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RoboChrist 9000 posted:You're probably right and it is may well be something he did, but I really feel like we should wait for some sort of evidence of personal misconduct before blaming the victim. I looked over his public profile on Fbook when the news broke because I assumed he'd be some sort of ultra-Christian as they are the primary people who seem to get arrested these days. However he appears to be a normal, fun-having, well educated college student without an axe to grind for religion, politics, or other ideology. Will be interested to see what exactly got him arrested. It was while he was leaving the country for what it's worth.
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Jan 22, 2016 21:30
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It doesn't deserve to get you imprisoned and I hope he makes it out unharmed, but you have to be a bit of a shithead to go on one of those tours in the first place, they directly support the regime. He's been reported as being a business major too? So not even studying anything related to the place. I can't say I have too much sympathy for the guy.
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Jan 22, 2016 21:41
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Yeah, you should know the risks when you go joyriding in a shitheap. Hope the North doesn't get anything out of this.
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Jan 22, 2016 21:56
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Halloween Jack posted:Huh. Classes are canceled and the University is practically closed today, but I'm surprised President Sullivan hasn't already sent out an email about this. Why? Is that a funny or annoying thing he does? If someone had been arrested by North Korea while a student at the school I went to I wouldn't have expected an e-mail from the president. RoboChrist 9000 posted:You're probably right and it is may well be something he did, but I really feel like we should wait for some sort of evidence of personal misconduct before blaming the victim. I disagree, based on past cases its more than likely that he did something. And while I'm in no way saying that North Korea's laws are just, they are laws and its not him being a victim if he voluntarily goes there and breaks them. edit: Remember, the Bible guy was arrested while leaving the country too, even though they confronted him about the Bible a day or two previously. Its possible he did something while on the trip and was allowed to continue while the people in charge of that sort of thing decided what to do. We might find out once his fellow visitors start speaking, or until the North says something, or perhaps we'll have to wait until he inevitably gets released.
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Jan 23, 2016 01:20
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Cliff Racer posted:Why? Is that a funny or annoying thing he does? If someone had been arrested by North Korea while a student at the school I went to I wouldn't have expected an e-mail from the president. You're clearly too old to get the university/school system in tyool 2016, in which every student is simultaneously a customer, under constant suspicion, and mandated to be as close to every other student as a family member 
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Jan 23, 2016 01:58
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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My guess would be that the guy did something to piss off the NK so they grabbed him. Not that that would be sufficient justification by most measures, but it's NK so this should be expected.WarpedNaba posted:Yeah, you should know the risks when you go joyriding in a shitheap. Hope the North doesn't get anything out of this. Let's go a step further and say that the tour companies should provide all their clients with a cyanide pill, to be deployed in case of capture.
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Jan 23, 2016 02:07
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Cliff Racer posted:Why? Is that a funny or annoying thing he does? If someone had been arrested by North Korea while a student at the school I went to I wouldn't have expected an e-mail from the president. DeathSandwich posted:From what I can gather based on interviews I've seen of people who have been there: The really aren't given that much leeway. Generally a tour group will take any cell phones or GPS devices you have when entering the country. The tours are guided in a very heavy-handed manner, you see what they want you to see and they get mad if you try to go off the beaten path, off message, or generally be a pest. Cliff Racer posted:I disagree, based on past cases its more than likely that he did something. And while I'm in no way saying that North Korea's laws are just, they are laws and its not him being a victim if he voluntarily goes there and breaks them. DeathSandwich posted:That being said, I can see several scenarios being true: I see some of the news blurbs about him mention that he's an "intellectual risk-taker," but they're only saying that because he's part of the Echols Scholar program, which has "intellectual risk-taker" as part of their mission statement. So I'm not jumping to the conclusion that he was a missionary or some other sort of naive activist. Since there's no information available besides the standard DPRK propaganda that he must have been a secret agent for the federal government  , I can only give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he did something innocuous if he did anything at all. Given the capriciousness of the Jong-un regime, I wouldn't be surprised if he's being used as a bargaining chip on a very flimsy pretext.
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Jan 23, 2016 02:37
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sincx fucked around with this message at 06:32 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Jan 23, 2016 06:22
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sincx posted:Why would you ever go on a trip to North Korea as an American citizen in this geopolitical environment? You are being a fool and cheating yourself out of a pretty cool vacation. As to people who go? Its people who specifically go because they do want to do stuff that other people don't. Honestly, provided that they follow ALL the rules, they probably have more to fear from internal regime collapse happening while they are there than they do being arrested "just because."
