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No way Fox allows Avatar 2 to come out a week later. It probably won't even matter though since the drat thing will probably still be in pre-production by then.
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Jan 20, 2016 23:04
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Cnut the Great posted:Someone should make a video where they go around and ask a bunch of their friends to try describing Maz's character. That's the only way this argument can be settled in a truly objective manner. we could just do it here, in this discussion forum. Same caveats as from the videos: no describing her profession or what she does in the movie. I'l honestly be surprised if people have difficulty with this. She's humble, willing to help anyone who comes her way. She has a sense of humor, which helps keep her grounded and approachable by people from all walks of life. She prides herself on her ability to judge others, but is polite enough to only do so when it can help others. She is devoted to her faith, but has a very progressive/reformist approach of it, applying parables and morals from the Force to practical actions which support and aid her community. She has a very "weary but content" style to her, which is why others see her as grandmotherly, especially alongside her long-lived worldly experience. In one sentence: she's a street-smart priest who considers everyone a part of her parish, faithful but not traditional.
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Jan 20, 2016 23:05
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Fucker posted:f Star Wars was all I had access to as a child in terms of sci-fi I probably would become one of those crazy fanboys, but thankfully I had access to anime from very early on in my youth years that my mental balance is very stable. Source your quotes
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Jan 20, 2016 23:06
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Neurolimal posted:we could just do it here, in this discussion forum. Same caveats as from the videos: no describing her profession or what she does in the movie. I'l honestly be surprised if people have difficulty with this. Why don't you just say "hip street preacher"
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Jan 20, 2016 23:08
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Hey guys shHHHHHSHSHSHH https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS9LPPOIEZM
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Jan 20, 2016 23:09
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Harime Nui posted:Why don't you just say "hip street preacher" I did, at the end. I elaborated because some might interpret that as "describing her profession" Also if we're going to demand trilogy depth and nuance out of one film I'd appreciate it if people could describe Padme, going off only The Phantom Menace.
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Jan 20, 2016 23:11
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Neurolimal posted:
My question to you is, what do these characteristics have to do with Star Wars? Like, why would a character with these attributes (I don't agree she is all those things, but my agreement isn't relevant) be the center of the movie? What do those qualities have to do with diametrically opposed views of the Force, a crumbling Republic, a reluctant student, a missing Luke, fathers and sons . . . anything that Star Wars is usually about? And why is that character CENTRAL?
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Jan 20, 2016 23:11
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Neurolimal posted:I did, at the end. I elaborated because some might interpret that as "describing her profession" Natalie Portman
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Jan 20, 2016 23:12
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Neurolimal posted:
Someone who is fearless (leads the charge to retake her palace), curious and inquisitive (demands to be brought as part of the exploration party on Tatooine), and yet still guarded and slightly manipulative (she keeps up the facade with her double until basically the very last moment).
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Jan 20, 2016 23:17
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Neurolimal posted:I did, at the end. I elaborated because some might interpret that as "describing her profession" Tough, daring, dutiful, forced to grow up too fast, her Queenly makeup also serves to mask much of her passion and emotion. There's probably more, but those are all true things about her character in that first movie that one comes to mind quickly. Not taking a side on the Maz stuff, but the idea that Padme has no characterization seems willfully obtuse.
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Jan 20, 2016 23:20
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Neurolimal posted:I did, at the end. I elaborated because some might interpret that as "describing her profession" she's devoted and strong willed, she's adventurous to a fault, indeed demanding via proxy that she go into dangerous territory she's kind and caring and sisterly towards multiple newcomers, and doesn't subscribe to the droid prejudice of those around her she has a "naive but headstrong" style to her, which is why some see her as a child, but others see her as a capable ruler in search of long-lived wordly experience in one sentence: she's a well meaning teenager who considers her people above herself (i even used some of your words there!)
