|
A staunch civil rights era progressive of the Guthrie mold who was born before V-E day makes a series of fun adventure movie tributes to his childhood love of serials and it inspires its most passionate fans to do stuff like this for 15 years: I could actually see Lucas deliberately crafting and framing elements of his personally-controlled sequel series specifically to both disappoint and confuse the fascist-for-comicon crowd, like deliberately not manufacturing any clone costume bits that would serve as the 'official' pattern for cosplay getups.
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 18:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 16:55 |
|
|
You really have a hate-on for people who enjoy things like Star Wars and anime. You must be so cool in real life.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 18:54
|
|
|
Oh no, we can't tolerate hating anime.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 18:54
|
|
|
computer parts posted:Oh no, we can't tolerate hating anime. Not that I watch anime but the weak, tired and lazy insult "OMG ANIME LOVERS" is boring. Please come up with something better. Also, "Yo Qui-Gon and darth maul had the realest beef ever no words that poo poo was just on sight, that nigga ghost ride his bike into a mountain and started throwing down"
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 18:56
|
|
|
turtlecrunch posted:Why is his crotch bleeping I'd be more concerned if Creepio didn't have a bleeping crotch. quote:This is a show that had droids on speeders using lances like mounted cavalry to destroy AT-TEs People using medieval weapons in a futuristic setting?!? Didn't he know he was writing Star Wars?!?
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 18:58
|
|
|
Vintersorg posted:It's a problem with the prequels - all the villains are poo poo. And without a good villain things fall apart. It's almost as if villains' ability to fight Jedi isn't meant to be what brings about the Jedi's downfall
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 19:00
|
|
|
Vintersorg posted:Your posts are impossible to read by the way, please space them out. Rey was untrained in the Force and using a lightsaber, and even if Ren's training isn't complete, we know he's been trained by both Snoke and Luke and uses powers we've never seen any Jedi or Sith use before. He still gets beaten pretty handily by someone who only just awakened to the strength in the Force, like, a day ago. Don't get me wrong, I like Kylo, but my point is Grievous' situation has extenuating circumstances as well. He's a an almost entirely robotic cyborg whose combat style includes training with a lightsaber, but the Force is not with him. He's going up against one of the greatest Jedi of his age who, again, has experience with Grievous in his backstory. So Obi-Wan managing to take out two of Grievous' limbs and throwing him down a huge drop, while Grievous suddenly doesn't outnumber the Jedi with his droids, provoking Grievous to run away, doesn't seem any less justified than Kylo getting beaten does. Grievous is still way more of a physical threat than someone like Hux or Tarkin or Piett is. If we can have characters in the original trilogy and TFA who aren't really physically threatening, I fail to see how a character who is more threatening than those guys but whose primary purpose remains commanding an army is a "bad" villain.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 19:00
|
|
|
In the Clone Wars series the Mandalorian group, "Death Watch" have some ancient lightsaber that is a literal sword with energy around it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 19:00
|
|
|
I don't read every post in this thread but did people generally like TFA? I know SMG and Cnut hated it but what's the general consensus here?
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 19:03
|
|
|
Y Kant Ozma Diet posted:I don't read every post in this thread but did people generally like TFA? I know SMG and Cnut hated it but what's the general consensus here? Opinions range from "Pretty good" to "Really good." It has united the tribes. The prequels are all we have left to fight about, now.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 19:04
|
|
|
Vintersorg posted:You keep trotting this out as if you're better than people who watch that. It's lazy insults from a loser. I am better than the people whose conceptions of coolness boil down to "Does he seem like the bad boy in school who's always leaning against the wall and rolling his eyes at everything?" I see that among anime fans a lot as an example of what makes a character "dark and mature", and so I used that as a reference point. Considering most of your posts in this thread that I've observed have been meltdowns at the prospect that people don't hate what you hate, you're in no place to be calling anyone else a loser.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 19:07
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:People using medieval weapons in a futuristic setting?!? Didn't he know he was writing Star Wars?!? That wasn't what I meant, but yes, the fact that lances exist in Star Wars, even though that wasn't the bit that I was saying was over the top, completely disproves my point! You guys got me!
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 19:10
|
|
|
Oh god "meltdowns". Anything else from the goon repertoire of insults?
