|
You know, painting with that broad a brush is pretty loving dumb. Not to mention it's a whole lot more than field hands getting the axe. It's a fair discussion that reducing consumption is a good thing and this could have environmental benefits but blaming people for getting let go is very FYGM.
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 19:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 19, 2024 03:38 |
|
|
I think it comes more from a mentality of "gently caress your lovely dirty job." The same thing happens with the coal industry, where they worry about coal being regulated until there aren't any jobs for people. If the market doesn't support your polluting, inefficient extraction industry, then too bad.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 19:45
|
|
|
Unfortunately life as we know it is impossible without oil. Yes, even if we go 100% renewable/nuclear.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 19:52
|
|
|
Last Buffalo posted:I think it comes more from a mentality of "gently caress your lovely dirty job." The same thing happens with the coal industry, where they worry about coal being regulated until there aren't any jobs for people. If the market doesn't support your polluting, inefficient extraction industry, then too bad. Which again is tarring the workers with the same brush as the job. Yeah their job is lovely, but there's a reason why they're doing it: there's no other work available, certainly no better work.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 19:55
|
|
|
computer parts posted:Which again is tarring the workers with the same brush as the job. Yeah their job is lovely, but there's a reason why they're doing it: there's no other work available, certainly no better work. Definitely no better work. I know guys who barely got out of high school and were scraping by with warehouse work who went up to Minot and made good money while the boom was on. And yeah, some of them blew through it all on expensive toys and hookers, but I can't blame a guy who's never had money and doesn't know how to manage it if he fucks up and overspends.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 19:57
|
|
|
Immature/ignorant people who blow through their money in a cyclical industry deserve pity not spite.hobbesmaster posted:Unfortunately life as we know it is impossible without hydrocarbons. ftfy
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 19:58
|
|
|
Trabisnikof posted:Immature/ignorant people who blow through their money in a cyclical industry deserve pity not spite. I feel more sympathy for the people who lived within their means but are going through tough times as a result of circumstances beyond their control. But to be fair many of the workers were young guys exposed to big money for the first time. I never blamed anyone for getting laid off either.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 20:08
|
|
|
Last Buffalo posted:I think it comes more from a mentality of "gently caress your lovely dirty job." The same thing happens with the coal industry, where they worry about coal being regulated until there aren't any jobs for people. If the market doesn't support your polluting, inefficient extraction industry, then too bad. This, I think, is fair. But let's call it that and not blame the people trying to make a living. Edit: blame is probably the wrong word. Enjoy the misery of...perhaps. Acelerion fucked around with this message at 20:34 on Jan 21, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 20:30
|
|
|
Right, I don't think spite is helpful, but I don't see them as victims. This was a bubble from the beginning, right? A bit of conciousness about the industry you're throwing your lot in with does go a long way. This is happening with a lot of industries in the heartland, where technology and globalization are making the things inefficient and labor less needed. These workers need retraining and a different industry to depend on. How much of the boom money went into investing in something more long term.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 20:35
|
|
|
The Gunslinger posted:I feel more sympathy for the people who lived within their means but are going through tough times as a result of circumstances beyond their control. But to be fair many of the workers were young guys exposed to big money for the first time. I never blamed anyone for getting laid off either. I work in a coal mine and have spent the last five years getting my degree. While I know that reducing fossil fuel production is good in the long run, the area in which I live is very dependent upon coal. It's no fun watching an entire region suffer through layoffs and changing financial situations. Pretty much every person around here suffers in some way after a layoff regardless of their political affiliation or environmental stance. Many of us saw this coming years ago but a lot of people don't have the self-control or mental capacity needed to foresee and react to this sort of crisis. Not to mention, the mine owners use the supposed 'stability' of a mine job as a way to motivate their employees to produce more.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 20:39
|
|
|
Some will learn and plan better next time. Others will leave the oil industry and find something more stable. The rest are sitting at home, blaming it on Obama and those libtards and will do the entire thing over again in 10 years.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 20:44
|
|
|
Most of these little boom towns are in poor as poo poo areas. Big companies roll in offering more money than people have ever seen in their lifetimes, not to mention what it does to the local service economy. It may be asking too much for those people to have a more mature economic understanding. There are also the mercenary folks who jump from boom to boom chasing work. They tend to be the more savvy players and more likely to hedge against the next bust.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 20:48
|
|
|
hobbesmaster posted:Unfortunately life as we know it is impossible without oil.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 21:01
|
|
|
Last Buffalo posted:...This was a bubble from the beginning, right ... A bit of conciousness about the industry you're throwing your lot in with does go a long way. Plenty of experts with all-the-right-credentials were predicting peak oil + increased demand (China, India, etc) would lead to perpetually higher prices. It's a bit much to expect some random roughneck to do a better job forecasting.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 22:50
|
|
|
i'm glad the oil people are losing their jobs. i think it's good.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 22:57
|
|
|
Karl Barks posted:i'm glad the oil people are losing their jobs. i think it's good. But what if it's actually bad? Have you considered that?
