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Or, in other words, "Conservatives claim they can wave a magic wand and make oil $100 a barrel again".
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Jan 18, 2016 20:50
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quote:"If you recall the economic crisis of 2008, we put our budget out — it was a very unique time, but we're back in a unique time … because the markets and Canadians needed that signal." 1. Unique doesn't need a modifier you dope. 2. If the signal is that we're going to shut down social services and plow everything we have into becoming a petrostate so we can grow up to be like our friends the Saudis, I think I'd be okay not sending that signal.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:52
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Baudin posted:Hi jm20 it's great to see you're still an idiot. You probably have never lived in a rural area your entire life so you're unlikely to be aware that rural taxis aren't generally available everywhere - the region I lived in didn't have access to one that would be less than $60 a trip, at the very very very least. Going to a party and someone forces you to get drunk (as happened to a friend of mine growing up)? Well congrats your drunk an hour and a half drive from home and now no one wants to drive you there. I hope you like taking township roads - gravel roads since you probably don't know what that is - and I hope you "drive safe." uh huh
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Jan 18, 2016 20:57
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flakeloaf posted:1. Unique doesn't need a modifier you dope.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:59
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jm20 posted:I appreciate your kind words, however rural people do have options to get around. You'd be surprised to know there are services such as taxi's and co-op/non-profits that operate a rural shuttle service. Have you ever been to Bancroft? It's a relatively affluent community by Ontario standards and it's also got a pretty centralized downtown. Obviously some people shouldn't be allowed on the roads but I really don't know why you're so relentlessly fixated on punishment. Pointing out that people in rural areas are absolutely reliant on cars isn't necessarily a plea for sympathy, it's also a practical issue. Unless you're advocating a massive massive increase in the number of police monitoring rural roads and communities then you're never going to fully address the problem with harsher punishments. jm20 posted:Who's paying for them to relocate if they can't afford it themselves -- transportation, first and last months rent, etc? This sounds remarkably similar in both tone and approach to the way the war on drugs has been handled. Which is to say it sounds like your desire for good public policy is getting crossed up with your anger and contempt for drunk drivers. The fact is that while you're making this about the victims of drunk driving you're so utterly contemptous of people who don't live in big cities that even I, a lifelong city slicker, am having trouble taking your more reasonable statements seriously. I actually have elderly relatives in Bancroft and neither of them can drive, and your total lack of concern for what would happen to them if the person they relied on could no long drive either is remarkably callous.
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Jan 18, 2016 21:25
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consequences, perhaps their spouse can drive them around.
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Helsing posted:Have you ever been to Bancroft? It's a relatively affluent community by Ontario standards and it's also got a pretty centralized downtown. I've been to Bancroft, they even have a subway! I've given context to your remark about me having a casual disregard for the well being of your old people. I wish them well, dui caretakers, not so much. In case you missed it, Ikantski spilled the beans that we already have a 3 strike system
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Jan 18, 2016 21:32
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I think when rural people are forced (probably by the gays and/or commies) to drink and then drive we should understand that they are unique individuals suffering from unique problems and ignore the fact they put the lives of other rural people at risk.
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Jan 18, 2016 21:34
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Not to mention the lives of meese.
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Jan 18, 2016 21:35
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We shouldn't be too hard on people who make society a more dangerous place with their selfish decisions -- think about the people who depend on those people!
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Jan 18, 2016 21:43
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Newfie posted:The leader of the NDP is the stripper from The Big Short. I just feel like I can sit down and have a beer with Mulcair and talk about our equity (mine isn't good) Also if you take away licenses from rural people they drive anyway, people.
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Jan 18, 2016 21:44
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Jordan7hm posted:I think when rural people are forced (probably by the gays and/or commies) to drink and then drive we should understand that they are unique individuals suffering from unique problems and ignore the fact they put the lives of other rural people at risk. His extended family is full of complete assholes that got him addicted to alcohol at 16 because they figured it was funny. Welcome to the rural Alberta advantage.
