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rabidsquid posted:Even Brainstorm was regarded as largely useless initially Brainstorm was largely pointless without fetchlands. If you have no reliable way to shuffle, Preordain and Ponder are vastly more powerful than Brainstorm. Then again, if Brainstorm is legal and fetchlands aren't, you're probably incentivized to find some way to shuffle to enable such a powerful card. Thawing Glaciers got banned, right? e:fb
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Jan 19, 2016 08:16
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newtestleper posted:What you seem to be looking for: cheap, competitive decks for FNM formats, basically do not exist. They especially do not exist if you don't want to use 4 ofs. Black/White Warriors exists, and Black/Red Eldrazi looks poised to take over the ultra-budget throne post rotation. You just have to calibrate your expectations around the understanding that 'cheap' for an FNM-worthy deck is going to be like $50.
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Jan 19, 2016 08:17
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Brainstorm wasn't useless without fetches!!
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Jan 19, 2016 08:23
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Deckit posted:I was king of the kitchen table with my 80 card deck of Llanowar Elves, Wall of Ice and Craw wurms. Craw wurm was unbeatable! Until Hand of Death took him. Mine was like 100 cards all picked based on art, or having gold borders. I just really wanted to cast Jungle Troll.
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Jan 19, 2016 08:59
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rabidsquid posted:When I started playing I somehow missed the rule on having to tap to attack, and also assumed that damage persisted. Serra Angel was TRASH compared to the impossible to beat Sengir Vampire. Necro and consult were pretty popular right from the get go. I know they were both used at least used in the 96 pro tour, and Ice Age was only released in late 95. And Brainstorm was mildly popular, but tbh without all the shuffle effects from fetches and stuff it's not that amazing even now. Whispers of the Muse was the big card advantage cantrip for the longest time. Also the first combo deck I remember was prosbloom and that ran a ton of draw-prosperity, impulse, infernal contract. You wouldn't risk consult for a combo deck like that because you didn't want to risk getting your only kill exiled. Also the idea behind Sligh was more using all it's mana every turn vs. just trying to get the most powerful spell effects possible each turn. rabidsquid posted:Brainstorm was a decent way to protect combo pieces from discard and pitched to FoW. But nobody cared to protect combo pieces. alansmithee fucked around with this message at 09:16 on Jan 19, 2016 |
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Jan 19, 2016 09:13
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alansmithee posted:Necro and consult were pretty popular right from the get go. I know they were both used at least used in the 96 pro tour, and Ice Age was only released in late 95. And Brainstorm was mildly popular, but tbh without all the shuffle effects from fetches and stuff it's not that amazing even now. Whispers of the Muse was the big card advantage cantrip for the longest time. Also the first combo deck I remember was prosbloom and that ran a ton of draw-prosperity, impulse, infernal contract. You wouldn't risk consult for a combo deck like that because you didn't want to risk getting your only kill exiled. Also the idea behind Sligh was more using all it's mana every turn vs. just trying to get the most powerful spell effects possible each turn. Yeah that's all pro stuff, for the most part average players were suffering under the delusions that rabidsquid points out.
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Jan 19, 2016 09:16
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Lightning Lord posted:Yeah that's all pro stuff, for the most part average players were suffering under the delusions that rabidsquid points out. Tbh a lot of average players still suffer under those delusions, it's just much easier to go on the internet and get a deck without necessarily knowing the whys of card selection. I will admit that when I first started playing I thought necro was junk (jester's cap was the big chase rare in ice age), and the same with FoW. However by the time I quit and started up again around Urzas, I quickly learned my lesson. I also seem to remember playing Brainstorm as a draw 3->put 2 of those 3 back card, which obviously makes it much worse (on top of the lack of fetches).
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Jan 19, 2016 09:18
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alansmithee posted:Tbh a lot of average players still suffer under those delusions, it's just much easier to go on the internet and get a deck without necessarily knowing the whys of card selection. I played during Ice Age and I wasn't aware of Necro's existence until like 2004 when I came back to the game briefly. I had no real way to know all of the cards and besides Magic sets were fucken gigantic back then.