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 23:00
|
|
|
I think the government should step in to help people in dirty industries retrain into clean ones.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 23:03
|
|
|
Last Buffalo posted:How much of the boom money went into investing in something more long term. Pickups, strippers and beer are investments right? Hell they can't repo tattoos. Basically what you think would happen when you give barely educated hourly folk $100k+ a year isn't nearly as bad as what actually happens. On my level though, my oil field related clients have all done multiple boom/bust cycles so they spent their money upgrading and paying off any debt. An established company that doesn't have any payments to make outside of payroll and go pretty slim and stay in business. Newer companies that are making payments on their business cards, let alone their equipment and buildings? They are hella boned.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 23:07
|
|
|
hobbesmaster posted:Unfortunately life as we know it is impossible without oil. http://alaska.conocophillips.com/what-we-do/oil-production/Pages/what-is-oil-used-for.aspx
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 23:11
|
|
|
Karl Barks posted:i'm glad the oil people are losing their jobs. i think it's good. Couldn't have happened to a nicer industry. Perhaps this will put a nice dent in GOP fundraising from that sector.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 23:11
|
|
|
Zeroisanumber posted:But what if it's actually bad? Have you considered that? It's good for the wildlife of Alberta. Now they just need about 100 years for it revert back to something that doesn't look like a stripmine.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 23:14
|
|
|
Zeno-25 posted:Couldn't have happened to a nicer industry. Perhaps this will put a nice dent in GOP fundraising from that sector. The majors will still make money. The reason they made record profits when the price was super high is the same reason that they'll do better than break even when the price is low. Though it is lower than low at the moment <$30 is crazy.... Buckwheat Sings posted:It's good for the wildlife of Alberta. Now they just need about 100 years for it revert back to something that doesn't look like a stripmine. I was at an oil/gas conference in Calgary maybe 2 years ago. They had some ridiculous projections about growth of the Albertan oil fields, like quadrupling in less 5 years and the price of oil being over $180 or something equally ridiculous. I guess it could still happen? 
hobbesmaster fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Jan 21, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 23:17
|
|
|
Buckwheat Sings posted:It's good for the wildlife of Alberta. Now they just need about 100 years for it revert back to something that doesn't look like a stripmine. But no matter how hard you try it will never stop looking like Canada.
|
|
#
?
Jan 21, 2016 23:18
|
|
|
Usually when drillers/frackers move into a new area, they bring workers in from outside the state, so the locals aren't benefited except by having the land around them torn up and a shitload of huge trucks going by every night. Whenever a (probably republican) governor tries to say that they're bringing new jobs and wealth into the area it's pretty much always bullshit. They'll suck the profit out of the area, and then move on.
Mercury_Storm fucked around with this message at 00:20 on Jan 22, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 00:02
|
|
|
Counter point: local bars and strip clubs benefit greatly.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 00:04
|
|
|
Buckwheat Sings posted:It's good for the wildlife of Alberta. Now they just need about 100 years for it revert back to something that doesn't look like a stripmine. As someone who grew up in an area that was strip mined 80+ years ago I can assure you the oil sands are going to need a lot longer than that to recover. Any waterways that are contaminated with metals and other toxic poo poo are pretty much a lost cause for a very long time because its hard for anything to live in something where the bottom is layered in poison (in addition to the water itself being unlivable).
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 00:19
|
|
|
Evil Fluffy posted:As someone who grew up in an area that was strip mined 80+ years ago I can assure you the oil sands are going to need a lot longer than that to recover. Any waterways that are contaminated with metals and other toxic poo poo are pretty much a lost cause for a very long time because its hard for anything to live in something where the bottom is layered in poison (in addition to the water itself being unlivable). 
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 00:20
|
|
|
Evil Fluffy posted:As someone who grew up in an area that was strip mined 80+ years ago I can assure you the oil sands are going to need a lot longer than that to recover. Any waterways that are contaminated with metals and other toxic poo poo are pretty much a lost cause for a very long time because its hard for anything to live in something where the bottom is layered in poison (in addition to the water itself being unlivable). What makes it worse is the US has stricter reclamation laws than Canada too....