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Jan 20, 2016 23:21
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homullus posted:My question to you is, what do these characteristics have to do with Star Wars? Like, why would a character with these attributes (I don't agree she is all those things, but my agreement isn't relevant) be the center of the movie? What do those qualities have to do with diametrically opposed views of the Force, a crumbling Republic, a reluctant student, a missing Luke, fathers and sons . . . anything that Star Wars is usually about? And why is that character CENTRAL? She represents the most ideal outcome of a force-faithful person; with Luke temporarily out of the picture, she holds the torch of progress from the elitist Emperor and the peaceful but distant Yoda. It's important that a movie where protagonists both literally and figuratively search for Luke eventually come across his moral compass. She is the compassionate evolution of the Force that resulted from Luke's radical reformation and development, and is contrasted heavily by Ren and (at the time) Rey. Her, her extremely lively but safe cantina, and paradise-like planet after the oppressive atmosphere of Jakku assure the viewer that things have improved from the effects of ROTJ even if strife and misery still exist in the galaxy. How many of the Padme descriptions could easily be reduced down to "stoic and determined"?
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Jan 20, 2016 23:22
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Neurolimal posted:I did, at the end. I elaborated because some might interpret that as "describing her profession" Padme was very beautiful and kind, but sad. Like that was her character, the movie wasn't trying to trick you.
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Jan 20, 2016 23:23
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I also disagree that she's a central character.
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Jan 20, 2016 23:24
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Neurolimal posted:Also if we're going to demand trilogy depth and nuance out of one film I'd appreciate it if people could describe Padme, going off only The Phantom Menace. Padmé is a naïve and idealistic girl who's initially out of her depth when asked to lead during a crisis. However, she recognizes good advice when she sees it and is daring enough to take decisive action when pressed. She chafes at an old man's tendency to fly by the seat of his pants, but she accepts that he is worldlier than her and may have insight that she does not; in fact, she seems to pick up a thing or two from him, because by the end of the movie she commits to a crazy gambit and trusts that it will work out. Padmé is kind-hearted and displays curiosity about other cultures, but she's prudent enough to hide her true identity. Her compassionate nature is an asset for her because it helps her to overcome her prejudices and find allies in unlikely places. She hates watching other people suffer and detests obstructionists who stand in the way of justice.
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Jan 20, 2016 23:24
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Harime Nui posted:Padme was very beautiful and kind, but sad. Mechafunkzilla posted:Natalie Portman
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Jan 20, 2016 23:26
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rear end Catchcum posted:I also disagree that she's a central character. I assume you mean Maz, in which case it depends how much she's in the subsequent films. If she's not really in the other two though, it'd be one of the most focused on characters that only show up once (I guess there's also Jar Jar, but he was supposed to have a much larger role in AOTC).
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Jan 20, 2016 23:26
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Can you imagine how much better TFA would have been if Maz's character was replaced by a descendant of Nute Gunray
Mechafunkzilla fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Jan 20, 2016 |
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Jan 20, 2016 23:27
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Neurolimal posted:How many of the Padme descriptions could easily be reduced down to "stoic and determined"? careful op you're venturing into "my beliefs are so dogmatic that 5+ posters won't make me even slightly concede my point" territory character descriptions are political in that they're very easy for one side to make expansive and interesting and very easy for the other to make reductive and bad Mechafunkzilla posted:Can you even imagine how much better TFA would have been if Maz's character was replaced by a descendant of Nute Gunray this but unironically the descendant of a character who began in over his head and continued to just barely keep his head above water before eventually being murdered after foolishly believing peace was possible...handing off the very weapon that did the murdering in the hopes of using that weapon to "bring peace"
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Jan 20, 2016 23:29
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Waffles Inc. posted:she's devoted and strong willed, she's adventurous to a fault, indeed demanding via proxy that she go into dangerous territory What makes her adventurous? That she fled from her planet after it was invaded? Do devoted people abandon their subjects at the first sign of conflict? quote:she's kind and caring and sisterly towards multiple newcomers, and doesn't subscribe to the droid prejudice of those around her Who insisted that R2 be thanked? quote:in one sentence: she's a well meaning teenager who considers her people above herself If she is so selfless, why does she have a fake act in her place? Is it selfless to have what is essentially a human shield?
