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A Saucy Bratwurst posted:Hmmm yes take quotes without any context You're such a bad poster that theflyingorc is trying to talk you down, and s/he seems like the reasonable one. Just think about that for a few minutes. Your contributions are utterly worthless and without merit, to the point that that literal archivists who work with these sorts of things have come into the thread and told you that you are wrong, and all you can do is mash your face against the keyboard talking about 'one time I had a rat chew up a novel that was sitting next to a bird cage and another time some old records got chewed up by rats." The boxes aren't chewed, the boxes have been there for a while, the very fact that the boxes and bags are intact despite potentially having some rat poop near/on them shows that the rats are uninterested. Please, just take like 12 seconds and think through what you're writing before deciding to throw it out for everyone to see. The last time you came into the thread you were whining that someone posted a screencapture of a public facebook page without blanking names of people who decided to post their opinions to the public. Do you even consider things like 'context' or 'facts' when deciding to post, or are you just using a collection of half remembered anecdotes and gut feelings in order to try and convince people that you're right for reasons? edit: Uh, accidental page snipe. Oops.
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Jan 21, 2016 18:05
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A Saucy Bratwurst posted:Hmmm yes take quotes without any context My point is that I can't believe someone would believe a single thing they see in one of these propaganda videos unless they were already sympathetic to the cause.
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Jan 21, 2016 18:05
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A Saucy Bratwurst posted:I mean my photo albums and styofoam boxes probably didnt smell like food but that didnt stop them building a nest out of them. It also didnt stop them chewing up one of my course novels that I accidentally left near my bird cages when I was in highschool. Mice and rats chew things and I'm sure the tribe would appreciate finding their stuff had been a rodent nest since the 80s. Speaking as someone who actually knows a few things about animal behavior, their basic drive is going to consist of a few things: A) Food B) Shelter C) Mates Can you explain to me why a rodent is going to waste energy wantonly destroying artifacts when they are most likely going to confer none of those things? From a food perspective, it is unlikely that they are storing or have stored food anywhere near that storage area. From a shelter perspective, it is unlikely they are going to build a nest in an artifact box because they are neither easily accessed (being on shelves from what i could see) and there is hardly a need for serious shelter when you're already in a storage area with a stable climate. For obvious reasons, theyre unlikely to find mates in an artifact box. Now to speak from personal experience, I have spent months living in a mouse-infested cabin on a field site, and have never once had the issue of them chewing through all of my belongings. Chewing through food containers? Yes. Everything else, no. This is probably because they have well-attuned noses and don't feel the need to waste energy destroying things for no reason. So, I would like your theory on why the rodents that live down there would destroy the artifacts. Is it just in their nature? Do they like destroying things for fun? Keeping in mind that you would think the Paiute tribe would be up in arms if there was real danger here.
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Jan 21, 2016 18:06
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they do have to chew stuff to keep their teeth from overgrowing and killing them, but that doesn't inherently mean they're loving up stuff on shelves
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Jan 21, 2016 18:12
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A storage room woild be relatively dry and warm and also quiet, and is near a building where food is stored. Just like the boxes in my shed were. The dudes said they want to speak to the tribe and deal with them properly, remember when I started this with the big bold capitalised "if" they are telling the truth? E: All that has to happen is for 1 of the leaders to realise that this artifact thing could actually get them a decent amount of positive press if they handle it right. underage at the vape shop fucked around with this message at 18:16 on Jan 21, 2016 |
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Jan 21, 2016 18:13
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A Saucy Bratwurst posted:A storage room woild be relatively dry and warm and also quiet, and is near a building where food is stored. Just like the boxes in my shed were. The dudes said they want to speak to the tribe and deal with them properly, remember when I started this with the big bold capitalised "if" they are telling the truth? This thread is like a retarded episode of Wild Kingdom.
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Jan 21, 2016 18:13
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No, your boxes were covered in bird poo poo. These boxes are now covered in sov-cit poo poo which is apparently super appealing to you as you're just gobbling it up.
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Jan 21, 2016 18:15
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A Saucy Bratwurst posted:I do like that you guys are arguing that the militia saying they want to bring the tribe in and discuss how to properly handle and protect the artifacts isnt a good thing. No one is saying that, you massive dumbass. People are saying that them pulling the artifacts out of storage is bad. Besides that, though, the government was already working with the tribe to manage these things, until these assholes hosed it up. Their actions here are a net negative; nothing they've done that could be argued as good wasn't already happening, and they're making things far worse in multiple ways.