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Jan 19, 2016 10:10
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Lightning Lord posted:Mine was like 100 cards all picked based on art, or having gold borders. I just really wanted to cast Jungle Troll. Mine was the green 7th edition starter deck. Man, that was overpowered - not only did green have the biggest creatures, Ancient Silverback could comeback from the graveyard at any time for just one green mana (unless you dark banishing it).
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Jan 19, 2016 10:11
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Angry Grimace posted:I played during Ice Age and I wasn't aware of Necro's existence until like 2004 when I came back to the game briefly. I had no real way to know all of the cards and besides Magic sets were fucken gigantic back then. Three hundred and eighty three cards, with a solid third of them being at rare. Magic design was ridiculous in a lot of ways, but this might be the most ridiculous of them all - they were designing cards that most players would never even know the existence of.
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Jan 19, 2016 10:12
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http://archive.wizards.com/magic/magazine/article.aspx?x=mtgcom/daily/rb49
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Jan 19, 2016 10:17
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I'd still like to have been a fly on the wall in the meeting where they made the decision to include Necropotence in Fifth Edition.
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Jan 19, 2016 10:24
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How do people feel about Kozilek, the Great Distortion, either in Standard or Modern? I run Ulamog as a commander, and thought about switching to Kozilek, but ultimately decided against it. Kozilek compares very unfavorably to Ulamog (as a commander but also just as a magic card in general) in several ways: -Ulamog is indestructible -Ulamog does not have to ever deal combat damage to kill your opponent -Ulamog has a better cast trigger -Ulamog does not require colorless mana (though this is probably the least relevant) Ulamog has been out long enough that people are starting to realize that he is insanely powerful and his price is rising accordingly. He is currently the most expensive card in BFZ and I don't see Gideon topping him. It's possible that Kozilek is better against very controlling decks but for the most part I can't think of many situations where I have 10 mana and would rather cast Kozilek, despite him refilling your hand. Do you think he has potential as a complement to Ulamog or is it just better to run 4 Ulamogs?
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Jan 19, 2016 10:32
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Angry Grimace posted:I'd still like to have been a fly on the wall in the meeting where they made the decision to include Necropotence in Fifth Edition. Or the existence of Yawgmoth's Bargain
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Jan 19, 2016 10:34
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Looking at Legends is a really good way to entertain yourself, though. There's all sorts of hilarious poo poo like a 5/7 Legend that costs 5UB to cast with the ability: "T: Add [B] to your mana pool."Lets Pickle posted:How do people feel about Kozilek, the Great Distortion, either in Standard or Modern? I run Ulamog as a commander, and thought about switching to Kozilek, but ultimately decided against it. Kozilek compares very unfavorably to Ulamog (as a commander but also just as a magic card in general) in several ways: Ulamog, despite being indestructible, dies all the time. You typically cast one of them and tutor for the other with Sanctum. If you don't have either and have the option to tutor for one (through either World Breaker or Ugin, usually) tutor for Kozilek because even if they counter Kozilek, you have 7 cards in hand. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 10:44 on Jan 19, 2016 |
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Jan 19, 2016 10:39
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Lets Pickle posted:How do people feel about Kozilek, the Great Distortion, either in Standard or Modern? I run Ulamog as a commander, and thought about switching to Kozilek, but ultimately decided against it. Kozilek compares very unfavorably to Ulamog (as a commander but also just as a magic card in general) in several ways: I think the upside to running a single Kozilek is very high - Kozilek is at his best in situations where Ulamog isn't particularly amazing. e: Ulamog is pretty much always excellent, though - the card is absurd even if it never hits the battlefield. Niton fucked around with this message at 10:47 on Jan 19, 2016 |
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Jan 19, 2016 10:41
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Angry Grimace posted:Looking at Legends is a really good way to entertain yourself, though. There's all sorts of hilarious poo poo like a 5/7 Legend that costs 5UB to cast with the ability: "T: Add [B] to your mana pool." They're vanity cards - they're all based on a D&D campaign that set's designers played. Also being gold legends was seen as in itself a big deal.
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Jan 19, 2016 10:44
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Lightning Lord posted:They're vanity cards - they're all based on a D&D campaign that set's designers played. Also being gold legends was seen as in itself a big deal. I don't know that at the time they were aware when they translated their D&D characters to the game that Rasputin Dreamweaver would combo with Eldrazi Displacer to give you infinite mana.
