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jassi007 posted:I don't think this holds up well in modern set design. You could draft all the "bombs" you wanted in triple BFZ but if I draft a UR synergy deck I'll most likely wipe the floor with you because your deck has 2 good cards and mine has 23 mediocre cards that combine to do awesome poo poo. Also aggro is completey busted in some sets (origins) and non-existent in others (ROE) Go ahead and draft all the 2cmc 2/2's you want in ROE. Modern draft really, really is made with the idea that you examine the set and think about how many colors the set is wanting you to play, what the major mechanics are and how decks with them will work, and what each color pairing wants to do. Almost every draft set is designed around drafting 2 colors, Khans was also even though they expect you to go 3. Khans was built around drafting an enemy color pair then splashing a 3rd color. The key to success was to realize they want you to draft BW then decide if your aggro mardu or midrange abzan, or UG morph or UG delve with temor or sultai etc. etc. The key to success in any draft format is recognizing what's open and what's good with what you have. BREAD is a simple way to remember what your priorities should be when evaluating cards quickly in a relative vacuum, such as early in pack 1 (when you have lots of choices and options) or later in the packs (when there's few choices).
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Jan 19, 2016 16:50
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Entropic posted:It's an unbreakable loop that requires the person controlling it to use up their clock time though, I think. Even better!
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Jan 19, 2016 16:54
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The Shortest Path posted:I'll fight you Brothers' War was only good because it was written by Jeff Grubb aka "The only man that writes books based on licensed properties that is Actually Good At Writing" Hmm, there's an idea. Wizards, hire Jeff Grubb to do Uncharted Realms. All of it.
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Jan 19, 2016 17:00
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kizudarake posted:Isn't Green Lake Games the home store for one of our goons? Nah, they aren't having problems, that's perfectly normal for them. From time to time they just won't bother to send cards you paid for.
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Jan 19, 2016 17:02
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I kind of want to play affinity now that the worst matchups are axed but I'm not sure how I feel about the prospect of more stony silences? How dead are junk decks in this world of tron? Please say very dead (because nobody else is gonna run stony silence I hope)
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Jan 19, 2016 17:08
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Zoness posted:I kind of want to play affinity now that the worst matchups are axed but I'm not sure how I feel about the prospect of more stony silences? Well considering that Stony Silence is now over 10 bucks I assume people are buying it to play with.
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Jan 19, 2016 17:11
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Zoness posted:I kind of want to play affinity now that the worst matchups are axed but I'm not sure how I feel about the prospect of more stony silences? Junk/Jund will never be dead. Though they are going to take a beating. I expect Jund to be better than Junk since it has easier mana to cast fulminator mage to back up its targeted discard package, Fulminator+Thoughtseize+Liliana is still good against tron decks, even if it isnt great.
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Jan 19, 2016 17:12
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Zoness posted:I kind of want to play affinity now that the worst matchups are axed but I'm not sure how I feel about the prospect of more stony silences? I mean every deck splashing white will run stony, and I expect to see more hatebears decks to counter the tron decks. I'm really hoping the amount of tron decks doesn't increase much, other decks will hopefully fill the void twin left behind. I've been having fun playing little kid abzan. Tron is miserable to play against.
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Jan 19, 2016 17:14
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mcmagic posted:Well considering that Stony Silence is now over 10 bucks I assume people are buying it to play with. It's poo poo like this that makes me hope WotC gets their heads out of their rear end and makes a MM16 with not poo poo availability and msrp because come the gently caress on.
