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A Doomed Purloiner posted:When I first watched Evangelion I hadn't really seen much other anime, so the idea of that alternative universe being some parody of cliches went right over my head. That's the interesting bit. Ever anime/VN/manga I've ever seen with those cliches has been released well post-Eva, as well as every work I've seen parodying the same things. So, while from seeing TWGOK/Kanon/Da Capo/Nyaruko/a whole lot of other stuff, I intellectually understand that the bread-in-the-mouth-run type deal was an annoying overused plot device that could more easily have been handled with a title card saying "Romcom Opening" followed by focus on the more "important" aspects of the show, it doesn't really "hit" me the way it might someone who was inundated with the stuff.
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 03:27 |
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# ? Jun 10, 2024 02:24 |
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I'm always amused by people who think EoE is the 'better' ending when all it does is sort of explain the mechanics of Instrumentality and everything else is pretty much the same as the TV series. I mean I prefer it because it has some absolutely gorgeous sequences, but the only fundamental difference is Shinji rejecting rather than embracing Instrumentality.
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 03:28 |
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Asuka has the "anta, baka?" line like three times and I swear it's the exact same inflection each time.
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 03:29 |
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Sakurazuka posted:I'm always amused by people who think EoE is the 'better' ending when all it does is sort explain the mechanics of Instrumentality and everything else is pretty much the same as the TV series. I feel like he rejected it both times
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 03:30 |
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Srice posted:The romantic comedy alternate universe is cracking me up this time around. I was amused by it the last time I saw the show but now I actually laughed. It made me kinda laugh and cry at the exact same time. A nice complicated emotion.
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 03:31 |
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Sakurazuka posted:You have no idea how insanely mad people got at the last two episodes at the time. I think that's what's really cool about the tv series ending It just straight up tells the viewer: none of that matters, here's what the show is really going for. Here's what it's really about.
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 03:31 |
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Droyer posted:I feel like he rejected it both times This is how I feel as well, since EoE is concurrent with EoTV.
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 03:33 |
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The last two episodes of the TV series are happening at the exact time as EOE, which is pretty cool
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 03:34 |
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Rei's va during the high school romcom section is something else.
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 03:37 |
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Droyer posted:I feel like he rejected it both times I might revise my opinion when I watch it again but I always interpreted the Congratulations scene as as him being welcomed into the collective consciousness after working through his demons.
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 03:37 |
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This show is way more like Persona than Devil Survivor 2. I can't believe Games lied to me.
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 03:38 |
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Sakurazuka posted:You have no idea how insanely mad people got at the last two episodes at the time. They don't have to solve the mystery necessarily, but if you give it a name you should at least say what it is, and tell the viewer the rules... Raxivace posted:They directly tell you what it is in Episode 25. But not quite how it works, no? It takes EoE to actually connect to what actually happened, right? It's entirely possible I just missed it though. Sakurazuka posted:I've always figured Anno must be a big fan of The Prisoner, a British TV series from the 60's that's a character study disguised as a mystery and similarly ends on a surreal acid trip that explains virtually nothing. Good catch. I can't find it online but there's a scene in that last episode, Fall Out, where Number 6 is inexplicably elected to lead a group of his faceless captors, who immediately start applauding him. And there are recurring questions about the loss of self, ego, and who a person actually is. It's another bonkers ending but it has such style and panache it works better than Eva 26 here. (BTW, McGoohan admitted later that the finale came out of a lack of time plus writers block. Another parallel!)
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 03:38 |
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And huh, I'm not sure I noticed the violin version of Cruel Angels Thesis before.
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 03:39 |
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Agronox posted:They don't have to solve the mystery necessarily, but if you give it a name you should at least say what it is, and tell the viewer the rules... I don't think watching EoE really helps you understand how it all works any better than the last two episodes do
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 03:46 |
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Agronox posted:But not quite how it works, no? It takes EoE to actually connect to what actually happened, right? They don't give you the exact science or whatever, but they certainly tell you what it is (My apologies for the poor spelling and formatting of this, it was the first script I could find online at the moment). quote:Shinji: What feeling is this? Even with the mangled spelling and translation here, what exactly Instrumentality is is pretty easily understandable. lets hang out posted:I don't think watching EoE really helps you understand how it all works any better than the last two episodes do It does give you slightly more about the mechanics of bringing about Instrumentality. It's not a documentary about fake science or whatever though.
