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CirclMastr posted:Just wanted to let folks know that the latest Kickstarter campaign I'm involved in has launched. Was the "We're racist, sexist, homophobic shitheads!" expansion your idea, or are you just happy for it to be included?
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Jan 21, 2016 20:43
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Indolent Bastard posted:Snake Oil Salesman, it's period appropriate. Nah, a snake oil salesman actually gave you something, it just wasn't what he said it was. GMS keeps giving people nothing, so he's a grifter or a flim flam man.
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Jan 21, 2016 20:45
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Kwyndig posted:The thing is you CAN do that, but you have to replace it with something else good. Which is the problem, and also the game won't look exactly like Paranoia anymore. It's better to incorporate newer stuff while keeping the old stuff... an idea that nobody involved in a reboot of Paranoia outside of the XP edition ever seemed to get. unseenlibrarian posted:I think a modern Paranoia would probably need to start with modern future-dystopia stories. So basically go full Hunger Games/Divergent/YA dark future hellhole. The trouble is, the game is literally named Paranoia, because the setting recalls the paranoia of the McCarthy era. It's not called Dystopian future, because - although the future it describes is certainly dystopian - that's not the most important or core element of the game. Gameplay in Paranoia is designed to enhance the feeling of paranoia among players, as they're forced to work together but each is provided myriad motivations to try to betray the others, and simultaneously, multiple vulnerabilities to provide reasons for them to be betrayed in turn. If you made a new take on Paranoia, you'd need to retain those elements. Hunger Games is more about an oppressive government, and not much about the fear that your so-called friends are about to stab you in the back, or that you'll be blacklisted by an all-seeing Big Brother. That doesn't mean you couldn't incorporate some of those elements, while retaining Paranoia's essential flavor. But it seems like the people remaking it actually just want to make a different game: one that plays on our current societal fears (fears of terrorism, the bipartisan political divide, global climate change, etc.), which is also fine and has potential. But that game probably shouldn't be called "Paranoia."
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Jan 21, 2016 21:07
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I thought Paranoia XP did a good job of bringing more modern stuff into the game. I especially loved the horrific Liberterian snake-oil Internet-hyper-capitalism type of stuff and "cBay" which has become a staple of my games.
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Jan 21, 2016 21:10
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I thought Paranoia XP did a good job of bringing more modern stuff into the game. I especially loved the horrific Liberterian snake-oil Internet-hyper-capitalism type of stuff and "cBay" which has become a staple of my games. We had such a drat blast with that one. I went all-in with the props.
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Jan 21, 2016 21:53
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I'm pretty sure GMS is a guy without enough sense to know when to quit, and nothing else.
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Jan 21, 2016 21:55
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The thing about (the good versions of) Paranoia that while it does play on the 60's McCarthyism brand of paranoia, it also touched on what people were paranoid about at the time. The era the original game came out in was a time when computers were becoming more commonplace and ubiquitous in business. There was a very real concern that YOUR JOB could be taken away and you would be REPLACED by a computer and now the COMPUTERS manage everything and your whole LIFE could be ruined by a COMPUTER if your government file or whatever got mixed up or lost. It was also a time where computers were being used more and more in the government, leading to more bureaucratic bullcrap that seemed to be becoming more and more commonplace. There was an undercurrent of "oh poo poo computers are going to run everything" at the time, and that plays into how Friend Computer and its associated bureaucracy were presented. In the XP edition, they updated things to what we're paranoid about today, like surveillance states, the economy in flux, things like that. Two of my favorite XP gags are how the economy is such a mess that every plasticred has a little readout that tells you how much it's worth right at that second (hope the value doesn't change mid-transaction!) and how your personal ID card that proves you're you doesn't have your picture on it because no honest citizen would ever pretend to be someone else.
