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MesoTroniK posted:I honestly would be extremely curious to see how David (official artist) would approach such a challenge. Sure thing! Looking at what you're going for, the rendering is pretty solid. I think the #1 improvement you can make is in colour. Check this out:  I looked up some reference pictures of horseshoe crabs (they have blue blood, so they can look super weird) for inspiration, and saw how the shells would get almost pink in the highlights or in the sharp, thin parts, while they got deeper and almost purple in the dark or areas with body mass behind them. By contrast, your default hull colour is using a colour ramp of blue that's all almost the exact same hue and follows an almost linear saturation curve from light to dark. What I did really quick is selected all the hull-blue, warmed up the highlights with some pink/yellow, and added some more saturation and purple/red to the darks. Now the hue and saturation curves are fairly extreme and it looks quite a bit more organic, I think! (Not a terrifically subtle modification job, especially where I blow out the highlights to almost white! But uh, I was being hasty about it). So, easy: Just make sure your colour ramps aren't all the same hue. I do this with all the "vanilla" ships (as much as I can, anyway) -- check out the sprites and compare the colour of the highlight, midtone, and shadow on them and you'll see that they're generally very different. The Onslaught, for example, (roughly) has very purple darks, rust-red/dull gold midtones, and almost cream highlights.
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Jan 18, 2016 06:14
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David, your artwork and color theory are awesome. What are some of the things you try and keep consistent across a faction/theme when you're designing a bunch of related ships? Colors, angles, engines, greebles? I mostly just want to hear more about this: quote:(In a later message Alex would suggest a good set of qualities to distinguish Tri-Tachyon hull variants beyond just piling on energy slots. It seems quite promising and I’m excited to draw them. But I digress.) Also, you wouldn't happen to have any concept art for the Tempest frigate kicking around from the same period as the weapons from the most recent blog post? I just want to see it from the side. http://fractalsoftworks.com/2016/01/16/the-ion-pulser-development-process/#more-2610 New blog post for those who missed it. Tanith fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Jan 18, 2016 |
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Jan 18, 2016 06:49
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Tanith posted:What are some of the things you try and keep consistent across a faction/theme when you're designing a bunch of related ships? Colors, angles, engines, greebles? I mostly just want to hear more about this: Hmm, uh. Mostly when making a new ship for a theme (be it a faction, techlevel, or role) I just pull up all the existing ships similar to the theme in question and take visual inspiration from those, plus just rolling with whatever new angle I'm excited about. As for the details of Tri-Tachyon ships, I have no comment. (Those TriTach NDAs are serious business!) Tanith posted:Also, you wouldn't happen to have any concept art for the Tempest frigate kicking around from the same period as the weapons from the most recent blog post? I just want to see it from the side. Found it! Note that this is a super fast and crappy sketch, it's top-down, and it is in fact the only concept art there is for the Tempest. (You get some original sketches of the Gemini, Venture, and Apogee for free.)  I went really, really quickly from the practice of 'selling' the ideas for ships to Alex to just drawing the drat things as fast as I could. (Edit: Oh, and ironically I managed to never take a colour theory class in art school. This was, by the way, a mistake.)
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Jan 18, 2016 07:26
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David, thank you for that incredibly insightful post. While I will not work on the colors of the sprites in the update I am working on (it is already hilariously behind schedule) it is something I will take to heart and do in the future.
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Jan 18, 2016 07:59
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Kraven Moorhed posted:My bad on not clarifying, and for being a bit hyperbolic considering how specific my qualms are. They're well-executed (I love the organic shading overlayed on tubing/circuitry - there's a copy of ARh+ right next to my computer, so it's right up my alley) but some aspects of the aesthetic just ruin the whole thing for me. I feel like the flanges, spikes and claws are going a bit overboard on some ships and end up unbalancing the otherwise great silhouettes. Also it really feels like some of those ships are seen from an impossible/strange angle. The grill-like things at the front of the wings of the capital ship for example make it feel like you're seeing the front of the wings from above, like you're looking at it from ahead and above, while the rest of the ship (and vanilla ships) are from directly above.