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Jan 20, 2016 23:30
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You basically said "Maz is like wise and poo poo but she's cool about it" like five different ways bud
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Jan 20, 2016 23:31
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computer parts posted:I assume you mean Maz, in which case it depends how much she's in the subsequent films. I did mean Maz. Do you mean because Jar was supposed to be a sith or something else?
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Jan 20, 2016 23:32
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Waffles Inc. posted:this but unironically There's nothing ironic about my love for Nute Gunray.
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Jan 20, 2016 23:32
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Neurolimal posted:What makes her adventurous? That she fled from her planet after it was invaded? Do devoted people abandon their subjects at the first sign of conflict? Her literal mission was to seek help for her people through the Senate. That's why she left at all.
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Jan 20, 2016 23:33
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Neurolimal posted:What makes her adventurous? That she fled from her planet after it was invaded? Do devoted people abandon their subjects at the first sign of conflict? How about her desire to explore tattooine so much that she forced Qui-Gon to take her along despite him saying it was dangerous also she personally lead the assault on the theed castle Neurolimal posted:Who insisted that R2 be thanked? she did Neurolimal posted:If she is so selfless, why does she have a fake act in her place? Is it selfless to have what is essentially a human shield? it's likely that the fakes acted as fakes on their own accord and likely as part of a security detail she had no say in the president, for instance, can't just decide to not have the secret service follow him around next?
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Jan 20, 2016 23:33
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rear end Catchcum posted:I did mean Maz. Do you mean because Jar was supposed to be a sith or something else? Nah, he was supposed to be more integrated with the story than just giving Palpatine executive powers but they shied away from it for some reason. I don't remember if the plan was ever laid out.
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Jan 20, 2016 23:35
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Waffles Inc. posted:How about her desire to explore tattooine so much that she forced Qui-Gon to take her along despite him saying it was dangerous So she risked the sovereignty of her people to watch her security detail murder droids (and maybe kill some herself)? This is selfless? quote:she did This was a genuine question, thanks for answering. quote:it's likely that the fakes acted as fakes on their own accord and likely as part of a security detail she had no say in If the president is hundreds of miles away from America, with America under siege, and bodyguards better than her assigned security detail, she absolutely can reveal herself and protect some Naboobian peasant girl from death.
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Jan 20, 2016 23:39
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Padme flouts teenage girl conventions by inexplicably being attracted to the 9-year old dweeb who makes robots, when Ewan MacGregor is three steps away preparing for sword combat. At that age, girls are looking forward and not back.
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Jan 20, 2016 23:41
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Electromax posted:Padme flouts teenage girl conventions by inexplicably being attracted to the 9-year old dweeb who makes robots, when Ewan MacGregor is three steps away preparing for sword combat. At that age, girls are looking forward and not back. Padme: Stoic Cradle Robber
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Jan 20, 2016 23:41
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Neurolimal posted:So she risked the sovereignty of her people to watch her security detail murder droids (and maybe kill some herself)? This is selfless? Are you Nute Gunray
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Jan 20, 2016 23:43
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computer parts posted:Nah, he was supposed to be more integrated with the story than just giving Palpatine executive powers but they shied away from it for some reason. I don't remember if the plan was ever laid out. Interesting. Thank you.
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Jan 20, 2016 23:50
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rear end Catchcum posted:Interesting. Thank you. It's pretty interesting; two of the changes to AOTC that were made based on TPM reception resulted in a weaker overall film. Jar Jar and his overall role as the viewer insert ended up being diminished, and Anakin got casted as an adult with preteen dialogue and actions. Resulting in "everyones a stupid idiot who can't finger Palpatine" and "coddled mass murderer Adult Anakin".
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Jan 20, 2016 23:57
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Where is it stated these changes were done as a result of fan reaction? I'm not trying to be argumentative; it just seems weird that George comes off as this no vision comprising guy, especially in regards to the prequels, but then would change major things in his movies, which, according to him, had been planned for years and years, due to fan reaction.
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Jan 21, 2016 00:06
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I do struggle to imagine how Jar Jar could've featured in either of the main plot threads of AOTC.