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 03:58 |
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 04:03 |
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lol
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 04:04 |
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 04:04 |
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to everyone. And serious thanks for inspiring me to re-watch this show. It's been quite a while, and i'd become afraid that if i revisited it it wouldn't live up to my memories. Onward to capping it off with EoE tomorrow.
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 04:05 |
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I always found it interesting that Kaworu was never here.
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 04:05 |
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Hey do Gendo and Asuka ever directly interact the entire show? I meant to ask earlier, but it slipped my mind.
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 04:07 |
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Raxivace posted:I always found it interesting that Kaworu was never here. Rei gets to be there because she essentially still had a human soul, albeit a hosed around with one, Kaworu soul was an Angel.
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 04:09 |
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a kitten posted:Hey do Gendo and Asuka ever directly interact the entire show? I meant to ask earlier, but it slipped my mind. I don't think they do actually.
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 04:09 |
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A Doomed Purloiner posted:I've always figured it was just emotional love, rather than anything sexual. worth noting: in the original drafts of the episode 24 script, shinji and kaworu actually kiss, and the other characters react to the relationship more or less like the two of them are dating
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 04:09 |
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As promised, I dove through old Usenet posts for treasure. I'll note that I filtered it by date. Specifically, before End of Evangelion was out. Some of them will be funny to read, others less so but hey it's fun to see how people watching the show via fansubbed VHS tapes reacted all those years ago! quote:I watched Eva Episode 18. I really hate the Episode. Many fans felt quote:Very true. My biggest criticism of NGEVA is the music at portions such as I wanna point out that the following guy owns because he watched the entire show unsubbed without understanding Japanese: quote:Ok, my two bits. A post in response to a topic about Evangelion winning the Animage Grand Prix polls for anime of the year: quote:It should be pointed out that whatever anime was on Japan's airwaves And a reply to the above post quote:Default? It was up against GUNDAM WING, RAYEARTH, MACROSS 7, SLAYERS, Another post from the thread about the poll. quote:Most of the patrons on rec.arts.anime did not live in the Golden Age of anime. quote:Misato's a child, and one too complicated and made-up to be real. It's quote:
Here's the last one, I wasn't able to read the whole thing but I challenge others to step up to the plate quote:Since this has opened up to all comers... Why not?
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 04:10 |
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a kitten posted:Hey do Gendo and Asuka ever directly interact the entire show? I meant to ask earlier, but it slipped my mind. No, in fact I think the only time he acknowledges her existence is in episode 22 during the Angel attack on her.
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 04:10 |
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Sakurazuka posted:No, in fact I think the only time he acknowledges her existence is in episode 22 during the Angel attack on her. yikes Well, that's about what i thought.
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 04:15 |
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Sakurazuka posted:I might revise my opinion when I watch it again but I always interpreted the Congratulations scene as as him being welcomed into the collective consciousness after working through his demons. Listen to the dialogue in 25 and 26, it's all about defining yourself by limits and boundaries, going from nothingness to personhood and how that's hard and finally leading up to "maybe I could learn to love myself! which is where "Congratulations!" comes in. The only argument for it being accepting Instrumentality is if you assume that the meaning of Instrumentality directly reverses between the series ending and EoE. (Indirect EoE spoilers) Instrumentality isn't about working through your demons, it's about abandoning the context where they matter; it's a shortcut dreamed up by tyrants and cowards. EoE is a total rejection of the notion that ego-death = enlightenment, which is a significant part of what makes Evangelion so good. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Jan 24, 2016 |
# ? Jan 24, 2016 04:15 |
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Srice posted:I wanna point out that the following guy owns because he watched the entire show unsubbed without understanding Japanese: yeah that dude gets it more than all the others lol
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 04:30 |
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Sakurazuka posted:You have no idea how insanely mad people got at the last two episodes at the time.
