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Man Whore posted:I don't ever want vehicles in a bethesda game. You don't know what your missing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gu6fcLA26Yg
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Jan 20, 2016 02:52
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I like the believe that the rest of the world is fine and it's just America that is hosed, but because the US government pre-war were just such big assholes nobody feels like letting them join in on the rest of the world again. So the next Fallout, you play someone from Sweden or Japan or some poo poo and you're sent in to document how hosed up the Americans got with 200 years of radiation and being driven insane by their own hyper-capitalist vault mindfucks.
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Jan 20, 2016 03:29
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Wide open spaces are fine if there's a way to bypass those wide open spaces. Fallout's fast travel does that perfectly well.
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Jan 20, 2016 03:30
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Lt. Danger posted:Just finished. Jesus Christ I had to stop playing it and I think I was near the end. I decided to side with the Railroad and they made me kill all my cool friends in the Brotherhood of Steel and blow up their zeppelin. It was just really unsatisfying, I felt bad about it, and I was certain i'd get back to the basement and they'd tell me ok, now if you really want the slaves to be free, you have to shoot your son in his face. I'd say that Emil Pagliarulo is just trying to drive home "War never changes" as a moral, but he wrote a similarly uncomfortable ending to the civil war in Skyrim, which was especially egregious considering one of the best parts of that game was a diplomatic scene where you broker a peace agreement between the rival factions. I just really hope Bethesda axes that guy because I want someone else at the helm for Elder Scrolls 6.
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Jan 20, 2016 03:35
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TresTristesTigres posted:I had to stop playing it and I think I was near the end. I decided to side with the Railroad and they made me kill all my cool friends in the Brotherhood of Steel and blow up their zeppelin. It was just really unsatisfying, I felt bad about it, and I was certain i'd get back to the basement and they'd tell me ok, now if you really want the slaves to be free, you have to shoot your son in his face. I'd say that Emil Pagliarulo is just trying to drive home "War never changes" as a moral, but he wrote a similarly uncomfortable ending to the civil war in Skyrim, which was especially egregious considering one of the best parts of that game was a diplomatic scene where you broker a peace agreement between the rival factions. I just really hope Bethesda axes that guy because I want someone else at the helm for Elder Scrolls 6. Exact same experience here. Game just loses all real tension halfway through. The Institute's grand evil plan is to build a nuclear reactor and tell the rest of the Commonwealth to stop picking on them. The main threat the Brotherhood poses is the constant rain of exploding vertibirds falling overhead. The Railroad doesn't really make sense as a concept. It feels like the game was written around the central twist, but they didn't take that anywhere either, so the game just limps to a finish as the player runs out of main quest. I remember when Pagliarulo was a game design superstar for his work on the Thief games. Seems like he's better at more focused design?
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Jan 20, 2016 03:57
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Man Whore posted:No they aren't, there's live trees in both fallout 3 and New vegas. Also I assumed some of the trees in Boston are alive but since the game takes place in October they don't have any leaves. time passes in the game as evidenced by the (single) reactive (and cool) element: christmas in Diamond City
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Jan 20, 2016 04:57
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Sylink posted:I'd love to see something more Mad Max scale with large wastelands and scenic areas. Like the great plains region, and have very few cities standing. And traverse in some vehicle. South Dakota.
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Jan 20, 2016 05:08
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Alberta Tar Sands
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Jan 20, 2016 05:10
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Mukulu posted:South Dakota. Badlands and Black Hills own also you could do something cool with the independent Lakota
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Jan 20, 2016 05:14
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Pellisworth posted:Badlands and Black Hills own yeah but then there is everything between the badlands and black hills which do not own. EDIT- wow those are a lot closer to each other than I remember. As someone who spent like a month in Valentine, gently caress THE GREAT PLAINS. Man Whore fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Jan 20, 2016 |
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Jan 20, 2016 05:45
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Travelling the Great Plains wouldn't suck too much in oh say, a Highwayman.
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Jan 20, 2016 05:58
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Lt. Danger posted:Exact same experience here. Game just loses all real tension halfway through. The evil plan beyond the reactor, though, is to continue doing really hosed-up experiments on the people of the Commonwealth and continuing to create sentient life forms with thoughts and feelings as slaves, all while claiming that they only have humanity's best interests in mind yet also saying "yeah gently caress everyone else they'll be fodder for our incomprehensibly dumb ideas".
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Jan 20, 2016 06:01
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TresTristesTigres posted:I'd say that Emil Pagliarulo is just trying to drive home "War never changes" as a moral, but he wrote a similarly uncomfortable ending to the civil war in Skyrim, which was especially egregious considering one of the best parts of that game was a diplomatic scene where you broker a peace agreement between the rival factions. I don't even remember the ending to the civil war. The faction leader from the opening cutscene was such a non-character, that I had no reservations about ending him at the first available opportunity. Just like this game. I didn't even bother exploring any of the Institute quest lines. I showed up, took the tour, left to level up some companions, then came back and wiped that place out with a rocket launcher that did bonus crit to undamaged enemies.