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Jan 21, 2016 18:15
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A Saucy Bratwurst posted:I do like that you guys are arguing that the militia saying they want to bring the tribe in and discuss how to properly handle and protect the artifacts isnt a good thing. Bad people can accidentally do good you know. There's a very, very good chance that the tribe has already discussed this with local government representatives? Captain Monkey posted:You're such a bad poster that theflyingorc is trying to talk you down, and s/he seems like the reasonable one. Just think about that for a few minutes. edit: Roland Jones posted:No one is saying that, you massive dumbass. People are saying that them pulling the artifacts out of storage is bad. Besides that, though, the government was already working with the tribe to manage these things, until these assholes hosed it up. Their actions here are a net negative; nothing they've done that could be argued as good wasn't already happening, and they're making things far worse in multiple ways. theflyingorc fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Jan 21, 2016 |
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Jan 21, 2016 18:15
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And this seriously is propaganda. This is the video in question, posted soon after Ammon was quoted as saying that the Paiutes had "lost their claim to the land." The timing isn't a coincidence. Lavoy tries to make a big deal out of the fact that the artifacts have been sitting in the refuge basement for years, as though the BLM has been hiding the artifacts from the tribe - and then invites them to send a "liaison" to "reclaim" the artifacts, and also discuss any "claims that they may have upon the lands." As far as evidence of damage, all they do is point to one box and claim that there's a rat nest in it.
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Jan 21, 2016 18:16
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Can we go back to the stupid poo poo the protesters are doing and Pete is saying instead of arguing about storage techniques for ancient artifacts that are probably being exaggerated and not important in the grand scheme of what the poo poo is happening here and the implications it carries for future law enforcement?
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Jan 21, 2016 18:17
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Roland Jones posted:No one is saying that, you massive dumbass. People are saying that them pulling the artifacts out of storage is bad. Besides that, though, the government was already working with the tribe to manage these things, until these assholes hosed it up. Their actions here are a net negative; nothing they've done that could be argued as good wasn't already happening, and they're making things far worse in multiple ways. All we've seen is them pick a bag up from the top of a disorganised box and read the label, and then say they want to do this right. All it takes is someone in charge to realise this is a perfect press opportunity and something good will happen here.
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Jan 21, 2016 18:19
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No Butt Stuff posted:Can we go back to the stupid poo poo the protesters are doing and Pete is saying instead of arguing about storage techniques for ancient artifacts that are probably being exaggerated and not important in the grand scheme of what the poo poo is happening here and the implications it carries for future law enforcement? Very little is happening. Pete's no longer gonna have a daily stream, so that's hurting info streams. the only thing updating regularly is OregonLive.com, and that's like 2 articles a day If you want some Petechat, he says that "it's not an insurrection if it's for a just cause" because, as you know, no previous insurrection thought their cause was just edit: if anyone knows any other good sources, let the thread know. I don't have much other than OregonLive and JJ McNab's twitter feed
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Jan 21, 2016 18:20
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$5 says the ancient artifacts they found are just owl poo poo samples so they can track food chain sustainability.
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Jan 21, 2016 18:20
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A Saucy Bratwurst posted:All we've seen is them pick a bag up from the top of a disorganised box and read the label, and then say they want to do this right. All it takes is someone in charge to realise this is a perfect press opportunity and something good will happen here. There is absolutely no way that the Paiutes are going to cooperate with them. What are you expecting? The same people who've been calling for them to leave since day one are going to have a change of heart and decide that the people plowing roads through their ancestral land are the Good Guys?
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Jan 21, 2016 18:21
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A Saucy Bratwurst posted:All we've seen is them pick a bag up from the top of a disorganised box and read the label, and then say they want to do this right. All it takes is someone in charge to realise this is a perfect press opportunity and something good will happen here. They say that everything they're doing is an attempt "to do this right".
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Jan 21, 2016 18:22
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As a Millennial I posted:And this seriously is propaganda. This is the video in question, posted soon after Ammon was quoted as saying that the Paiutes had "lost their claim to the land." The timing isn't a coincidence. Lavoy tries to make a big deal out of the fact that the artifacts have been sitting in the refuge basement for years, as though the BLM has been hiding the artifacts from the tribe - and then invites them to send a "liaison" to "reclaim" the artifacts, and also discuss any "claims that they may have upon the lands." Am I a bad person for wanting their liasons to show up with their constitutionally protected guns and for the discussion to entirely consist of  ?
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Jan 21, 2016 18:23
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As a Millennial I posted:There is absolutely no way that the Paiutes are going to cooperate with them. What are you expecting? The same people who've been calling for them to leave since day one are going to have a change of heart and decide that the people plowing roads through their ancestral land are the Good Guys? "Thank you for getting our things out of rat poop. Now continue not being completely poo poo and leave" Can i just empty quote how this all started? You dudes are literally v mad that I said the artifacts potentially getting stored better is a good thing IF they are honest. Implying i dont think they will be but they might.