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Jan 19, 2016 17:17
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Madmarker posted:Junk/Jund will never be dead. Though they are going to take a beating. I expect Jund to be better than Junk since it has easier mana to cast fulminator mage to back up its targeted discard package, Fulminator+Thoughtseize+Liliana is still good against tron decks, even if it isnt great. Yeah I mean I've always been an affinity player in modern so I'm really hoping for less junk more jund just because there's at least game against grudges. Losing the only bad game 1 matchup is pretty great unless everyone adjusts their sb's 
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Jan 19, 2016 17:17
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Madmarker posted:Junk/Jund will never be dead. Though they are going to take a beating. I expect Jund to be better than Junk since it has easier mana to cast fulminator mage to back up its targeted discard package, Fulminator+Thoughtseize+Liliana is still good against tron decks, even if it isnt great. I think you've got it completely backwards. Abzan and Jund both have bad matchups against the goldfish decks but if Affinity is going to be better, Abzan is MUCH better in that matchup as well as having a better matchup against the new Eldrazi deck because of it's access to Path. Red really is getting a lot worse in Modern.
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Jan 19, 2016 17:18
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Is it bad that I want to put Warping Wail in the sideboard of pretty much every Modern deck I own? The ability to counter spells while not being in blue seems really good, especially against decks with sorcery speed board wipes that aren't Supreme Verdict.
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Jan 19, 2016 17:23
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mcmagic posted:CABS is much better than BREAD in my opinion since most modern games in limited are about who curves out better. You're right about BFZ not really catering to it but if you're good CABS drafter you're going to be at least competitive in any format. I had a lot of success drafting CABS decks in BFZ. People were playing a lot of awful cards and letting good cards wheel because of synergy or whatever. Kilo147 posted:Drafts are fun as hell, but I've got to learn how to build better decks at them. Check this out: http://lrcast.com/limited-resources-286-top-10-traps-for-limited-and-how-to-avoid-them/ Limited Resources has a lot of good episodes but imo that is probably the single best one for a new-ish player who is looking to improve.
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Jan 19, 2016 17:25
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mcmagic posted:I think you've got it completely backwards. Abzan and Jund both have bad matchups against the goldfish decks but if Affinity is going to be better, Abzan is MUCH better in that matchup as well as having a better matchup against the new Eldrazi deck because of it's access to Path. Red really is getting a lot worse in Modern. I very well could, this is a HUGE shakeup in modern. But I have consistently been impressed by the resiliency of the Jund deck and I think the ability to more consistently cast fulminator is going to be a big determinant in which deck performs better in the field since we will have 2 big mana decks running around stealing wins. Jund can easily support a playset of Fulminator mages post board Junk's mana is much more stressed when trying to accomplish that feat.
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Jan 19, 2016 17:26
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MisterOblivious posted:Nah, they aren't having problems, that's perfectly normal for them. From time to time they just won't bother to send cards you paid for. That's a weird-rear end way to run a business.
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Jan 19, 2016 17:30
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Madmarker posted:I very well could, this is a HUGE shakeup in modern. But I have consistently been impressed by the resiliency of the Jund deck and I think the ability to more consistently cast fulminator is going to be a big determinant in which deck performs better in the field since we will have 2 big mana decks running around stealing wins. Abzan can play a playset of Fulminators too without much of an issue.
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Jan 19, 2016 17:34
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Yawgmoth posted:It holds up fine, you just have to evaluate cards based on what they actually say as well as where they fit into the mnemonic. "Bomb" doesn't mean "big fat dude", it means "a thing that will quickly win the game by itself if it goes unanswered". And no one's saying that drafting a bomb == guaranteed 3-0; it's just that having something that is a one-card winning strat in your deck alongside evasion and removal is better than evasion/removal alone. If you're drafting BFZ and you're in W/x allies, is there any reason to not want Gideon in your deck? I understand that bomb is a reference to the power level of a card, thanks.I just think BREAD focuses to much on evaluating each card by itself and not enough on a strategy. It works in older draft formats because they're much more just "what pile of good cards can I assemble" vs. "what deck am I building, what will it do, how will it win, which cards does it need to get there." BREAD you don't think ahead to what cards you want to pick etc. It is short sighted because telling new players BREAD and good doesn't teach them how to draft a winning deck. How does BREAD tell you whether you should take Ruination Guide or Cloud Manta in BFZ if you don't know if your working into UW fliers or Ux devoid? The answer seems obvious, "know whats open based on your picks and what your seeing in packs" but that is totally 100% not obvious to a new player, who catchy mnemonics are meant for. BREAD just tells them to try to evaluate a card based on is it powerful? is it removal? does it have evasion? I think a lot of players would choose a Cloud Manta over a Ruination Guide even if their first 2 picks were skyspawner and touch of the void because going down the list bombs, removal, evasion. jassi007 fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Jan 19, 2016 |
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Jan 19, 2016 17:40
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jassi007 posted:I understand that bomb is a reference to the power level of a card, thanks.I just think BREAD focuses to much on evaluating each card by itself and not enough on a strategy. It works in older draft formats because they're much more just "what pile of good cards can I assemble" vs. "what deck am I building, what will it do, how will it win, which cards does it need to get there." BREAD you don't think ahead to what cards you want to pick etc. It is short sighted because telling new players BREAD and good doesn't teach them how to draft a winning deck. It isn't that you are wrong, BREAD is just useful when you have no clue what else to do. If you are learning what to do BREAD is better than trying to decipher what synergies actually work together in a format.