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 19:12
|
|
|
Y Kant Ozma Diet posted:I don't read every post in this thread but did people generally like TFA? I know SMG and Cnut hated it but what's the general consensus here? It's the first Star Wars film to be considered without its trilogy companions since no one in this thread was on SA in 1977 or 1999, which is sort of weird. I don't know what the first Star Wars or PT thread was on SA but I imagine it was intelligent and civil and I don't think anyone could hate the new movie besides the aforementioned and MrBibs, but then there was that 5 hour youtube video that I didn't watch. turtlecrunch fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Jan 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 19:12
|
|
|
The 2D Clone Wars series was pretty cool, but people who don't like the prequels and want them to be more like flashy spectacle-filled characterization-free cartoons confuse me.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 19:12
|
|
|
Vintersorg posted:Oh god "meltdowns". Anything else from the goon repertoire of insults? I don't even get involved in the general goon culture so I don't know what the kids these days talk about, can you give me a list of things I'm not allowed to say because they might sound like something you've seen goons say?
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 19:14
|
|
|
Y Kant Ozma Diet posted:I don't read every post in this thread but did people generally like TFA? I know SMG and Cnut hated it but what's the general consensus here? The Death Star part is controversial, but other than that it kind of ranges.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 19:14
|
|
|
The films satirize fan power-worship and lightsaber fetishism by showing that a character who wields four(!) lightsabers, while wearing a skull mask, is still merely human. Grievous has all the trappings of a 'badass' - all the merchandise - and, yet, he is not. This is tied in with the motif of 'holy' lightsabers being mass-produced thrown away, destroyed, traded, etc. Also: the reveal that the psychic powers are not signs of worthiness, but merely a random genetic mutation. Also: everything else in the films. The prequels are not bad movies; they are good movies that are making fun of you.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 19:15
|
|
|
Y Kant Ozma Diet posted:I don't read every post in this thread but did people generally like TFA? I know SMG and Cnut hated it but what's the general consensus here? It was pretty good. The first thirty minutes or so, where we were introduced to all of our next-generation characters, were downright magical. It did a really good job exploring the themes of legacy and inheritance. The film's biggest weakness was that it abandoned the plot thread about finding Luke Skywalker to do a big Death Star battle, then remembered Luke right at the very end. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with doing Death Star III, but Starkiller Base doesn't drive the narrative the way the other two Death Stars did, so it feels unsatisfying; I get the impression that the writers didn't believe their own story was strong enough. My other main complaint is that the different locations in the new film weren't very distinctive. Jakku is fine and I don't mind that it's a version of Tatooine (especially if Rey is indeed Luke's daughter), but why are Takodana and D'Qar so similar?
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 19:19
|
|
|
Beeez posted:I'm not going to restart this whole "Is Kylo Ren threatening?" thing, but throwing a tantrum and destroying a console when you're in a bad situation isn't as cool as shattering the glass in your spaceship and flying out into the vacuum of space. The whole point, again, is that the way new characters are portrayed can be done in any number of ways, and considering all the "Emo Kylo Ren" memes, the idea that Kylo Ren is this big, threatening badass is hardly unanimous. The problem here is that you are equating "threatening" with "badass", when in reality what is being suggested is that the villains were simultaneously not three dimensional characterizations -and- aren't threatening, resulting in characters they felt were impactless and unmemorable outside of their base designs. In belittling those you disagree with you have missed an important lesson; just like clones, droids, bugs, and lizard robots, people who don't like the PT are people too. And hold far more nuanced views and opinions than what fits easily into your worldview. The path of least resistance is rarely the right one. It's easy to dismiss PT complaints being "not badass and dark enough!", then move to a new thread and dismiss Man of Steel complaints as "not lighthearted and fun enough!" then move to a new thread and dismiss Transformers complaints as "too indistinguishable and confusing!". You've played Devils Advocate for so long that you've convinced yourself that the mortal plebes are the devils. Beeez posted:That wasn't what I meant, but yes, the fact that lances exist in Star Wars, even though that wasn't the bit that I was saying was over the top, completely disproves my point! You guys got me! The point is that droids using lances to take down tall robot animals is not over the top, and in fact completely in-line with the style and impracticality of Star Wars, Setting Where Pilots Wrap Bungie Chords Around Metal Cows And Poke Things With Glowsticks.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 19:25
