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computer parts posted:If droids are people, then one of my favorite movies has a slave auction, and that's Not Okay. It's actually more of a slave yard sale, but yeah.
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Jan 19, 2016 21:32
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droids being slaves isn't subtext or anything like that, its just literally text
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Jan 19, 2016 21:32
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Hbomberguy posted:I certainly don't remember you offering a good defense of Avengers. Care to try?    
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Jan 19, 2016 21:33
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Vintersorg posted:So we're supposed to care about the thousands of battle droids in the Clone Wars cartoon that get horribly killed each episode? You don't? Poor bastards never had a chance.
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Jan 19, 2016 21:33
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Vintersorg posted:So we're supposed to care about the thousands of battle droids in the Clone Wars cartoon that get horribly killed each episode? no, but we aren't suppose to care about the hundreds of storm troopers who get killed in rebels
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Jan 19, 2016 21:33
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Vintersorg posted:So we're supposed to care about the thousands of battle droids in the Clone Wars cartoon that get horribly killed each episode? You're not 'supposed to' do anything. You alone are responsible for your opinions.
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Jan 19, 2016 21:34
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i do care about those storm troopers though, those guys get brutally loving murdered jesus christ
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Jan 19, 2016 21:34
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like how could you watch the opening scenes of ANH and not come away with the conclusion that droids are, in this setting, people
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Jan 19, 2016 21:35
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Waffles Inc. posted:why do so many of you spergs have to be explicitly told how to feel about two armies being forced to fight one another like some perverse galactic loving rock 'em sock 'em robots? for god's sake you see thinking and feeling beings being made explicitly to fight in a futile war There's nothing spergy about requiring that a movie directly show you something before you're supposed to care about it. It's one thing for a film to tell us that Superman is a hero, it's another thing for him to rescue an old lady from a burning building and she smiles at him real big and says thanks Superman and everybody cheers as he flies off. It's also one thing for a movie to tell us that it's a terrible thing that all these poor clones and droids are fighting in a meaningless war and that's a tragedy for them, and it's another for a movie to show us this, and it's quite another to be neither told this nor shown this and it come up entirely as the "well it just makes sense" headcanon of fanboys Tezzor fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Jan 19, 2016 |
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Jan 19, 2016 21:35
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Vintersorg posted:So we're supposed to care about the thousands of battle droids in the Clone Wars cartoon that get horribly killed each episode? It's almost as though violence is a horrible thing. Oh wait, there's a titty, better censor that.
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Jan 19, 2016 21:35
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PBS Newshour posted:i do care about those storm troopers though, those guys get brutally loving murdered jesus christ Yeah Rebels has a lot more murder than I thought it would for a Disney show. One stormtrooper gets shot in the face at close range at one point.
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Jan 19, 2016 21:35
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computer parts posted:It's almost as though violence is a horrible thing. Oh wait, there's a titty, better censor that. Hello, NBC's Hannibal.
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Jan 19, 2016 21:36
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There was a gag in an episode where the battle droids talk about how they are all free thinkers unlike those other guys then all at the same time, "roger roger". Maybe the joke was they arent and are just mindless robots made with some odd personality.
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Jan 19, 2016 21:37
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PBS Newshour posted:so how long did this thread actually discuss the new movie? 3 weeks? You'll see more as the old salts eventually accept that New Star Wars exists. We've gone from "worthless fanservice" to "mediocre Avengers soap drama" to "intensely flawed film with bad editing". Compared to other popular movies this is quite speedy. RBA Starblade posted:Some people just can't appreciate the beauty of a good singularity engine. I'm not even joking here; if there existed, without any human intervention, a race of hardy aliens with a freaky alien design that were ging-ho about fighting, was loyal to humanity, and used artificial wombs to clone themselves. What would you do? If you stop the cloning banks you're effectively sterilizing the entire race. If you refuse then Humanity is out a loyal army and the aliens are out of a use they are cloned to believe is vital, even divinely declared. If your only response is "use them", then why are Kamino Clones immoral to use? They aren't press-ganged into uniformity (Obi even befriends one who has taken up a unique name and customized his armor), we never see them reluctant to fight, they are created without the Jedi or Republics' knowledge or consent, and for all intents and purposes are now their own unique race, complete with ingrained culture and values. Ask yourself this: do I have vastly different values towards both examples because one looks more human? Why do I presume to know what is going through their heads? Am I the space-racist, and not the prequel haters?