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Jan 23, 2016 06:33
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Cliff Racer posted:As to people who go? Its people who specifically go because they do want to do stuff that other people don't. Y'know, seeing as they help directly fund the Kim regime for an extra squeak of hipster cred, I think I want them to get the dissenter treatment while they're over there. I'm normally a pretty tame guy, but thinking about those people doing this and not giving a single poo poo about the horrors they're contributing to makes them less than human. It has to, or nothing will.
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Jan 23, 2016 09:03
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WarpedNaba posted:Y'know, seeing as they help directly fund the Kim regime for an extra squeak of hipster cred, I think I want them to get the dissenter treatment while they're over there. Yeah, there's millions a victims here and this guy isn't one of them. Multiple people are abducted by the regime per year for bargaining position, so not only are you funneling currency to support the regime but you are submitting yourself as a pawn to get millions of dollars in concession that will continue to fund modern day concentration camps etc. This is why the storyline of 'wow north korea best korea so wacky 18 hole in ones' is so poo poo because it encourages these idiots.
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Jan 23, 2016 16:36
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I wouldn't wish being detained by North Korea on anybody. He'll be treated well and likely released, but that is some scary poo poo.
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Jan 23, 2016 17:47
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Cliff Racer posted:You are being a fool and cheating yourself out of a pretty cool vacation. There are a lot of interesting places to visit in the world for cheaper that don't involve directly funding the North Korean regime and taking a literal propaganda tour. Like, the reasons to actually do this thing boil down to: 1) You want hipster cred "I was totally in NORTH KOREA guys!!!!" 2) You drink the kool-aid "It wasn't so bad guys!! Everyone is super happy and there is so much food! Obummer is just lying to you about poor Best Korea!" 3) You went to gawk at poor people. Plus, you know, you might end up arrested as a spy if they feel like it. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 18:29 on Jan 23, 2016 |
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Jan 23, 2016 17:49
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:You're probably right and it is may well be something he did, but I really feel like we should wait for some sort of evidence of personal misconduct before blaming the victim. I am having a hard time having huge amounts of sympathy for people who go to a state known for taking prisoners for bargaining chips so they could have a unique vacation. He may not deserve this, but all of these idiots going there should know they are taking their chances.
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Jan 23, 2016 18:29
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I still can't believe all the crap the VICE guy pulled off. At least he wasn't dumb enough to ask a Korean Citizen point blank if they had any criticisms of the Kim family in front of a camera like Lisa Ling did.
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Jan 23, 2016 19:15
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I hope you guys also feel bad about paying taxes, buying iPhones, drinking coke, and wearing Nike.
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Jan 23, 2016 19:20
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old dog child posted:I hope you guys also feel bad about paying taxes, buying iPhones, drinking coke, and wearing Nike. How clever, I mean paying taxes is totally the same thing as taking a hipster cred vacation to North Korea.
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Jan 23, 2016 19:22
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unlawfulsoup posted:How clever, I mean paying taxes is totally the same thing as taking a hipster cred vacation to North Korea. "Hey Joe Arapio, I'll pay $5000 for a guided tour of your best local communities!" Except the guy you pay is running an oppressive international pariah state with actual death camps and nuclear weapons rather than a small time sheriff with irresponsibly run jails and a deactivated artillery vehicle. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Jan 23, 2016 |
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Jan 23, 2016 19:31
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unlawfulsoup posted:How clever, I mean paying taxes is totally the same thing as taking a hipster cred vacation to North Korea. You're supporting a government that bombs weddings and detains people without trial. Anyway, there's value in visiting a place like North Korea, in the same way interviewing an evil person isn't a hosed up thing to do. Nobody knows why that guy went to NK. If he was detained, then he probably wasn't there to brag about it to his friends*. It's just hosed up to place the blame on the victim when no one knows motive. Also, more westerners should visit NK while being subversive because any cultural contamination is a good thing. Hell, anything he does to undermine the regime while there (if he is guilty) helps the US in the end. Ultimately, his imprisonment does not add any value to NK's bargaining position since he is politically worthless. *do people actually do that? I can't tell if you guys are serious or if it's a joke
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Jan 23, 2016 20:41
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e:  misread
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Jan 23, 2016 20:46
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The phrase "victim blaming" has really lost all meaning.
