|
I don't agree with JJ. Rey's arrival causes the Force to awaken R2.
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 07:53 |
|
|
From my point of view the Jedi are evil.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:05
|
|
|
AndyElusive posted:From my point of view the Jedi are evil. Every Jedi I kill is a cycle of violence ended.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:06
|
|
|
Who isn't on the precipice of the Dark side. It's everywhere. Luke used Dark to guide those torpedoes. Light would not abide killing so many people at once like that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:07
|
|
|
But since Rey is responsible for brining Bb8 to r2 I guess I will give Jj's interpretation partial credit.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:09
|
|
|
Beeez posted:Yeah, the one where she's got a really angry look on her face while beating up Kylo that the script even says puts her on the precipice of the Dark Side. That one. I'll admit to going into a book store and skimming the novelization of TFA and I'm almost 99.5% sure there's also a paragraph where it's implied that during the fight with Kylo the Dark Side of the Force is tempting her to finish him in anger for the death of Han Solo and the maiming of Finn. AndyElusive fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Jan 21, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:15
|
|
|
computer parts posted:Yes, the one where she would've killed him if the earth had not literally opened up beneath them to separate the two. Beeez posted:Yeah, the one where she's got a really angry look on her face while beating up Kylo that the script even says puts her on the precipice of the Dark Side. That one. Are you honestly saying that a force user can't look angry while in a fight? Characters aren't emotionless robots. Giving in to your hate, not merely feeling it, is the hallmark of the dark side, and Rey has at this point submitted completely to the Force.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:17
|
|
|
AndyElusive posted:From my point of view the Jedi are evil. From a certain point of view, Anakin died because of Darth Vader. Baronash posted:I'm suddenly very interested to hear how a group of people who fight with swords that can cut through anything would object to the act of killing a bad guy. Killing people - especially with lightsabers - is kind of frowned upon in Star Wars, at least if you're a legitimate good guy.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:19
|
|
|
Ren was disarmed and cowed. If she finished him off hat would have been dark sidy.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:21
|
|
|
I wonder if qui gon and obi ever talked about how obi was right and shouldn't have trained Anakin
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:25
|
|
|
Uh Anakin killed the Emperor so the prophecy was right.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:25
|
|
|
euphronius posted:I don't agree with JJ. Rey's arrival causes the Force to awaken R2. That's what he says in the next line: The director acknowledges that R2’s sudden “awakening” at the end was designed to be an emotional storytelling utility: “While it may seem, you know, completely lucky and an easy way out, at that point in the movie, when you’ve lost a person, desperately, and somebody you hopefully care about is unconscious, you want someone to return.”
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:26
|
|
|
computer parts posted:Killing people - especially with lightsabers - is kind of frowned upon in Star Wars, at least if you're a legitimate good guy. euphronius posted:Ren was disarmed and cowed. If she finished him off hat would have been dark sidy. Which was never shown to be her intention.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:27
|
|
|
euphronius posted:Uh He forgot to get Snoke
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:28
|
|
|
Baronash posted:I'm suddenly very interested to hear how a group of people who fight with swords that can cut through anything would object to the act of killing a bad guy. Dooku did a pretty good job of taking down people non-lethally.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:29
|
|
|
euphronius posted:Uh After killing all the jedi and having ruled the galaxy by the Emperor's side with an iron fist
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:29
|
|
|
porfiria posted:That's what he says in the next line: I don't read it that way but maybe you are right!
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:30
|
|
|
cargohills posted:After killing all the jedi and having ruled the galaxy by the Emperor's side with an iron fist Yeah and thank god he did. The Jedi were terrible. Also he didn't kill all the Jedi now did he.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:32
|
|
|
Chucat posted:Dooku did a pretty good job of taking down people non-lethally. Ignoring the part where he was about to deliver to finishing blow to Obi-Wan, sure.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:32
|
|
|
Baronash posted:It's really not. Obi-Wan congratulates Anakin for finishing off Dooku, though it's doubtful he had the full story. It's only the specific circumstances of that killing, and Windu's attempted killing of Palpatine, that were "not the Jedi way." "A Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack.” – Yoda It's heavily implied outside of the movies that Mace Windu floated around in that grey area between light and dark when saber fighting. This is represented by the purple drank colored blade of his lightsaber. So that speaks towards his decision to kill Palps rather than taking him alive. Obi-Wan giving Anakin props for offing Dooku is just one of the list of ways that Obi-Wan failed Anakin during his friendship with him.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:34
|
|
|
Baronash posted:It's really not. Obi-Wan congratulates Anakin for finishing off Dooku, though it's doubtful he had the full story. It's only the specific circumstances of that killing, and Windu's attempted killing of Palpatine, that were "not the Jedi way." That's under the assumption that the Jedi Order was mostly right.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:35
|
|
|
I'm a little surprised people had as much trouble as they did with the monarchism point—I think it's among the less arcane of SMG's readings, honestly. In a certain sense the rebels/resistance are pretty much just Hobbesian-by-default in the same generalized way that the protagonists of a ton of fantasy and romantic literature are. The feudal, pastoral and personal is good; the industrialized, modern, and systematized is bad. Leia and her circle don't literally want a king (which is maybe what was tripping people up? 'Monarchist' is a kind of glib, reductionist label) but they want the unilateral power to 'make things right' concentrated in the hands of a specific person/persons based on that/those individual's intrinsic capability to rule. Sure in the literalist sense you can argue that being force sensitive is a more legitimate/'objective' quality than divine investiture, but at the base level it sure as poo poo is not any representative government the film is asking us to root for. E: to put it another way, if a character would answer the question "who is best-equipped to lead society and solve its problems?" with "a select few genetic elite" they aren't not a monarchist HookedOnChthonics fucked around with this message at 21:41 on Jan 21, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:37
|