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Jan 19, 2016 10:54
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Drafts are fun as hell, but I've got to learn how to build better decks at them. This the red black Eldrazi you were talking about? http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/daily-deck/modern-black-red-eldrazi-2015-12-11 Kilo147 fucked around with this message at 11:00 on Jan 19, 2016 |
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Jan 19, 2016 10:55
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Kilo147 posted:Drafts are fun as hell, but I've got to learn how to build better decks at them... Just remember to always draft BREAD. Bombs - Cards that can win you the game by casting them or by having them go unanswered. These are often strong Uncommon or Rare cards that either provide standalone value when you cast them or have strong synergies with your board/game plan. Removal - Cards that can remove your opponents' threats. These are often lumped into permanent removal - kill/exile your dude effects - and temporary removal - exile a dude until X cards and/or effects like Pacifism. Evasion - Prioritize creatures and/or effects that can give your dudes evasive abilities (ie. Flying, Unblockable, Menace). Generally speaking you want your dudes to just come with these effects, but sometimes there are cards that can provide the effect which are strong in an off themselves. Aggro - On-curve threats (especially at low CMC) can often just be enough to win if your opponent doesn't have a hand that can curve out or remove threats fast enough These cards can also be combat tricks that allow you to push through extra points of damage to put your opponent on the back foot. Duds - These cards live up to their name: they are often the 'sticks' in a pack (cards you don't want but are forced to take) and you definitely don't want to put them in your deck if you don't have to. Generally speaking, draft from top to bottom as much as possible. That being said, some formats lean heavily on one or two big creature threats than others, so sometimes it is correct to prioritize removal (this is not typically the case, though).
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Jan 19, 2016 11:06
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Mikujin posted:Just remember to always draft BREAD. Well, poo poo. That's helpful.
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Jan 19, 2016 11:08
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Lightning Lord posted:They're vanity cards - they're all based on a D&D campaign that set's designers played. Also being gold legends was seen as in itself a big deal. I would wager that being gold legends was a big deal since neither thing existed before the set came out.
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Jan 19, 2016 11:21
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 Never change, MTGO. Never change.
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Jan 19, 2016 12:28
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Angry Grimace posted:Looking at Legends is a really good way to entertain yourself, though. There's all sorts of hilarious poo poo like a 5/7 Legend that costs 5UB to cast with the ability: "T: Add [B] to your mana pool." Lady Orca is 7/4 5RB with the ability :... That said, I actually far prefer the backstory/fluff/flavor of the old sets vs. everything weatherlight and beyond. I always thought it was kinda cool that the world was built pretty much just from the cards' flavor text where you'd just get fragments and references to people and events. rabidsquid posted:I would wager that being gold legends was a big deal since neither thing existed before the set came out.
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Jan 19, 2016 15:11
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alansmithee posted:Lady Orca is 7/4 5RB with the ability :... Are you not riveted by Jaces origin story and adventures, and then slavishly reading every tidbit about your 2nd favorite planeswalker?
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Jan 19, 2016 15:24
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The whole "neo-planeswalkers" storyline is crap, but also the whole Weatherlight saga was crap too. The bits of Magic creative that are good is all worldbuilding, and occasionally flavour text.
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Jan 19, 2016 15:36
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Lancelot posted:the whole Weatherlight saga was crap too. I'll fight you Brother's War was the best storyline
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Jan 19, 2016 15:41
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Lancelot posted:The bits of Magic creative that are good is all worldbuilding, and occasionally flavour text. I think any good flavor text can be chalked up to the broken clock effect.
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Jan 19, 2016 15:48
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Cynic Jester posted:
If you were playing paper that would be a draw unless you Cut your Elesh Norn, I like the style points.
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Jan 19, 2016 15:58
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Yeah, I'll never understand why people unceremoniously poo poo on the Weatherlight storyline; I thought contextualizing events in the story, particularly big moments, with cards was pretty cool.