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Jan 19, 2016 17:43
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jassi007 posted:I understand that bomb is a reference to the power level of a card, thanks.I just think BREAD focuses to much on evaluating each card by itself and not enough on a strategy. It works in older draft formats because they're much more just "what pile of good cards can I assemble" vs. "what deck am I building, what will it do, how will it win, which cards does it need to get there." BREAD you don't think ahead to what cards you want to pick etc. It is short sighted because telling new players BREAD and good doesn't teach them how to draft a winning deck.
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Jan 19, 2016 17:54
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Madmarker posted:It isn't that you are wrong, BREAD is just useful when you have no clue what else to do. If you are learning what to do BREAD is better than trying to decipher what synergies actually work together in a format. I don't think draft would be that enjoyable if you have so little idea as to what is going on that a catchy mnemonic is all you have to work with. I'd refer new players to things like LSV's card evaluations, and tell them a bit about the major archtypes. Allies, uw fliers, devoid decks etc etc. If that is to confusing for them, they're almost certainly going to 0-3 the draft. In that case I'd tell them to build whatever they think is sweet.
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Jan 19, 2016 17:56
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jassi007 posted:I don't think draft is that enjoyable if you have so little idea as to what is going on that a catchy mnemonic is all you have to work with. Perhaps, but everyone starts somewhere. And that is what BREAD is, a starting point.
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Jan 19, 2016 17:57
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To be fair when removal was good BREAD held up pretty well in synergy-based formats too. RIP good removal.
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Jan 19, 2016 17:58
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Madmarker posted:Junk/Jund will never be dead. Though they are going to take a beating. I expect Jund to be better than Junk since it has easier mana to cast fulminator mage to back up its targeted discard package, Fulminator+Thoughtseize+Liliana is still good against tron decks, even if it isnt great. Another thing jund has in the match-up is crumble to dust and I am getting a lot of mileage out of that card overall in the board.
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Jan 19, 2016 18:02
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kizudarake posted:That's a weird-rear end way to run a business. Yeah, I don't get it. They're in the low 80% satisfaction on Amazon so I expect they'll get kicked off there soon. They've improved from nearly 40% negative reviews over 30 days to 10%, but their 5 star reviews are padded with duplicates by repeat "customers." Hell, there are "Order was late. 5 Stars" reviews. They've already been kicked off TCGPlayer, twice, and Ebay.
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Jan 19, 2016 18:03
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Here is a primer for flashback drafts from the LR subreddit, for experienced players. https://np.reddit.com/r/lrcast/comments/40qxvk/mirrodinmirrodindarksteel_primer/ Maybe I'm odd but I just don't know how else someone can learn draft in an effective way other than spend some time really learning the set and the strategies, or just throw a bunch of money down a hole until you figure it out. If you're an experienced player general draft skill will probably do you alright but if you're just new to draft you have to expect to lose all the time or spend time learning how to draft a set by reading I just don't like telling them BREAD when i'd say it'd give a new player going from probably a 10-20% win rate to a 12-25% win rate. Its not that useful. Go watch a bunch of Kenji, Marshall, and LSV draft videos, listen to the LR set review and that'd probably put a new player into much higher win percentages without spending money on drafts. Or just be prepared to blow like 5-10 drafts worth of $$ before you get whats going on.