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Jan 19, 2016 21:37
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battle droids are on the cloud man
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Jan 19, 2016 21:40
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This isn't a defense of the film. In all of these shots, iirc, the camera is constantly moving, meaning even though these shots fit with the rule of thirds in these choice frames, a much larger portion of the time they don't - at that the shots themselves fail at visual storytelling. The avengers films feel like a documentary of fictional events rather than a story.
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Jan 19, 2016 21:41
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Prequels-hate is always accompanied with, like, "slavery doesn't look that bad?" and "what's wrong with being a serf?"
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Jan 19, 2016 21:41
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Vintersorg posted:There was a gag in an episode where the battle droids talk about how they are all free thinkers unlike those other guys then all at the same time, "roger roger". Maybe WE are the real droids.
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Jan 19, 2016 21:41
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Seriously, if you're arguing that there is an interesting deep potential undercurrent of story here with the sentient puppets being made to fight in a meaningless war that in no way benefits them, fine, but that should not be cause to defend the prequel films because they do an absolutely terrible job of showing or even mentioning this even the slightest bit
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Jan 19, 2016 21:42
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The whole "it's okay that the film doesn't care very much about clones/droids, they're sapient beings, so if you don't care you're the real monster" angle is absolutely bizarre to me. Films aren't ethical tests.
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Jan 19, 2016 21:42
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If we're supposed to care about the two peasants in Hidden Fortress, we're supposed to care about droids in Star Wars. It really is that simple.
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Jan 19, 2016 21:43
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As for the slave auction scene: I guess you could read it that way. I don't think it reflects on the protagonists poorly (seeing as both droids are free to loiter wherever afterwards, he's basically buying their freedom, an action with historical and film precedence), and considering that Anakin built C3-PO he's essentially rejoining his family. You don't really need that scene to notice that droids are treated poorly either.SuperMechagodzilla posted:Prequels-hate is always accompanied with, like, "slavery doesn't look that bad?" and "what's wrong with being a serf?" Why are you a space racist, SMG? What did tge Jangonians ever do to you? Why wont you let go of your hatred?
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Jan 19, 2016 21:45
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porfiria posted:The whole "it's okay that the film doesn't care very much about clones/droids, they're sapient beings, so if you don't care you're the real monster" angle is absolutely bizarre to me. Films aren't ethical tests. Films are also incapable of caring. The entire premise of "why should I care if the film doesn't" is faulty.
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Jan 19, 2016 21:45
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porfiria posted:The whole "it's okay that the film doesn't care very much about clones/droids, they're sapient beings, so if you don't care you're the real monster" angle is absolutely bizarre to me. Films aren't ethical tests. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkOqiweYfwQ
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Jan 19, 2016 21:45
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Terrorist Fistbump posted:Films are also incapable of caring. The entire premise of "why should I care if the film doesn't" is faulty. When people say "the film", don't they mean the filmmaker?
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Jan 19, 2016 21:47
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Neurolimal posted:As for the slave auction scene: I guess you could read it that way. I don't think it reflects on the protagonists poorly (seeing as both droids are free to loiter wherever afterwards, he's basically buying their freedom, an action with historical and film precedence), and considering that Anakin built C3-PO he's essentially rejoining his family. You don't really need that scene to notice that droids are treated poorly either. They are explicitly not allowed to loiter wherever. Luke leaves the farm to chase down his runaway slave, and hurts C-3P0 to find out his wherabouts. He was going to take them to get their memories wiped the next day.
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Jan 19, 2016 21:48
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porfiria posted:The whole "it's okay that the film doesn't care very much about clones/droids, they're sapient beings, so if you don't care you're the real monster" angle is absolutely bizarre to me. porfiria posted:Films aren't ethical tests.
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Jan 19, 2016 21:49
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The basic point of the movies is that everyone unwittingly serves Palpatine. Remember when the Jedi and Wookies and droids, who all thought themselves free agents, were suddenly 'deactivated' by remote control?