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Jan 21, 2016 22:08
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I politely disagree. 2nd Edition Paranoia is largely a riff on 1984 with more funny bits. The Computer is the ultimate Big Brother, we have always been at war with Eurasia (the commies), you are the very thing you hunt, everything pre-Alpha Complex has been vanished down the memory hole, etc etc etc Admittedly I was very young through most of the decade and it's only anecdotal but nobody I knew was worried about robots taking their jobs. It was not a topic of conversation in the classroom either. We talked about nuking, and being nuked by, the Russians a lot though. Reagan was president and he was cutting government - a lot of his anti-government stance got into the public consciousness and that's why you got games like Bureaucracy or movies being full of weak institutions that needed ONE GOOD COP to take on the problems. The Computer ultimately being an ineffective, wasteful nance who is still incredibly dangerous slots in very nicely with Reagan's idealogy IMO. That's just my take on it.
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Jan 21, 2016 22:20
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I have only played 1st edition and 25th anniversary, and they were both excellent. Overall, 25th anniversary (which is a slightly-adjusted XP) is better, since it has more gaming advice in it (as near as I can remember).
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Jan 21, 2016 22:22
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:That's just my take on it. Admittedly, I'm a loving old fogey around here so it's entirely possible I'm remembering wrong. 
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Jan 21, 2016 22:25
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Thematically, the earnest nationalism of Cold War's "US VS THEM" just utterly fizzles when you try to incorporate the post 9/11 distrust of the government. By Cold War thinking, the enemy was an absolutely external threat. They hate us, they're unlike is, and we cannot coexist. But in modern era, the threat is conspiracy of a coopted government. Everything is false flags and inside jobs. Us is Them. It's muddied shades of brown, compared to the Cold War's hard contrasted black (red?) and white. There's still room in each mode of thinking for intrigue, fear, loathing and paranoia - just not as effectively at the same time.
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Jan 21, 2016 22:28
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Evil Mastermind posted:I was in my late teens in the 80's, and around the turn of the decade (when I was starting college) the idea of computers being EVERYTHING was spreading around. It was like the prequel to the Y2K panic. Nah I'm sure you remembered just fine. But I should point out that Paranoia 2nd edition came out in 1987 which meant it was developed in '85 and '86, and that 1984 (the actual year) had a bunch of thinkpieces about 1984 (the book) friggin' everwhere. I did some research for a project about the 80s that required me to read a bunch of magazines from the middle of the decade and pretty much every major magazine commented on it at some point. So I can't help think that being in Reagan's 2nd term at the tail end of the cold war after 1984 was everywhere had a bunch of influences on the book. But I can't prove it, of course. I find your dread about computers at the end of the 80s completely fascinating, btw, since it simply did not register for someone a few years younger than you.
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Jan 21, 2016 22:41
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Evil Mastermind posted:I was in my late teens in the 80's, and around the turn of the decade (when I was starting college) the idea of computers being EVERYTHING was spreading around. It was like the prequel to the Y2K panic. And also old.
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Jan 21, 2016 22:54
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#FML video 
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Jan 22, 2016 00:18
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Isn't the point of these casual play videos to make you want to be there playing too? Because everything about this made me think of there being a party that these nerds are nominally at, but they're sitting in the kitchen, or a side-room maybe, making mean-spirited jokes about the dumb sheeple in the other rooms and laughing way too hard, really to convince themselves that they're having fun but there's a deep well of insecurity and even self-loathing there. The host comes in occasionally to check on them and make sure they have beers etc but he doesn't really want them there, this is a duty to him, perhaps from a long-standing friendship with one of them that the host knows is coming to a natural, quiet, end, soon. Don't be Icarus baby made me chuckle though that's a pretty good line.
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Jan 22, 2016 01:08
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"Hmmm, I've got to film this YT show soon, should I, like, shave my two day stubble? Maybe iron my shirt, or at least button it up enough so that my gross chest hair isn't poking out? Nah, that poo poo seems too hard."
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Jan 22, 2016 01:19
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Evil Mastermind posted:I am not emptyquoting this. What's really terrible about the new one is how much worse that joke is.
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Jan 22, 2016 01:33
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Alien Rope Burn posted:A new "Cards Against Humanity, but"? Didn't they do market research? Everyone knows that Exploding Kittens is the "horrible game to copy" of the week.