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Jan 21, 2016 00:11
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I think jar jar worked well in AotC. He was a character from the last movie who is still important but not part of the story. Maybe like grand Moff tarkin in ANH. Yeah like he's important, but it's almost like he's more of the setting than a character. They use him to show certain perspectives. He is sad when obi wan and anakin bitch at each other in the beginning, and he is hopeful when he makes the announcement about palpatine. I dooooont remember him in ROTS. Which is significant because now the perspectives that he represented are no longer there, or important to the characters. Not that anyone seemed t care about jar jar in AOTC either. Dude moff is the funniest title, where the hell did they come up with it?
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Jan 21, 2016 00:21
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Cnut knows more than I do about the behind the scenes stuff, but from what I know, when Lucas says he's had plans for years, he doesn't mean he's had the entire plot beat-by-beat in his head for years, and all he had to do when it came time to write the script was type out what he had been thinking and add some dialogue. He means he's had the broad strokes, as well as some of the finer details, in mind for years. So when you go back to those early drafts of the original Star Wars, you see a lot of stuff that appears in later movies. Luke's father being a cyborg who sacrifices himself, a Sith that gets cut in half, the idea that the Skywalkers have some kind of special significance in the Force(though the specifics vary depending on the draft), a Sith that turns to the good side and saves the day, hairy, primitive creatures contributing to the fall of the Death Star, Vader throwing pieces of machinery and debris at one of the good guys during a lightsaber duel, Luke having a sibling who has been captured and held in the Death Star, a city in the clouds, Luke and Leia being related, the fall of the Republic being facilitated by corruption, prejudice, and the machinations of various trade guilds, a shriveled, ancient Jedi Master who is reawakened by Luke's arrival. That's probably not even the full list, but I listed a bunch of examples to demonstrate what I mean. All of those things appear in various drafts of the very first Star Wars movie, but pretty much none of them are exactly as they were later finalized in the finished movies. So while he had thought of many of the themes, characters, set pieces, visuals, concepts, etc. a long time ago, it doesn't mean they were fully formed and he had nothing that he came up with while actually writing the movies.
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Jan 21, 2016 00:25
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SHISHKABOB posted:Dude moff is the funniest title, where the hell did they come up with it? The word Moff originates from the word Muff which is slang for a very hairy bushy vagina
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Jan 21, 2016 00:26
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rear end Catchcum posted:Where is it stated these changes were done as a result of fan reaction? I'm not trying to be argumentative; it just seems weird that George comes off as this no vision comprising guy, especially in regards to the prequels, but then would change major things in his movies, which, according to him, had been planned for years and years, due to fan reaction. As far as I know, there's no actual evidence that he made any major changes to Jar Jar's role in AOTC and ROTS. He probably would have had a diminished role no matter what. Also, Jar Jar wasn't a part of the stuff that had been planned for years and years, and Lucas has never claimed he was. He's said all along that he had a basic story in mind for a long time, which was essentially: "Young boy becomes separated from his mother, develops attachment issues, projects mother issues onto wife, and turns to the dark side as a result." He's been saying stuff like this about the prequel trilogy since 1983: George Lucas posted:"Fairy tales are about how people learn about good and evil, about how to conduct themselves in society. Darth Vader is the bad father; Ben Kenobi is the good father. The good and bad mothers are still to come." He never claimed that he had, like, three full scripts written and ready to be filmed. But he'd obviously decided a long time before he started writing the screenplay for Episode I that Darth Vader was going to turn to the dark side because of his mother issues, and he stuck to that plan no matter what anyone else said. That was the core of the story that never changed.
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Jan 21, 2016 00:30
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SHISHKABOB posted:Dude moff is the funniest title, where the hell did they come up with it? I'd guess something along the lines of "major officer".
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Jan 21, 2016 00:40
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rear end Catchcum posted:I also disagree that she's a central character. She's central as in "in the middle part," one of the movie's hinges. Does "pivotal" sound better for you?
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Jan 21, 2016 00:42
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