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Jan 19, 2016 18:03
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rabidsquid posted:Or the existence of Yawgmoth's Bargain Rosewater really wants to fix cards that were way out of line power-wise. It's not always the broken things. Fungus Elemental was an attempt to make a Wood Elemental that wasn't sad (he failed). He went back to look at Mana Drain with Plasm Capture and succeeded at making it not broken (granted, it's not very good either, but when it comes to counterspells that boost mana I'm okay with them not being good). Bargain was an attempt to fix Necro by making it cost 3 more. It didn't work. It probably didn't help it was in the same set as Academy Rector. Speaking of Necro and Bargain, Griselbrand was yet another attempt at that concept. This time they finally made something that merely ruled Legacy instead of needing banned from Legacy. I'm guessing its the 7-life lumps required to draw, his massive mana cost, and being a creature that could be Swords'd instead of an enchantment Rector could pass away to grab that kept it reasonable.
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Jan 19, 2016 18:06
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jassi007 posted:I don't think this holds up well in modern set design. You could draft all the "bombs" you wanted in triple BFZ but if I draft a UR synergy deck I'll most likely wipe the floor with you because your deck has 2 good cards and mine has 23 mediocre cards that combine to do awesome poo poo. Good job, you beat my 38 land deck.
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Jan 19, 2016 18:07
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jassi007 posted:but if you're just new to draft you have to expect to lose all the time or spend time learning how to draft a set by reading Out of curiosity, how long has it been since you were a new player and did the concept of BREAD even exist when you were new? Cause I'll tell you what, it's a pretty loving good starting point and way less grognardy than listening to podcasts, reading a shitload of subjective ratings written for people who have been playing for 10 years, or anything else you can do. Most people on this planet learn by doing, and yes that means throwing money down a hole which thankfully still sends you home with cards and packs and hopefully a good time. I'd argue that most people starting out with draft are looking to have fun not DOMINATE THEIR FNM, but to each his own I suppose.
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Jan 19, 2016 18:17
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I think they should design a MMA set built for sealed rather than draft, you can avoid having to pick between a money card or a good limited card and get constructed viable cards out there. And I just realized whilst thinking about modern unbans that Deathrite Shaman would be nuts with the Eldrazi deck.
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Jan 19, 2016 18:17
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MisterOblivious posted:Yeah, I don't get it. They're in the low 80% satisfaction on Amazon so I expect they'll get kicked off there soon. They've improved from nearly 40% negative reviews over 30 days to 10%, but their 5 star reviews are padded with duplicates by repeat "customers." Hell, there are "Order was late. 5 Stars" reviews. They've been kicked off amazon before and reincorporated iirc. They have lots of amazon devs play there and I know they've had someone go in and adjust their weighting so they always appear near the top of third party sellers on search results. One of their ex staff told me that 20% of the time people don't even notice that their cards never came. Easy money. We've all pretty much stopped playing there even though it's the closest and card exchange is loving depressing.
