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Luke doesn't need to have failed Ben, all that is necessary is that Ben believes Luke failed him somehow.
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Jan 20, 2016 05:15
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NecroMonster posted:It's just funny I'm watching this movie and Maz shows up and I'm all ready to find out which sort of hackneyed racial stereotype she is and the very nearly first thing out of her mouth is a joke about Chewie being her boyfriend that could have come right out of the mouth of one of the two major Nun stereotypes in fiction. Because she's pretty much the "magical negro" stereotype. Someone comparing her earlier to the Oracle in The Matrix was spot on. I don't really see your priest/nun interpretation, she runs a bar and has made herself a saint. When she takes off her glasses to talk to Rey she's a kindly old grandma with words of wisdom.
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Jan 20, 2016 05:17
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NecroMonster posted:Luke doesn't need to have failed Ben, all that is necessary is that Ben believes Luke failed him somehow. That's fair. Hopefully Luke didn't finger him or anything, that's an EU plotline I'm not anxious to see rehashed.
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Jan 20, 2016 05:20
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Frackie Robinson posted:Hopefully Luke didn't finger him Excuse me?
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Jan 20, 2016 05:21
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piratepilates posted:Excuse me? MAZ KNEW
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Jan 20, 2016 05:24
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NecroMonster posted:That one is simple. Luke gathered some people who knew about/of the Jedi ways to help him teach the new generation. Snoke was one of them. Ah, and Max Von Sydow is another. The new Jedi order is in disarray after a school shooting, Luke disbands it and Max goes to Jakku.
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Jan 20, 2016 05:29
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Maz might have also been involved in the Jedi school. But this is why leia and han know snoke by name and blame him for Ben's "fall". Because he was loving there and everyone knew him. They are the New Order because they want to found a New Jedi Order. Ben is desperate to follow in Vader's footsteps because he sees the final part of Anikens journy, the reforming of the Jedi Order, as incomplete, because Luke refused to actually bring it back "the way it was supposed to be". He's upset because Luke(as) didn't give him the Starwars he wanted. NecroMonster fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Jan 20, 2016 |
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Jan 20, 2016 05:32
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Neurolimal posted:I don't subscribe to the idea that Luke fell prey to PT mistakes. It's not like he just walked into a slave hut and picked up a mentally ill kid. His friends' child was having trouble and they looked to him for help; what was he going to do? He certainly wasn't brainwashing them as little kids. What the prequels depict is that the Jedi orthodoxy really only takes root with the ones they do brainwash as little kids; as soon as they got someone who had lived a bit, their philosophy proved inadequate to help him deal with his own humanity, much less with the heavy expectations placed on him. Maybe if he'd brainwashed his nephew...? But, of course, the whole point of the character is that he wouldn't. Luke surely attempted to hew closer to the Jedi ideal, but he tried to do it without a full understanding of how his predecessors hosed up so bad that they created an institution that twisted all their good intentions into actions that were the exact opposite of the right thing at every opportunity. Obi-Wan thought that the whole tragedy happened because he, himself, had failed to do right by Anakin, and he was still pretty gung-ho about the necessity of killing everybody called Darth. Yoda at least realized that everything he knew was wrong, but he just doubled down on the idea on detaching completely from worldly ties, which is something that's easy to say but didn't really help Anakin when he on ther verge of a nervous breakdown right there in his office. Luke might find that there was once some substance to the Jedi ideal and identify the origin of the corruption. Or, more likely in my estimation, he will find nothing, but together with Rey will develop something new or at least develop the courage to keep trying to maintain light in the galaxy. A ballsy ending might be to dispense with the "Jedi" word, like how the new guys on the red team aren't Sith any more.
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Jan 20, 2016 05:37
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SHISHKABOB posted:I disagree, because I believe that the assertion that "perspectives are true" is not true. It seems to clear to me that people can be wrong in their subjectivity, even about interpretation of art. For example, it would be wrong to interpret The Scream, by Edvard Munch, as "representative of a sense of control, concreteness of one's view of self and exterior". Hell yeah
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Jan 20, 2016 05:39
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Is this thread going to cover all Star Wars-edness, or is Rogue One getting its own?