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Jan 18, 2016 11:54
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dbaumgart posted:Hmm, uh. Mostly when making a new ship for a theme (be it a faction, techlevel, or role) I just pull up all the existing ships similar to the theme in question and take visual inspiration from those, plus just rolling with whatever new angle I'm excited about. I have a question regrading the ship design - why are so many designs asymmetrical? Is it simply because they look cool? Or is there some deeper reasoning behind this? I ask out of pure curiosity, rather than to critisize. I really like the designs of ships like the hound and wolf, but I'm not a fan of many larger ships (with the exception of the excellent Eagle, Sunder and Hammerhead). Civilian ships don't really count - the tankers look great. From a pure combat and engineering perspective most of the ship designs don't make a whole lot of sense (lots of unique parts, asymmetrical weapon profiles create weaker areas of coverage, wide ships are typically much easier to hit from range). That said, this is not a realistic game so I don't expect all war ships to be giant armoured dildos bristling with concealable weapon ports (just had an idea for a mod).
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Jan 18, 2016 12:57
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A Good Post
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Jan 18, 2016 20:23
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dbaumgart posted:Handy stuff to keep in mind with spriting. This is generally very handy advice to keep in mind while spriting, or doing any kind of color work in general. Also makes things easier on the eyes; simple value changes can be somewhat difficult to make out. Also, this reminds me... while it's somewhat less the case with the underlaiment for SRA ships, the outer hulls for the craft are unfortunately monotone--I set the colors for that before I'd picked up on the importance of hue shifting--and it's something which I've been forgetting to fix, despite noticing the problem several times. Time to add that to the todo list so I actually, y'know, remember to do it for the next major Shadowyards release.
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Jan 18, 2016 20:46
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Jinx posted:I have a question regrading the ship design - why are so many designs asymmetrical? Is it simply because they look cool? Or is there some deeper reasoning behind this? You've basically got the answer there: Starsector is not a realistic game. (Aside, I do think a realistic space combat game would be absolutely fascinating/terrifying but it would look nothing like Starsector. And it'd be very confusing and consist largely of tediously important maneuvers interspersed by moments of utter chaos and destruction. Imagine playing Kerbal Space Program with combat! ANYway... ) ... Starsector was made with a pretty clear idea of what sort of gameplay was desired -- you know, the pew pew arcade/tactical shooting with deep mechanics -- and from that all else follows. The ships and weapons must be easily identifiable at a glance. The ships must fit on the screen and be reasonably visible at common engagement ranges (which is why there is little in the way of "sniper" weapons but a few failed experiments with the Tachyon Lance). The ships must interact with the mechanics interestingly. If all ships were symmetrical, then you couldn't (say) make a meaningful decision to try to maneuver to get into a position to attack an enemy on a particular side that has less coverage of whatever weapon counters your attack. Or you wouldn't have to worry about which side of your ship has good PD coverage vs. the alpha strike you're trying to pull off. It's all driven by the mechanics! Well; that, plus a bit of narrative flavouring.
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Jan 19, 2016 04:11
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dbaumgart posted:You've basically got the answer there: Starsector is not a realistic game. (Aside, I do think a realistic space combat game would be absolutely fascinating/terrifying but it would look nothing like Starsector. And it'd be very confusing and consist largely of tediously important maneuvers interspersed by moments of utter chaos and destruction. Imagine playing Kerbal Space Program with combat! ANYway... ) Stuff would die a lot faster, and at much longer ranges. I am probably showing my age - but real space combat would look more like the Rules of Engagement (youtube) games. dbaumgart posted:... Starsector was made with a pretty clear idea of what sort of gameplay was desired -- you know, the pew pew arcade/tactical shooting with deep mechanics -- and from that all else follows. The ships and weapons must be easily identifiable at a glance. The ships must fit on the screen and be reasonably visible at common engagement ranges (which is why there is little in the way of "sniper" weapons but a few failed experiments with the Tachyon Lance). The ships must interact with the mechanics interestingly. If all ships were symmetrical, then you couldn't (say) make a meaningful decision to try to maneuver to get into a position to attack an enemy on a particular side that has less coverage of whatever weapon counters your attack. Or you wouldn't have to worry about which side of your ship has good PD coverage vs. the alpha strike you're trying to pull off. It's all driven by the mechanics! Well; that, plus a bit of narrative flavouring. Anyway  Starsector's art is gorgeous and I really hope you add more (symmetrical) ships to vanilla in the future.
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Jan 19, 2016 10:23
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There's a new blog post up about weapon development that's really interesting. But the coolest thing to me is the concept art of some of the guns from a different perspective. Turns out they look really good from the side - not just top down.
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Jan 20, 2016 19:31
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I wish it were possible to teach my captains that sometimes it’s a bad idea to fire HE at shields till their ship fills up on soft flux.
Platystemon fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Jan 21, 2016 |
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Jan 21, 2016 01:30
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But the more high explosive you fire, the bigger the bang???
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Jan 21, 2016 06:34
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So apparently someone adopted and updated Kadur? Haven't had time to fire it up yet, but, cautious optimism.
