team overhead smash posted:13 year old refugee girl shot dead trying to stab an Israeli security guard That 13-year-old girl was a terrorist, and considering her death "regrettable" or a "tragedy" or even "sad" is just plain antisemitic. Quite simply, if the Palestinian people simply committed themselves to pacifism, simply such that no Palestinian ever raised their simple hand to an Israeli, everything would simply work itself out, just as simply as with the Prague Spring.
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Jan 24, 2016 02:07
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Effectronica posted:That 13-year-old girl was a terrorist, and considering her death "regrettable" or a "tragedy" or even "sad" is just plain antisemitic. Quite simply, if the Palestinian people simply committed themselves to pacifism, simply such that no Palestinian ever raised their simple hand to an Israeli, everything would simply work itself out, just as simply as with the Prague Spring. An armed guard of an occupying force at an illegal settlement in the West Bank is a legitimate military target. What's terrorist about her actions? If we're calling people terrorists, isn't the guard the terrorist for carrying out war crimes? gently caress, when a 13 year old girl manages to follow the law of war better than 'the most moral army in the world', you know the IDF are pretty twisted. Also why the hypocrisy? Why don't the Israelis have to commit themselves to pacifism - or hell, why don't they have to commit themselves to a much lower standard of keeping themselves secure through overwhelming force and violence but doing so while not occupying another country and committing war crimes? It seems the only anti-Semite here.......is you!
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Jan 24, 2016 10:05
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In 
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Jan 24, 2016 11:05
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team overhead smash posted:An armed guard of an occupying force at an illegal settlement in the West Bank is a legitimate military target. What's terrorist about her actions? If we're calling people terrorists, isn't the guard the terrorist for carrying out war crimes? gently caress, when a 13 year old girl manages to follow the law of war better than 'the most moral army in the world', you know the IDF are pretty twisted. Effectronica doesn't actually believe that, he's just facetiously representing the implicit views of a bunch of the shittier pro-Israel posters (and the explicit views of at least a couple).
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Jan 24, 2016 12:04
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team overhead smash posted:13 year old refugee girl shot dead trying to stab an Israeli security guard Some reports claim that, rather than "doing something about it", whatever that means, it's simply "suicide by IDF". After all, why bother working up the nerve to shoot yourself (and run the risk of surviving) when you can let a knife fall out of your pocket in front of a security guard, who will then proceed to make drat sure you die? Normally I wouldn't necessarily take the "Judea and Samaria police" at their word, but it's an interesting take on this. http://www.jewishpress.com/news/suicide-by-idf-knife-wielding-13-year-old-girl-chased-after-security-guard/2016/01/23/ quote:On Saturday it became apparent that Arab teenagers, especially females, escaping a family brawl, try to get arrested or killed by attacking Israeli security forces at a check post. According to Judea and Samaria police, the phenomenon used to be limited to young women trying to get arrested by hiding a knife on their person when crossing the check post; now they’ve begun to try to use the knife, presumably looking to get killed.
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Jan 24, 2016 13:28
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That actually makes it worse, especially if the cops are aware of this phenomenon and continue to gun down people
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Jan 24, 2016 16:28
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http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1185616/ Good movie about the 1982 invasion of Lebanon and the Sabra-Shatilla massacre.
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Jan 25, 2016 02:08
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rscott posted:That actually makes it worse, especially if the cops are aware of this phenomenon and continue to gun down people I volunteer you to provide mental health services to suicide bombers armed with their bomb.
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Jan 25, 2016 02:34
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Baloogan posted:I volunteer you to provide mental health services to suicide bombers armed with their bomb. Those crafty depressed children with their suicide-knife-bombs.
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Jan 25, 2016 03:07
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Yardbomb posted:Those crafty depressed children with their suicide-knife-bombs. If only those jack-booted IDF soldiers could learn from the inspiring example of this woman. team overhead smash posted:13 year old refugee girl shot dead trying to stab an Israeli security guard I agree but I'm not quite sure where you're coming from where you seem to imply that her "accomplishing nothing" is part of the reason for that heartbreak. The Insect Court fucked around with this message at 09:52 on Jan 25, 2016 |
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Jan 25, 2016 09:18
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icantfindaname posted:Because he's unable to process the idea of equality before the law and universal human rights, or of racial and ethnic groups not being in a hierarchy of superiority to each other Non-citizens do not have equality before the law with citizens in any nation that I know of. Anyone who supports groups like Hamas could, obviously, not become an Israeli citizen under any rational policy.