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Jan 20, 2016 05:48
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Bongo Bill posted:Luke might find that there was once some substance to the Jedi ideal and identify the origin of the corruption. Or, more likely in my estimation, he will find nothing, but together with Rey will develop something new or at least develop the courage to keep trying to maintain light in the galaxy. A ballsy ending might be to dispense with the "Jedi" word, like how the new guys on the red team aren't Sith any more. That would be baller as hell. I guess A New Hope / The Phantom Menace / The Force Awakens is a sort of thesis / antithesis / synthesis triplet, so Episode IX's title would have to move beyond the Sith / Jedi dichotomy. VIII's title would have to be something beyond Attacking and Striking Back (something with Alliance/Joining/Truce?). It seems possible to me that the Resistance and First Order (and/or Rey and Kylo) will team up (against Snoke?) in VIII. They went out of their way to humanize Kylo and the stormtroopers in TFA, and a ton of the imagery is good from evil, light from darkness.
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Jan 20, 2016 06:09
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Madurai posted:Is this thread going to cover all Star Wars-edness, or is Rogue One getting its own? Rogue One will get its own thread
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Jan 20, 2016 06:15
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If nothing else, Snoke is definitely a pretty interesting hook for the new trilogy. There's a lot to his visual design, vocal performance, and fatherly attitude which invites loads of theories. They've certainly set the bar high with how great Kylo was, and I hope the next two directors go along with the idea of New Sith being way more morally grey than the Emperor and Vader.
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Jan 20, 2016 06:21
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Neurolimal posted:If nothing else, Snoke is definitely a pretty interesting hook for the new trilogy.
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Jan 20, 2016 06:23
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To be fair the early shot of Snoke making him look like some kind of evil Lincoln Memorial was pretty great.
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Jan 20, 2016 06:24
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Yaws posted:I support Tezzor. I think he's showing more insight and gumption than any of the PT defenders as evidenced by the overly defensive and pitiful responses he's getting. He's hit a nerve with people because he's largely correct and that scares people. lol finally someone insightful and unapologetic enough to post exact quotes from RLM. How can we exist without this visionary for 3 days? Why don't we just embed clips from those reviews on every page, interspersed with some really antagonistic sarcasm. That should about cover the whole Tezzor experience pretty nicely.
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Jan 20, 2016 06:25
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Harime Nui posted:Rogue One will get its own thread Do we really need two threads to discuss the prequels in?
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Jan 20, 2016 06:26
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Hbomberguy posted:It's so unique! I never thought they would make the villain an old man who communicates mostly through holograms! Woah, you mean the movie with homages towards its predecessors and meta themes regarding Star Wars' legacy and its fans....has the emperor figure using something the previous emperor used?!?!? Good catch bombergut. You'll grow up to be a fine SMG, one day.
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Jan 20, 2016 06:27
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RBA Starblade posted:Do we really need two threads to discuss the prequels in? We'll talk more about Godzilla.
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Jan 20, 2016 06:32
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Guy A. Person posted:lol finally someone insightful and unapologetic enough to post exact quotes from RLM. How can we exist without this visionary for 3 days? If there's one thing this thread has taught me it's that we all have different opinions and I'm gay 
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Jan 20, 2016 06:38
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Snoke is the third-worst character in Star Wars, after Maz and Hux.
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Jan 20, 2016 06:42
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Hbomberguy posted:It's so unique! I never thought they would make the villain an old man who communicates mostly through holograms! Snoke is presented like the Emperor, but now that you wrote this I've realized that in his relationship to Kylo, he's much more like Obi-Wan—also an old man who communicates mostly through holograms.
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Jan 20, 2016 06:45
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They can't all be Droid R5-234234 SMG.
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Jan 20, 2016 06:45
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Oh sweet we're making lists! My list of worst Star Wars characters: 1. Nute Gunray and Jar Jar Binks* (tied) 2. Anakin Skywalker 3. Count Dooku I mulled over this for hours and I think it's impeccable *Jar Jar Binks might be the most ill-conceived character in the history of cinema Yaws fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Jan 20, 2016 |
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Jan 20, 2016 06:49
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1. Dengar, that fat gently caress 2. Zuckuss. That's what he'll do for $50 3. That horrible thing in Jaba's palace with the lips 4. Twelve tit lady. Does Lucas have like a window into my nightmares? 5. That Sand Person who lays bets with his mates he can snipe podracers. What a sonofabitch.