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 04:37 |
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Sakurazuka posted:I'm always amused by people who think EoE is the 'better' ending when all it does is sort of explain the mechanics of Instrumentality and everything else is pretty much the same as the TV series. The problem with 25-26 is that running out of money forced Gainax to tell us the resolution instead of showing us. EoE reaches the same conclusions for the character arcs, but it does so by wrapping up the giant robot story. Evangelion might be character-focused, but they wouldn't have put in giant robots if they weren't effective vehicles for character development.
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 04:43 |
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Microcline posted:The problem with 25-26 is that running out of money forced Gainax to tell us the resolution instead of showing us. EoE reaches the same conclusions for the character arcs, but it does so by wrapping up the giant robot story. Evangelion might be character-focused, but they wouldn't have put in giant robots if they weren't effective vehicles for character development. They didn't run out of money, the early drafts of 25 & 26 were close to what the episodes ended up being, they were always intended to be like that.
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 04:47 |
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If you want an 'ending' the manga has an ending. You will be disappointed if you read that ending.
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 04:50 |
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Zas posted:yeah that dude gets it more than all the others lol I suspect that like a lot of people importing VHS recordings of broadcasts he might have had some episode summaries or something to work with but all the same it's still cool that he enjoyed something so much that he went through a lot of effort to experience it. Sakurazuka posted:They didn't run out of money, the early drafts of 25 & 26 were close to what the episodes ended up being, they were always intended to be like that. I think the fact that 25 and 26 don't have director's cut versions are a testament to that. They could easily have afforded to make changes if they wanted to, but they didn't. ImpAtom posted:If you want an 'ending' the manga has an ending. You will be disappointed if you read that ending. Haha yeah I remember hearing about that ending when it happened. I forget the exact details but I distinctly remember that it sure sounded like a boring, safe way to end it.
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 05:02 |
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Isn't the manga's ending basically just RahXephon's ending?
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 05:05 |
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Sakurazuka posted:They didn't run out of money, the early drafts of 25 & 26 were close to what the episodes ended up being, they were always intended to be like that. Plus other Gainax series have ended in similar fashions.
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 05:08 |
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Srice posted:As promised, I dove through old Usenet posts for treasure. L M A O thx srice
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 05:08 |
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I love those old Usenet posts. Hell, I sometimes like reading through old adtrw threads in the archives for things I didn't keep up with while airing.
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 05:11 |
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Sakurazuka posted:They didn't run out of money, the early drafts of 25 & 26 were close to what the episodes ended up being, they were always intended to be like that. It's neither of these things. They didn't run out of money, but they ran out of time, in a sense; the original drafts of 25 + 26 were basically a shorter but otherwise similar version of EoE, but they sent that to the censor and obviously it didn't fly, so they had to do something else on short notice. e: The flip side of course is that Anno was constantly changing his mind about how to end the show, so in a sense this probably just gave him the perfect opportunity to try one of the other ideas. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Jan 24, 2016 |
# ? Jan 24, 2016 05:25 |
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# ? Jun 10, 2024 02:24 |
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Sakurazuka posted:They didn't run out of money, the early drafts of 25 & 26 were close to what the episodes ended up being, they were always intended to be like that. "Ran out of money" is a hyperbole. Running up against deadlines is probably the cause of most of the corner-cutting. I don't think we're ever going to get a straight answer from Gainax, though, as it's now part of the mystique. Srice posted:I think the fact that 25 and 26 don't have director's cut versions are a testament to that. They could easily have afforded to make changes if they wanted to, but they didn't. How could you change something like 25 and 26? I wouldn't call them "quality works of animation" because a monologue over a filtered photograph isn't "quality" doesn't take "work" and doesn't involve "animation", but I wouldn't deny a new viewer a chance to watch the most infamous anime episodes ever aired. EoE also serves as the "director's cut" of 25 and 26, and the DC version of episode 24's preview is for 25: Air instead of 25: The World Ending.
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# ? Jan 24, 2016 05:44 |