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 00:22
|
|
|
Mercury_Storm posted:Usually when drillers/frackers move into a new area, they bring workers in from outside the state, so the locals aren't benefited except by having the land around them torn up and a shitload of huge trucks going by every night. Whenever a (probably republican) governor tries to say that they're bringing new jobs and wealth into the area it's pretty much always bullshit. They'll suck the profit out of the area, and then move on. When thousands of new people with money move into Nowhereville and start buying poo poo it will, in fact, benefit the locals economically.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 00:36
|
|
|
Warbadger posted:When thousands of new people with money move into Nowhereville and start buying poo poo it will, in fact, benefit the locals economically. In someways but not others. Its great if you own a man-camp, not so great if your roads are ruined by trucks and you can't drive when it rains. Its great for the truck stop but not so great for the kids at the county park.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 00:46
|
|
|
Also not so great when the Governor gives his new oil pals insane deals so they pay extremely low to no taxes. I'm sure the local Hilton gets a big influx of cash, but lol.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 00:52
|
|
|
Buckwheat Sings posted:It's good for the wildlife of Alberta. Now they just need about 10,000 years for it revert back to something that doesn't look like a stripmine. Fixed that for you.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 00:58
|
|
|
No a bunch of dudes showing up, wrecking everything and buying a bunch of beer and spending the rest on strippers is not a great boost to the economy.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 01:12
|
|
|
I mean that derisive summary aside generally yeah it's a boost to the economy and to the extent the government is functioning it can be an even bigger one.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 01:27
|
|
|
Mercury_Storm posted:Also not so great when the Governor gives his new oil pals insane deals so they pay extremely low to no taxes. I'm sure the local Hilton gets a big influx of cash, but lol. Where is this? I know anyone in the Marcellus/Utica/Bakken was paying a poo poo ton of taxes, individuals and companies. I had to fork up 35k last year for gods sake. Your dinky back road is all torn up? The amount we paid in permits/leases for using those roads was insane as well. In Pennsylvania I've never seen so many newly paved roads out in the middle of nowhere... poo poo, even the dude selling sandwiches on drill pads probably raked in 100k+. Anyone who wanted a piece of the pie got plenty. Any state, city, county, or individual who did not invest/save their money wisely is entirely at fault. The first day I started in the oilfield (and I had no knowledge of the industry prior) I was told to save my money because things are going to go bust again, that was 4 years ago. ganglysumbia fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Jan 22, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 01:42
|
|
|
ganglysumbia posted:Your dinky back road is all torn up? The amount we paid in permits/leases for using those roads was insane as well. In Pennsylvania I've never seen so many newly paved roads out in the middle of nowhere... poo poo, even the dude selling sandwiches on drill pads probably raked in 100k+. Anyone who wanted a piece of the pie got plenty. Really? There are lots of states where the legislature is in the pocket of industry and it doesn't matter what the local community or government tries to do, the state shuts it down. Setback requirements, road maintenance, emissions are all things where the state government can eagerly gently caress over a community on. Like sucks to be you if your community is more than a day's drive from a air quality inspector, it is going to be really hard to catch an operator illegally releasing if they only do it for 8 hours at a time (and at night).
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 01:51
|
|
|
ganglysumbia posted:Where is this? I know anyone in the Marcellus/Utica/Bakken was paying a poo poo ton of taxes, individuals and companies. I had to fork up 35k last year for gods sake. Other states with major oil industry including Oklahoma are significantly more shall we say laissez faire about, well, everything.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 01:56
|
|
|
Anosmoman posted:Oil subsidies are great I had no clue Kuwait was outproducing Saudi Arabia. As glutted as oil production is right now, imagine if Iraq never got toppled and was producing as much as it could, too.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 02:09
|
|
|
Rand alPaul posted:I had no clue Kuwait was outproducing Saudi Arabia. That's a ratio of oil production to population, not total production. Kuwait has ~3.3m people, Saudi Arabia has ~28.5m.
|
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 03:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 19, 2024 03:38 |
|
|
Shooting Blanks posted:That's a ratio of oil production to population, not total production. Kuwait has ~3.3m people, Saudi Arabia has ~28.5m. Why would they label it that way? Per capita *consumption* makes sense but production seems weird. Rand alPaul fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Jan 22, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 22, 2016 03:18
|
|