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That was a really long post to point out that you don't know the difference between "casual" and "causal."
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Jan 20, 2016 17:10
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Rent-A-Cop posted:That was a really long post to point out that you don't know the difference between "casual" and "causal." I've edited the post. The rest of it stands.
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Jan 20, 2016 17:40
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Chomskyan posted:Anyways, having read the discussion of the study myself, about as much emphasis is placed on drug use/drinking/domestic violence as guns. The reason guns are emphasized despite their "low" correlation to homicide, is because it's often claimed that guns increase personal safety. If that was the case there should be a negative correlation, not a statistically significant positive one. That's what the authors of the study are pointing out. Not that owning a gun is a better predictor of homicide than alcoholism/etc, but that owning a gun increases, not decreases, the risk of a homicide occurring in your home. Pedestrians have roughly 100 times less chance of dying in transport accidents than car drivers. Bus riders have roughly 1000 times less chance of dying in transport accidents than car drivers. Clearly car owners don't care about personal safety.
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Jan 20, 2016 17:55
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NathanScottPhillips posted:Well according to http://www.rita.dot.gov/bts/sites/rita.dot.gov.bts/files/publications/national_transportation_statistics/html/table_02_01.html_mfd
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Jan 20, 2016 18:19
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Assuming some of you could realistically push your version of reasonable gun control in the United States, I ask again where airguns would fall. Ownership and discharge are unregulated in the majority of states. Airgun suppressors are unregulated. Would you leave that as-is? Institute power limits defining regulaed and non-regulated as in Canada and the U.K? Regulate them all as in New Jersey? Extra regulation or a ban for suppressors? Discharge regulation to ranges or outside a certain distance of inhabited structures? Training requirements? Caliber limits? Would felons be prohibited from ownership?
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Jan 20, 2016 18:19
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Dead Reckoning posted:That's sort of a stupid comparison though, because very few people drive because they think it's safer thank taking the bus.
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Jan 20, 2016 18:28
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That's kind of the hilarious part. I don't believe that there is a gun rights advocate in this forum who wouldn't be all in favor of tax-funded training courses being made available, free of charge, to reduce 'accidental' gun deaths by teaching people to handle guns more safely. Which would probably actually -work- to reduce gun deaths. Of course it doesn't involve spite and might help people be less afraid of gun ownership, so it will never even be an option.
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Jan 20, 2016 18:42
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Chomskyan posted:Anyways, having read the discussion of the study myself, about as much emphasis is placed on drug use/drinking/domestic violence as guns. The reason guns are emphasized despite their "low" correlation to homicide, is because it's often claimed that guns increase personal safety. If that was the case there should be a negative correlation, not a statistically significant positive one. That's what the authors of the study are pointing out. Not that owning a gun is a better predictor of homicide than alcoholism/etc, but that owning a gun increases, not decreases, the risk of a homicide occurring in your home. If guns are considered to increase personal safety, could it be that someone with a reason to fear for their personal safety would buy a gun? Could there also be a correlation between having reason to fear for your personal safety and being a victim of homicide? If gun ownership makes you more likely to be a victim of homicide, why are African Americans, a group with the lowest chance of gun ownership, also the most likely to be a victim of homicide? Edit: Actually Asians are the least likely to own a gun. Black is 19% and Asian is 14%. I had to look it up elsewhere because Pew Research only counted White, Hispanic, and Black. sonofsunaj fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Jan 20, 2016 |
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Jan 20, 2016 18:47
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sonofsunaj posted:If gun ownership makes you more likely to be a victim of homicide, why are African Americans, a group with the lowest chance of gun ownership, also the most likely to be a victim of homicide? Yes, I know this is not the case, and depending on who you listen to, something around 90-95% of homicides against African Americans are by other African Americans. Edit: Do we know that African Americans are the least likely to own a gun? Honestly, if I was black in America, there's no way in poo poo I'd be telling the nice man on the phone/at the door/wherever that I have a gun. stealie72 fucked around with this message at 19:00 on Jan 20, 2016 |
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Jan 20, 2016 18:56
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Chomskyan posted:It doesn't matter since the study used a control group and linear regression to remove these kinds of biases. quote:These are "flaws" in the sense that there may have been better ways to conduct the studies (although it's hard to imagine getting a representative sample without self-reporting), but you expect this kind of methodology when there are limited funds. There's no reason to believe this methodology has a significant bias either, unless the language wasn't neutral (it was) or there is a significant conflict of interest for the participants (there wasn't). quote:Anyways, having read the discussion of the study myself, about as much emphasis is placed on drug use/drinking/domestic violence as guns. The reason guns are emphasized despite their "low" correlation to homicide, is because it's often claimed that guns increase personal safety. If that was the case there should be a negative correlation, not a statistically significant positive one. That's what the authors of the study are pointing out. Not that owning a gun is a better predictor of homicide than alcoholism/etc, but that owning a gun increases, not decreases, the risk of a homicide occurring in your home. Speaking of results, less than half the homicides in the cases were conducted with a gun, (which is actually less than the national average,) and no attempt was made to find the origin of the weapon. If a woman's drug-dealing live-in boyfriend owns a gun to defend himself, but then strangles her to death because he's a jealous, alcoholic scumbag, it's difficult to say that there was any causal link between the two events, or that the gun failed to defend her, since it wasn't for her protection. Also, why are people more likely to be murdered if they own a pistol than if they own a shotgun or a rifle? Seems like it shouldn't matter. Either way, Kellermann makes no attempt to even posit a causal mechanism, because the data and methods don't support it, but he's perfectly happy to imply one in the title and discussion, as are politicians and people on the internet willing to overlook the huge weaknesses in both the study and its conclusions.