|
|
euphronius posted:Yeah and thank god he did. The Jedi were terrible. Agreed, gently caress younglings.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:37
|
|
|
Darth Aatrek.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:38
|
|
|
RBA Starblade posted:Agreed, gently caress younglings. I think most people would agree killing baby Hitler would be moral? This was a topic in the republican primary iirc.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:39
|
|
|
euphronius posted:Yeah and thank god he did. The Jedi were terrible. okay, he let the clones kill most of them and let yoda die of old age but it still counts euphronius posted:I think most people would agree killing baby Hitler would be moral? This was a topic in the republican primary iirc. killing babies is bad
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:39
|
|
|
The "only for knowledge and defense" thing speaks to why the Jedi should never be acting as soldiers or as representatives of any specific government. They end up in all kinds of situations where they have to "defend", but really they're fooling themselves. When a Jedi shows up as a representative of the Republic to end a trade dispute, just because things go south and they have to fight their way out doesn't mean they weren't the aggressors in the situation. That scene at the beginning of TPM is the best example in all of the films of how the Jedi have been used by the Republic and what they actually get up to day to day. They're enforcers basically.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:40
|
|
|
cargohills posted:okay, he let the clones kill most of them and let yoda die of old age but it still counts I know killing babies is bad it was a joke. I was serious though about not killing all the Jedi. He does not kill Luke or more accurately let him die. Which was important.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:41
|
|
|
Baronash posted:Ignoring the part where he was about to deliver to finishing blow to Obi-Wan, sure. That doesn't mean that Dooku didn't cleanly subdue him in a way that Obi-Want was able to recover from rather easily later on.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:41
|
|
|
Baronash posted:Are you honestly saying that a force user can't look angry while in a fight? Characters aren't emotionless robots. Giving in to your hate, not merely feeling it, is the hallmark of the dark side, and Rey has at this point submitted completely to the Force. If they look angry, they most likely are angry, and angrily attacking somebody is an avenue toward the Dark Side. When you have both the script and the novelization agreeing with our interpretation that Rey was angry, almost killed Kylo Ren in anger, and was teetering on the edge of the Dark Side, I don't see any reason to doubt that interpretation. She deepened her connection to the Force, but that doesn't mean she's protected from the Dark Side.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:42
|
|
|
euphronius posted:I was serious though about not killing all the Jedi. He does not kill Luke or more accurately let him die. Which was important. he kills all of them but Luke though
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:43
|
|
|
They did a good job of protecting the galaxy while maintaining that air of using The Force for knowledge and defense for 1000 years. It's not like carrying a defensive weapon like a lightsaber immediately means you're the worst choice when it comes to choosing a representative during trade negotiations. It just means you're more likely to survive when the negotiations turn sour.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:43
|
|
|
cargohills posted:he kills all of them but Luke though Yes. The prophecy never said he wouldn't do that.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:44
|
|
|
AndyElusive posted:They did a good job of protecting the galaxy while maintaining that air of using The Force for knowledge and defense for 1000 years. It's not like carrying a defensive weapon like a lightsaber immediately means you're the worst choice when it comes to choosing a representative during trade negotiations. It just means you're more likely to survive when the negotiations turn sour. The lightsaber is the least of it. Jedi can plant ideas in peoples minds and sense the future. They can choke you out without ever touching you. They are an intimidating presence and using them as "negotiators" sends a very clear message.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:51
|
|
|
If Qui-Gon had done his due diligence and read ALL of the prophecy he would have noticed the small 5pt text that stated The Chosen One would also kill the gently caress out of a lot of younglings while bringing balance to The Force.Basebf555 posted:The lightsaber is the least of it. Jedi can plant ideas in peoples minds and sense the future. They can choke you out without ever touching you. They are an intimidating presence and using them as "negotiators" sends a very clear message. That message is "don't gently caress with these passive and peaceful negotiators". A force user who uses his powers to manipulate the minds of those they're negotiating with by virtue isn't Jedi and would be a poor choice to send. Also Jedi don't force choke fools unless they sport red laser swords. AndyElusive fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Jan 21, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:51
|
|
|
AndyElusive posted:That message is "don't gently caress with these passive and peaceful negotiators". A force user who uses his powers to manipulate the minds of those they're negotiating with by virtue aren't Jedi. Multiple times we're shown Jedi attempting to manipulate the minds of those they are negotiating with. More than once. Jedi don't choke people for the most part, but they're perfectly capable of it. Jedi and Sith aren't as different as you are making them out to be.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:57
|
|
|
AndyElusive posted:If Qui-Gon had done his due diligence and read ALL of the prophecy he would have noticed the small 5pt text that stated The Chosen One would also kill the gently caress out of a lot of younglings while bringing balance to The Force. I half suspect that Qui-Gon would have fine with it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:59
|
|
|
The only times we see Jedi attempt to use mind trick for personal gain during negotiations is usually when the stakes are high and usually for comedic purposes because it doesn't work ie. Qui-Gon vs Watto, Luke vs Jabba. Maybe there's an example of this that counters what I just said in The Clone Wars or something though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 22:02
|
|
|
AndyElusive posted:The only times we see Jedi attempt to use mind trick for personal gain during negotiations is usually when the stakes are high and usually for comedic purposes because it doesn't work ie. Qui-Gon vs Watto, Luke vs Jabba. Comedic purposes? I don't even know how that's relevant. If the Jedi code changes depending on the stakes its not much of a code is it?
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 22:04
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 14, 2024 07:53 |
|
|
Violent resistance is not inherently evil, the confederacy deserved to fall, clones willingly fight to free another species that reproduces via mass-production and deserve medals composed of various space minerals my (therefore the best) reading of the PT
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 22:05
|
|