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Jan 22, 2016 00:38
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Ceebees posted:So apparently someone adopted and updated Kadur? Haven't had time to fire it up yet, but, cautious optimism. Same dude who did the Higs, though tbh I was never a huge fan of Kadur. 
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Jan 22, 2016 01:07
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dbaumgart posted:more great stuff Thank you again for taking the time to respond and dig out some concept art.
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Jan 22, 2016 02:47
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Starsector+ has a couple of pirate ships that I expected to be rubbish, but with the right loadouts are actually quite good: If you want to go in circles (clockwise only) and kill everything, this ship has you covered. Only 18 points to deploy.  The hellbore cannons here cover almost 180 degree down each side of the ship, so you can fight anything with them as long as its not dead ahead. This is the built‐in gun. Great range, damage‐per‐shot, burst capability, and flux efficiency. What’s not to like? Good for getting an opening salvo in or finishing off flux‐locked or overloaded enemies. Flavour text says it’s based on the Odyssey. If you look closely, you can see it keeps the flight deck. I’d take it over an Odyssey any day. (Unless the Odyssey has Neutrino Corp’s Bane boson accelerator. Those make it a good ship.) Platystemon fucked around with this message at 05:06 on Jan 22, 2016 |
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Jan 22, 2016 05:00
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Getting your hands on those ships is very hard, never seen them for sale or capturable as part of a fleet. I did find the Boar quite nice.
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Jan 22, 2016 05:13
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McGiggins posted:Getting your hands on those ships is very hard, never seen them for sale or capturable as part of a fleet. Now that you mention it, I was taking over the last pirate base in Nexelerin, and the Dragon was the flagship of the response fleet. I was lucky enough to get a chance to board it. I saw them rolling with Barbarians regularly, but Nexelerin tends to spawn more powerful NPC fleets, so that probably helps. I bought mine, though, from that same pirate base.
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Jan 22, 2016 05:51
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I put 4x double Clarent racks on my captured Morpheus, with expanded missile racks and full missile specialization skills. I think this thing constitutes a mobile war crime  VVV You know i did! Ceebees fucked around with this message at 10:52 on Jan 22, 2016 |
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Jan 22, 2016 08:59
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Ceebees posted:I put 4x double Clarent racks on my captured Morpheus, with expanded missile racks and full missile specialization skills. Did you put expanded magazines on for 4 homing laser missiles?
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Jan 22, 2016 09:21
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I just did a mission to deliver 250 organs for 2.2 million spacebucks. What do I do with 2.2 million spacebucks?
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Jan 22, 2016 16:12
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wolfman101 posted:I just did a mission to deliver 250 organs for 2.2 million spacebucks. What do I do with 2.2 million spacebucks? Harvested Organs seem like the best commodity in the game right now. If you can afford the up front cost and don't mind carrying them around waiting for a good opportunity, missions like this one occasionally pop up that pay an insane amount. Nomios sells Harvested Organs at a substantial discount and usually has a couple hundred in stock. Plan to set yourself up with way more money than you need: Pick up cheapo organs from Nomios --> wait for a mission paying at least 2k/unit (though it can go much higher especially with early completion bonus, see above) --> profit.
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Jan 22, 2016 16:50
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wolfman101 posted:I just did a mission to deliver 250 organs for 2.2 million spacebucks. What do I do with 2.2 million spacebucks? In vanilla you can collect all the ships, otherwise you can visit the high-end seller in nexelerin and buy perhaps 2-4 ships 
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Jan 22, 2016 17:07
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Mordja posted:Same dude who did the Higs, though tbh I was never a huge fan of Kadur.
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Jan 22, 2016 18:59
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From what I remember? Hella front-loaded triangles, lots of long-range ballistics, can't turn for poo poo. There's nothing wrong with them, I just think most modern faction mods have more interesting ships, abilities and weapons is all.
Mordja fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Jan 22, 2016 |
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Jan 22, 2016 19:04
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That does sound a little one-dimensional. I sort of want to play as the Templars, just because they're flashy as heck. I'd probably need to, like, halve the damage on all their weapons to even approach something that resembles a fair fight. Are there any other nerfs I should consider implementing? Soup du Journey fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Jan 22, 2016 |
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Jan 22, 2016 19:16
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Don't nerf their weapons, buff everyone else's. If a templar fight doesn't result in constant exploding ships interspersed with bullshit anime sound effects and laser sparkly teleporting you're not doing it right.