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Jan 18, 2016 21:47
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Professor Shark posted:I just feel like I can sit down and have a beer with Mulcair and talk about our equity (mine isn't good) Cars. Take the cars.
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Jan 18, 2016 21:48
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So what if I fired a few rounds in a crowded area? Nobody got hurt. Think about what this conviction will do to my family that depends on me, and you'll see that punishing me only hurts them. What kind of sadist are you that you'd intentionally harm my poor family?
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Jan 18, 2016 21:49
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To reiterate: the issue with focusing on punitive measures is not "oh think of the poor drunk drivers and their families!" It's more the fact that in a situation where people simply need to drive to survive, a lot of them are going to find ways to drive. And since drunk driving already indicates you're not thinking clearly about risks vs. rewards you would probably need a shitload more law enforcement on the roads to actually have a measurable impact. So again: my concern is that an approach that neglects community planning or infrastructure is going to be ineffective.jm20 posted:
I kinda figured at this point we were having a more general conversation about the best way to deal with an issue like this rather than just what laws are or should be on the books. Like I said, I don't have any particular issue with the three strikes law except that it's probably not very effective. Jordan7hm posted:I think when rural people are forced (probably by the gays and/or commies) to drink and then drive we should understand that they are unique individuals suffering from unique problems and ignore the fact they put the lives of other rural people at risk. This isn't really related to the discussion but Bancroft has a local restaurant that put up a sign saying "Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve!" a few years ago and there was such a large outcry (and no one really stepping forward to defend them) that they very quickly took the sign down. In a lot of places I can imagine that couple coulda gotten rich off a GoFundMe or Kickstarter campaign capitalizing on SocCon resentment but at least in this case they were left twisting in the wind.
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Jan 18, 2016 21:50
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Problem is when city people bring their bikes in to rural areas and get mowed down by some drunkard.
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Jan 18, 2016 21:52
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flakeloaf posted:Cars. Take the cars. Most of these people drive $200 cars Unless they still have their trucks, but I've been seeing a lot of those for sale by the side of the road.
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Jan 18, 2016 21:54
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cowofwar posted:Problem is when city people bring their bikes in to rural areas and get mowed down by some drunkard. Speaking of people who badly misjudge risk/reward.
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Jan 18, 2016 21:56
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Helsing posted:To reiterate: the issue with focusing on punitive measures is not "oh think of the poor drunk drivers and their families!" It's more the fact that in a situation where people simply need to drive to survive, a lot of them are going to find ways to drive. And since drunk driving already indicates you're not thinking clearly about risks vs. rewards you would probably need a shitload more law enforcement on the roads to actually have a measurable impact. So again: my concern is that an approach that neglects community planning or infrastructure is going to be ineffective. It's a slow day, I'll brainstorm another talking point to ride to the grave for the next time. Baudin posted:His extended family is full of complete assholes that got him addicted to alcohol at 16 because they figured it was funny. Welcome to the rural Alberta advantage. Rural advantages include things like rampant alcoholism, petty theft, disregard for laws, disregard for health and safety legislation, more expensive hydro transmission costs. Professor Shark posted:Most of these people drive $200 cars I wouldn't put a price on the cars tbqh, it's more like does it run, and can it stop (not a deal breaker). Every function or safety apparatus in between is icing.
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Jan 18, 2016 21:57
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Helsing posted:To reiterate: the issue with focusing on punitive measures is not "oh think of the poor drunk drivers and their families!" It's more the fact that in a situation where people simply need to drive to survive, a lot of them are going to find ways to drive. And since drunk driving already indicates you're not thinking clearly about risks vs. rewards you would probably need a shitload more law enforcement on the roads to actually have a measurable impact. So again: my concern is that an approach that neglects community planning or infrastructure is going to be ineffective.  Folks have to do stuff. If they also have a condition that compels them to get snothangin boogerlickin drunk, they're going to do both of those things to the best of their ability and people are going to die. Taking someone's license or vehicle and setting them loose without also trying to fix what's wrong with their lives that makes them a danger in the first place is irresponsible. The CJ/social safety system needs to have a plan for this person's eventual return to society.