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Jan 23, 2016 21:02
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old dog child posted:*do people actually do that? I can't tell if you guys are serious or if it's a joke I dunno, maybe you should read one of the many articles about people who do just that before dismissing it all in a long and almost uniformly uninformed post. And equating accidental wedding bombings to very much intentional starving of one's own people is ridiculous. Its the type of things that people laugh at leftists for and make pretend ones say in right wing parody articles. That is you, the rightwinger's joke personality. You're the anti-Kelly.
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Jan 23, 2016 21:11
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old dog child posted:Anyway, there's value in visiting a place like North Korea, in the same way interviewing an evil person isn't a hosed up thing to do. Nobody knows why that guy went to NK. If he was detained, then he probably wasn't there to brag about it to his friends*. It's just hosed up to place the blame on the victim when no one knows motive. 21 y/o frat boy business major who isn't of Korean descent (who allegedly got drunk while he was there); odds are pretty significant he went there as a vanity thing. Yes people do that, it's basically The Reason most westerners go to North Korea, even if they tell everyone it's because they want to "see life from the other side" or whatever. Why does him being detained make it sound like he wasn't there to brag to people? And even if you really do have a legitimate reason to go there, given the country's reputation you kind of only have yourself to blame if something bad happens. quote:Also, more westerners should visit NK while being subversive because any cultural contamination is a good thing. Hell, anything he does to undermine the regime while there (if he is guilty) helps the US in the end. Ultimately, his imprisonment does not add any value to NK's bargaining position since he is politically worthless. Being subversive while you're there can have genuine repercussions for your tour guides, that's not a good thing to encourage at all. on the other hand re: cultural contamination and visiting the place in general, just a few days ago Ask a North Korean covered that from one defector's point of view, according to them there's some merit to it. Koramei fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Jan 23, 2016 |
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Jan 23, 2016 21:12
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And you "being subversive" isn't going to fool anyone anyway. Who are you going to impact, your guides? The people who are already trusted to not only interact with you but with all sorts of wealthy near-locals (Korean ex-patriates, Chinese people, SE Asians, etc) who quite clearly have it better off than themselves? Those aren't random college students working a summer job, they are intelligence officials who are reporting on you.
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Jan 23, 2016 21:16
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old dog child posted:Anyway, there's value in visiting a place like North Korea, in the same way interviewing an evil person isn't a hosed up thing to do. Oh sure, except in this case the villain is still on the run, you haven't told anybody where he is, you asked questions like "What do you eat for breakfast?" and "How do you keep your deserter-skin jackets so silky-smooth?" and at the beginning of the interview you passed him over a briefcase filled with non-sequential bills. And then, once the whole thing was over, the only time you'd ever talk about the thing is with uninterested strangers at office parties. And your original motivation to do the drat thing to begin with was only to impress that girl in Accounts Receivable. Yes, it is hosed up. And gently caress the people who go there on non-business or non-diplomatic purposes to the highest degree. old dog child posted:You're supporting a government that bombs weddings and detains people without trial. Gee willikers Batman, I guess I'd better go nowhere for a vacation, seeing as that [sovereign authority] has done [bad thing].
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Jan 23, 2016 21:17
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Cliff Racer posted:I dunno, maybe you should read one of the many articles about people who do just that before dismissing it all in a long and almost uniformly uninformed post. I will look into it. I usually just read about the military/political poo poo and have seen the Vice stuff. I just think the "you're supporting the regime" logic is dumb but I see your point. Koramei posted:21 y/o frat boy business major who isn't of Korean descent (who allegedly got drunk while he was there); odds are pretty significant he went there as a vanity thing. Yes people do that, it's basically The Reason most westerners go to North Korea, even if they tell everyone it's because they want to "see life from the other side" or whatever. Why does him being detained make it sound like he wasn't there to brag to people? And even if you really do have a legitimate reason to go there, given the country's reputation you kind of only have yourself to blame if something bad happens. I suppose that's true but maybe he was detained for trying to film poo poo or got into a debate or something. Who knows? I just don't want to assume the worst just because he's some white frat boy. quote:Being subversive while you're there can have genuine repercussions for your tour guides, that's not a good thing to encourage at all. Well, I don't mean shouting the merits of capitalism at everyone you see but even something as small as a conversation might eventually help change minds. I don't think NK will ever change unless it happens from within (hopefully peacefully). e: basically what that article says TROIKA CURES GREEK posted:The phrase "victim blaming" has really lost all meaning. Victim was definitely the wrong word. 3 DONG HORSE fucked around with this message at 21:24 on Jan 23, 2016 |
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Jan 23, 2016 21:20
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old dog child posted:Well, I don't mean shouting the merits of capitalism at everyone you see but even something as small as a conversation might eventually help change minds. Yeah this is true. A lot of accounts from people that have visited the place say that the locals are often super interested in talking to foreigners, they just usually don't get the chance. The problem is that what "being subversive" is, both for the repercussions for the people that talked to you, as well as yourself- is up for North Korea to decide, not you. Cliff Racer posted:And you "being subversive" isn't going to fool anyone anyway. Who are you going to impact, your guides? The people who are already trusted to not only interact with you but with all sorts of wealthy near-locals (Korean ex-patriates, Chinese people, SE Asians, etc) who quite clearly have it better off than themselves? Those aren't random college students working a summer job, they are intelligence officials who are reporting on you. tangential to your point, but South Korean citizens can't (legally) go to North Korea on those kinds of trips. The guides are officials but you deal with student volunteers, tour schools etc too. But yeah since the guides know their necks are (often quite literaly) on the line they're meant to be pretty good at stonewalling any questions like that and shepherding tourists away from locals.