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Jan 22, 2016 01:42
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quote:Our NSFW Whistleblower Expansion features cards to lampoon protected classes and sensitive PC white knights and Social Justice Warriors. I'm going to be generous here and assume that you're trying to poke fun at the types of people who would make fun of protected classes and the people who speak out in the defense of protected classes. You can't parody extremists. At least, not easily. Let's say you wanted to parody homophobes. You can make a "GOD HATES FIGS" joke by redirecting the target of hate, but that's about as much as you can do. You can't parody how extreme their views are because, as extremists, their views already are extreme. There are homophobes who honestly and truly in their hearts think that gays deserve to be tortured and killed. The Whistleblower Expansion ends up coming across as a genuine endorsement of these sorts of jokes. If that's what it actually is... Well, there's a saying in comedy that you should never "punch down". All I ask is that you do some reading on why that saying exists and give it serious reflection. demota fucked around with this message at 01:55 on Jan 22, 2016 |
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Jan 22, 2016 01:48
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Am I too late to make fun of CirclMastr's bad "another lol monkeycheese cardgame +n" kickstarter? Because "LOL."
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Jan 22, 2016 01:49
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Evil Mastermind posted:I am not emptyquoting this. Is anyone getting a real racist vibe off of this?
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Jan 22, 2016 01:49
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demota posted:Is anyone getting a real racist vibe off of this? If I'm being charitable, it looks like part of "the joke" is reversing the roles of the people from the one being poorly aped, but the draftsmanship is so bad it's hard to tell.
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Jan 22, 2016 01:52
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demota posted:You can't parody extremists Of course you can! demota posted:Is anyone getting a real racist vibe off of this? I'm getting a Ted Rall/Tim Buckley "the perspective is completely hosed" vibe, that's for sure.
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Jan 22, 2016 01:58
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DalaranJ posted:What's really terrible about the new one is how much worse that joke is. I actually got those pictures so easily because I made a big effortpost about them when the KS launched, but what it boils down to is economy of the joke. Like, the original picture is just simple. Guy with a rocket launcher pointed at a bad guy, bad guy pointing at the "Flammable" sign. Boom, done. And it's also a great "oh poo poo, now what do I do?" moment. The second one adds a bunch of labels to the canister to make sure you get it that shooting would be bad. Not that it matters, because Derpface there is about to get clubbed on the head thus resolving the whole situation. All the potential tension is lost before you even get there.
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Jan 22, 2016 02:02
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demota posted:Is anyone getting a real racist vibe off of this? It's racist as gently caress. The shadow of the shoulders alone says a lot and none of it is sane.
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Jan 22, 2016 02:02
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It definitely perpetuates the stereotype that black men have freakishly long index fingers.
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Jan 22, 2016 02:05
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Vitamin P posted:It's racist as gently caress. The shadow of the shoulders alone says a lot and none of it is sane. Can you explain this? I looked at the shadow of the shoulders for a coded message, and am probably doing it wrong.
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Jan 22, 2016 02:07
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quote:Your friends will #FeelTheBurn with our second expansion, featuring a range of cards designed to attack your friends' weaknesses for massive damage with cutting insults. Includes 64 new cards for #FML, plus another 8 blank cards so you can really make it personal. "ahhhhh yes i know what will make me PARTY GAME MILLIONS, cah but with a TRIGGERED REVERSE RACIST BETA CUCK SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRIOR WHITE KNIGHTS expansion and an Insult Your Friends Until They Aren't Your Friends Anymore expansion"
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Jan 22, 2016 02:10
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"...with a misspelled Bernie Sanders hashtag!"
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Jan 22, 2016 02:13
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A stand in for Epic/Armageddon 40k. Dunno how it plays, but it's clear GW had better hurry their specialist games to market if they want to have a prayer of catching the last, fleeting remains of their playerbase.
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Jan 22, 2016 02:32
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Evil Mastermind posted:I actually got those pictures so easily because I made a big effortpost about them when the KS launched, but what it boils down to is economy of the joke. Unless Rocketman is actually aiming at the guy about to club Derpface. With this artist's grasp on perspective, no man can say.
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Jan 22, 2016 02:44
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EverettLO posted:A stand in for Epic/Armageddon 40k. Dunno how it plays, but it's clear GW had better hurry their specialist games to market if they want to have a prayer of catching the last, fleeting remains of their playerbase. "Hey, what happened to this lunch we set aside for 15 years? Did someone eat our lunch?"