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Jan 20, 2016 19:27
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Snowman Crossing posted:Can be pretty ballsy to go with the cheap option when you're talking about .50 BMG. Good luck. I'm willing to put my fingers and/or face on the line for freedom. 
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Jan 21, 2016 00:31
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has obama swooped in with his apache helicopters and enacted plan theta to steal my guns away? i hope not becuase I like my guns an freedom and walmart
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Jan 21, 2016 18:17
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stealie72 posted:Edit: Do we know that African Americans are the least likely to own a gun? Honestly, if I was black in America, there's no way in poo poo I'd be telling the nice man on the phone/at the door/wherever that I have a gun. Gun control in the US has traditionally has been focused on keeping minorities away from guns and I would bet that any African American that had a gun (legally or not) would get singled out for harassment by law enforcement (and other organizations) because of racism. This combined with gun ownership mostly correlating with more rural and higher income groups while African Americans tend to be more urban and lower income has left African Americans without any longstanding tradition or culture of legal gun ownership. Now I'm not African American but this seems to have created a sort of anti-gun by default culture, as a black man with a gun will always be assumed to be doing something criminal unless its obvious that he's not, like if he is a police officer or solider. As far as Latinos/Hispanics go my own experience has been that 1st gen Immigrants default to a similar position but these attitudes don't seem to get passed down from generation to generation as effectively as it does in African Americans. If i had to guess if you took out 1st and maybe 2nd gen Latinos/Hispanics out of the equation their rates of gun ownership wouldn't be that far off from whites.
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Jan 21, 2016 20:14
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Pauline Kael posted:Oh hey look another shitposter stealing that other guys schtick. Cams was it? Gungrabbing shitposters all kind of blend together. Funny how gun permit requests are sky rocketing in Europe these days, why is that? Are you all pussies now? Truly we've reached the end times when you're calling someone a shitposter. 
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Jan 22, 2016 05:57
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El Scotch posted:Truly we've reached the end times when you're calling someone a shitposter. As a non American it's probably best for you to shut your sloppy whore mouth and leave this discussion to the adults
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Jan 23, 2016 02:37
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I think we should arm the masses and let the situation sort itself out.
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Jan 23, 2016 03:37
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So.... how we have it now? I mean, there's more guns than people in circulation as it is, and the rate of murders per gun per year is pretty hilariously low. I mean, 8500 firearm-related homicides a year (Averaged over the last three years) out of 350 million guns? That's only 0.000024 murders per gun! What I'm saying here is guns need to get on their game, they're not living up to their reputation as murder incarnate.
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Jan 23, 2016 03:56
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yeah but the guns are concentrated in the top 30-50%. We need a gun in every hand.
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Jan 23, 2016 04:09
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Man Whore posted:yeah but the guns are concentrated in the top 30-50%. We need a gun in every hand. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7wjLIbMU2k
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Jan 23, 2016 12:15
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did firearms in america end yet
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Jan 24, 2016 03:58
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Nope. Gun nuts refuse to give them up, no matter how much blood is soaked into their collective hands.
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Jan 24, 2016 04:12
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Who What Now posted:Booze nuts refuse to give them up, no matter how much blood is soaked into their collective hands. Those bastards.
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Jan 24, 2016 07:43
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Who What Now posted:Nope. Gun nuts refuse to give them up, no matter how much blood is soaked into their collective hands. Your contention is that it's the NRA types that are committing all the murders? Or are you saying something else? I wonder if you have anything besides your feels to back that up. Somehow I doubt it.
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Jan 24, 2016 16:06
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Pauline Kael posted:Your contention is that it's the NRA types that are committing all the murders? Or are you saying something else? I wonder if you have anything besides your feels to back that up. Somehow I doubt it. drat, look at this really well-constructed joke. First, you've got the straight line, or set-up: "Your contention is that it's the NRA types that are committing all the murders? Or are you saying something else?" Critical to this is the use of funny words like "contention", which makes the sentence sound like it was written by a guy who spends his midlife crisis on the internet yelling about young people. Another key part of the straight line is splitting it into two lines, cleverly obscuring the humor potential by holding out the prospect that the comedian will go on to yell about how it's the liberals who are the real racists, always a crowd-pleaser from the sheer absurdity. Now, there are two parts to every joke. You've got the straight line, which sets up the premise, and then the punch line, which gets you the laffs. Here's the punch line: "I wonder if you have anything besides your feels to back that up. Somehow I doubt it." See, how it works is you set up expectations with the straight line, and then you say the punch line, which consists of a word that someone under 25 has used on the internet, like "triggered", "feels", "socioeconomic", etc. And it brings down the house, especially when you add yet another line which does nothing for rhetorical emphasis and lards out the joke, making it roughly 150% funnier.