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Jan 20, 2016 06:50
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Lord Krangdar posted:To be fair the early shot of Snoke making him look like some kind of evil Lincoln Memorial was pretty great. I agree. At the same time, Serkis's actual performance was surprisingly lackluster.
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Jan 20, 2016 06:55
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Neurolimal posted:Woah, you mean the movie with homages towards its predecessors and meta themes regarding Star Wars' legacy and its fans....has the emperor figure using something the previous emperor used?!?!? It's a unique hook but also a direct reference and homage to the previous films! What a unique master/apprentice, surrogate father/son story we've only seen before six times!
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Jan 20, 2016 07:00
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Cnut the Great posted:I agree.
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Jan 20, 2016 07:05
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He was a hologram in one two-minute scene and mentioned in one or two other scenes. I'm sure it will get better, like with Palpatine.
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Jan 20, 2016 07:25
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MrMojok posted:He was a hologram in one two-minute scene and mentioned in one or two other scenes. I'm sure it will get better, like with Palpatine. He was in three scenes directly, as best I can remember ("You must kill your father, Han Solo", "Bring the girl to me", and "Bring Kylo to finish his training").
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Jan 20, 2016 07:43
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Andy Serkis as Snoke is basically just Dr. Claw from Inspector Gadget. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1j7lyRnxVE
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Jan 20, 2016 07:44
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The emperor's first appearance in Empire was under a minute, but it was the impetus for the central conflict for the next two acts of the film. When Luke and Vader's relatio ship is revealed in the third act, the conversation between the emperor and Vader gains even more significance: Vader and the emperor are at odds over what Luke represents for the future of the galaxy. The tension established in this short but pivotal scene persists until Vader is redeemed by throwing the emperor into the pit. Like the Death Star conference room scene, it's a masterwork of economical storytelling.
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Jan 20, 2016 07:50
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MrMojok posted:He was a hologram in one two-minute scene and mentioned in one or two other scenes. I'm sure it will get better, like with Palpatine. Palpatine was good from the very beginning. His one scene in Empire is strong and to-the-point. Snoke generates speculation about his origins or whatever, because the actual character that appears in the film is both puzzling and unsatisfying.
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Jan 20, 2016 07:56
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Yaws posted:Oh sweet we're making lists! Nute Gunray is awesome. You can argue all day about how racist his design is or isn't, but he's ultimately the closest thing we get to a sympathetic villain in the whole prequels.
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Jan 20, 2016 08:56
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Fucker posted:f Star Wars was all I had access to as a child in terms of sci-fi I probably would become one of those crazy fanboys, but thankfully I had access to anime from very early on in my youth years that my mental balance is very stable. Knight this man(?)
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Jan 20, 2016 09:22
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Tezzor owns. Good points and, even more importantly, lead to some discussion. Why do we even put up with SMG? All he does is find similar screen caps and claim they were intentional or quotes some eu bullshit zizek character like its gospel. Cnut is like a tezzor/SMG hybrid. For me he's the sweet spot.
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Jan 20, 2016 09:45
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rear end Catchcum posted:Tezzor owns. Good points name one. Being so retarded you literally can't express empathy unless you're told to isn't one of them.
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Jan 20, 2016 10:37
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rear end Catchcum posted:Tezzor owns. Good points and, even more importantly, lead to some discussion. SMG isn't a hostile dickhead, for one. He's also insightful in ways Tezzor wasn't; "nuh uh" isn't interesting stuff. Also SMG provides textual evidence and support to his claims. Like it or not, both him and Cnut are at least thought provoking
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Jan 20, 2016 10:38
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How long was Luke on Dagobah?
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Jan 20, 2016 10:38
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PittTheElder posted:Nute Gunray is awesome. You can argue all day about how racist his design is or isn't, but he's ultimately the closest thing we get to a sympathetic villain in the whole prequels. I'm not kidding. My love for Palpatine is bulbous and worrisome.
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Jan 20, 2016 11:24
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