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Jan 19, 2016 18:19
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Sickening posted:Another thing jund has in the match-up is crumble to dust and I am getting a lot of mileage out of that card overall in the board. June used to be pretty bad against Tron (it still is) but when I went to a tron heavy meta I would main deck my fulminators and run extra basics to SB blood moon in more. The thing is sooner or later they will cast Wurmcoil or Karn. You usually can't kill them by turn 6 unless you got a big rear end goyf turn 2 but you are too busy tearing heir hand apart to worry about casting creatures on turn two since they can Karn turn 3 if you don't strip them out. The only time I beat Tron is turn 1 discard, turn 2 ghost quarter discard, turn 3 Fulminator and then Lilly lock them while casting your threats. Errant Gin Monks fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Jan 19, 2016 |
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Jan 19, 2016 18:20
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Before you attempt to play this card game, please spend the next ten hours watching a clinically depressed man clicking on fake cards in an excel spreadsheet
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Jan 19, 2016 18:21
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It depends on the format really. Dragons of Tarkir for instance had weak synergies, meaning that the format was mostly just 'draft good cards in two colors'. BFZ is at the opposite extreme where there is a lot of synergy based power and you almost certainly need to go in on a theme. The only real exception I've had is when I was playing with very new drafters and was just being passed premium commons and uncommons non-stop. Basically you probably want to look at the format for specific advice. Lets Pickle posted:How do people feel about Kozilek, the Great Distortion, either in Standard or Modern? I run Ulamog as a commander, and thought about switching to Kozilek, but ultimately decided against it. Kozilek compares very unfavorably to Ulamog (as a commander but also just as a magic card in general) in several ways: In modern I'm unsure. Ulamog is probably enough to win most of the time but maybe you'd be glad to have a Kozilek to search in some matchups.
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Jan 19, 2016 18:22
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jassi007 posted:I don't think draft would be that enjoyable if you have so little idea as to what is going on that a catchy mnemonic is all you have to work with. I'd refer new players to things like LSV's card evaluations, and tell them a bit about the major archtypes. Allies, uw fliers, devoid decks etc etc. If that is to confusing for them, they're almost certainly going to 0-3 the draft. In that case I'd tell them to build whatever they think is sweet. Yes you should not play and enjoy draft if you aren't good at it, and since you can't play it and learn you can't get good at it so you may as well just not draft ever. Says the grognard huffing and puffing with his rear end crack hanging out.
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Jan 19, 2016 18:25
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Errant Gin Monks posted:June used to be pretty bad against Tron (it still is) but when I went to a tron heavy meta I would main deck my fulminators and run extra basics to SB blood moon in more. The thing is sooner or later they will cast Wurmcoil or Karn. You usually can't kill them by turn 6 unless you got a big rear end goyf turn 2 but you are too busy tearing heir hand apart to worry about casting creatures on turn two since they can Karn turn 3 if you don't strip them out. Yeah basically. Discard, creature, lily/fulminator, and then command back fulminators or cumbles to continue lock. I have been tempted to run slaughter games as a 1x or 2x in the board to help with odd combo matchups and it so far fills in for the rest of the dead cards that I end up with in the 60. It does seem every good sideboard card you have for tron is equally good for the eldrazi matchup as well.
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Jan 19, 2016 18:29
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Someone in the local EDH Facebook group asked if the change to the mana generation rule in EDH (mana generated that's outside of your commanders color identity no longer changes to colorless) meant you could ignore color identity altogether for deck building, and was disappointed this wasn't the case I hate them and I hate that I have to pay any form of attention to them again
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Jan 19, 2016 18:31
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Literally The Worst posted:Someone in the local EDH Facebook group asked if the change to the mana generation rule in EDH (mana generated that's outside of your commanders color identity no longer changes to colorless) meant you could ignore color identity altogether for deck building, and was disappointed this wasn't the case Imagine if you didn't play EDH
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Jan 19, 2016 18:39
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Fuzzy Mammal posted:card exchange is loving depressing. Good lord yes, I lived like a mile away from Card Exchange but would much rather truck to Ballard or the Eastside to not play in such a garbage environment.
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Jan 19, 2016 18:42
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Telex posted:Out of curiosity, how long has it been since you were a new player and did the concept of BREAD even exist when you were new? Draft as a concept didn't exist when I started playing, let alone BREAD. I guess I'm just trying to imagine the new player that doesn't get discouraged spending a lot of money on drafts to lose over and over. If I really was trying to figure out how to draft and break into it I'd rather put in time than money. I like listening to podcasts and reading websites, that how I learn every game I play. I've read about and watched more games of X-Wing TMG than I've played them. I guess I'm a grognard?
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Jan 19, 2016 18:53
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