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I have only had the opportunity to hire one leper so far, and he seems perfectly fine. I'm not disagreeing with people saying he's bad, I am genuinely curious as to what makes leper's so bad. Could someone explain to a beginner?
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Jan 22, 2016 18:47
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LibbyM posted:I have only had the opportunity to hire one leper so far, and he seems perfectly fine. I'm not disagreeing with people saying he's bad, I am genuinely curious as to what makes leper's so bad. Could someone explain to a beginner? It's more like 'worse than the others' than genuinely bad. His accuracy is poo poo-tier, he can only ever hit ranks 1 and 2, and if he ever gets shoved into rank 3 or 4, he's straight up welp'd.
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Jan 22, 2016 18:49
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Leper is really good at smashing the front line while standing in the front and is unable to do much else which is usually a problem because the front row is generally two big armour lords
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Jan 22, 2016 18:53
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LibbyM posted:I have only had the opportunity to hire one leper so far, and he seems perfectly fine. I'm not disagreeing with people saying he's bad, I am genuinely curious as to what makes leper's so bad. Could someone explain to a beginner? Adding on to what Ciaphas says, he's supposed to be a low-acc, high damage powerhouse, but his damage isn't really that high and it doesn't quite work. Also the inability to hit R3 and R4 is or do anything out of position can be very limiting..
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Jan 22, 2016 18:56
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If he had some way to ignore/lower Prot he'd be one of the best front liners, but without it he's just a normal DPS class with the disadvantage of terrible target coverage and immobility.
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Jan 22, 2016 18:59
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To pick a worst party I would try and minimize damage output. I'm assuming that the party is allowed to choose an optimal marching order, so no silly stuff like front-row arbalest or back-row leper. Something like Jester/Plague Doctor/Occultist/Vestal would have a really hard time, I think. Depending on the situation you might get enough damage from bleed and blight to be viable, I'm not sure since I haven't tried too much in the way of +bleed Jester builds or +blight Pdoc builds. You might make the damage output even worse by replacing one of both of those two with other support roles like Houndmaster or Man-at-Arms. I haven't included Leper since I'm not as familiar with how unreliable his damage output actually is.
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Jan 22, 2016 19:00
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Boy I was dumb. I didn't have a good non stressed team comp, so I took a couple people at or around 100 and a couple around 60. Things went okay till the last fight. By then I was like, gently caress it I'm finishing it. They had lots of monsters capable of causing stress and critting me. I'm missing. My guys freak out and start stressing each other. I keep trying to finish the off and I miss over and over. All 4 had a heart attack one after the other Lmao
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Jan 22, 2016 19:02
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Abomination is such a fun idea. Hate that they can't be played with religious characters. Both my Vestals and Dismas died and the wagon hasn't had any of those classes for weeks. RIP.
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Jan 22, 2016 19:05
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Don't worry, I'm sure you'll eventually find their heads floating around somewhere...
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Jan 22, 2016 19:08
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Eonwe posted:By then I was like, gently caress it I'm finishing it. This is like the absolute number 1 killer of adventurers, right here.
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Jan 22, 2016 19:10
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Darkest Dungeon trip report. I took a party of Plague Doctor/Grave Robber/Houndmaster/Hellion in, using the PD and GR for blight and stuns and the HM as a dodge tank for the Hellion. I didn't learn that almost every enemy has AOE attacks until after I had already gone in, leaving me to face the boss with a Fearful PD, a Hopeless HM, and a near-death GR. I lost my PD and HM to the boss's loving insane bleed attacks. The Hellion and GR managed to scrape through the fight, each surviving multiple attacks on Death's Door. I'm going to completely cure their bad quirks and diseases for doing the impossible.
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Jan 22, 2016 19:14
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I just finished my first red boss run, taking down the Swine God -- by then I was pretty familiar with the level 1 / 3 versions of enemies, but finding out that those drat eldritch cultists have stress effect added to every skill they have was certainly unpleasant. Also I'm pretty sure Wilbur doesn't get 2 actions on the lower difficulties. Anyway, rip my Leper, and now I have 3/4ths of a veteran team for the Darkest Dungeon. The pirate boss is still the one I dread the most, just due to the ridiculous healing the boss can put out if you get unlucky with the turn order -- that and the fact that the anchorman heals itself back to full when a successful Heave To! fires is the worst. Luckily, it seems you can cheese it really hard by giving an occultist +MOVE trinkets and pulling the ship in front of the anchorman. Just...don't do this while Have To! is active.
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Jan 22, 2016 19:20
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RoboCicero posted:Also I'm pretty sure Wilbur doesn't get 2 actions on the lower difficulties.
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Jan 22, 2016 19:23
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RoboCicero posted:that and the fact that the anchorman heals itself back to full when a successful Heave To! fires is the worst. This is in fact, the worst part about the fight. It's a straight forward fight, even with the crew healing, but that drat dude going from 1-2 hp back to full can really sink your team.