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Jan 22, 2016 20:39
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Also, I am kind of new to the game, but is there a way to not get periodically owned by the pirate fleets that sit on top of jump points in hyperspace and hit you before you can get up to speed?
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Jan 22, 2016 21:33
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wolfman101 posted:Also, I am kind of new to the game, but is there a way to not get periodically owned by the pirate fleets that sit on top of jump points in hyperspace and hit you before you can get up to speed? Not really. You can pause during the jump animation, load up the map, and click on another system so you start moving ASAP, but if the pirates are literally on top of you, that won’t help. If you do get an encounter, remember that running is an option.
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Jan 22, 2016 21:49
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Platystemon posted:Not really. You can pause during the jump animation, load up the map, and click on another system so you start moving ASAP, but if the pirates are literally on top of you, that won’t help. I tried retreating, but when they have a fleet of 15 and I have a fleet of 8, they are going to catch a few of your slower ships
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Jan 22, 2016 23:04
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Bold Robot posted:Nomios sells Harvested Organs at a substantial discount and usually has a couple hundred in stock. Having funded a mad collector's urge up to 250 ships in the ATC primarily through the trafficking of freshly disembodied organs (or the generation of same via million-credit bounties), my issue with trying to make bank on organs was usually more in quantity available for sale than the price. So long as the mission reward is over 2000cr/unit, you're making a huge profit no matter what you paid, so stock up! Aztlan's inner planet (Chicomoztoc?) almost always has a massive supply of thousands of tons of organs on the black market for those 'please bring us 3000 of $Commodity' missions, and its prices are pretty sensitive to disruption if you want to try to play the market. If you need to pick up a few more for a job, Volturn in Askonia also usually has a few hundred. wolfman101 posted:I tried retreating, but when they have a fleet of 15 and I have a fleet of 8, they are going to catch a few of your slower ships Getting gatecamped kind of is just a thing you have to deal with. But, i suppose you could either A - sally forth in force enough to shatter any pirate patrol, or B - let someone else go through the spacehole first and quickly scurry through in their wake?
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Jan 22, 2016 23:37
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Ceebees posted:B - let someone else go through the spacehole first and quickly scurry through in their wake? That’s a clever idea, but maybe Starsector shouldn’t allow gatecamping to happen. Maybe drop the player near the hole, but far enough from existing fleets to allow them you to outrun them if you superior burn capability. Justify it as “hyperdrives have repulsive action on each other during transitions” or “using the spice melange, your navigator sees and avoids other fleets”. There’s some precedent in that exiting hyperspace using a gas giant’s gravity well drops you on a random side of the planet.
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Jan 22, 2016 23:51
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Platystemon posted:That’s a clever idea, but maybe Starsector shouldn’t allow gatecamping to happen. Why? There's already features in place that deal with this: fringe gates and going dark. Going through the front door with an active transponder when you're just starting out is asking for trouble, and the game will happily oblige if you decide to forego both brains and brawn. Your solution sounds plausible, but way too rubber-bandy on either end (imagine chasing a fleet through a gravity well only to lose it thanks to popping out on the other side). This game rewards pressing the advantage, and it punishes poor planning. I think it's functioning as intended. Kraven Moorhed fucked around with this message at 00:24 on Jan 23, 2016 |
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Jan 23, 2016 00:21
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Do pirates intentionally gatecamp, though? I think it’s more bad luck that they happen to be in the area. Pirates prey on trade routes in general, and trade routes run through major gates, but all of a system’s gates are close enough together in hyperspace that the fringe gate isn’t much less likely to have a pirate fleet close enough to jump you, certainly not enough to justify travelling four times as far. e: Also, Starsector should have a “pause on hostile contact” option. Turn it off on iron mode or make it cost something if you must, but watching my fleet fly through empty space for five minutes is an unfun mechanic. Platystemon fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Jan 23, 2016 |
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Jan 23, 2016 01:05
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it shouldn't take you five minutes to get anywhere. You know you can hold down shift to speed up time?
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Jan 23, 2016 02:02
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i had the same reaction. the Exigency ships are amazing.
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Jan 24, 2016 21:01
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grimcreaper posted:i had the same reaction. the Exigency ships are amazing.
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Jan 24, 2016 21:42
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Doctor Schnabel posted:That being said, some of the feedback, especially from the Starsector Art Guy (who I guess posts here???) is really good. That color theory stuff was super cool and informative and makes me wish for paler, horseshoe exigencies Yeah I totally agree.
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Jan 24, 2016 21:59
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why would i ever install a dedicated targeting core instead of an integrated targeting unit?
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Jan 24, 2016 22:35
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