|
|
|
This is great, though. Listen to him shout "Stay at your stations!" while running away. Then he dives out a window to escape, like Hitler in Danger 5.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 19:30
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:The problem here is that you are equating "threatening" with "badass", when in reality what is being suggested is that the villains were simultaneously not three dimensional characterizations -and- aren't threatening, resulting in characters they felt were impactless and unmemorable outside of their base designs. In belittling those you disagree with you have missed an important lesson; just like clones, droids, bugs, and lizard robots, people who don't like the PT are people too. And hold far more nuanced views and opinions than what fits easily into your worldview. The path of least resistance is rarely the right one. It's ironic you say this, even partially facetiously, when you're assuming that I'm just like SMG because we both have argued points about the prequels. I've never even Man of Steel and I've only seen the first Transformers movie, and never discussed it on any online forums. I'm mentioning the point about "dark, mature, and badass" because it's a really common criticism, more generally linked to the idea that completely new characters have to be a certain way, which is what the main point of the Grievous discussion has been about since the beginning. I can actually sympathize more with the Man of Steel haters because Superman is, at least, an established character who has existed for over 75 years, so there are some obligations a creator has in adapting him to any medium, even if there's wiggle room within that. quote:The point is that droids using lances to take down tall robot animals is not over the top, and in fact completely in-line with the style and impracticality of Star Wars, Setting Where Pilots Wrap Bungie Chords Around Metal Cows And Poke Things With Glowsticks. Nah, there's a difference between those two examples. What makes the Tartakovsky series more over the top is those droids have little chickenbone arms and are riding on speeder bikes that go up like a pinto pretty easily, and they're toppling machines that must weigh literal tons. There are different types of over the top, considering you guys frequently complain about the prequels because they jump around a little more and twirl their lightsabers a bit more, you obviously are aware of the idea that even between forms of over the top action there are differences and incongruities. Unless you think it would've been fine to see Obi-Wan fly around like Superman in the prequels because Vader sort of glides at Luke in ESB.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 19:39
|
|
|
Greivous jumping out the window is cool, even if he didn't immediately pull out 4 lightsabers and kill obi wan and anakin and ended star wars right then and there.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 19:39
|
|
|
After Force Awakens was released, I questioned fans on what made the Resistance characters good. The uniform response is that they are likeable and against fascism. Also, TR8R is a badass. Anything else is unimportant: "droids aren't people, and what's wrong with being a feudal serf?" When you apply this fan triad of likeable-badass-(anti)fascist to a given character or film, things begin to make sense. Luke is a likeable antifascist. Leia is a badass antifascist. Han is a likeable badass. Vader is (commonly interpreted as) a badass fascist. Fans expected a 'likeable' character who becomes a fascist badass, but Anakin was not likeable or badass. Fans still have enormous difficulty with this. Grievous is not any of those three. Jar Jar is not any of those three. The consequence is complete mental shutdown.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 19:55
|
|
|
I wonder how many people would prefer Anakin to basically be the main character from Starship Troopers. Like let's actually look at the "better" form of Anakin that's been referenced: - Anakin is a young adult to start, already in school/Jedi Training - The Clone Wars begin late in the first/early in the second movie so more time is spent for warfare - Anakin's supposed to do a whole bunch of cool combat stuff and have a forbidden love story Really the only main difference would be that Anakin "turns bad" and kills his allies at the end. computer parts fucked around with this message at 20:47 on Jan 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 19:59
|
|
|
Tezzor posted:Bad, inconsistent writing, not 11th-dimensional chess Oh, okay. You're not worth talking to, Tezzor. Y Kant Ozma Diet posted:I don't read every post in this thread but did people generally like TFA? I know SMG and Cnut hated it but what's the general consensus here? I didn't hate it.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 19:59
|
|
|
Cnut the Great posted:I didn't hate it. I didn't hate Episode 7 either. I think it is pretty decent.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 20:06
|
|
|