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Jan 21, 2016 18:25
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On my phone so I'm not going to into detail about Archaeologist/Native relations and NAGPRA (Discussion/Debate on this would be its own thread itself) but the local Tribe would have had a say in most if not all of the finds and repatriation of anything will be completely hosed if the militia moves poo poo in and out of boxes and mixes poo poo up. If that happens and the Tribe finds out I expect a huge lawsuit. They (reasonable so) take that poo poo seriously.
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Jan 21, 2016 18:26
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the gentlemen who do not recognize the federal government having any authority and are running around blowing on shofars are probably going to take an even keel in regards to artifact preservation, i don't know why this is hard to understand edit: Pete says that 50% of the media out to watch them are CIA or FBI
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Jan 21, 2016 18:29
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A Saucy Bratwurst posted:"Thank you for getting our things out of rat poop. Now continue not being completely poo poo and leave" "Don't touch our poo poo. We know exactly where our poo poo is. If we had a problem with how it was stored we'd have done something about it already."
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Jan 21, 2016 18:32
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A Saucy Bratwurst posted:All we've seen is them pick a bag up from the top of a disorganised box and read the label, and then say they want to do this right. All it takes is someone in charge to realise this is a perfect press opportunity and something good will happen here. You're concern trolling the concern trolling. They have no right to be there. They claim to be cultural guardians for the very people they have pissed off by going through literal poo poo that isn't theirs, claiming land that isn't theirs, destroying property that isn't theirs, threaten people with violence, made wild insane statements and you think this is a Good PR Opportunity. Piss off.
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Jan 21, 2016 18:32
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TheQat posted:they do have to chew stuff to keep their teeth from overgrowing and killing them, but that doesn't inherently mean they're loving up stuff on shelves True, though this is usually accomplished through eating plant material, not attempting to chew on rocks. A Saucy Bratwurst posted:A storage room woild be relatively dry and warm and also quiet, and is near a building where food is stored. Just like the boxes in my shed were. The dudes said they want to speak to the tribe and deal with them properly, remember when I started this with the big bold capitalised "if" they are telling the truth? I don't think you understand what you're talking about, and I don't see why you need to spin everything into a defense of this militia. You've been doing it since the thread began, and you taking them at their word is ridiculous.
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Jan 21, 2016 18:33
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oohhboy posted:You're concern trolling the concern trolling. They have no right to be there. They claim to be cultural guardians for the very people they have pissed off by going through literal poo poo that isn't theirs, claiming land that isn't theirs, destroying property that isn't theirs, threaten people with violence, made wild insane statements and you think this is a Good PR Opportunity. Piss off. hey, I broke into your house, went through your files, and i just want you to know that you accidentally put your 2013 tax returns into the wrong folder. i'm a hero
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Jan 21, 2016 18:34
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Perfectly Safe posted:The vast majority of the world's museum pieces are in storage most of the time. If you've got 50 bronze age arrowheads (for example) then you display the three best ones. You might lend the others out to a specific exhibition on occasion. You might lend them to someone doing research. The rest of the time, they'll be in storage. The alternative is throwing them out. The key thing is that they're preserved, not that they're used to entertain people. I also imagine that there's a good reason why these things specifically are kept there and not elsewhere.
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Jan 21, 2016 18:38
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Perfectly Safe posted:I hear that, behind closed doors, they demanded that the governor keep her big mouth shut. Defied? What authority do they have over her?
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Jan 21, 2016 18:47
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As a Millennial I posted:Do you also feel that, while their methods are a little overzealous, it's good that they brought attention to federal overreach and the injustice brought against the Hammonds? There wasn't federal overreact and injustice done to the Hammonds. A judge gave an illegally short sentence to the Hammonds and the feds had to step in and actually enforce the law that the judge ignored. The only injustice done to the Hammonds is that the Feds don't put them on a pedestal because they're ranchers. Enforcing a minimum sentence is not an injustice (let's not get in to a mandatory minimum debate derail). There is no credible evidence of the Hammonds being treated unjustly and their biggest support is from a family (and their supporters) who outright refuse to pay grazing fees they owe and got in an armed standoff with the government.