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Jan 19, 2016 16:09
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Mikujin posted:Just remember to always draft BREAD. I don't think this holds up well in modern set design. You could draft all the "bombs" you wanted in triple BFZ but if I draft a UR synergy deck I'll most likely wipe the floor with you because your deck has 2 good cards and mine has 23 mediocre cards that combine to do awesome poo poo. Also aggro is completey busted in some sets (origins) and non-existent in others (ROE) Go ahead and draft all the 2cmc 2/2's you want in ROE. Modern draft really, really is made with the idea that you examine the set and think about how many colors the set is wanting you to play, what the major mechanics are and how decks with them will work, and what each color pairing wants to do. Almost every draft set is designed around drafting 2 colors, Khans was also even though they expect you to go 3. Khans was built around drafting an enemy color pair then splashing a 3rd color. The key to success was to realize they want you to draft BW then decide if your aggro mardu or midrange abzan, or UG morph or UG delve with temor or sultai etc. etc. BREAD is ok but I'm pretty sure there are formats where following the menumonic will lead you to having a sub 50% win rate.
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Jan 19, 2016 16:16
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bhsman posted:Yeah, I'll never understand why people unceremoniously poo poo on the Weatherlight storyline; I thought contextualizing events in the story, particularly big moments, with cards was pretty cool. Mirage has some of my favorite art and visions/weather light has cools cards like booby trap. Also the love song of night and day is amazing and I will bare knuckle box anyone that disagrees
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Jan 19, 2016 16:19
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I always remember 'D' as 'defense' - as in, if nothing else you can always durdle, though it should be last on your priority list. Even LSV likes grabbing a Yoked Ox every once in awhile.
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Jan 19, 2016 16:20
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rabidsquid posted:Or the existence of Yawgmoth's Bargain There's a Maro article about how Bargain was his attempt to "fix" Necropotence. I mean, it costs twice as much so it should be fine right?
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Jan 19, 2016 16:20
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Lancelot posted:The whole "neo-planeswalkers" storyline is crap, but also the whole Weatherlight saga was crap too. The Weatherlight story may have been crap, but it was a firm, smooth, satisfying crap. Justice League is one of those hard, jagged shits that tears up your rear end in a top hat on the way out. GaryLeeLoveBuckets posted:There's a Maro article about how Bargain was his attempt to "fix" Necropotence. I mean, it costs twice as much so it should be fine right? *prints Academy Rector and Replenish literally in the same set*
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Jan 19, 2016 16:21
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It's really the dialogue of the neo-planeswalkers that drives me nuts. The loose plot bits are fine.
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Jan 19, 2016 16:29
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Cynic Jester posted:
you just win if you F6 there, right? bhsman posted:I always remember 'D' as 'defense' - as in, if nothing else you can always durdle, though it should be last on your priority list. Even LSV likes grabbing a Yoked Ox every once in awhile. There's a lot of disagreement over what the A and D stand for. I've heard "Abilities" and "Dregs". BREAD is good as long as you realize it's just a teaching tool to help you realize what's actually important in Limited, it's not a hard and fast rule you should slavishly adhere to for all of your picks. CABS is similar. And there are some sets they will apply much more to (like Origins), while some of the deeper more synergy-based formats like Khans of Tarkir or Battle For Zendikar reward picking cards that work together as an archetype much more than they reward just taking a good curve of removal and creatures in two random colors. I liked Origins for being the most straight-forward draft set in recent memory. It got a lot of people at my LGS into drafting because they were able to feel like they were actually figuring out the format and learning how to properly make picks that mattered. And then they got dropped in the deep end with BFZ...
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Jan 19, 2016 16:29
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Cynic Jester posted:
Yea, isn't that an unbreakable loop?
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Jan 19, 2016 16:41
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Entropic posted:you just win if you F6 there, right? CABS is much better than BREAD in my opinion since most modern games in limited are about who curves out better. You're right about BFZ not really catering to it but if you're good CABS drafter you're going to be at least competitive in any format.
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Jan 19, 2016 16:48
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Snacksmaniac posted:Yea, isn't that an unbreakable loop? It's an unbreakable loop that requires the person controlling it to use up their clock time though, I think. mcmagic posted:CABS is much better than BREAD in my opinion since most modern games in limited are about who curves out better. Yeah, and Origins was he perfect set to exemplify it. The LR podcasts from Origins era are actually a really good listen if you're starting out in drafting and want to get better.
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Jan 19, 2016 16:50
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