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Jan 18, 2016 21:58
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jm20 posted:I wouldn't put a price on the cars tbqh, it's more like does it run, and can it stop (not a deal breaker). Every function or safety apparatus in between is icing. Yeah that's a better way of looking at it. "Good enough" has been the philosophy in some of these places for literally hundreds of years.
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Jan 18, 2016 21:59
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--
Melian Dialogue fucked around with this message at 05:35 on Feb 2, 2016 |
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Jan 18, 2016 21:59
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flakeloaf posted:Cars. Take the cars. They do. Then the rural guy buys a used beater for 300 bucks.
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Jan 18, 2016 22:04
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Baronjutter posted:My friend used to do horse stuff up near a reserve, which was also around a lot of farms and suburban "hobby farm" sort of deals. Post-soviet style roving packs of dangerous dogs were a thing. They'd attack people and livestock and generally cause a lot of trouble. The local animal control though didn't have any authority on the reserve land, which is where all the dogs were coming from. They'd have to catch the dogs off the reserve and the reserve its self was extremely uncooperative if not downright hostile towards animal control or the people getting attacked. It was a really bad situation that fueled a lot of anger towards the reserve, and probably still is. If they're roving packs, then they're feral and (as you said) dangerous. Were the farmers not just shooting them on sight? Obviously that wouldn't be able to deal with all of them, but it seems strange for people way out in the country to be calling up animal control.
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Jan 18, 2016 22:08
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This thread is shockingly hostile to the cyclists for a bunch of people who complain about car culture. As someone who frequently rides my bike a hundred or so Km out of the city and back, in addition to commuting to work half of the year, I am glad to know that I'll have it coming if I get smoked. Thanks. Ikantski posted:Speaking of people who badly misjudge risk/reward.
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Jan 18, 2016 22:08
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Math You posted:This thread is shockingly hostile to the cyclists for a bunch of people who complain about car culture. One or two posters does not a thread make.
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Jan 18, 2016 22:11
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Melian Dialogue posted:Also on another note, I am enjoying lurking with the occassional snarky comment posting much more than I ever did with effort-posting. CI, THC and others have the right idea here, and the more I see intelligent and well-nuanced thought from people like Helsing the sadder I think that it's wasted on a comedy forum. Cool
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Jan 18, 2016 22:14
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Melian Dialogue posted:Also on another note, I am enjoying lurking with the occassional snarky comment posting much more than I ever did with effort-posting. CI, THC and others have the right idea here, and the more I see intelligent and well-nuanced thought from people like Helsing the sadder I think that it's wasted on a comedy forum. Lots of other people are enjoying that as well because it means seeing less of your dumbass opinions.
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Jan 18, 2016 22:15
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Brannock posted:If they're roving packs, then they're feral and (as you said) dangerous. Were the farmers not just shooting them on sight? Obviously that wouldn't be able to deal with all of them, but it seems strange for people way out in the country to be calling up animal control. Wasn't way out in the country, more that transition zone between country and suburb. Out in Saanich, north of Victoria. I don't think the "farmers" out there often have guns. It's mostly rich horse people and retirees who always wanted to have a "farm". The main crop out there is lawn.
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Jan 18, 2016 22:19
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Math You posted:This thread is shockingly hostile to the cyclists for a bunch of people who complain about car culture.
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Jan 18, 2016 22:53
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Math You posted:This thread is shockingly hostile to the cyclists for a bunch of people who complain about car culture. You don't have it coming but jesus christ is it ever risky. I don't ever ride my bike on the S2S because it's sketchy as poo poo, and as much as I have the right to not get nailed by some random moron who's driving drunk/texting/just not paying attention that's sure as poo poo not going to mean much if I'm dead. I had to drive along Hwy99 for like 200 meters last year once because I took a wrong turn on the valley trail and was too lazy to walk back up a giant hill, and I was terrified the entire time.