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Jan 22, 2016 19:24
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MacheteZombie posted:This is in fact, the worst part about the fight. It's a straight forward fight, even with the crew healing, but that drat dude going from 1-2 hp back to full can really sink your team. That tripped me up the first time, but it's pretty easy if you don't bother trying to kill the anchorman before he Heaves To (stunning him is definitely worthwhile, though, and it's well worth investing in +stun trinkets so that you can get through his resistance consistently.)
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Jan 22, 2016 19:26
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MacheteZombie posted:If he had some way to ignore/lower Prot he'd be one of the best front liners, but without it he's just a normal DPS class with the disadvantage of terrible target coverage and immobility.
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Jan 22, 2016 19:34
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All the leper talk made sense, thanks guys.
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Jan 22, 2016 19:40
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I'm thinking about how to fix the Leper. How do people think Hew proccing a PROT/Dodge debuff and Chop proccing a big blight/bleed/stun/debuff/movechance debuff would work out?
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Jan 22, 2016 19:42
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Night10194 posted:This is like the absolute number 1 killer of adventurers, right here. yea
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Jan 22, 2016 19:44
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The other option would be to play up the juggernaut theme and give one or both of his main attacks a recovery or self-buff rider.
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Jan 22, 2016 19:44
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The Leper's problem isn't that he isn't strong enough in the frontline, it's that he has absolutely no options other than plodding back to the front if he gets knocked back or if the party gets shuffled. I'd suggest giving Withstand or Revenge a move effect in addition to their regular buffs, but only make them usable from the backline.
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Jan 22, 2016 19:46
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Revenge is legit terrible. I really only use Chop, Intimidate, Solemnity, and Withstand, playing him like a cheap debuff tank chump. Intimidate. Withstand, then start chopping for big enemies works ok.
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Jan 22, 2016 19:50
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Glidergun posted:I'm thinking about how to fix the Leper. How do people think Hew proccing a PROT/Dodge debuff and Chop proccing a big blight/bleed/stun/debuff/movechance debuff would work out? Tyrone Biggums posted:The Leper's problem isn't that he isn't strong enough in the frontline, it's that he has absolutely no options other than plodding back to the front if he gets knocked back or if the party gets shuffled. I'd suggest giving Withstand or Revenge a move effect in addition to their regular buffs, but only make them usable from the backline.
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Jan 22, 2016 19:58
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Doctor Schnabel posted:I gave him a stacking -10% Prot debuff on Hew and Chop, and move 1 on Intimidate, usable only from the back 2 ranks. I find that works ok, since he's still got no stuns and no way to hit ranks 3 and 4. I should probably weaken Intimidate a bit to compensate, honestly This was the kind of thing I was thinking would be best on him. I'd be even more restrictive probably and just have the Prot debuff on Chop (that's the single target one right?).
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Jan 22, 2016 20:00
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Glidergun posted:I'm thinking about how to fix the Leper. How do people think Hew proccing a PROT/Dodge debuff and Chop proccing a big blight/bleed/stun/debuff/movechance debuff would work out? I don't think Chop needs anything, it's fine as is.
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Jan 22, 2016 20:01
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MacheteZombie posted:This was the kind of thing I was thinking would be best on him. I'd be even more restrictive probably and just have the Prot debuff on Chop (that's the single target one right?).
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Jan 22, 2016 20:01
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MacheteZombie posted:This was the kind of thing I was thinking would be best on him. I'd be even more restrictive probably and just have the Prot debuff on Chop (that's the single target one right?). -prot on a full damage power is actually more unbalanced than -prot on a 2-hit aoe imo
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Jan 22, 2016 20:04
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Glidergun posted:I'm thinking about how to fix the Leper. How do people think Hew proccing a PROT/Dodge debuff and Chop proccing a big blight/bleed/stun/debuff/movechance debuff would work out? bless him
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Jan 22, 2016 20:05
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Arbalest is pretty good as a backup healer but I've also been enjoying her as a brutal damage dealer with the wrathful bandanna. She crits surprisingly often for big numbers. The heal reduction can really bite you in the rear end if she gets ganged up on though. I tried to solve that with a guard unit but every time I use guard, all the enemies just ignore the units using it and gang up on whoever is unprotected instead. I'm not sure if level 5 AI is designed to do that or my luck is just atrocious. I'm not sure how valuable her suppressing fire debuff is though. Even when I tried to stack it, enemies were still perfectly accurate. I thought she would do great in darkest dungeon 3 with that setup but no everything there has super high accuracy so it was a waste. Glidergun posted:I'm thinking about how to fix the Leper. How do people think Hew proccing a PROT/Dodge debuff and Chop proccing a big blight/bleed/stun/debuff/movechance debuff would work out? If they insist on forcing the leper too be only usable in rank 1-2, I think he needs two things; a way to deal with prot and a better move skill. High protection enemies in rank 1 severely diminish his damage output so he really needs some way too smash them down. A movement skill would be really useful too him by allowing him to screw up formations. He actually does have a movement skill, but its worthless since the chance is very low and I never found a trinket to make it reliable. The MaA rampart skill is basically what the Leper should have. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Jan 22, 2016 |
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Jan 22, 2016 20:06
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Soothing Vapors posted:-prot on a full damage power is actually more unbalanced than -prot on a 2-hit aoe imo Internet Kraken posted:I'm not sure how valuable her suppressing fire debuff is though. Even when I tried to stack it, enemies were still perfectly accurate. I thought she would do great in darkest dungeon 3 with that setup but no everything there has super high accuracy so it was a waste. Soup du Journey fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Jan 22, 2016 |
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Jan 22, 2016 20:07
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So, widespread support for -PROT on Hew, but still has mobility problems. I think I'd put Forward 1 on Revenge just to make it useful.