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Jan 20, 2016 06:01
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Neeksy posted:The evil plan beyond the reactor, though, is to continue doing really hosed-up experiments on the people of the Commonwealth and continuing to create sentient life forms with thoughts and feelings as slaves, all while claiming that they only have humanity's best interests in mind yet also saying "yeah gently caress everyone else they'll be fodder for our incomprehensibly dumb ideas". There's actually a ton of internal disagreement on all that and you become the person that decides policy so guess which side will win.
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Jan 20, 2016 06:08
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Is there a modding thread for this game yet?
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Jan 20, 2016 06:20
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yes
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Jan 20, 2016 06:20
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http://lmgtfy.com/?q=somethingawful+fallout+4+modding+thread but apparently archived because there wasn't enough interest yet 
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Jan 20, 2016 06:23
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hobbesmaster posted:There's actually a ton of internal disagreement on all that and you become the person that decides policy so guess which side will win. The point, I think, is that the Institute wasn't thought through at all. Hmm let's see, the Brotherhood has taken over OK, we have the Beryllium Macguffin and our reactor is running, time to make a radio announcement to the whole Commonwealth. Hey, you're the director for no reason at all, you do it. Tell them that life is going to be great... or maybe that they'll be living under our heel, either or. And of course, whatever you choose, nothing whatsoever changes. The people on the street don't care either. "Hey, hear about that bar that's just for raiders?" Yeah, I have, but what about that radio announcement two hours ago that we're all the Institute's bitch? Nope, no one comments.
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Jan 20, 2016 06:28
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JawKnee posted:http://lmgtfy.com/?q=somethingawful+fallout+4+modding+thread http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3752120 its actually still active
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Jan 20, 2016 06:35
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Gynovore posted:The point, I think, is that the Institute wasn't thought through at all. Hmm let's see, the Brotherhood has taken over It occurs to me that "synth suiciders" makes a lot more sense than super mutants.
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Jan 20, 2016 07:06
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The fact that each faction contains elements of stupid and good really sears home the game's ending in a way that is clearly intentional in that is perhaps too ham-fisted 'mature' for Fallout as a franchise. Like, yes, good people die in war, but that means I want to avoid that. Don't write a plot where I'm forced to fly the nuclear death-drone into the orphanage even if that's something that might actually happen in a 'war'. That's the other thing. I never really believed at any point that these three factions were at war with each other. Like, yes, the Institute is clearly at odds with the Railroad but the Brotherhood is introduced into those storylines with basically 'lol brotherhood watch out'. It isn't a 'war' at all, the Brotherhood just kind of showed up and is treated as a completely new and unknown foe by all people involved. It's dumb. It has all the subtlety of firebomb. I feel like 'there's no way to resolve this plot without annihilating hundreds of uninvolved people' is the new, 'why can't I send Fawkes into the reactor?' Good luck patching that though.
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Jan 20, 2016 07:13
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Gynovore posted:Hey, you're the director for no reason at all, you do it. To be fair, the overwhelming majority of promotions you get in FO4 are seemingly for no reason at all. Despite the history of the post-apocalypse Commonwealth being just one giant cautionary tale about how lovely leadership can gently caress up even the most noble organizations, factions are tripping over themselves to promote a random nobody. My personal favorite promotion comes after Blind Betrayal where I've basically committed treason with the Brotherhood of Steel by harboring a synth who knows everything about the Brotherhood's operations, failing to kill him when explicitly ordered to by Maxson, then potentially undermining Maxson's authority with the Brotherhood by having Maxson lie to everyone about Danse's death. Maxson's response? Promoting the guy who's only there because Danse vouched for him to Paladin because they now have an opening (making Maxson either the dumbest person in the wasteland or the person with the greatest sense of irony).
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Jan 20, 2016 07:31
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you, the player, are the dumbest person in the wasteland everyone else are just vague improvements on A*
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Jan 20, 2016 07:38
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GamingHyena posted:To be fair, the overwhelming majority of promotions you get in FO4 are seemingly for no reason at all. Despite the history of the post-apocalypse Commonwealth being just one giant cautionary tale about how lovely leadership can gently caress up even the most noble organizations, factions are tripping over themselves to promote a random nobody. Well considering the number of super mutants/synths/ghouls you've killed to get that far maybe he thinks giving you some shinier armor will make you do more of that (note that you are not placed in command of anything or given any additional authority) The institute thing is father being a weird dictator plus guilt I guess?