Beeez posted:It's ironic you say this, even partially facetiously, when you're assuming that I'm just like SMG because we both have argued points about the prequels. I've never even Man of Steel and I've only seen the first Transformers movie, and never discussed it on any online forums. I'm mentioning the point about "dark, mature, and badass" because it's a really common criticism, more generally linked to the idea that completely new characters have to be a certain way, which is what the main point of the Grievous discussion has been about since the beginning. I can actually sympathize more with the Man of Steel haters because Superman is, at least, an established character who has existed for over 75 years, so there are some obligations a creator has in adapting him to any medium, even if there's wiggle room within that. I never assumed that you talk about those other movies, nor do I consider you similar to SMG. My point was that your post is just one in a number of mistaken assumptions by multiple posters, and plead that you not follow the same path. In future posts I will make clear that I am not talking about you with the annotation [notbeez]. I've never heard the suggestion that the Prequels needed to be more dark and badass; in fact the most prominent critique of ROTS, Redlettermedia's critique, immediately tackles that assumption first as an argument in favor of the film. I haven't heard this criticism commonly in the context of new characters in the film, either; I've heard complaints that Maul didn't get enough screentime, complaints about the absurdism of Dooku's fight with Yoda and mismanagement (in their opinion) of Christopher Lee's talents, and criticism regarding Grievous' position as a threatening villain or interesting/entertaining character. I've yet to hear a suggestion that all the PT characters "weren't badass enough". quote:Nah, there's a difference between those two examples. What makes the Tartakovsky series more over the top is those droids have little chickenbone arms and are riding on speeder bikes that go up like a pinto pretty easily, and they're toppling machines that must weigh literal tons. There are different types of over the top, considering you guys frequently complain about the prequels because they jump around a little more and twirl their lightsabers a bit more, you obviously are aware of the idea that even between forms of over the top action there are differences and incongruities. Unless you think it would've been fine to see Obi-Wan fly around like Superman in the prequels because Vader sort of glides at Luke in ESB. so your complaint is that the droids' designs aren't realist enough, when we are discussing a setting where tiny old men lift spaceships and swords meet no resistance against metal. Okay. If your argument requires dismissing Tartakovsky, then I'd recommend reconsidering how little credit you give a stance. Or at least understand that you will find little sympathy on this front. The arguments about PT fights aren't about the concept of lightsaber wire-fu. The arguments pertain to the existence of characterization and consequence. This is why the same complaints are applied to the Grievous/Obi fight.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 20:36
|
|
|
TFA was a fairly disposable JJ Abrams movie, not dissimilar to...everything else he's done. There wasn't a whole lot going on cinematically or narratively that really captured my interest. Most of the discussion I've seen has been about whether people liked or disliked certain characters, which tends to be a really boring topic of discussion.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 20:37
|
|
|
SuperMechagodzilla posted:After Force Awakens was released, I questioned fans on what made the Resistance characters good. The uniform response is that they are likeable and against fascism. Also, TR8R is a badass. Anything else is unimportant: "droids aren't people, and what's wrong with being a feudal serf?" It is quite interesting to see posts like these when you realize who he is channeling. Zizek found significant critics for the gall of considering "worthless prole trash culture" as works of art capable of holding statements and nuance. His reading of Rammestein is most infamous for this. He saw commoner art and saw quality and the ability to convey and translate complex ideals to those unskilled in philosophy. It is deeply ironic, in the context Zizek's mentality of "the commoner holds intelligence and can read" that the twilight year of SMG's posting 'career', where he finds few willing to engage him with easily mocked "this guy makes no sense and I support face value! " posts, resorts to invoking Zizek to create his own assertion; that the commoner holds no intelligence, and cannot read. I suspect he knows this hinself, and may be doing it as a cynical jape; unhappy with his stagnating followers he chooses to contradict he who he finds most worthy of emulation, to witness wether or not his followers are capable of blossoming into individuals capable of disagreement. This is, of course, only my personal reading of SMG, and I understand that you may disagree. It is metely my personal method of extracting meaning and enjoyment from this post.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 20:46
|
|
|
Nobody has actually provided any evidence that George Lucas intentionally made all the prequel villains lame chumps to make a very deep point in the magic knight movie series that has a cartoon rabbit in it who smells a fart and says icky icky poo, right? Like a line from an interview that came out prior to the movies, or an explanation in a script? That's too bad. I really wish that were true since that is such a terrible idea it's incredible. This is why having collaborators who you listen to is helpful. "So guys I had an idea: in this action drama film, let's make all the antagonists totally ridiculous." "No, George."
