there's a problem with women especially in some communities being unable to speak English, and being entirely reliant on their husbands to run their lives, which is why getting those women into ESOL classes was always an important goal. But it's delicate situation since those men could prevent the women from attending or paying for their course anymore, for any reason, so the priority is on helping the women gain as much language skill and social confidence as possible, and smoothing over any problems. Cameron weighing in with this 'save them from extremism' poo poo is not going to help. Learning English is an important and worthy goal in itself, tying it to his 'root out the seditious muslims' crusade is only going to damage it, but what's new
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Jan 18, 2016 12:00
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Does anyone know if theres any groups or boards that GP's post on? I had a pretty nasty accident on my bike saturday morning and I was lucky enough to have a GP driving in a car right behind us who stopped and helped, but didn't leave his name. I'd like to say thanks, especially for the blanket.
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Jan 18, 2016 12:00
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Also on the subject of deportations for failing English, will Cameron turf out the majority of UK school leavers too? I bet most would fail that test.
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Jan 18, 2016 12:02
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Foreigns who can't afford the time or money to study for an exam only
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Jan 18, 2016 12:15
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ronya posted:he's the goddamn Leader of the Opposition, he's theoretically an election away from the premiership. It's one thing for an obscure backbencher to advocate talk; now it is time to learn what he wants to talk about and what deal he would sign, because he could be signing them. Thus far his only indicated position is that 1) the islanders do not exercise a veto, and 2) Britain's position should be to disavow any commitment to defend the Falklands through force of arms (because it is "crazy" that Britain might be obliged to do so). Given Argentinean intransigence, that implies only one logical position. You've touched on a fundamental issue for the British left here, failure to articulate a vision. I like Corbyn a lot and will be voting for his candidates should I get the chance (think I'll get at least one in London), however if the left wing ever want to win a national election again they have to nail down why people should vote for them. Not why the Tories are awful, not the mechanics how they will make things better, but the better UK at the end of the road. Security is a great example of this, why vote Tory on security? They articulate their vision so simply “We will keep you safe”. Comparatively, why vote Labour? “Because some of us like nuclear weapons and some don’t” “We need to talk to some people then we might be able to decide what’s best in the future.” As policy positions or conversation starters both of these are arguably fine but they say nothing about direction and don’t inspire confidence as a result. I don't think this is necessarily Corbyn's fault, he did well to bring a few strands together on Andrew Marr at the weekend actually (leading to today's Sun cover which I sincerely hope will be tomorrow's laughing stock), however he's in charge now and must do more to set out a future people can get behind, not a set of policies, a vision. Would it be too much to ask the Labour party to agree that they want a world without nuclear weapons in the long run? Not a big step but a start, also a good stick to beat team patriotism with.
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Jan 18, 2016 12:24
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Party Boat posted:Which Argentinians are being displaced and driven from their homes? Those penguins are British mate
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Jan 18, 2016 12:30
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British Fish for British Penguins
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Jan 18, 2016 12:35
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If the consideration behind binning trident is the cost, maintaining/building new subs and the infrastructure while not having the nukes isn't going to save much. If the consideration is getting rid of nuclear weapons because they are a bad thing (which I love the sentiment behind, but pandoras box is wide loving open on this) then maintaining an easy route to them seems a bit hypocritical/pointless. Plus, you would have to have all this capacity to rearm in secret, because if a scenario came up where suddenly nukes were good and reasonable and needed, announcing "well, in six months time we won't have to worry because we will have nukes again" is pretty much inviting the opponent to strike ASAP. It's a messy cludge to try and placate people over what is essentially a non-issue at the moment that the press are finding it incredibly easy to roast corbyn over. A better route of attack would have been to suggest significant reforms to military purchasing if trident is kept, because more is stolen by firms loving the nation over on aircraft carriers and helicopters kept in hangars for decades e.t.c than gets spent on trident. That would open other avenues of attack on military spending/corruption (that the press will routinely ignore to whatever extent they feel they can, because of who owns the press). alternatively, hand over trident to the falklands defence force.
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Jan 18, 2016 12:59
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The British government's attitude to the Falklands on the one hand and Diego Garcia on the other is an interesting exercise in compare and contrast the overseas territory. On the one hand, we've got the Falklanders, where we (allegedly) fought a war to protect their right to keep their homes, and on the other we've got the Chagossians (with a similar population), who we're trying to prevent from returning home with every weapon in our legal arsenal. The Falklanders are white, of course, and therefore count.
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Jan 18, 2016 13:10
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Zalakwe posted:You've touched on a fundamental issue for the British left here, failure to articulate a vision. I like Corbyn a lot and will be voting for his candidates should I get the chance (think I'll get at least one in London), however if the left wing ever want to win a national election again they have to nail down why people should vote for them. Not why the Tories are awful, not the mechanics how they will make things better, but the better UK at the end of the road. I don't really know what a good solution to this would look like, other than 'teach critical thinking and analysis as key skills from a young age' and generally try to shift the culture towards celebration of careful analysis and rejection of simplistic views. Or somehow get the message across to more of the left that as long as the policies are in broadly the right direction, cohesiveness is more important than the precise details.
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Jan 18, 2016 13:15
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Kegluneq posted:I'm not trying to draw a direct equivalence here, I'm more opposed to the idea of unilateral self-determination referendums being held as binding. Kegluneq posted:So can a country not count unoccupied islands within their territory? If the civilian population of the Falklands upped and left, which country should assume ownership, and why? Maybe you should lay out what you believe on where and for what reason national sovereignty stems from. I find it pretty weird that you don't think the people living in a place should have relevance to issues of sovereignty. Like, I feel like I get your position some - if the Falklands were an unoccupied rock, it is relatively likely we might have given them back already. Clearly the people who live there are quite relevant. Take this example: the ROI has a much better claim to NI than the UK does, however most people there want to stay as part of the UK. Do you think they should have deported the million+ Northern Irish people back to the UK regardless? Because strictly speaking their historical/geographical claim to national sovereignty is stronger?