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Jan 20, 2016 08:04
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Basically it seems like the conflict between the organizations is artificially forced either for gameplay reasons (so each ending is equal in murderous gameplay/challenge) or to fit the nihilist theme that everyone is an rear end in a top hat, equally, at all times (Bioshock Infinite's "both sides are equally dumb, even the people against slavery and racism!"). The only way to have this make sense is to make each organization have an unreasonable, and frankly illogical, myopia that betrays the sense of purpose and ideals the organizations hold dear. Worse, this is written in such a way that even if one is charitable with their thematic reading, it comes across not as a thesis about hypocrisy, but of blind idiocy.
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Jan 20, 2016 08:24
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Neeksy posted:Basically it seems like the conflict between the organizations is artificially forced either for gameplay reasons (so each ending is equal in murderous gameplay/challenge) or to fit the nihilist theme that everyone is an rear end in a top hat, equally, at all times (Bioshock Infinite's "both sides are equally dumb, even the people against slavery and racism!"). The only way to have this make sense is to make each organization have an unreasonable, and frankly illogical, myopia that betrays the sense of purpose and ideals the organizations hold dear. Unfortunately, you need the good along with the bad to give players a favorite to side with.
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Jan 20, 2016 10:03
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FronzelNeekburm posted:I could see them looking at complaints in FO3 about Good BoS vs. Bad Enclave, then praise for New Vegas' moral shades of gray, and deciding that "you choose one of these heavily-flawed factions" was the part people liked. But this faction gives you vertibirds, and this faction gives you relay grenades, and this faction gives you ballistic weaveeee!! It's a really tough moral choice! Phetz fucked around with this message at 12:27 on Jan 20, 2016 |
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Jan 20, 2016 12:25
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FronzelNeekburm posted:I could see them looking at complaints in FO3 about Good BoS vs. Bad Enclave, then praise for New Vegas' moral shades of gray, and deciding that "you choose one of these heavily-flawed factions" was the part people liked. I think they hosed up because they only thought about this in terms of "good and bad" in this case. They just didn't care how the bad actually fit the groups in question. There has to be a coherent/consistent internal logic to the factions, guided by their philosophy. Seeing an ideal breaking apart under its own terms is more insightful, more interesting than just stapling a bunch of random bad things to it in order to balance the scale. It violates the integrity of the characters, and feels arbitrary, or forced. To be charitable to the intent of FO4's main plot, they want the player to feel uncomfortable and conflicted by the choices; a possibly powerful message about how human beings are historically thrust into situations where there are no good answers and victories become pyrrhic. Mama Murphy outright states that the player is going to have to make such a choice, no matter how difficult, because the Commonwealth cannot exist in a vacuum of leadership or direction indefinitely. To that end, they didn't want to diminish this theme by giving you the possibility of resolving the conflict peacefully or cooperatively. The violence of the past was unavoidable due to the nature of their governments' ideologies, and this new war has learned nothing from that apocalyptic event. "War never changes." That is likely their intent with the way they locked the player out of a "good ending". However, as I've pointed out earlier, the way they had to make the factions behave in order to fit this theme was inorganic to the point of comical. The faction leaders put you in charge and make idiotic strategic decisions because thou must.
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Jan 20, 2016 12:42
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Phetz posted:But this faction gives you vertibirds, and this faction gives you relay grenades, and this faction gives you ballistic weaveeee!! It's a really tough moral choice! The only faction that doesn't give you vertibirds is the institute.
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Jan 20, 2016 12:44
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Neeksy posted:The evil plan beyond the reactor, though, is to continue doing really hosed-up experiments on the people of the Commonwealth and continuing to create sentient life forms with thoughts and feelings as slaves, all while claiming that they only have humanity's best interests in mind yet also saying "yeah gently caress everyone else they'll be fodder for our incomprehensibly dumb ideas". Sure sure sure, but that is basically "we built a reactor, now leave us alone." Like, Caesar had a big and stupid plan to have the NCR and the Legion destroy each other and become a stronger, gentler nation because of it. House was reawakening his Old World army and forcibly uprooting both invading armies from the Mojave. Even terribly-written Fallout 3 had the Enclave conspiring to seize control of the water supply in DC and *sigh* genocide everyone with mutant FEV. The Institute's grand plan makes sense, but it's also dull and lacks any threat. The Brotherhood are scarier, and they're completely ineffectual. I think what I like best about the game is the central theme of transience - you lived in a world of plenty, then the apocalypse happened and you lost everything. You're this defrosted caveman who time-travelled to the future and can never go back, as the ending makes explicit. You spend the game looking for your son, only to find you'll never see him grow up as he's already an old man. You trawl through Kellogg's memories and see a lifetime of regrets, lost happiness and dropped connections that created a monster. The game hammers you over the head with this before/after tempus fugit "all things must pass" stuff right at the beginning of the game with the Sanctuary Hills stuff. So of course you, the man out of time, team up with one of three increasingly anachronistic historical re-enactment factions to destroy your son's work, humanity's robot successors and the self-proclaimed future of the Commonwealth, ushering in a continued age of apocalyptic wasteland for all. gently caress yeah, Father Time can suck it. I just wish Bethesda were also in on the joke.