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Jan 23, 2016 21:42
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old dog child posted:
Um gently caress yes they do https://web.archive.org/web/20141014190259/http://americaninnorthkorea.com/2011/12/03/north-korea-shooting-range-guns-girls-and-beer/ old dog child posted:I will look into it. I usually just read about the military/political poo poo and have seen the Vice stuff. I just think the "you're supporting the regime" logic is dumb but I see your point. Getting abducted in NK and being used in concessions for the regime is a non-zero chance, how are you not supporting them? You get sent to camps for ridiculous poo poo where you work until you die. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisons_in_North_Korea
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Jan 24, 2016 00:03
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Koramei posted:tangential to your point, but South Korean citizens can't (legally) go to North Korea on those kinds of trips. I was actually referring to North Korean citizens living in Japan, who, despite technically being North Koreans, get the same tourist spots that "we" do.
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Jan 24, 2016 00:28
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North Korea is now floating poop into South Korea. edit: SA is being a weirdo - putting "http://" in front fixed it. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/northkorea/12135252/North-Korea-bombards-South-with-used-toilet-paper.html Bates fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Feb 3, 2016 |
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Feb 3, 2016 06:17
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Anosmoman posted:North Korea is now floating poop into South Korea. I read the caption for Kim visiting the North Korean People's Army Breeding Station No. 621 before I looked at the entire picture and something entirely more horrifying flashed into my head.
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Feb 3, 2016 07:32
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Anosmoman posted:North Korea is now floating poop into South Korea. I don't know why but your link tells me "my connection isn't secure" when I click on it.
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Feb 3, 2016 07:46
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Same.
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Feb 3, 2016 07:47
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Anosmoman posted:North Korea is now floating poop into South Korea. Kim: "We need to send our propaganda into the South so that they will recognize that we are the best Korea." Communist Goon: "We could use balloons, they will float south and distribute our leaflets over a wide area!" Kim: "Brilliant idea! Anyone else?" Communist "Goon 2: What if we wrap our words in poop?" Kim: "Yes! Double rations for your family!"
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Feb 3, 2016 08:20
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So North Korea may launch it's *Secret Nuclear Missile Test* as early as tomorrow. What are the chances that NK wants to start a war with this missile? Can we strike it down?
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Feb 6, 2016 17:00
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Grouchio posted:So North Korea may launch it's *Secret Nuclear Missile Test* as early as tomorrow. What are the chances that NK wants to start a war with this missile? Can we strike it down? 0 and nope. Calm down for once.
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Feb 6, 2016 17:43
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What would KJU possibly stand to gain by starting a war? Also, didn't Japan say they would shoot down any missile over their airspace? Are they bluffing?
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Feb 6, 2016 17:59
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Juffo-Wup posted:What would KJU possibly stand to gain by starting a war? Probably, its never been done before-- by anyone.
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Feb 6, 2016 20:20
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Grouchio posted:So North Korea may launch it's *Secret Nuclear Missile Test* as early as tomorrow. What are the chances that NK wants to start a war with this missile? Can we strike it down? If they release a photo of this "missile" it'll be a Scud with some sad extra fins welded onto it.
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Feb 6, 2016 20:28
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Grouchio posted:So North Korea may launch it's *Secret Nuclear Missile Test* as early as tomorrow. What are the chances that NK wants to start a war with this missile? Can we strike it down? North Korea's entire foreign policy is based on hoping that world leaders are as dumb and panicky as you are, and trying to manipulate them. Now stop asking.
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Feb 6, 2016 21:25
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