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Jan 25, 2016 09:33
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Yardbomb posted:Those crafty depressed children with their suicide-knife-bombs. Yeah, you are right, that region of the world has never used suicide bombs ever. You wear political correctness like a suicide vest.
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Jan 25, 2016 12:43
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The Insect Court posted:I agree but I'm not quite sure where you're coming from where you seem to imply that her "accomplishing nothing" is part of the reason for that heartbreak. Her death accomplished nothing, no greater cause was served and it was completely futile. Israel is no closer to ending its occupation and her family is no closer to getting out of a refugee camp.
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Jan 25, 2016 13:00
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team overhead smash posted:Her death accomplished nothing, no greater cause was served and it was completely futile. Israel is no closer to ending its occupation and her family is no closer to getting out of a refugee camp.
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Jan 25, 2016 13:11
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hmm armed security guards are less legitimate targets than actual soldiers, but they are still armed agents of enemy occupation so...
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Jan 25, 2016 13:57
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Baloogan posted:Yeah, you are right, that region of the world has never used suicide bombs ever. So should we just assume everyone of a 'different' ethnicity's wearing a bomb then? I mean that sounds like something that'd be in the IDF playbook, but if they know this phenomena is happening, then it'd be pretty good if they could try and find a Plan A that's not shooting down depressed young people brandishing a knife. Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Jan 25, 2016 |
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Jan 25, 2016 14:38
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Xander77 posted:If only she actually managed to stab that Zionist occupier. What a shame. Because that's the only possible contribution those inherently evil Palestinians could possibly give towards ending the occupation, right?
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Jan 25, 2016 15:26
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Baloogan posted:You wear treating people with respect like a suicide vest. Best browser add-on I ever installed since AdBlock.
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Jan 25, 2016 15:28
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If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.
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Jan 25, 2016 15:34
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team overhead smash posted:Because that's the only possible contribution those inherently evil Palestinians could possibly give towards ending the occupation, right? Well, Israel has done it's best to remove all other options for the last few decades.
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Jan 25, 2016 15:58
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Baloogan posted:If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. What about the right to not be born into a prison camp? The right to not suffer collective punishment? The right to not be discriminated against for your ethnicity? Am I to assume you believe the right to gun down children wielding knives is really greater than any other liberty you can imagine? E: Okay, fair's fair. The right to tell people that gunning down children wielding knives is an acceptable precaution. Zulily Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Jan 25, 2016 |
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Jan 25, 2016 16:21
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Freedom means the right to tell Palestinians that they and their descendants will forever be non-persons condemned to live in squalor as everything of worth that they possess will be taken from them forcibly, neener-neener, serves you right for being towelheads instead of God's Chosen People.
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Jan 25, 2016 16:34
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Who What Now posted:Best browser add-on I ever installed since AdBlock. It isn't showing up for me?
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Jan 25, 2016 17:00
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Maoist Pussy posted:It isn't showing up for me? https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/pc2respect/mgkjmkalaomdhdldmfbgpjdpmpdnhiio?hl=en
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Jan 25, 2016 17:30
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Kajeesus posted:What about the right to not be born into a prison camp? The right to not suffer collective punishment? The right to not be discriminated against for your ethnicity? Am I to assume you believe the right to gun down children wielding knives is really greater than any other liberty you can imagine? How does this not illustrate to you that the liberal narrative of individualist rights is of extremely limited application?
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Jan 25, 2016 17:34
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I'm kind of mixed about this knife thing. How far away was she when she was shot and did the guards have the feasible option of temporarily avoiding her (since I would imagine adult soldiers could outrun a 13-year-old girl) until people properly equipped to deal with such a thing (like tazers or something, I don't know) could arrive? Because it isn't really a good idea for anyone to try to physically stop someone with a knife, even if that person is a child and you're an adult wearing body armor who is skilled in martial arts or something. You can still easily get cut/stabbed in a bad place and end up bleeding out. So if the soldiers didn't really have any place they could temporarily escape to* while waiting for someone with, at the very least, a less lethal weapon, I can understand why they fired. *I know that many people would react to this like "WHY SHOULD THE SOLDIERS RUN FROM THE CRIMINAL THAT IS DUMB", but when it's the difference between a human being living or dying (especially if it's a child), it seems like being the "coward" is the better choice. edit: I'm also sort of anticipating some argument along the lines of "well if soldiers started avoiding kids with knives, Palestinians would start charging checkpoints en masse with knives!", but that is dumb because "a bunch of people charging with knives" is a completely different situation than "one person charging with a knife" and could be treated differently as a result (and is also extremely unlikely to happen in the first place). Baloogan posted:If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. lol, someone disagreeing with you or even insulting what you say does not mean they are denying you the right to say things. No one is petitioning for your previous posts in this thread to be removed from the forums*; they're just saying that you're saying stupid thing. I've never understood how right-wing and libertarian types manage to have such a bizarre interpretation of the first amendment. *even this wouldn't violate the first amendment since SA moderators aren't the government Ytlaya fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Jan 25, 2016 |
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Jan 25, 2016 18:01
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Ytlaya posted:
And refusing to serve lunch to minority diners at the Woolworth's lunch counter didn't violate the 14th Amendment, at first.