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Jan 19, 2016 21:49
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I'm sure a lot of people here think Starship Troopers is way to on the nose, etc etc. (It is). Star Wars Prequels are, apparently, way too not on the nose, at least for 99% of the people who saw them. It just seems weird to me to judge a movie based on the politics it espouses. Like, Conan the Barbarian is abhorrent but it still owns. porfiria fucked around with this message at 21:52 on Jan 19, 2016 |
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Jan 19, 2016 21:50
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Empress Theonora posted:like how could you watch the opening scenes of ANH and not come away with the conclusion that droids are, in this setting, people And, even if C-3PO, R2D2, and other droids like them are self-aware, is that necessarily the case for all droids, including hive-controlled battledroids? It's admittedly been a long time since I've seen the prequels (I plan to correct this soon), but I vaguely recall the clones being described as superior to droids -because- of their individual creative capacity for problem solving (i.e., because the clones, unlike the seaparatist battledroids, are self-aware individuals).
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Jan 19, 2016 21:50
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Hbomberguy posted:
I like to think that Blade Runner itself is the Voight-Kampff test.
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Jan 19, 2016 21:50
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porfiria posted:
Is it really abhorrent if you think it owns? Or put another way, do you think something is bad if you also wish you could be like that? Ersatz posted:And, even if C-3PO, R2D2, and other droids like them are self-aware, is that necessarily the case for all droids, including hive-controlled battledroids? It's admittedly been a long time since I've seen the prequels (I plan to correct this soon), but I vaguely recall the clones being described as superior to droids -because- of their individual creative capacity for problem solving (i.e., because the clones, unlike the seaparatist battledroids, are self-aware individuals). I don't recall that line but that is very funny in light of Palpatine literally punching in a "kill all the Jedi" command that they have to follow.
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Jan 19, 2016 21:52
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Tezzor posted:Seriously, if you're arguing that there is an interesting deep potential undercurrent of story here with the sentient puppets being made to fight in a meaningless war that in no way benefits them, fine, but that should not be cause to defend the prequel films because they do an absolutely terrible job of showing or even mentioning this even the slightest bit "Those analysis droids only focus on symbols. Ha! I would think you Jedi should have more respect for the difference between knowledge, and wisdom." "Well, Dex, if droids could think, we wouldn't be here, would we?"
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Jan 19, 2016 21:52
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RBA Starblade posted:I like to think that Blade Runner itself is the Voight-Kampff test. I like to think of it as a film.
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Jan 19, 2016 21:53
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Terrorist Fistbump posted:Films are also incapable of caring. The entire premise of "why should I care if the film doesn't" is faulty. How about "why should I care if I am given no reason to care and also the person who is the writer and director does not care" George Lucas needed troops it was PG for our heroes to kill tons of in battle scenes with their lightsabers in a children's movie, so he made them robots. A classic enemy type in cartoons because it's totally A-OK to cut them apart by the dozens. He needed to have clones in there somewhere because it's mentioned at some point, and they serve almost exactly the same purpose as guys who can bite it by the thousands in big battle sequences and it's ok for kids to see it. That's as far as the logic went there. Questions about the morality of war between two slave armies is sure an interesting philosophical consideration that he did not put anywhere in the movies or appear to think about at all
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Jan 19, 2016 21:53
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I just cant believe that so many people would rally to the defense of Droids while heartlessly treating Clones like pitiable defenseless bubble-wrap people. We were wrong all along; the PT isn't about racism, it's about Reverse Racism
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Jan 19, 2016 21:54
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Hbomberguy posted:I like to think of it as a film. quote:
It can be both!
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Jan 19, 2016 21:55
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computer parts posted:I don't recall that line but that is very funny in light of Palpatine literally punching in a "kill all the Jedi" command that they have to follow.
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Jan 19, 2016 21:55
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Red posted:When people say "the film", don't they mean the filmmaker? I have no idea what other people mean. But either way, it's not possible to divine a filmmaker's intentions, opinions, or feelings from the films they make with a reasonable degree of accuracy. It's pure speculation. To the original point, it's still nonsensical to say "The filmmaker doesn't care, why should I?" as though your own caring, or emotions generally, ought to be based at all on another person's. Like this statement Tezzor posted:How about "why should I care if I am given no reason to care and also the person who is the writer and director does not care"
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Jan 19, 2016 21:56
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computer parts posted:Is it really abhorrent if you think it owns? Or put another way, do you think something is bad if you also wish you could be like that? I think a lot of it comes down to how aware the movie is of what it's doing. Like John Milius knows he's a nutcase and doubles down on it. George Lucas doesn't know he's afraid of women so it just comes off as weird in the movies.
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Jan 19, 2016 21:56
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