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Jan 18, 2016 13:18
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Zalakwe posted:You've touched on a fundamental issue for the British left here, failure to articulate a vision. I like Corbyn a lot and will be voting for his candidates should I get the chance (think I'll get at least one in London), however if the left wing ever want to win a national election again they have to nail down why people should vote for them. Not why the Tories are awful, not the mechanics how they will make things better, but the better UK at the end of the road. His 'vision' was to make an attempt at a diplomatic resolution to this endless posturing. That's it. He's literally just advocating trying to talk to Argentina instead of saying 'this is how it is, gently caress you'. He didn't say anything about giving up the islands or overriding the will of the inhabitants, he implied the opposite in fact. But the whole point of diplomacy is a willingness to discuss things, which is mutually exclusive with an outright veto Of course this gets spun as CORBYN WANTS TO GIVE UP ARE FALKLANDS because anything but squaring up to 'the argies' is seen as weak and traitorous
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Jan 18, 2016 13:19
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 quote:HOPES of Britain leaving the EU were handed a huge boost tonight after a shock poll revealed that the out campaign has opened up an enormous lead in the run-up to the referendum.
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Jan 18, 2016 13:19
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i've started calculating how much of my life the bus company has stolen and it's horrific how can a 7 mile journey possibly take over an hour each way every single day
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Jan 18, 2016 13:25
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TACD posted:I don't really know what a good solution to this would look like, other than 'teach critical thinking and analysis as key skills from a young age' and generally try to shift the culture towards celebration of careful analysis and rejection of simplistic views. Or somehow get the message across to more of the left that as long as the policies are in broadly the right direction, cohesiveness is more important than the precise details.
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Jan 18, 2016 13:30
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baka kaba posted:His 'vision' was to make an attempt at a diplomatic resolution to this endless posturing. That's it. He's literally just advocating trying to talk to Argentina instead of saying 'this is how it is, gently caress you'. What is there to be resolved?
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Jan 18, 2016 13:30
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OvineYeast posted:The British government's attitude to the Falklands on the one hand and Diego Garcia on the other is an interesting exercise in compare and contrast the overseas territory. Falklanders are British citizens, Chagossians are Mauritian? I don't see a contrast at all. I see two examples where the UK (rightly or wrongly) takes action in order to maintain their grasp on an Overseas territory. Argentians want "their" island back? We say no. Mauritius want their island back? We say no.
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Jan 18, 2016 13:30
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Britons ready to quit the EU, all white and more on the way 
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Jan 18, 2016 13:35
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Jeza posted:Falklanders are British citizens, Chagossians are Mauritian? You are incorrect.
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Jan 18, 2016 13:38
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Guavanaut posted:Kick out the fash (rah rah rah). The problem with that is it's the same position the fascists take. I thought we already agreed the left aren't going to win by becoming indistinguishable from the right. E: who cares if there's more snow on the way, it's only going to go up Gideon's nostrils.
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Jan 18, 2016 13:39
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I'd love to see this language requirement applied to British expats who've retired to Spain and France.
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Jan 18, 2016 13:42
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Renaissance Robot posted:Britons ready to quit the EU, all white and more on the way Did you both miss that they're literally calling it a Crusade in the lead sentence?
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Jan 18, 2016 13:43
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TACD posted:I don't really know what a good solution to this would look like, other than 'teach critical thinking and analysis as key skills from a young age' and generally try to shift the culture towards celebration of careful analysis and rejection of simplistic views. Or somehow get the message across to more of the left that as long as the policies are in broadly the right direction, cohesiveness is more important than the precise details. Unfortunately I think that Corbyn and other thinkers massively overestimate the time people spend considering these issues. Occasionally they also overestimate their audiences as well, and it's true sometimes a good argument can go in one ear and out the other, however when we talk about raving right wingers we are usually talking about very well educated people. Equally dangerous is the underestimate particularly of the working poor. I don't think Tory class discourse on welfare (for example) will last forever, in fact it's starting to break down, the question is whether it will be replaced with anything effective. It's not easy but I do think the left are no good at it and could do a hell of a lot better. There does seem to be a minor move away to different sorts of political communication (public meetings etc.) which is good, however the rapid fire electronically shared discourse we have is probably going to be dominant for a long time. Harnessed well it can be hugely powerful in levelling out privilege, filled with hundreds of clever words it will likely be ignored. baka kaba posted:His 'vision' was to make an attempt at a diplomatic resolution to this endless posturing. That's it. You articulated this better than he did. You for Head of Media at the Labour party. Edit: I do agree with Pissflaps above that this issue is not really live, so getting dragged into chatting on it at all is a mistake.
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Jan 18, 2016 13:43
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^^ He was just answering a question (which comes up over and over and over), he wasn't promoting a policy or anything -e how is it not live? We never hear the end of it Pissflaps posted:What is there to be resolved? The ongoing international dispute
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Jan 18, 2016 13:45
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Ungrateful bastard Corbyn snubs bicycle fundraising effortsquote:Jeremy Corbyn will donate the money raised by supporters to buy him his “dream bike” to charity, he has said. Won't name his cat, won't accept a gift, probably won't even touch a child inappropriately. It all makes me so angry!
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Jan 18, 2016 13:47
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Pissflaps posted:What is there to be resolved? Mercosur member states closing their ports to any ships flying a Falklands flag. Stuff like that would be nice to get sorted.
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Jan 18, 2016 13:47
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