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 20:51
|
|
|
Why is intent so important? Do you have some sort of personal investment in proving Lucas is a poopy head?
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 20:53
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:It is quite interesting to see posts like these when you realize who he is channeling. Are you and Tezzor having a contest on who can make the worst, most self-absorbed post in this thread or something? Because Jesus Christ ...
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 20:53
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:It is quite interesting to see posts like these when you realize who he is channeling. Jesus Christ.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 20:54
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:I never assumed that you talk about those other movies, nor do I consider you similar to SMG. My point was that your post is just one in a number of mistaken assumptions by multiple posters, and plead that you not follow the same path. In future posts I will make clear that I am not talking about you with the annotation [notbeez]. I've seen it a lot, and the statement of "X character should have been like this" is in that same vein, really. Some of the people in this very thread quibble over that, be it over the prequels or Kylo Ren, so I don't know how you could possibly argue there aren't a lot of criticisms that are based around the idea that a totally new character should be a certain way. quote:so your complaint is that the droids' designs aren't realist enough, when we are discussing a setting where tiny old men lift spaceships and swords meet no resistance against metal. Okay. If your argument requires dismissing Tartakovsky, then I'd recommend reconsidering how little credit you give a stance. Or at least understand that you will find little sympathy on this front. No, I'm not making a complaint in the first place as I like that series, I'm simply saying there are many examples of the Tartakovsky show being even more over the top and slavishly devoted to cartoon badassery than any of the movies are, so the expectation that Grievous has to be fighting with his feet and taking on, like, twenty Jedi in RotS is flawed. I'm pretty sure you know this, which is why you cherry picked this example while dismissing the other example I used of it being more over the top, as well as the main point. And once again, there are people in this very thread who complain about the "spinning and twirling crazily." So it's less that I'm making mistaken assumptions, and more that I'm referring to criticism I've seen to which you don't personally ascribe, so you claim I've fabricated it. Beeez fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Jan 23, 2016 |
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 20:57
|
|
|
Lt. Danger posted:Jesus Christ. Phillistine Nothing cannot be read. Embrace Reading.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 21:00
|
|
|
Mechafunkzilla posted:TFA was a fairly disposable JJ Abrams movie, not dissimilar to...everything else he's done. There wasn't a whole lot going on cinematically or narratively that really captured my interest. Most of the discussion I've seen has been about whether people liked or disliked certain characters, which tends to be a really boring topic of discussion. For example, I liked pretty much all the characters. I'd love to chill and have a beer with Finn. But I'd rather watch a movie about someone else. Like, someone who actually acts like a trained killer who's been brainwashed from birth by fascists and only just recently became able to open his mind to another way of thinking. The Clone Wars did something similar with the clones, and they still managed to be interesting, funny, sympathetic, human characters, despite having obvious psychological abnormalities related to their upbringing. But TFA didn't want to show me anything like this, because then I might not want to chill and have a beer with Finn, which means the movie wouldn't have as much broad appeal, and might have invited a more mixed response--as opposed to the response it actually got, which consisted of near-universal proclamations of "It could have been better, but it also could have been worse! Two thumbs up!"
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 21:03
|
|
|
Neurolimal posted:It is quite interesting to see posts like these when you realize who he is channeling. Yeah, popular opinion on these movies tends to run the range from "not very good" to "an abomination" but actually we're smarter than them because we see hidden things the common folk do not. Also, as with almost every other Zizek emulator I've seen, he also misses the sense of humor he brings; he's always peppering everything he says with jokes and punchlines. I can definitely understand why an analysis centered around pop-culture flotsam would be so superficially attractive to people whose sole experience appears to be in pop-culture flotsam.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 21:04
|
|
|
Cnut the Great posted:-as opposed to the response it actually got, which consisted of near-universal proclamations of "It could have been better, but it also could have been worse! Two thumbs up!" I've only seen this opinion in this thread on this website.
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 21:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 16:55 |
|
|
Neurolimal posted:the twilight year of SMG's posting 'career' what makes you so sure that this is the end of SMG
|
|
#
?
Jan 23, 2016 21:06
|
|