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Jan 24, 2016 16:14
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Effectronica posted:drat, look at this really well-constructed joke. So, like I said, "gun nuts" having "blood on their hands" is an attempt to conflate lawful gun owners with those committing the vast majority of gun murders. You're mad because you know I'm right, and the reason that we will never have meaningful gun control legislation in this country is because of this exact type of breathless panicky pearl clutching hyperbole. I know it's a highly effective tactic in your tumblr safe spaces and in your late night dorm room bullshit sessions, but adults, people who vote, aren't swayed by it. Better luck on whatever your other pet issues are. You're doing a bang up job defending Somali pirates in the Taiwan thread maybe spend more time on that.
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Jan 24, 2016 16:23
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Pauline Kael posted:So, like I said, "gun nuts" having "blood on their hands" is an attempt to conflate lawful gun owners with those committing the vast majority of gun murders. There is no such thing as a "lawful gun owner". Merely a gun owner who hasn't taken the opportunity to kill yet.
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Jan 24, 2016 16:31
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It's telling that these two jackasses are the only anti-gunners still posting in this thread. The other anti-gun posters with real arguments have given up so it's just the riff raff left.
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Jan 24, 2016 16:50
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There's no argument to have. Pro-gun people will never give up a chance to shoot blah- people. So the only solution is to at least have fun mocking them.
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Jan 24, 2016 16:52
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NathanScottPhillips posted:It's telling that these two jackasses are the only anti-gunners still posting in this thread. The other anti-gun posters with real arguments have given up so it's just the riff raff left. If the politics of America have shown me anything, it's just how easy it is to outlast the attention of anti-gunners.
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Jan 24, 2016 16:52
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I need guns to shoot capitalism. Capitalism keeps tryin ' to take my puckins.
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Jan 24, 2016 16:53
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NathanScottPhillips posted:It's telling that these two jackasses are the only anti-gunners still posting in this thread. The other anti-gun posters with real arguments have given up so it's just the riff raff left. There's no argument when it becomes a love feast/chat thread for TFR mutants. It's just sad and pitiful to watch, much like GBS gaybasher Pauline Kael's attempts to make jokes.
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Jan 24, 2016 16:54
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SedanChair posted:If the politics of America have shown me anything, it's just how easy it is to outlast the attention of anti-gunners. These threads are actually much funnier when you morons are left to your own devices. Edit: why not post some pictures with literal devices? They make you look so cool.
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Jan 24, 2016 18:05
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Ogmius815 posted:These threads are actually much funnier when you morons are left to your own devices. So, what you are left with is making fun of gun owners because neither facts nor logic are on your side
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Jan 24, 2016 18:38
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Effectronica posted:There's no argument when it becomes a love feast/chat thread for TFR mutants. It's just sad and pitiful to watch, much like GBS gaybasher Pauline Kael's attempts to make jokes. You mean when your stupid gun grabber arguments are refuted, and you're all out of ideas, then decide that you should slur your opponents? That's pretty much your whole schtick, we get it, you're zany, whacky, random, and the Alpha Edgelord of D&D
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Jan 24, 2016 18:41
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Pauline Kael posted:So, what you are left with is making fun of gun owners because neither facts nor logic are on your side What good are facts and logic to you? The fact is is that you, personally, care more about owning guns than you do the deaths of innocent people. All of your ilk does.
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Jan 24, 2016 18:45
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Political reality washes over this thread like a fine mist.
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Jan 24, 2016 18:54
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Ogmius815 posted:These threads are actually much funnier when you morons are left to your own devices. Petulant frustration? You might as well be Obama. Maybe you should use an eyedropper to enhance the effect and project sincerity. Who What Now posted:What good are facts and logic to you? The fact is is that you, personally, care more about owning guns than you do the deaths of innocent people. All of your ilk does. What does logic have to do with that?
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Jan 24, 2016 19:03
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Who What Now posted:What good are facts and logic to you? The fact is is that you, personally, care more about owning guns than you do the deaths of innocent people. All of your ilk does. How does my gun ownership relate to the death of innocent people? Can you show me a single instance of a NRA member being convicted of murder?
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Jan 24, 2016 19:11
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Pauline Kael posted:How does my gun ownership relate to the death of innocent people? Can you show me a single instance of a NRA member being convicted of murder? Hitler wore shoes, you wear shoes, ergo you are Hitler.
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Jan 24, 2016 19:14
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By that logic I'm John Wayne and I'm ok with that.
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Jan 24, 2016 19:19
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