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Jan 22, 2016 20:11
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What if instead of Chop giving a -PROT debuff, it gives him a +Damage buff on himself, but only for Chop, kind of like the Abomination's +Damage But Only For Rake skill? It would emphasize his role as the big non-team player guy who just beats down the front row enemy over and over, and it would incentivize consecutive attacks and make it harder to decide whether to stop the attack buff chain in order to heal.
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Jan 22, 2016 20:19
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I guess the leper doesn't bother me as much as it does for some of you, jester as well. Who cares if the party is min/max MLG pro #1 best party. gently caress a party of Occultist/Jester/Leper/Leper can probably clear the entire game and hewing' the poo poo out of people 2x a turn with accuracy/damage camp buffs is a boatload of fun. (yes, I have played the game up to level 6 heroes, and yes I have done so with the leaper) I honestly feel a ton of people in this thread are way too quick to dismiss things that might not be 100% optimal as "useless" and I guess it just kinda makes me wonder how these people play any game with a ton of choice. Do you research and min/max every single game on the internet before making a choice? Do you just accept the reddit consensus and go with that? To each their own I guess but drat does that seem like depriving yourself of the fun of discovery and skipping directly to the jaded phase of playing a game.
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Jan 22, 2016 20:32
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Night10194 posted:This is like the absolute number 1 killer of adventurers, right here. I know it's approaching meme material but when the ancestor says that overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer he is not loving joking
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Jan 22, 2016 20:32
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Wow, Man At Arms's ability to boost everyone's dodge should not be underestimated. Using it liberally on a high-agility party (the other main damage dealer was a Graverobber) had everyone dodging out of the way of enemy blanket fire attacks constantly. Very handy.
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Jan 22, 2016 20:34
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fargom posted:I guess the leper doesn't bother me as much as it does for some of you, jester as well. Who cares if the party is min/max MLG pro #1 best party. gently caress a party of Occultist/Jester/Leper/Leper can probably clear the entire game and hewing' the poo poo out of people 2x a turn with accuracy/damage camp buffs is a boatload of fun. (yes, I have played the game up to level 6 heroes, and yes I have done so with the leaper)
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Jan 22, 2016 20:41
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It drives me batty when games don't have a "mute while in the background" option. Is there a way to make DD do that?
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Jan 22, 2016 20:53
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Doctor Schnabel posted:[...] i mean, why would i, when there's a finite amount of room in the barracks and a dozen other, better classes that are vying for space? I guess my answer to this would be "Since taking the jester or leper on adventures is not going to significantly reduce my chances of winning and having fun with the game, and because I think the jester and or leaper are loving rad I will take them and smash monsters with them." I too have been playing a ton of this game, and if someone asked me what the worst class is I would have to get more information before answering. For what area? For what boss fight? Hell even if I was trying to min/max to a sperg level, I would say the jester actually IS part of the most powerful party, which imo is Jester/Occ/Abom/Abom.
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Jan 22, 2016 20:54
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Speedball posted:Wow, Man At Arms's ability to boost everyone's dodge should not be underestimated. Using it liberally on a high-agility party (the other main damage dealer was a Graverobber) had everyone dodging out of the way of enemy blanket fire attacks constantly. Very handy. poo poo, combine that with like... a houndmaster (with guard) and maybe a hellion (hellions have high dodge right?), that sounds like an interesting run.
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Jan 22, 2016 21:00
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fargom posted:I guess the leper doesn't bother me as much as it does for some of you, jester as well. Who cares if the party is min/max MLG pro #1 best party. gently caress a party of Occultist/Jester/Leper/Leper can probably clear the entire game and hewing' the poo poo out of people 2x a turn with accuracy/damage camp buffs is a boatload of fun. (yes, I have played the game up to level 6 heroes, and yes I have done so with the leaper) I don't think anybody is saying the leper is useless (though I havn't reread posts to doublecheck), but rather that he's not quite as good as the other characters. This sticks out, to me, because the rest of the game is so very deliberately designed. I mean when we look at other things people complain about, corpses, level requirements, no fail state, it's really clear to me exactly why it works that way, and how they push the player to experience the game in a way that maximizes the emotional payoffs the designers are going for. In comparison, the fact that some party members are just more useful than others seems weird. It's like a missing tooth you keep poking at with your tongue. That being said, the "worst party" chat revealed to me that there are a lot of weird synergies that can make just about anything work, but the synergy with the leper always seems to be that he gets screwed a little bit less by getting knocked out of position.
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Jan 22, 2016 21:01
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