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Jan 18, 2016 23:01
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Math You posted:This thread is shockingly hostile to the cyclists for a bunch of people who complain about car culture. As someone who lives on the 80km/h highway with 6" shoulder that the logging trucks take to get to the 400 series where bikes are appropriately banned for safety reasons, I just don't see the appeal. It doesn't mean I'm hostile towards your hobby, I have stupid hobbies too but I just don't see what reward could make biking on my road so amazing. Hearing about a bike/car collision is like hearing a doctor who smokes died of lung cancer. It's sad but not as sad as other things that aren't completely predictable.
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Jan 18, 2016 23:02
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It's sad because it's always some worthless repeat offender killing some professional with a family.
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Jan 18, 2016 23:04
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cowofwar posted:It's sad because it's always some worthless repeat offender killing some professional with a family. I dunno I've been following a bunch of well offs hitting millennial hipsters in the city recently. It seems to go in cycles, but the cyclist always seems to lose. If you do cycle to work, at the very least have a life insurance policy well into the hundreds of thousands payable to your family. Same goes with motorcycles, ugh.
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Jan 18, 2016 23:09
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cowofwar posted:It's sad because it's always some worthless repeat offender killing some professional with a family. In Ottawa, it's almost always old people doing the killing. Tons of bad older drivers in Ottawa. One more reason not to cycle on the roads imo even if you do have the legal right, just doesn't seem worth it.
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Jan 18, 2016 23:10
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cowofwar posted:It's sad because it's always some worthless repeat offender killing some professional with a family. Or, more recently, some worthless repeat offender professional killing a family 
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Jan 18, 2016 23:17
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Baronjutter posted:My friend used to do horse stuff up near a reserve, which was also around a lot of farms and suburban "hobby farm" sort of deals. Post-soviet style roving packs of dangerous dogs were a thing. They'd attack people and livestock and generally cause a lot of trouble. The local animal control though didn't have any authority on the reserve land, which is where all the dogs were coming from. They'd have to catch the dogs off the reserve and the reserve its self was extremely uncooperative if not downright hostile towards animal control or the people getting attacked. It was a really bad situation that fueled a lot of anger towards the reserve, and probably still is. On the other side of things, a friend of mine grew up on a reserve and an old white guy came and shot her dog one day, which fueled a lot of anger of its own. Partly for killing the dog and partly for shooting guns around their house/community.
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Jan 18, 2016 23:24
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Duck Rodgers posted:On the other side of things, a friend of mine grew up on a reserve and an old white guy came and shot her dog one day, which fueled a lot of anger of its own. Partly for killing the dog and partly for shooting guns around their house/community. Yeah, this is all hearsay but she was telling me some people near the reserve were putting out poison to try to kill the strays after their kid got bit or their wife got menaced, which obviously would hurt any free-roaming dogs and pissed off the people on the reserve. Even if it wasn't true, the rumour got out there and people on the reserve got pissed that people were trying to poison their dogs. The bottom line is that you should keep your animals fenced in and semi-wild dogs running around biting people is going to create bad blood. But it's sort of hard to have perfect pet-ownership and training when you're stuck in crippling poverty.
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Jan 18, 2016 23:29
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Ikantski posted:In Ottawa, it's almost always old people doing the killing. Tons of bad older drivers in Ottawa. One more reason not to cycle on the roads imo even if you do have the legal right, just doesn't seem worth it. That's the biggest threat here in NB, bunch of gray hairs incapable to admitting that if you're shorter than the wheel you shouldn't be driving the car.
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Jan 19, 2016 00:08
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Yeah, I know somebody who was recently out jogging in Thunder Bay and got hit by a 90-year-old driver who was apparently blind enough he couldn't see her crossing a green light and turned left, right into her.
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Jan 19, 2016 00:33
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Moody's Investors Service has changed its outlook on the Alberta economy from "stable" to "negative" and says the situation will get worse unless the province's NDP government takes action. I wonder what action the government could possibly take to reverse the trend? No wait, let me guess: cut everything, and when that doesn't help, implement more cuts.
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Jan 19, 2016 00:44
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