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Jan 22, 2016 02:45
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Those not-epic minis seem a bit pricy, almost if not as much as GW stuff Like, 3 stands of dudes and a tank for 12 pounds? Seems a bit outrageous for that scale of stuff
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Jan 22, 2016 02:48
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Lightning Lord posted:What's the best title for GMS at this point? Con man? Charlatan? Scammer? Fraudster? Phony? Grifter? Flim flam man? Swindler? Hustler? Bunko artist? Bamboozler? Sharpie? Mountebank? Gaffler? He's a severely depressed man who is in way too deep with no way to extricate himself, who lashes out at any advice or assistance. Far West is funny, but in a lot of ways it's very, very sad. Those titles all indicate that he had planned this, which all evidence seems to point away from. He is simply incapable, and the support he had at the time of the initial kickstarter is all but gone, leaving him alone to handle everything. He, in all likelihood, honestly believes all the release dates when he says them, only to get caught up in paralysis, anxiety, and perfectionism that causes him to miss one after another, and become unable to work at all at even the slightest inconvenience he is unable to deal with. He isn't someone who took the money and ran, he's someone catastrophically incompetent at the task before him.
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Jan 22, 2016 03:10
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Gravy Train Robber posted:He isn't someone who took the money and ran, he's someone catastrophically incompetent at the task before him. Yeah, as pissed as I am at him, I know he didn't do all this poo poo on purpose. The problem is that he seems to be the type of guy who, when offered a hand to keep him from drowning, will bat away the hand and swim deeper just to spite the person trying to help him.
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Jan 22, 2016 03:17
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demota posted:Is anyone getting a real racist vibe off of this? I think they're both equally badly drawn.
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Jan 22, 2016 05:38
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Leperflesh posted:The trouble is, the game is literally named Paranoia, because the setting recalls the paranoia of the McCarthy era. It's not called Dystopian future, because - although the future it describes is certainly dystopian - that's not the most important or core element of the game. Gameplay in Paranoia is designed to enhance the feeling of paranoia among players, as they're forced to work together but each is provided myriad motivations to try to betray the others, and simultaneously, multiple vulnerabilities to provide reasons for them to be betrayed in turn. That's...not actually true. I think Hunger Games would be a problematic mix-in for other reasons, but the revolution against the government only really comes in in book three (and the rebels are plenty untrustworthy themselves), and the two books that focus on the titular Games are absolutely about not being able to trust anyone because there's ultimately only one winner even if temporary alliances are necessary to survive early on. My concerns would more be that they're really loving grim books that would be tough to mix with the humor that's a critical part of the Paranoia equation, and I'm not sure there's much to extrapolate out of them other than elaborate bloodsports that's not already part of Paranoia's worldview.
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Jan 22, 2016 06:07
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I politely disagree. 2nd Edition Paranoia is largely a riff on 1984 with more funny bits. The Computer is the ultimate Big Brother, we have always been at war with Eurasia (the commies), you are the very thing you hunt, everything pre-Alpha Complex has been vanished down the memory hole, etc etc etc I really don't remember a real fear of computers taking peoples job entering the cultural discussion until earlier in the 90's. The mid to late 80's was dominated by the fear of Japan, Japanese cars were exploding in popularity and Japanese companies were buying large swathes of real estate in major metropolitan areas at the same time that the recession was forcing American companies to close factories. It was bad enough that there were a number of incidents of group violence against people of any Asian decent.
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Jan 22, 2016 07:57
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I think Paranoia was a product of its time and trying to "update" it is point-missing, to grog a bit. If you want to do a dystopian dark comedy RPG based on our modern fears, that would have potential. But it'd be something very different.
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Jan 22, 2016 08:04
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Captain Invictus posted:Those not-epic minis seem a bit pricy, almost if not as much as GW stuff I think the tanks are actually Flames of War sized, but there's nothing to convey that in the KS. I'm more concerned that the Early Bird gets you a lovely PDF that costs them literally nothing to give to everyone vs an exclusive group. It looks like the creators don't really get KS. But worse, there are no starter army deals. Can I make a viable army spending my pledge on X, Y, and Z? Or do I need two X for every Y and an A to unlock Z? Who knows!
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Jan 22, 2016 08:18
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