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Jan 25, 2016 18:22
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Ytlaya posted:I'm kind of mixed about this knife thing. How far away was she when she was shot and did the guards have the feasible option of temporarily avoiding her (since I would imagine adult soldiers could outrun a 13-year-old girl) until people properly equipped to deal with such a thing (like tazers or something, I don't know) could arrive? Aren't those IDF guys all supposed to know Krav Maga anyways?
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Jan 25, 2016 18:27
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Plus, a good chunk of police forces (which the IDF are functionally doubling as) are trained to take down knife-wielding criminals non-lethally. They're called 'stab vests' for a reason.
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Jan 25, 2016 18:33
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Is the IDF going to kill her family? Or just burn down the whole refugee camp? EDIT: Golan Heights are starting to look peaceful again, probs time to wreck-tify that. 
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Jan 25, 2016 18:37
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Well in this case, it was a civilian security guard (who was standing guard at the entrance to a settlement), who was apparently chased by this girl and ran away for a while before turning around and shooting. So it doesn't exactly seem to be brutality. It does, however, illustrate a larger shift - while the previous waves of violence happened in East Jerusalem, this and other recent attacks happened in the West Bank.
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Jan 25, 2016 19:46
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From the Davos conference: There's no way he's not doing this on purpose at this point
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Jan 26, 2016 17:20
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I think Netanyahu is bonkers, but we don't have to stoop to using his quotes out of context to prove that point.quote:Zakaria: How do you defeat the idea? How do you...? If you, if a Muslim leader were to come to you and say, look, 95% of my society is moderate, mainstream, non-violent, but I do have these pockets of extremism. What do you think is the answer to purging these Muslim societies of this, of extremism, even if it affects only a small minority? http://mfa.gov.il/MFA/PressRoom/2016/Pages/PM-Netanyahu-at-the-WEF-event-hosted-by-Fareed-Zakaria-21-Jan-2016.aspx
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Jan 26, 2016 17:24
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Reik posted:I think Netanyahu is bonkers, but we don't have to stoop to using his quotes out of context to prove that point. That... doesn't really paint him any better though? He has some good points about how you can't remove one side of a stick, but then he immediately nose-dives into "Muslims are inherently dangerous and violent".
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Jan 26, 2016 17:33
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Wales Grey posted:That... doesn't really paint him any better though? He has some good points about how you can't remove one side of a stick, but then he immediately nose-dives into "Muslims are inherently dangerous and violent". I just think he's saying extremism is dangerous and violent, which is hilarious in my opinion as I believe he's rather extreme himself.
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Jan 26, 2016 17:48
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He was asked 'how should muslim leaders purge their societies of the minority of extremists' and he responds to that question. The subject of his response is 'muslim extremists' not 'muslims'.
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Jan 26, 2016 17:49
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The misrepresented quote paints him as a comic book villain, while the proper context just makes him look like an idiot. He's said and done a lot of heinous poo poo, but piling half-truths and dodgy quotations on top just muddies the message.
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Jan 26, 2016 17:51
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I didn't even realize it was out of context because it was from a list of inspiring and thought-provoking quotes from Davos (though to be fair a great many of them were just as stupid).
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Jan 26, 2016 18:12
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His response is all the more interesting when you consider the extremist elements within Israeli society itself. Considering government policy toward them, it's hard to say that modernity is defeating extremist haredi or that militant Zionists are being deprived of hope.
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Jan 26, 2016 18:13
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Yeah, context transforms Bibi from a comic supervillain to an hypocritical moron.
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Jan 26, 2016 18:21
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