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Jan 20, 2016 12:54
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For me, I think the most jarring part of the main plot is how they handled chasing Shaun. It's like they came up with the basic premise and the twist (lol he's an old man!) and then just threw together whatever plot points they could think of to get from a to b. It's like a bad lie that you have to keep expanding on to hide the truth, even though you know it's getting ridiculous.
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Jan 20, 2016 14:55
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GamingHyena posted:To be fair, the overwhelming majority of promotions you get in FO4 are seemingly for no reason at all. Despite the history of the post-apocalypse Commonwealth being just one giant cautionary tale about how lovely leadership can gently caress up even the most noble organizations, factions are tripping over themselves to promote a random nobody. Wow really you kept him alive? Danse even told you that you have to kill him. I didn't really even think twice about killing him. Its what a soldier in the Brotherhood would do in that situation and if you decide to kill him he actually says he's proud of you and that it's the right thing to do.
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Jan 20, 2016 15:26
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unless you romance him, what's the point of even living after that.
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Jan 20, 2016 16:04
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Phetz posted:But this faction gives you vertibirds, and this faction gives you relay grenades, and this faction gives you ballistic weaveeee!! It's a really tough moral choice! No it's not. Ballistic weave fits better with my hatred of the power armor UI.
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Jan 20, 2016 16:08
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Toriori posted:vehicular travel in a Bethesda fallout game sounds like a disaster waiting to happen Vehicular travel in Fallout 2 was a disaster, until a couple of patches later.
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Jan 20, 2016 16:22
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I liked the little mini quest in Fallout 2 where if you park on the strip in New Reno like an idiot, your car gets stolen.
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Jan 20, 2016 16:30
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MarshyMcFly posted:Wow really you kept him alive? Danse even told you that you have to kill him. I didn't really even think twice about killing him. Its what a soldier in the Brotherhood would do in that situation and if you decide to kill him he actually says he's proud of you and that it's the right thing to do. It may be a charisma check but you can convince him hes just depressed. He was one of the brotherhood's most dedicated soldiers and did a ton for the cause. So what if hes a robot? He still did all that stuff. Besides you need to complete the quest for 20% bonus damage against snyths/mutants/ghouls. ulmont posted:No it's not. Ballistic weave fits better with my hatred of the power armor UI. You can get ballistic weave pretty easily without progressing too far though?
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Jan 20, 2016 16:34
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There's some mission near the end where you have to break into a town to get to some synths and either shut them down or kill them or rescue them or whatever. I guess it's meant to be this big three way war, and a climactic battle, but at this point I was friends with all factions, so I just walked through unimpeded. Then I went back to the railroad, and some dude kept running up and telling me I should care about some drops our some bollocks, and the Android woman just kept running on the spot, and the leader woman was really demanding despite me having done more than all of them put together, so I thought gently caress it, put mines everywhere and shot a fat man. Then I felt bad, because all I'd done was cut off a bunch of quests, but they're so ineffectual it's of no benefit to anyone to kill them. So I reloaded a quicksave, went to the institute and got a mission 'murder all the railroad'. Really at that point I felt like I was done with the game.
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Jan 20, 2016 16:49
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hobbesmaster posted:It may be a charisma check but you can convince him hes just depressed. He was one of the brotherhood's most dedicated soldiers and did a ton for the cause. So what if hes a robot? He still did all that stuff. Besides you need to complete the quest for 20% bonus damage against snyths/mutants/ghouls. The Brotherhood literally wants to kill all synths, ghouls, etc. All of them. Danse might have done a lot of stuff for them, but even if he is let go "this time" he's on their execution list forever. He also embodied their fascist belief system of human supremacy and unquestioning allegiance to his core, to the point where it defines his entire personality (also boring). The game doesn't even show signs of this as a liberating catharsis for him, he still thinks anything non-BoS is living garbage. Also he's Preston-level boring oh my god
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Jan 20, 2016 17:06
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It's a shame because I found preston to be one of the more interesting characters, he just wants to make the world a better place! He trips all over his own words when you romance him and goes into detail about being suicidal. cod have been so much better if it didn't seemed like they put a gun to the VAs back and told him to never raise his tone otherwise the building would blow up. Same for Danse too, if he had a personality change it would have been a really great piece of character development but nope. He's still an rear end in a top hat to Nick, saint of the Commonwealth.
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Jan 20, 2016 17:09
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