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Jan 21, 2016 18:52
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Evil Fluffy posted:There wasn't federal overreact and injustice done to the Hammonds. A judge gave an illegally short sentence to the Hammonds and the feds had to step in and actually enforce the law that the judge ignored. The only injustice done to the Hammonds is that the Feds don't put them on a pedestal because they're ranchers. Enforcing a minimum sentence is not an injustice (let's not get in to a mandatory minimum debate derail). There is no credible evidence of the Hammonds being treated unjustly and their biggest support is from a family (and their supporters) who outright refuse to pay grazing fees they owe and got in an armed standoff with the government. You should probably catch up on the thread
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Jan 21, 2016 18:53
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So, it's been two and a half weeks. Off the top of my head, we've had:quote:Armed occupation of a federal site But none of these things taken individually has really been enough to spur intervention by law enforcement, so we keep getting this steady stream of bullshit instead. Is this really the most effective method we can think of to deal with these situations? Because if so, then I have to say this tactic of occupation that the Bundys have come up with is a loving brilliant protest innovation. Nobody stopped them in Nevada, nobody is stopping them here, and nobody arrested them in the interim. The FBI is terrified of antagonizing right wing militias and stirring political reprisal. The Bundys have free media access for their messages because their whole shindig is a complete circus, and so it's a magnet for attention. Our only blessing here is that Bundy and Co. are Alex Jones-ian, sovcit crazies instead of some other less openly ridiculous right-wing group, whose message might likely be taken much more seriously by a certain deranged demographic in this fine country. We can laugh and laugh at Bundy and his loony gang doing and saying stupid poo poo all day, but it appears that, despite their warped ideology, they're on to a winning strategy here.
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Jan 21, 2016 18:53
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Lotka Volterra posted:True, though this is usually accomplished through eating plant material, not attempting to chew on rocks. So I can empty quote where I said if in big bold capitals if followed by they are honest now right? Sorry for saying "dont be a psycopath redneck" and then "people who aren't calling for a siege and slaughter arent racist" I guess. I never supported them, I approached the issue like an adult.
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Jan 21, 2016 18:59
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A Saucy Bratwurst posted:"Thank you for getting our things out of rat poop. Now continue not being completely poo poo and leave" Jesus Christ dude, loving stop
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Jan 21, 2016 19:01
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UV_Catastrophe posted:Our only blessing here is that Bundy and Co. are Alex Jones-ian, sovcit crazies instead of some other less openly ridiculous right-wing group, whose message might likely be taken much more seriously by a certain deranged demographic in this fine country. We can laugh and laugh at Bundy and his loony gang doing and saying stupid poo poo all day, but it appears that, despite their warped ideology, they're on to a winning strategy here. That's what gets me when people take anything they say at face value. These people are quite clearly unhinged, as are their supporters. All it takes is two minutes watching their live feed chat to see this. Half these people are seriously delusional and get all of their information from YouTube videos that rarely show what they claim but instead feature a paranoid schizophrenic screaming about chem trails and government plots to take down the working man. Hell, ask them to source any of their bullshit claims and you're, at best, going to receive one such video in response, if you don't instead get accusations of being a FBI plant. These people seriously believe that studies exist that secretly show the refuge is bad for wildlife (lol) but when asked they never can find the time to showcase it. So when the same people claim there are rats everywhere and the artifacts have nests in them but don't actually show evidence, it's amazing that some people are still roped in. Aves Maria! fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Jan 21, 2016 |
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Jan 21, 2016 19:02
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Lotka Volterra posted:Speaking as someone who actually knows a few things about animal behavior, their basic drive is going to consist of a few things: Mice and rats in a residence will eat plastic even if the contents aren't edible because they don't give a gently caress. Given enough time they will strip the plastic sheathing off of electrical wires even though they don't care to eat the delicious delicious copper lying inside.
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Jan 21, 2016 19:15
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The Dale Gribble is coming from inside the thread.
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Jan 21, 2016 19:16
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Say what you want about spoiled white manbabies with masculinity issues, they keep the toy trains running on time.
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Jan 21, 2016 19:18
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Aesop Poprock posted:Jesus Christ dude, loving stop "I don't actually have anything to say but I JUST gotta" McDowell posted:The Dale Gribble is coming from inside the thread. Look at all the sovcit/conspiracy crap Ive posted: .
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Jan 21, 2016 19:19
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DeathSandwich posted:Mice and rats in a residence will eat plastic even if the contents aren't edible because they don't give a gently caress. Given enough time they will strip the plastic sheathing off of electrical wires even though they don't care to eat the delicious delicious copper lying inside. Animals typically don't do things "just because" and that's an incredibly stupid position to take.
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Jan 21, 2016 19:20
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Lotka Volterra posted:Animals typically don't do things "just because" and that's an incredibly stupid position to take. Your dp is of a bird, a type of animal known for having a tonne of species doing things specifically to entertain themselves. The rats probably have a reason for chewing wire but you are flat wrong that animals only act to survive.
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Jan 21, 2016 19:23
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I love eating gerbster
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Jan 21, 2016 19:24
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Lotka Volterra posted:So, I would like your theory on why the rodents that live down there would destroy the artifacts. Is it just in their nature? Do they like destroying things for fun? Maybe the rats are SovCits too! Did you even think of that possibility?
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Jan 21, 2016 19:28
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